How do you feel about The Emperor and The Hierophant?

[Guest]

Hello everyone, this might sound completely weird, but both The Emperor and The Hierophant feel completely off to me to the point where I just remove them from the deck. They are following me, but it seems like I just can't never understand their message for me. Also they're actually the only two cards I struggle with when it comes to remembering their meanings.

Edited December 28, 2021 by tarotswithyle
Thank you so much to everyone for your help! I've decided to include those cards in my deck again and I'll be spending more time studying them.

[katrinka]

I don't care for authority figures either, but I would never take those out of the deck. The cards need to reflect life, and they're part of that.
The emperor is social structure and stability. Things having to do with laws. Depending on context, he can be good or bad. Some laws can keep things running smoothly - it's good that there are legal consequences for violent crimes, for instance. Other times things get twisted and the legal system is used to oppress people, or there's factors that cause it not to work right. The Emperor represents "the machine" - is it going to serve humanity, or crush it? He can be societal expectations, too, plans and structure, order and security. The 4 is important here.

When the Hierophant is well-aspected, he's the study of religion rather than blind acceptance. He's not necessarily Catholic, he can stand in for any religious leader. He could be a Lama, he could be a Houngan (or a Mambo, for that matter.) Tarot uses symbolism from Christian Europe to express universal concepts. He can also be a middleman in a nonreligious context. It comes from the idea that people need someone to intercede for them. The card isn't saying that we do, it's just expressing the concept. So if you ask your friend to go talk to someone for you, your friend is taking on a Hierophant role.

When he's badly aspected (reversed, accompanied by bad cards, etc.) he tends to be dogma, doctrine, intolerance or esoteric BS. People using religion to control others, that kind of thing.

They're both useful cards. I would never remove any of the cards from the deck. Just study them.

[fire cat pickles]

If you start removing cards from the deck the system falls apart. As an alternative,  there are decks out there that rename or rework those particular cards. This may be an option for you.

[DanielJUK]

They are both Father figures and don't like to change their mind on things, they think they are right and this can go to various extremes.

 

The Emperor can represent someone's real Father, they want to lead by example. They tend to be an individual, from an Army Leader, to President. They often are in a governing position and are in positions of authority making decisions. Of course they are the masculine partner to the Empress. His positive aspects are that he cares and protects his loved ones. He wants to be a protector. He wants to build a strong foundation, in a family or in a government. He loves structure but is not necessarily traditional like the Hierophant, however he probably does things the way things are always done, just because they are stable and they like rules and routine. Their real strength is directing others and they are a natural leader. The negatives of the Emperor are getting obsessed with controlling things. They reversed version of this card or the negative of the upright is that they can be rigid and controlling. There is a spectrum here obviously from Daddy providing for his family as a director of a company, to a dictator dominating and slamming their fist down.

 

The Hierophant is also know as the Pope and goes with the High Priestess. I have found many people find them a turn off because of the religious link. Pulling the Pope card is quite the turn off! But I am a little fond of him, maybe because I see some of his qualities in myself and it's actually the card which is closest to when I was born in astrology. They are a Father figure who is different the Emperor, they are about representing an institution or team or community, not an individual thing. They are very much about tradition and the way things are always done. There is a spiritual / faith link to them as well, they can be a Priest, Teacher, Counsellor, Head of a University, they are linked to institutions. Sometimes it represents group meetings (like a book club who has done things the same way for 30 years kinda thing). The Hierophant gives guidance and care and protection, they can advise you (rather than lead you with the Emperor). They are great fans of conformity, doing likes like the group does and as tradition says. They are kind and generous. It can also represent religiously sacred things like marriage,

 

The Greeks had Hierophants who they believed had links to the divine, their job was to pass on the teachings. Their role was a trusted spiritual guide and to help us. The negative about this card is if you are unorthodox or want to be a rebel. Don't question tradition structures and dogma! I think counsellors are reflected well by them, their systems are often traditional, their sessions are set out in a structured way that has been learnt over years. I've also had the card come up for a marriage in my readings. A friend of mine is a punk and I did a reading for her year (month by month) some years ago. I said this could be marriage but I wasn't sure because she is a really unorthodox person. In the end she had a really traditional marriage! I was really surprised.

 

They are both useful cards in the readings, even if we have issues about them. Also I used he about the card descriptions but they can represent anyone of any gender.

[Eric13]

If you're trying to learn or memorize tarot its perfectly okay to use a book from time to time!

And taking cards out of a deck because of trouble remembering them to me seems the same as running away from everyday normal problems life throws at us, that should be faced to overcome them. Sort of like what the Emperor did.

[Margo23]

I like all the responses here. I would read or watch on YouTube,  if you havent already, The Fools Journey.  I would keep it simple to start with a few single word meanings as such in the responses above.

 

When i had studied the Hierophant this is what i came up with for keywords:

 

Deck:  Rider Waite Tarot  Majors
Card:  V The Hierophant
Astrological Association:   Tarus
Element:  Earth
 
Keywords:  
Divine Wisdom, Explanation, Teaching, Desire + Knowledge (rose and lily), Inner Guide, Spiritual Master, Education, Belief Systems, Spiritual Father, Teacher, Advisor, Establishments, Organizations, Groups, Religion, Teaching, Structures, Groups

 

I would definitely not remove the cards. I know theres cards I'd rather avoid also. 

 

The Emperor Element is Fire- South

I would try to consider all areas when studing the cards. Such as: Element, planet/Sign, Symbols, Research, and Intuition with keywords which can relate to the Elements. 

Also, i looked at a lot of the symbols in the card and researched them.

 

Hope this helps some.

Luv & Peace 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Margo23
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[Newpath]

The Hierophant has been coming up for me a lot recently when I have done a reading on a specific. Every time it has come up I have predicted that I will learn something regarding the situation. I have ‘learned’ something in a sense as I have found something out within a day or two of this card coming up every time. My take on it is that it is about learning or teaching depending on the situation. For me recently it has foretold me finding something out every time. To the point where I get it now and immediately expect to find something out and think of this card immediately when it happens.

 

I also struggle with The Emperor but see it as a figure of power and try to use that to relate to the reading.

[Grizabella]

I'm coming way late to this conversation, but for me that seems not to be anything new.  Especially not lately. 😉

 

When I was first learning Tarot, the Heirophant really stumped me till I read somewhere (I think the book that goes with the Gilded deck) that the Heirophant is someone who teaches us what spirituality means.  Or what we're supposed to believe about that and religion.   At least, that's the gist of what I gathered from what the book said and that really struck a chord with me.  I was raised in a family with really skewed and fanatical Christian beliefs.  It was a very unhealthy atmosphere that I didn't fully break out of till I was in my middle age.  Then I finally dared to break free and realized that there's a difference between spirituality and religion.  We're all spiritual beings having a human experience but too often, it's the opposite that we're raised to believe.  Often we're raised thinking we're humans trying to achieve a spiritual experience and so we spend our lives striving and striving to achieve what we already possess but mostly failing.  I was taught I was a wretch who would never quite make it and that no matter how hard I tried to raise higher I was always in a red wagon headed to hell with the flames licking at my backside.  Then  I realized that something came before the Bible and before the Tora and further and further back.  I also realized that the religious literature was actually man creating Deity in man's image, rather than appreciating the fact that we're all created in Deity's image.  They were cramming their version of "God" into a man-shaped box----and trying to stuff me in there at His feet.

 

So to get to the point....the book with the Gilded says (or I took it to say) that the Heirophant is the guy who tells us what we're to believe about what spirituality means, what it is, and how we're supposed to behave and not behave to be spiritually acceptable. He may also explain the Universe to us, etc. and tells us who and what God is and how to be acceptable to Him.  That's just what clicked with me and made the Heirophant make sense, It doesn't necessarily mean that's gotta work for everyone but it just did it for me.

 

 

[Eric13]

Ah yes!^^ And there it all is. 

[Chariot]

I relate to this topic.  I'm not crazy about either card, or, rather, neither of them attracts me.  They usually spell some kind of difficulty or obstacle I have to deal with.

The Hierophant is the easier of the two, for me, as I am in no way religious. What the Hierophant usually represents for me is the 'done thing.' The kind of tradition where we are expected to 'do' certain things and believe certain things, because it's always been done that way, because 'everybody' does it that way, because we're told to do it that way by someone with the authority to make or enforce these kinds of rules.  Sometimes going with the flow and accepting these often unspoken traditions can be a good idea—rocking the boat in certain situations is probably NOT a good idea.  But damn. While some people may derive comfort from the 'done thing,' I believe it can become a hidebound attitude that can hold us back.

 

In general, I prefer the Hierophant to be reversed in a reading, which I usually interpret as a (beneficial) challenge to the status quo.  It doesn't meant the status quo is wrong—just that it shouldn't be blindly accepted just because the traditionalists told you to.

The Hierophant, in its good guise, can also mean consulting an expert or institution for advice or help, rather than re-inventing the wheel by yourself.  In that case, the reversed card is probably not to be welcomed.

 

................

The Emperor ...that card bothers me!  And I really don't know why.  I would look to other cards if I want a leader.  The Emperor's persona is usually quite ...detached?  He rules from afar.  He might be a benevolent ruler, or father, but not an approachable one.  I would be inclined to scuttle away, if I were in his presence.  I don't feel any warmth from this character.  I might respect him, but I won't love him.  These are all qualities I can apply in a reading that contains the Emperor, of course, but the card is not one that I welcome.

[SlightlyMagic]

Can see why some may struggle with the Hierophant if taking it too literally from traditional depictions. I've always seen it as the card for interpreting sacred/secret knowledge.  I'm not religious so have no time for priests or popes but fixating on this draws away from the essence of the card, they have their own brand of beliefs and knowledge that may not apply to me so when it appears it usually feels like its a nod to my spiritual path or tarot journey.

[Eric13]

I think when using the RWS deck, looking at the Hierophant takes a lot of understanding from the Golden Dawns point of view about organized religion as well. I think there's more than meets the eye with their version/definition of that particular card, and could be an interesting learning experience. Metaphors are also a big consideration with the Hierophant as well. Its not just written definitions with these cards, its what's in the pictures, where they sit, what they sit between, other figures in the cards, and most importantly, how does it relate to the question. The card is a good study. 

[Genius_Garden_Tarot]

These two cards challenge many. They are cards of authority, tradition, and established systems, so if you're a bit of a rebel or an iconoclast, they may seriously rub you the wrong way. Here's a way to reframe: think of the Hierophant as the Buddha--the wise, enlightened, loving spiritual teacher who felt called to share his wisdom in the service of relieving the suffering of others. I like to think of the Emperor as Arthur of Camelot--the King whose love of his kingdom was so strong that he dedicated his life to ensuring the wellbeing of his people.