Why does LS do things like this?

[katrinka]

There is a LS verson of Grimaud/France Cartes La Sibylle des Salons (Parlour Sibyl). It's smaller, the colors are printed inside the lines (my Grimaud has issues), and it's dirt cheap. Should be a win/win, right? Well, no.

 

You can see the original title in french directly under the image: Chagrin, larmes. Sorrow, tears. And it's obvious from the image that the girl's dog has died.

So why did LS put "Infantilism" in the corners in multiple languages? Grief isn't "infantile." Mature, well adjusted people cry over dead pets. I might end up lopping the borders off.

 

I've heard of them doing things like this with other decks, even some of the cards in the black-bordered versions of the Sibilla della Zingara, which is taken from the Faustino Solesio, an Italian deck. The company, as we know, is located in Italy.

 

Are they just being perverse? Or what?

[joy]

Totally agree with you grieving and crying over a pet is for sure not infantile. Can they be contacted and asked why they do that, as I can not see a reason at all. And how are the other cards, is just this one so off?

[katrinka]

They're not all that bad. Some of them are OK. Some have minor issues, like the singular "trap" that should be "traps." But there's some doozies, too: they have "fright" for Mort. It's a grim reaper image. It's death, dead, gone, over.

 

As much as LS likes multiple languages, they always manage to make a mess.
 

[Rose Lalonde]

Yikes. Definite candidate for that border trimming you mentioned.

[vulprix]

Border trimming is almost always fun and this one is a necessity 🥳

 

(I have to put a caveat in here that I am SO GLAD to have some of the older, bordered Lo Scarabeo decks--especially the Tarot of the Pagan Cats, which has those cute yellow pawprint borders!)

Edited January 27, 2022 by vulprix

[frankie]

I have that version of the deck and know what you mean. It makes no sense. I actually got the boxed version that comes with a thin, 60-page booklet in Italian, which I find helpful, and they repeat the same mistake even though the booklet description doesn't match the keyword 😭 Make that make sense. It just comes across as lazy.

 

That said, I like the card size and the inexpensive price, and as you mentioned too, I find the line work to be crisper than an older Grimaud version I have, but never use. I actually have no problem completely ignoring the borders and focusing on the original French labels only ("Chagrin, larmes"). I refuse to see the nonsense, I guess.

 

In the age of translating apps and online dictionaries at the tips of our fingers, Lo Scarabeo is better off leaving its thoughtless translations in the past and getting rid of those multiple-language borders for good. Especially with this deck, where the labels are included in the original images. I don't mind looking up words and find it helps with understanding card meanings.

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

Yikes. Definite candidate for that border trimming you mentioned.

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, vulprix said:

Border trimming is almost always fun and this one is a necessity 

 

Maybe I need to invest in a good paper cutter. Doing it with scissors is tedious. But I used to use one of these at a job sometimes. I kind of liked it. 😁

 

42 minutes ago, frankie said:

I have that version of the deck and know what you mean. It makes no sense. I actually got the boxed version that comes with a thin, 60-page booklet in Italian, which I find helpful, and they repeat the same mistake even though the booklet description doesn't match the keyword 😭 Make that make sense. It just comes across as lazy.

 

Their LWBs are horrendous. Every. Single. One. I've. Seen.
I got a "condensed" version with mine. Just five or so pages each of english, french, spanish, italian and german blather about the deck, with no information on the individual cards. I'm happy to have less. I wish they wouldn't include a LWB at all, it's just something to throw out. Save the trees.

 

42 minutes ago, frankie said:

That said, I like the card size and the inexpensive price, and as you mentioned too, I find the line work to be crisper than an older Grimaud version I have, but never use. I actually have no problem completely ignoring the borders and focusing on the original French labels only ("Chagrin, larmes"). I refuse to see the nonsense, I guess.

 

I can ignore them and just read the cards, but I know they're there. They bug me. If I don't get rid of them, I'll end up stowing the deck and forgetting about it.

 

42 minutes ago, frankie said:

In the age of translating apps and online dictionaries at the tips of our fingers, Lo Scarabeo is better off leaving its thoughtless translations in the past and getting rid of those multiple-language borders for good. Especially with this deck, where the labels are included in the original images. I don't mind looking up words and find it helps with understanding card meanings.

 

Exactly. That's part of deck study, translating what needs to be translated. If a person isn't willing to study and practice, they should probably stick with Doreen Virtue. 🙄
 

I don't even speak french, really, though I do know the deck from the Grimaud version, and I'm seeing a lot of issues.

 

Google translate gives me "spite" for "Depit", but the Sibylle des Salons has "disappointment." (Some editions include english keywords on the upper part of the card.) The LS says "anger", which is probably way off base. @Decan, what do you think?

The most egregious errors seem to be the bad cards. Méchante femme should be "mean woman" or "nasty woman, not "angry woman." The Grimaud has "Wicked woman." The image shows a screaming woman and overturned chairs. Pathological anger issues, not normal anger.

 

And they have "weakness" for "Maladie". But it should be "illness."

So maybe they're trying to sugarcoat those? But it doesn't make sense. The images are there in plain sight: the girl crying over the dead dog, the reaper, the woman pitching a tantrum. Do they honestly believe people don't look at their cards?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by katrinka

[Decan]

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

Google translate gives me "spite" for "Depit", but the Sibylle des Salons has "disappointment." (Some editions include english keywords on the upper part of the card.) The LS says "anger", which is probably way off base. @Decan, what do you think?

 

The most egregious errors seem to be the bad cards. Méchante femme should be "mean woman" or "nasty woman, not "angry woman." The Grimaud has "Wicked woman." The image shows a screaming woman and overturned chairs. Pathological anger issues, not normal anger.

"Dépit" isn't "disappointment" but this isn't completely wrong since in the dictionary they say that "dépit" is "grief mixed with anger, due to a disappointment, a wounded pride" but I think that "disappointment" isn't similar. Could be "vexation" instead here.

It can happen that French words haven't at times their exact equivalents in English, but generally we find equivalents since vocabulary is rich enough in both languages, my vocabulary in English could be much better though.

Maybe often they go too quickly to translate the titles. I remember indeed that Frankie was using the Sybille des Salons, actually I have myself an older copy by Grimaud (but don't use it often).

 

Otherwise for "Méchante femme" I would say "Wicked woman" too (like wicked witch), but indeed the woman looks hysterical on the card.

I think what the card shows is a shrew or a virago, in French we say "une mégère", who is actually a cantankerous, quick-tempered, wicked woman.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Decan

[Decan]

7 hours ago, katrinka said:

You can see the original title in french directly under the image: Chagrin, larmes. Sorrow, tears. And it's obvious from the image that the girl's dog has died.

So why did LS put "Infantilism" in the corners in multiple languages? Grief isn't "infantile."

Yes, there isn't that in the version by Grimaud, this is a mistake here.

 

[frankie]

13 hours ago, katrinka said:

Their LWBs are horrendous. Every. Single. One. I've. Seen.

Yup, that's been my experience too. Save the trees, indeed!

 

13 hours ago, katrinka said:

So maybe they're trying to sugarcoat those? But it doesn't make sense. The images are there in plain sight: the girl crying over the dead dog, the reaper, the woman pitching a tantrum. Do they honestly believe people don't look at their cards?

This longer booklet, written by someone named Valerio Ramponi, is a welcome change--he describes what you see in the image and offers a general, upright and reversal meanings, the latter of which I don't use. Normally, I'd say Lo Scarabeo should translate it and use it instead of generic LWB, but we know how it would go...!

 

13 hours ago, katrinka said:

They bug me. If I don't get rid of them, I'll end up stowing the deck and forgetting about it.

I hear you! I took a closer look at the titles, and aside from the occasional clunky translation (e.g. "Billet doux" as "Sweet card"), there's definitely some funny business going on with the negative cards, which is a shame. I find this deck great to read with.

 

13 hours ago, katrinka said:

So maybe they're trying to sugarcoat those? But it doesn't make sense. The images are there in plain sight: the girl crying over the dead dog, the reaper, the woman pitching a tantrum. Do they honestly believe people don't look at their cards?

This is a fair question to ask, and now that I've looked more closely, how can it not be anything other than sugarcoating?  I mean, we see that in the Tarot, Death doesn't really mean death or an ending. I took a pic of the offending trio and it's a real disconnect between image and label.

 

10 hours ago, Decan said:

"Dépit" isn't "disappointment" but this isn't completely wrong since in the dictionary they say that "dépit" is "grief mixed with anger, due to a disappointment, a wounded pride" but I think that "disappointment" isn't similar. Could be "vexation" instead here.

Incidentally, this is one of the cards I have the hardest time understanding, and it's come up in my readings a few times recently. Vexation is a good alternative. Building from the Ramponi booklet and my own readings, it's like someone who is proud, spiteful, and envious (prone to giving the evil eye!) or the sensation of bitterness, unhappiness about others' successes or with how things turn out compared to others or some high standard. It's for sure different from the Queen of Diamonds:

 

I've thrown in for good measure the Seven of Diamonds because I personally don't like the translation, but it's not as bad as the examples above.

[Decan]

12 hours ago, frankie said:

Incidentally, this is one of the cards I have the hardest time understanding, and it's come up in my readings a few times recently. Vexation is a good alternative. Building from the Ramponi booklet and my own readings, it's like someone who is proud, spiteful, and envious (prone to giving the evil eye!) or the sensation of bitterness, unhappiness about others' successes or with how things turn out compared to others or some high standard. It's for sure different from the Queen of Diamonds:

 

I've thrown in for good measure the Seven of Diamonds because I personally don't like the translation, but it's not as bad as the examples above.

 

Yeah, sure! For this one it is possible to trim it and to nicely write the right titles with a permanent pen (since the deck is cheap).

For the Grimaud there is an issue with the card "pensée", translated as "reverie", but "Pensée" is "thought", not "reverie", well...

[frankie]

10 hours ago, Decan said:

For the Grimaud there is an issue with the card "pensée", translated as "reverie", but "Pensée" is "thought", not "reverie", well...

Oof! 😮 I'll stick with the original French and my online dictionaries, and willfully ignore the translations. I'm terrible with scissors. 😭😆

[katrinka]

I wish we lived closer to each other. We could share this:
 

On 1/26/2022 at 9:07 PM, katrinka said:

 

 

On 1/27/2022 at 12:45 AM, Decan said:

"Dépit" isn't "disappointment" but this isn't completely wrong since in the dictionary they say that "dépit" is "grief mixed with anger, due to a disappointment, a wounded pride" but I think that "disappointment" isn't similar.

 

So kind of "What do you mean you don't have my money???" 🤣

 

On 1/27/2022 at 12:45 AM, Decan said:

I think what the card shows is a shrew or a virago, in French we say "une mégère", who is actually a cantankerous, quick-tempered, wicked woman.

Agreed. Someone best avoided.

The images are self-explanatory, but the words...oh, the words.
Thank you!

 

11 hours ago, Decan said:

Yeah, sure! For this one it is possible to trim it and to nicely write the right titles with a permanent pen (since the deck is cheap).

For the Grimaud there is an issue with the card "pensée", translated as "reverie", but "Pensée" is "thought", not "reverie", well...

 

Yes, like the Italian Sibilla Pensiero.
I'm going to try marking the borders. I have permanent ink, but I don't know how it will hold on plastified lamination. If it does OK: CHOP CHOP.

 

 

[Decan]

Yeah, the card "Thought" is found in many decks, as well in the Zigeuner Wahrsagekarten (it's almost impossible for me to remind the German name, I would have preferred that "gypsy" didn't become an offensive word!).

Here though I understand why they translated "Thought" by "Reverie"; actually the lady seems to think romantically to her beloved on the card, but a title is a title.

As well, in the Grimaud they translated "Amour" by "Cupid"; of course we understand why and it's not too problematic, but "Amour" is "Love, not "Cupid"!

 

Below a pic with a superfine permanent marker which could work on laminated cards, they have several colors as well, not just black, it can be blue or green for example.

I display also a card I don't understand... it's not the title or its translation (which is correct here) but I don't connect what is depicted on the card with "delay", I'm an idiot but don't see. If someone has an idea? 🙂

 

 

 

[katrinka]

58 minutes ago, Decan said:

Below a pic with a superfine permanent marker which could work on laminated cards, they have several colors as well, not just black, it can be blue or green for example.

 

Thank you! Have you used those on cards?
 

58 minutes ago, Decan said:

I display also a card I don't understand... it's not the title or its translation (which is correct here) but I don't connect what is depicted on the card with "delay", I'm an idiot but don't see. If someone has an idea?

 

That's Hippomenes and Atalanta. (And you're not an idiot. If you were, I'd be a double idiot since I always ask you for help with French!)

"Hippomenes fell in love with Atalanta, the virgin huntress who strongly disliked the idea of getting married. After a warning from an oracle about getting married, she declared that whoever wanted to marry her was to beat her in a footrace (herself being a notoriously swift runner), and that those who should try and lose would be punished by instant death. Another version (followed by Hyginus) was that her father wanted her to be married, but she did not. She agreed to running races against her suitors because she thought she would never lose.

Atalanta raced all her suitors and outran all but Hippomenes, who defeated her by cunning, not speed. Hippomenes knew that he could not win a fair race with Atalanta, so he prayed to Aphrodite for help (the goddess, in the meantime, disliked Atalanta's neglect of love).

Aphrodite gave him three golden apples – which came from her sacred apple-tree in Tamasus, Cyprus according to Ovid, or from the garden of the Herperides according to Servius – and told him to drop them one at a time to distract Atalanta. After each of the first two apples, Atalanta was able to recover the lead, but when she stopped for the third, Hippomenes won the race. It took all three apples and all of his speed, but Hippomenes was finally successful, winning the race and Atalanta's hand.

Atalanta and Hippomenes were turned into lions by Cybele as punishment after having sex in one of her temples they entered to take a rest during their journey to Hippomenes' home (the Greeks believed that lions could not mate with other lions, but only with leopards). Ovid and Servius suggest that Hippomenes forgot to pay the tribute to Aphrodite he had promised for helping him, and consequently, during the two's stay at Cybele's temple, Aphrodite caused them to have sex after going mad with lust, knowing that this would offend Cybele, and this indeed resulted in Cybele (or Zeus, according to Hyginus) transforming them into lions. Thereafter they drew Cybele's chariot, which Servius equates with the Earth itself."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippomenes

 

The same scene appears in the Grand Jeu. 😉

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by katrinka

[Decan]

49 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Thank you! Have you used those on cards?

Yes, absolutely, they work well (but you need the superfine permanent ones since there are also superfine non permanent markers which look similar).

 

49 minutes ago, katrinka said:

That's Hippomenes and Atalanta. (And you're not an idiot. If you were, I'd be a double idiot since I always ask you for help with French!)

Oh My, yes!! Now I see, thank you!🙂

[katrinka]

They just really, REALLY don't get it. There is nothing "professional" about 8 inch cards.

https://www.llewellyn.com/product.php?ean=9780738762371

 

[Decan]

Hmm yes, maybe it's to frame them and hang the small picture on a wall? 😁

[katrinka]

Or laminate them and use them as placemats. 🤣

[Decan]

49 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Or laminate them and use them as placemats. 🤣

Indeed, and since they are likely already laminated, you have 78 trendy placemats for cheap, not that bad finally! 😁

[katrinka]

Yes, the family can slop spaghetti or chili all over them and they wipe clean with a sponge! It's like having a Mr. Clean Tarot!