Attempting to Worship an Unfamiliar Deity

[Marina]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:12 AM, katrinka said:

 

"Working with" is a really bizarre term for something like this. A deity isn't the lady over at the next computer, or the guy who drives a forklift and helps you get a pallet off a stack.

 

On 9/27/2021 at 4:10 AM, euripides said:

 

exactly! I see it everywhere. I figure it's some sort of offshoot of the notion of 'working magic', perhaps. It'd be interesting to see how it came about. I suspect many people don't mean it in the way that I "hear" it, but often, it does have that sense about it. 

 

I would say it really depends on the spiritual/religious background of the individual. Not all paths see divine beings as so distant and superior they are unreachable to the common folk. And many practises do involve working with - yes - said Deities. Obviously, the people who do such work are not those who started practising last week for fun... they have a calling of some sort, and they go through a certain preparation in order to better fulfil their mission. They need to know their Deities well, and usually they are dedicated to one specifically or to a very, very small group (none of that "Deity buffet" nonsense we see in the neo-pagan literature, in which you change pantheons weekly - and which I find rather bizarre).

 

I find it curious... the notion that you get to "choose" a Deity to work with or to serve. In my experience, it's usually They who choose you or not. Someone in the thread say working with them would be like "doing business with a hurricane". It makes sense - specially considering that you don't get to choose when a hurricane comes.

 

From what the OP said, they did not open a book and pick a Deity that seemed cool to worship. They felt called. From the spiritual/religious background I come, we would at least heed the calling (not necessarily jump into full worship, but respectfully listen). But I can see that different traditions and worldviews would have different approaches.

Edited October 5, 2021 by marinaoracles
typo

[katrinka]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:03 AM, Raggydoll said:

Omg how did I miss this thread?! 😂 You are all too funny! I do agree with basically everyone who’s chimed in. I think it’s best to not start up anything devotional until you know exactly what/whom you are devoting your self to and what for! And it is delicate when it involves other cultures .

 

Aside from that.,, I don’t see why Americans are so hung up in their fear of the devil. Have they not heard of trolls? Ask any Scandinavian person and they’ll tell you that it’s the trolls you need to be wary about! Funny fact - when Americans say “speak of the devil”, WE say “när man talar om trollen” , aka “speak of the trolls”.

 

Yes, and there's all that tricky fairy lore in other parts of Europe and the UK. A lot of them are said to be Not. Nice.

Beings just outside our perception who mess with us seems to be a universal concept. I'm sure the Native Americans have equivalents, those would be our local version. Plus whatever else may have hitchhiked over with people who settled here.
 

On 9/23/2021 at 6:03 AM, Raggydoll said:

I refuse to believe that trolls aren’t an issue over there as well. I’ve seen much indications of troll-like characters and behaviors from across the great pond, so I think that’s the true enemy to look out for 😁

 

 

Oh, trolls are definitely an issue here.

 

16 minutes ago, marinaoracles said:

I would say it really depends on the spiritual/religious background of the individual. Not all paths see divine beings as so distant and superior they are unreachable to the common folk. And many practises do involve working with - yes - said Deities. Obviously, the people who do such work are not those who started practising last week for fun... they have a calling of some sort, and they go through a certain preparation in order to better fulfil their mission. They need to know their Deities well, and usually they are dedicated to one specifically or to a very, very small group (none of that "Deity buffet" nonsense we see in the neo-pagan literature, in which you change pantheons weekly - and which I find rather bizarre).

Yes...aren't you in Brazil? (Apologies if I've gotten that wrong.)

In the African Diaspora religions, the deities DO choose you. But there are set procedures for confirming that, making offerings, etc. It's not a situation where "very little information is known in how traditional worship of this deity works." These religions are living traditions.

Edited October 5, 2021 by katrinka

[Marina]

4 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Yes...aren't you in Brazil? (Apologies if I've gotten that wrong.)

In the African Diaspora religions, the deities DO choose you. But there are set procedures for confirming that, making offerings, etc. It's not a situation where "very little information is known in how traditional worship of this deity works." These religions are living traditions.

 

Yes, I am! And you are right, many of the Yoruba rooted and syncretic Afro-Brazilian religions have this aspect of working closely with a Deity, and it involves confirmation, making offerings, learning from a an older and more experienced practitioner etc... it's not something you just jump into.  And it helps that, if you do feel called but are not a practitioner, you can go to a place of worship and ask the people there to help you figure out if it's really a calling or something else.

 

I agree that being called by a deity that is very difficult to get any information about is something that needs to be handled with more caution! 

[DarkMoge]

6 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I don’t quite agree. I am selective with whom I accept/channel messages from, for sure. And I do not worship anything unfamiliar simply because I think it might have called on me.

I do not disagree with you, one does not have to reply to every message and they can be select what to work with and someone idea of best interest would not match your own wants, but the entire thread seemed to suggest that thread author should just ignore their experience. Their original post brimmed with excitement at the start, but got dulled down after hearing warnings, about possible dangers. At least, that is my perception of things. So, I wrote it the opposite points, about why you might want to.

I believe that jumping at every new contact is not wrong, it is not right either. Its okay to stick with the spirits that are already known to you. It is also okay to go on a journey to experience other energies outside familiar territories.

7 hours ago, gregory said:

Fear can be extremely useful in life. It can be used very positively.

My treatment of fear is entirely personal, please do not take it as preaching as a proper behavior ^w^. Just sharing.

[Raggydoll]

26 minutes ago, DarkMoge said:

I do not disagree with you, one does not have to reply to every message and they can be select what to work with and someone idea of best interest would not match your own wants, but the entire thread seemed to suggest that thread author should just ignore their experience. Their original post brimmed with excitement at the start, but got dulled down after hearing warnings, about possible dangers. At least, that is my perception of things. So, I wrote it the opposite points, about why you might want to.

I see what you mean. I agree that a balanced approach is best.

26 minutes ago, DarkMoge said:

I believe that jumping at every new contact is not wrong, it is not right either. Its okay to stick with the spirits that are already known to you. It is also okay to go on a journey to experience other energies outside familiar territories.

 

Yes, I agree. 

[katrinka]

10 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

I do not disagree with you, one does not have to reply to every message and they can be select what to work with and someone idea of best interest would not match your own wants, but the entire thread seemed to suggest that thread author should just ignore their experience. Their original post brimmed with excitement at the start, but got dulled down after hearing warnings, about possible dangers. At least, that is my perception of things. So, I wrote it the opposite points, about why you might want to.

 

The original post also stated this:

"The only thing is that I am not only less acquainted with the culture this deity comes from (Welsh instead of my usual Greco-Roman) but also very little information is known in how traditional worship of this deity works. Things like offerings, sacred sybols, colours, herbs, words, animals connections, etc, are all things I usually research into extensively and incorporate into my practice. I was just wondering if this obstacle has been one anyone else has had to face, and also general experiences of deity or entity worship as of late?"

And the takeaway from the replies was that if you know little or nothing about this deity, then no. Attempting to incorporate it into ones' practice would be disrespectful at best.

Some possible dangers were also mentioned, which you attempted to frame as fear issues.
 

10 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

I believe that jumping at every new contact is not wrong, it is not right either. Its okay to stick with the spirits that are already known to you. It is also okay to go on a journey to experience other energies outside familiar territories.

My treatment of fear is entirely personal, please do not take it as preaching as a proper behavior ^w^. Just sharing.

Well, then.
Perchance that should have been made clear instead of saying things like "There is difference between respect and self loathing. Are you that horrible that even your attempts to show honour would be seen as an insult?"

***REDACTED AS PER MODS***

Edited October 6, 2021 by katrinka

[Raggydoll]

@katrinka I understand that you find those statements contradictory, but will you please edit out the last bit in your comment. Its important that everyone remain respectful, even when they disagree. We don’t want to see this topic derail or get personal. 

[katrinka]

Done.

[zedekiel]

I am very late to responding as this last month has been completely consumed by work and very little internet time, but I wanted to thank you all for the continued discussion. Honestly, each one of your opinions greatly helped me by looking at things from all sorts of perspectives I didn't have access too when I first posted.

 

On 10/5/2021 at 10:42 AM, marinaoracles said:

I would say it really depends on the spiritual/religious background of the individual. Not all paths see divine beings as so distant and superior they are unreachable to the common folk. And many practises do involve working with - yes - said Deities. Obviously, the people who do such work are not those who started practising last week for fun... they have a calling of some sort, and they go through a certain preparation in order to better fulfil their mission. They need to know their Deities well, and usually they are dedicated to one specifically or to a very, very small group (none of that "Deity buffet" nonsense we see in the neo-pagan literature, in which you change pantheons weekly - and which I find rather bizarre).

 

I find it curious... the notion that you get to "choose" a Deity to work with or to serve. In my experience, it's usually They who choose you or not. Someone in the thread say working with them would be like "doing business with a hurricane". It makes sense - specially considering that you don't get to choose when a hurricane comes.

 

From what the OP said, they did not open a book and pick a Deity that seemed cool to worship. They felt called. From the spiritual/religious background I come, we would at least heed the calling (not necessarily jump into full worship, but respectfully listen). But I can see that different traditions and worldviews would have different approaches.

 

To clear some things up, this is very much where I am coming from historically. When it comes to my relationship with divine beings, I see us as kinds of equals working together. In that way, I am working with a hurricane yes but I myself am in the hurricane always as well and so I see my options as either reject and ignore what is already there or accept and work with it. In the 5 years I've been working with the one main deity I commune with, and before that for about 15 years of work, it has been a collaborative calling. I did not initially "choose" said deity in that I consciously decided to start working with, I was unconsciously and subconsciously called to and spent time getting to know before committing to continuous practice. So for me, when I am reached out very strongly by something, especially in connection to the main energies I work with already, I take note. @marinaoracles has said it better than I could of, so I am very thankful for that ^v^

 

That being said, I want to underline that the initial comments of caution and speculation were incredibly helpful, as well as the later more explorative and curious methods brought up. I like to make informed concrete decisions, especially with this practice and everyone's thoughts really had me being able to see a bigger picture than I could before, while also not prescribing to you all as law or anything, which I think was the sentiment @DarkMoge was going for. I respect you all deeply and within that must respect myself, so taking in the feedback and alchemizing it with my own experiences and thoughts and feelings is not only a paramount method in learning for me, but also an honour and a great joy that I get to experience on this forum. I, unfortunately, am plagued by a social inferiority complex and often have a hard time giving back as many thoughts as I am given, for fear that if I do I will say too much, be irrelevant, uninteresting,  or seem self-involved. It is an immature complex and one I am working on because I would like to be able to share knowledge and experiences mutually, and also so that the group does not become confused with my intentions or emotions.

I think an aspect of this original conversation I wanted to discuss here that I could not find the awareness, words, or courage to speak on originally, was the idea of self-created methods of ritual. That is to say, when one is using objects, symbols, scents, iconography, etc, one usually has a basis for what energies the herbs, stones, bones, etc they are using are tied to. When worshiping deities, it is common to set forth these things tied to the energies of said deity, or in some cases, specifics items we know their archetype has connection too (Owl imagery for Athena, for example). But when one is worshiping a deity that one does not have access to knowing said specific iconography, and so only may know general things such as, gold for a deity connected to sun energy (for example) what methods could one employ for narrowing down specific totems or symbols, or what that experience can be like. Perhaps this strays too far from the original sentiment of the thread and so maybe one day I will look around for another discussion on it here, or post one myself if I find a lack.

 

That all being said, as I am fairly late to responding back after everything, I would understand wholeheartedly if this thread is D.E.A.D so please do not feel required to respond if you're over the topic. I got so much important input already that I feel a bit spoiled :^)

[euripides]

On 11/4/2021 at 7:02 AM, zedekiel said:

To clear some things up, this is very much where I am coming from historically. When it comes to my relationship with divine beings, I see us as kinds of equals working together. In that way, I am working with a hurricane yes but I myself am in the hurricane ....  

 

 I would understand wholeheartedly if this thread is D.E.A.D so please do not feel required to respond if you're over the topic. I got so much important input already that I feel a bit spoiled :^)

 

That's a really useful perspective - and thanks for pointing back to marinaoracle's comment on this, as I'd somewhat glossed over it, and it's a really useful perspective. [edit: gosh my brain must be tired. I'm repeating myself]

 

Thanks for starting such an interesting conversation. I learned a lot!  It's so easy to get stuck in our own ways of looking at things, and I find that very often I might start out disagreeing with a perspective (as I did on this thread) and find that I get to see many alternative ways of thinking about an issue. 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by euripides

[zedekiel]

7 hours ago, euripides said:

 

That's a really useful perspective - and thanks for pointing back to marinaoracle's comment on this, as I'd somewhat glossed over it, and it's a really useful perspective.

 

Thanks for starting such an interesting conversation. I learned a lot!  It's so easy to get stuck in our own ways of looking at things, and I find that very often I might start out disagreeing with a perspective (as I did on this thread) and find that I get to see many alternative ways of thinking about an issue. 

 

 

For me it is the greatest gift I get to have on this forum - hearing and understanding new perspectives, and growing and changing mine!