Opinions on the artwork for new deck please!

[faerybraids]

I really like the Three of Wands!

 

The Four of Wands throws me off a bit, personally. xD;; I usually associate it with completion or success of some sort, or prosperity. (That peace after a war or struggle, you know?) I do really like the virbrace... All the green and the woman's pose reminds me of someone content or pleased with their success and is relishing in it a bit, you know? There's a feeling of abundance and celebration of that success, but it feels a bit disconnected in a way. I like Starlight's suggestion of adding a few more people to it.

 

(Can I ask you not to change the moon in the Five? I love it. (>ω<❀) I understand if you feel the need to, though.) It mostly fits with my usual view of preparing for or waiting/standing ready for battle (a challenge, etc., so I guess exactly what Starlight sees ^^; ), but I think the positioning of the people feels a little off... Like, whether fighting each other or merely sparring they don't really look like they're actually doing it--their poses are too static and open, and their placements are too precise and contrast where their faces look. Now, sparring between five people wouldn't normally be done, from what I can remember studying (too much risk of serious injury, so it's mainly done in stories for showing how awesome the character is or in media today because it looks cool), but a fight between five people would get chaotic extremely quickly (think of a bar fight where everyone's up in each others' faces) and would just need some closer contact and incomplete moves to illustrate (unless you wanted to go all-out with clashing magic effects, which could be awesome or fall flat depending on the reader). If they were wielding those wands as quarterstaves there's a good chance at least one of them would have dropped theirs by the time the snapshot of the fight was taken. (Does that make sense?)

 

If you were to change the scene to more of the confused fight that Starlight mentions, would you keep someone watching the others like you have now? I'm wondering because usually the ones watching a group fighting are the smarter, more calculating (or at least more sober) ones. I could see it adding a layer of depth to the card, but I could also see it throwing something off. It might be something to think about re: any potential revisions? (My decks don't depict the card this way, so I'm going off what Starlight wrote and what I can see on google. ^^;;; )

[Starlight]

Faerybraids has a good point - some decks are not going to depict the 5W the same way. So here are a few examples of decks that I have:

 

- which this ties in with the next card image...

- this card feels more like victory than conflict, or perhaps energy being spent in the pursuit of victory. The Sun & Moon Tarot is leaning more towards Thoth than RWS, so this is perhaps why it's different from the other two cards here;

- the card I'm most familiar with and the one I was thinking about when I wrote about it above;

 

So, I was mixing the RWS 5 Wands with the Mythic 7 of Wands - I'm actually glad I looked at the cards set out like this. (The 5W and 7W in the Mythic and RWS look to be doing the reverse of each other...  :o ) Faerybraids has mentioned standing ready for battle, and there is also a hint of allies standing with you to help you defeat your foe in the battle. The Crystal Visions 5W looks as if one man is holding two men back from interfering in the fight between the two lions.

TBH, I'm not sure what to say to you about the card and what meaning to run with. I'm actually going to have to think about this myself. I is confused. Could be the lateness of the hour.

 

[52ravens]

Starlight[/member] and faerybraids[/member] thank you both for your amazing input, its so helpful.

 

4W should be an easy fix with making it a group celebration, but I'm so bad at guessing your reactions as I really thought 5W would pass on by without question!

 

Though I do totally understand what you mean, they are spread out, its not really a fight, but getting that feel with the resources I have might be tough, so maybe a new depiction is needed.

 

So I'm looking to encapsulate - conflict, differing opinions, competition?

 

This one is going to be tough, leave it with me but I'm happy to hear new ideas that fit the theme if anything comes to mind.  ;D

[Starlight]

Starlight[/member] and faerybraids[/member]

 

So I'm looking to encapsulate - conflict, differing opinions, competition?

 

This one is going to be tough, leave it with me but I'm happy to hear new ideas that fit the theme if anything comes to mind.  ;D

 

Yes, conflict, but possibly with allies (also fighting) on both sides of the main competitors because that would lend the 'battle with support' element. One of the cards I linked to only has three figures (with 5 wands), so the battle is depicted, but the number of characters in the scene is small. One of the cards only has one character, but the movement of the flames on the wands/torches gives the feeling of support - they echo the movement of the character and of her flame.

 

So perhaps you can think about the card some more and see how you see its meaning (conflict? Support in conflict? victory? all three?).

 

I think you may already have said this, but do you read cards yourself?

[faerybraids]

Adding onto Starlight's images she linked, my Royo Dark Mini shows three warriors with weapons at the ready, a snowy, icy landscape around them and a campfire tucked in the centre of them. (I'd post a pic if my camera worked, sorry. orz I couldn't find an image to link to on google, either...) Their weapons are at the ready, expecting conflict, but it's not yet there (though it's easy to image opponents being either far off/unseen or literally right in front of them, just off-frame). The Starchild Akashic is intriguing because it only shows one person sitting cross-legged--the landscape she sits in and the wands above her head speak more of a mental preparation or of a mental or spiritual challenge. (The deck is more overtly spiritually-inclined than many, which I'm guessing explains where much of the depiction comes from.) Regardless, both have that sense of waiting until the moment comes to face a challenge.

 

Looking at different depictions of the Five of Wands I think challenge, conflict and competition are what you can really distill the card down to, with it being when you choose to set the scene--preparing for it, waiting for it, immediately before it (if instigating*), during it, directly after it--that will determine the depiction and any extra meanings you tack onto it. I also think Starlight's onto something with the "battle with support thing": maybe it'll just take thinking on what that support will be in the card and the rest will fall into place?

(*This is how I see the first image Starlight linked to: the humans look they're actively challenging the dragon instead of waiting on the defensive for it to attack them. It's intriguing compared to the others.)

 

Starlight[/member] I really like that last example you posted! It reminds me of when two friends are having an argument and there's that one person who's like 'Stay out of it!' to everyone else to prevent extra drama. xD (Or else more literally, 'Do you idiots reaaaaaally want to come between two fighting lions? Really?') There seems to be an extra element of thinking things through to it.

[Starlight]

faerybraids[/member] I'm loving this thread as much for the discussion of the cards and why the imagery is the way it is as for the new deck coming into creation! :)

 

I've never done that exercise where you look at the same card from different decks; I've always just read a card as it shows up in a reading. But seeing the 5W all laid out like this and reading about the cards you have yourself, it's very obvious that different decks do not portray the card in the same way! There's no consensus.

 

Yes, you're right about the Mythic Tarot 5W. Jason and Medea are tackling the dragon trying to retrieve the golden fleece. She's helping him (she had occult powers, if I remember the myth correctly) and they actively searched for the fleece together. He still had to battle the dragon himself, though. Her powers did not extend to that.

 

 

Looking at different depictions of the Five of Wands I think challenge, conflict and competition are what you can really distill the card down to, with it being when you choose to set the scene--preparing for it, waiting for it, immediately before it (if instigating*), during it, directly after it--that will determine the depiction and any extra meanings you tack onto it.

 

You've summed it up very well!

 

I really like that last example you posted! It reminds me of when two friends are having an argument and there's that one person who's like 'Stay out of it!' to everyone else to prevent extra drama. xD (Or else more literally, 'Do you idiots reaaaaaally want to come between two fighting lions? Really?') There seems to be an extra element of thinking things through to it.

 

Different creators are putting their own spin on things, aren't they? And that's the value in different decks for different readings - they all have something unique to offer. I see now why some people who intuitively choosing a deck for a reading are doing so. There's layers of nuance in the imagery. And something in a card will catch my eye, and I know that's when my intuition is saying "Pay attention to that. It's important!"

 

You know, 52ravens[/member] , the discussion between faerybraids[/member] and myself on the Mythic Tarot in particular has made me think of an idea which may or may not be useful for you.

 

What if you were to take scenes from myths and legends featuring the type of characters you see as resonating with the spirit of this deck, and incorporate the moments of their stories into the appropriate card? Each suit in the Mythic Tarot is based on a specific Greek myth, but you wouldn't necessarily have to confine yourself to that restriction. Even a moment in a story that resonates with the energy of a card might be enough. You could re-use different moments of the same story for different cards and suits, but it might help to narrow things down as well as opening up the opportunity to work with specifics. Just a thought. :)

[faerybraids]

faerybraids[/member] I'm loving this thread as much for the discussion of the cards and why the imagery is the way it is as for the new deck coming into creation! :)

 

I've never done that exercise where you look at the same card from different decks; I've always just read a card as it shows up in a reading. But seeing the 5W all laid out like this and reading about the cards you have yourself, it's very obvious that different decks do not portray the card in the same way! There's no consensus.

Different creators are putting their own spin on things, aren't they? And that's the value in different decks for different readings - they all have something unique to offer. I see now why some people who intuitively choosing a deck for a reading are doing so. There's layers of nuance in the imagery. And something in a card will catch my eye, and I know that's when my intuition is saying "Pay attention to that. It's important!"

 

I know, right? :D When I was getting back into tarot I was compulsively comparing decks to see how they clicked, and I feel I learned as much from that as I have from any amount of text-based studying so far. It's a perfect representation of the time-old "throw an idea at 100 different artists/writers/etc. and you'll get 100 different creations"--some will differ greatly, and some will hardly be different at all, but those differences will still be there. :D

 

 

Yes, you're right about the Mythic Tarot 5W. Jason and Medea are tackling the dragon trying to retrieve the golden fleece. She's helping him (she had occult powers, if I remember the myth correctly) and they actively searched for the fleece together. He still had to battle the dragon himself, though. Her powers did not extend to that.

 

Ahhh, so that's what it is! That makes sense. (And shows how much I need to brush up on my knowledge of mythology. xD;; ) I feel like I need to check out this deck again, I've seen images pop up in a few places and they're intriguing me.

 

 

What if you were to take scenes from myths and legends featuring the type of characters you see as resonating with the spirit of this deck, and incorporate the moments of their stories into the appropriate card? Each suit in the Mythic Tarot is based on a specific Greek myth, but you wouldn't necessarily have to confine yourself to that restriction. Even a moment in a story that resonates with the energy of a card might be enough. You could re-use different moments of the same story for different cards and suits, but it might help to narrow things down as well as opening up the opportunity to work with specifics. Just a thought. :)

 

I just wanna say this used to be one of my favourite exercises for writing and drawing. :D I whole-heartedly encourage trying it out, even if it doesn't make it into the final deck or even past an initial sketching/whatever stage--it can really help wrap your head around things. :)

[52ravens]

I'm so glad that this thread isn't just me and one other user, faerybraids[/member] and Starlight[/member], you both have similar and yet different opinions on each card and that is extremely helpful to me, to focus the artwork to as wide an audience as possible. As I've mentioned before, I don't read cards so I'm at the mercy of Google and the llewellyn classic tarot book/app for guidance. So thank you both for all the help and advice. I'd love for others to have their say, but if its just the three of us, I'm happy  ;D

 

With the 5W, I've been back and fourth with ideas and I think I've settled on two characters, both ready and one second away for wands clashing. I'll have five wands in view and I think this will be enough to show conflict, differing opinions and competition. Fingers crossed.

 

What if you were to take scenes from myths and legends featuring the type of characters you see as resonating with the spirit of this deck, and incorporate the moments of their stories into the appropriate card? Each suit in the Mythic Tarot is based on a specific Greek myth, but you wouldn't necessarily have to confine yourself to that restriction. Even a moment in a story that resonates with the energy of a card might be enough. You could re-use different moments of the same story for different cards and suits, but it might help to narrow things down as well as opening up the opportunity to work with specifics. Just a thought. :)

 

Its a great idea, but even further away from my knowledge base. Maybe this can be the theme for the next deck, I hope I can keep doing them as I'm so enjoying this collaboration with the forum.

 

It's a perfect representation of the time-old "throw an idea at 100 different artists/writers/etc. and you'll get 100 different creations"--some will differ greatly, and some will hardly be different at all, but those differences will still be there. :D

 

YES! This is what its like to post new designs. I throw them out into the open, run behind my chair and peak out to see if people are ok with it haha

[52ravens]

Today I have the updated 4 and 5 of wands, fingers crossed for the 5 haha

 

Thanks for all the help  ^-^

 

[faerybraids]

I'm gonna take some time to think on them (initial impression of the Five is I like it, Four I'm not entirely sure yet), but I have to ask: is that R2D2-like crystal in front of the kneeling person supposed to look like R2? Or was that unintentional? (I think it's great, but was just wondering. xD Am I just seeing a second wolf or husky wrong? Full disclaimer: I was watching part of that weirdly animated Star Wars TV show last night with my partner. That could be influencing my vision. ^^;; )

[Starlight]

I like the 5 of Wands, but now that Faerybraid's has mentioned it, the second wolf (I'm assuming it is a second wolf) does look at bit strange. I think its head is lowered? Perhaps in a physical card it would look clearer, but on screen it isn't.

 

I'm still not convinced by the 4 of Wands.

 

In the Mythic Tarot, the 4 Wands is Jason getting ready to set sail with the Argonauts. The King and Queen are praising him for his courage and wishing him well on his journey.

 

 

In the Sun and Moon tarot the card is called Completion:

 

 

The 4W is about completion of one phase, and a small celebration, and getting ready for the next phase. So a small celebration of some sort, or a homecoming before setting out on a new quest, or even the point of departure and the fond farewells would all be relevant.

 

The main thing about the 4W as you have it here is that I can't get a sense of the relationship between the two main figures in the card. I don't know what they're thinking or doing. They're beside one another but the interaction between them isn't evident.

[Guest]

This thread went from "opinions on artwork" to "help me make a deck of cards," didn't it?

 

It's become a community deck. to be honest some of them are cringe worthy images. The lighting, color, and perspective, are all a clash. Everything has the appearance of a colorful soup of muddy collage. I would suggest taking all these cards once you are done with Starlight and Faerybraids helping you set the scene construction of each and drawing them yourself. That is when you will become one with each card and learn to breath that which the card is.

 

Only that which is put into your cards can extracted from them. I am not trying to be a negative jerk here, just a reality check. You don't have to spend an entire lifetime building a deck,  bu the decks you are imitating did have that amount of effort put into them.

 

Should I look at a card and think I recognize things from Deviant Art? Should't the creator of a tarot deck have something to share with others, some understanding or knowledge?

 

I guess in the big scheme of things I would never ever lay out money for a deck of cards that looks like someone spent a winter photoshoping all the cosplay and stock imagery Deviant art has to offer into a deck of cards.

 

that fool card you made was great, it really said something. It inspired me even if it did look a little cheap with that heavy texturizer filter applied to it...I was really bummed to see you change it over and over as the opinions rolled in.. and not once did it occur to you that the scene construction was excellent in the first place you just needed more execution to the artwork. (which is what the thread was about initially, you knew that was  good scene you just wanted opinions on the art ) there was nothing wrong with the placement of the dog/type of dog/ bag on her shoulder nothing. It was a GREAT way to look at that card. You were really on to a good start and then you changed gears and started catering to everyone's opinions.

[Starlight]

Yikes. I feel like I've just had my wrists slapped or something....  :-[

 

This thread went from "opinions on artwork" to "help me make a deck of cards," didn't it?

 

It's become a community deck.

 

You were really on to a good start and then you changed gears and started catering to everyone's opinions.

 

Should't the creator of a tarot deck have something to share with others, some understanding or knowledge?

 

I can see what whatsawwhosit means about this becoming a community deck. There’s a fine line between offering feedback/help and actually influencing an artist/creator. More recently, I’ve been sharing cards from different decks and discussing how the creators depicted the images. It was fun, a good way to dive deeper into the cards, I enjoyed the discussion and I wanted to help; but that wasn’t the original focus of the thread. I think it's better for me to err on the side of caution now and take a step back because I'm not sure if I've actually helped or hindered the process.

 

I would suggest taking all these cards once you are done with Starlight and Faerybraids helping you set the scene construction of each and drawing them yourself.

 

I completely agree with this. It’ll make a more cohesive deck.

 

 

 

The only thing I would say, whatsawhosit[/member] , is that your words felt a bit harsh in places. There was no pulling punches. :) (But were punches necessary?)

[Guest]

Nothing stings quite like having your art critiqued. In my whole life of all the divorces, deaths, etc I can honestly say that nothing hits home quite like having someone say "that's good spongebob but your scene is lacking basic construction and your perspective leaves a lot to be desired..."

 

you guys are actually doing something really really amazing..if I wasn't going full throttle doing something else I would be more helpful, I do apologize. The scene construction over all is getting rather solid, I think more thought has gone into this thread already than is put into some of the decks I have scene.

 

The deck I am working on in the other thread I began THE EXACT SAME WAY AS THIS 6 years ago. And someone gave me roughly the same speech about 5 years and 8 months ago...and I was pissed...that my 11 year old daughter had to inform me that my pictures looked like a 12 year old made them in gimp. I have an entire deck that is awful that I thought was golden....until she said that ???

[Starlight]

Nothing stings quite like having your art critiqued. In my whole life of all the divorces, deaths, etc I can honestly say that nothing hits home quite like having someone say "that's good spongebob but your scene is lacking basic construction and your perspective leaves a lot to be desired..."

 

The deck I am working on in the other thread I began THE EXACT SAME WAY AS THIS 6 years ago. And someone gave me roughly the same speech about 5 years and 8 months ago...and I was pissed...that my 11 year old daughter had to inform me that my pictures looked like a 12 year old made them in gimp. I have an entire deck that is awful that I thought was golden....until she said that ???

 

Out of the mouth of babes! lol Our kids keep us looking at the world with fresh eyesight, don't they? It's wonderful. And it's obvious she was interested enough and cared enough and felt safe enough to offer your her opinion. :)

 

I've been checking out your thread about the deck you're working on. I haven't left any comments because I'm really not qualified to as I know next to nothing about astrology or decans as they relate to tarot cards. I do like reading the posts and other people's comments, though. :)

 

you guys are actually doing something really really amazing..if I wasn't going full throttle doing something else I would be more helpful, I do apologize. The scene construction over all is getting rather solid, I think more thought has gone into this thread already than is put into some of the decks I have scene.

 

Thanks, whatsawhosit[/member]. I was getting rather caught up in the project, but your words made me realise that I had overstepped a boundary in my enthusiasm. 52ravens[/member] had a vision for their deck, and that vision should have been left untouched. Commenting on the execution is a different matter entirely.

 

Just out of interest, whatsawhosit, how would you suggest we critique any other cards 52ravens might want to share? What approach do you suggest for providing feedback?

[IndigoWaves]

FWIW, I can see why a non-card-reading deck creator would seek others' opinions in this way: Hoping to appeal to a wider audience... With no particular 'message' or personal driving force behind the cards involved, making it a strictly financial endeavour, this does seem rather sensible. (Just my 2¢.)

[52ravens]

I wasn't too sure how to respond to this, as I feel that whatsawhosit[/member] has killed the flow of this thread, and any response is only going to add fuel to the fire. But here we go.

 

Yes, the theme of this thread has evolved, much like conversations in the real world tend to. It was started with the intent to see if people of the tarot community would like the artwork style. Though after a few posts it was made clear that, as a non-card reader, my personal research into each card wasn't that great.

 

I have really enjoyed the back and fourth with the users of this forum, especially Starlight[/member] and faerybraids[/member] as they've given so much help, and as I've mentioned before, I'm incredibly grateful for it. I'm sure if Starlight[/member] and faerybraids[/member] felt like I was taking advantage of them they would stop responding to the posts.

 

IndigoWaves[/member] is right, this is a financial endeavour, and thanks to the wonder of technology I'm able to connect with people that do understand the meaning of the cards, thank goodness for forums like this to make the world a smaller place.

 

My plan has always been to get this deck funded on Kickstarter, but do people really think I wouldn't reward Starlight[/member] and faerybraids[/member] for all their hard work? Or donate to a forum that has helped me develop my deck?

 

whatsawhosit[/member] if you had chipped in as the posts went along with either art critique or opinions on the meaning of the card, I'd be happy with your feedback, but to simply appear on page 10 and have a blanketing statement to show your disapproval and killing the flow of this thread is such a shame.

 

Starlight[/member] you weren't overstepping boundaries with your enthusiasm, this is exactly what I need, thanks to you, Starlight[/member] and the users of this forum I feel my deck has a much wider appeal. (Though I'm not stupid enough to think it will be to everyones tastes). And please "What approach do you suggest for providing feedback?" I need your own, not the edit version of someone else lol.

 

I really hope that we can get past this and get back to the fun we've been having over the last month or so. If not, maybe a private team up is on the cards (pun intended).

 

[Guest]

You have confused an analysis of your progress as disapproval. For ten pages there is nothing to say but watch and learn, maybe you should have taken the only critique of your art more seriously in the first place.  Since i have absolutely no desire whatsoever to force feed the world another RWS clone I had no intention of teaching you the most basic rudiments of symbology and tarot so i didn't keep posting, but I kept reading. Waiting for you to notice what I said immediately in what was the first or second post.

 

I don't care about how much money you make and how you choose to share, I was never offered any so I am not hurt or offended that others may receive it.  I am not so sure they want money either, i think the point of this from our POV was to enlighten someone who was searching for something, and not so much to help you pay the bills. But every single one of us would be really happy if you did, I assure you.

 

I was really just being honest about the art, don't embarrass yourself selling this deck. Put some actual effort into this, my daughter is 15 now and she has drawn a better Majors than this art wise just copying me. She even said she wished so many people would have assisted her. How's she gonna learn if I hand her every nuance? She can draw better than the two us added together and is on her way into the world of art, but she practices and works hard. Practice practice practice.

 

The "flow,"  you are referring to is the flow of thoughts, between all of you. it was not some artistic magic or revelation of hidden thought. You are in the midst of a teaching/learning relationship with a few people who care enough to teach /learn with you. It can only be assumed that if you give up now you were not even half as serious as everyone else in this thread about Tarot and Occult. i am sure if you just put another picture up here everyone will get right back into telling you to move the wand, rotate the sword, make the girl taller etc. But to be honest once again, all this advice you could have for the price of buying a bunch of tarot cards and actually study tarot before you try to make a tarot deck.

 

I still stick to my Initial suggestion. Finish these CONCEPT images and then get down and dirty and make something that is pleasing to the eye and the soul. If you don't someone else will...and if I may suggest one more time tone down that texturizer that is making that fake paper. Once the card is printed that texture is going to make your card look flat and fake anytime the light is in a different angle than the one you set in the filter settings. if you look at some actual art in person you will see that the canvas and paper does not shadow itself so hard, this leaves people with an impression of "fake" or "cheap" that they typically can not exactly put their finger on.

[52ravens]

You have confused an analysis of your progress as disapproval. For ten pages there is nothing to say but watch and learn, maybe you should have taken the only critique of your art more seriously in the first place.  Since i have absolutely no desire whatsoever to force feed the world another RWS clone I had no intention of teaching you the most basic rudiments of symbology and tarot so i didn't keep posting, but I kept reading. Waiting for you to notice what I said immediately in what was the first or second post.

 

If you have no desire to help a non-cardreader get a deeper meanings into the cards or create a RWS clone, why continue to read this thread or bother posting a response? I simply don't understand the effort needed to disapprove.

 

I don't care about how much money you make and how you choose to share, I was never offered any so I am not hurt or offended that others may receive it.  I am not so sure they want money either, i think the point of this from our POV was to enlighten someone who was searching for something, and not so much to help you pay the bills. But every single one of us would be really happy if you did, I assure you.

 

Nobody was offered money, I was simply stating that as a thanks to the most helpful people there would be rewards as I'm not a heartless person and strongly believe that good deeds should be rewarded. I'm not just on this forum to take from the community, I'm here to learn, and hopefully give back if I can.

 

I was really just being honest about the art, don't embarrass yourself selling this deck. Put some actual effort into this, my daughter is 15 now and she has drawn a better Majors than this art wise just copying me. She even said she wished so many people would have assisted her. How's she gonna learn if I hand her every nuance? She can draw better than the two us added together and is on her way into the world of art, but she practices and works hard. Practice practice practice.

 

Art is subjective, if you don't like what you see, move on, there's plenty more to enjoy. I wish you and your daughter the best of luck and look forward to seeing your projects in print one day.

 

The "flow,"  you are referring to is the flow of thoughts, between all of you. it was not some artistic magic or revelation of hidden thought. You are in the midst of a teaching/learning relationship with a few people who care enough to teach /learn with you. It can only be assumed that if you give up now you were not even half as serious as everyone else in this thread about Tarot and Occult. i am sure if you just put another picture up here everyone will get right back into telling you to move the wand, rotate the sword, make the girl taller etc. But to be honest once again, all this advice you could have for the price of buying a bunch of tarot cards and actually study tarot before you try to make a tarot deck.

 

I'm so thankful for all the help everyone has given in the development of each of the cards when the meaning hasn't hit home. I wont be giving up on this deck and hope that we can get back to the fun we've been having. I do all the research I can on a cards meaning before creating the artwork and posting here, and as a non-cardreader I'm going to miss sometimes, thank goodness for the kindness of others.

 

I still stick to my Initial suggestion. Finish these CONCEPT images and then get down and dirty and make something that is pleasing to the eye and the soul. If you don't someone else will...and if I may suggest one more time tone down that texturizer that is making that fake paper. Once the card is printed that texture is going to make your card look flat and fake anytime the light is in a different angle than the one you set in the filter settings. if you look at some actual art in person you will see that the canvas and paper does not shadow itself so hard, this leaves people with an impression of "fake" or "cheap" that they typically can not exactly put their finger on.

 

I took the original suggestion of toning down the texture of the paper from your initial post on board when you first posted, but I like the way this looks and didn't feel the need to shoot you down over it. Once I do a few test print decks on different stocks or with the air cushion finish, this may change, but for now, I like it so it stays.

[Guest]

I offered my opinion on your art. as an artist I am in a great position to offer you some advice. Having been smacked down myself more than a few times after exhaustive preparations, I know a little something of the process. I said something cause I care about you and your project through the feeling of empathy having traveled the same path. You are missing the point, your art is actually sub-par. This is not merely my opinion. The conceptual content of the cards so far done is average, that is my opinion based on what I know about tarot cards which is probably all nonsense.

 

My "stuff" IS in print you have probably heard me on the radio or played video games with my hand in them I have been an artist my entire life and rather than rubbing your nose in my accomplishments, i just offered you advice you asked for, taken from my experiences. If everyone is just telling you great stuff about your art, chances are they are blind or lying to you. It's just never perfect, none of us is truly a Michelangelo sadly The one person that is offering a critical analysis is going to be the one that really cares, the one that is willing to risk a relationship to share with you.

 

I have a feeling you have really taken all of this negatively, which is dis heartening since all of you were making such wonderful progress. Since we are in a forum setting you will have to imagine I am being nice and calm, you can't hear my voice or see my posture.

 

I like to talk about art and techniques. I kept mentioning the texturizer because I had an art director shoot me down hard on that. In the end I created about a dozen displacement maps out of hi res sandstone images and used Crazy bump to give me just the faintest suggestion of the surface, and enough maps it did not look repetitious. Art directors know the business, i follow their lead. They make money.

 

I am certain that if you were to watch a video from Gnomon schools on matte painting (something like this maybe) you work would be like 1000% better. That is the specific workflow and style you are into here, and it is a lot of fun. just a couple hours of your life, when i was with one studio they wanted everyone to watch all of the Gnomon courses.

 

So I am honestly sorry I hurt your feelings, I kinda figured I would, everyone here at home said I shouldn't... really sorry. go have fun :)

 

I think everyone should carry on, I really need to get back to it myself.  ::)

 

 

 

[Starlight]

(As I was drafting my response, whatsawhosit replied, so I haven't added to anything from that post because I haven't gotten to read it yet.)

 

As difficult as it is to hear/read, Whatsawhosit is genuinely trying to help you – your best chances on Kickstarter are if you stick with your own creative vision of the cards; they’ll be unique, they’ll be your creative vision, and there’ll be something of you in them. This is way better than trying to create something that’s a mix of other people’s different suggestions, which might be very confusing for serious card readers and could have a huge impact on your K campaign.

 

You're a creator, 52ravens[/member] , and you should be free to rely on your own artistic vision and not have others dictate what you create. (I'm coming at this from a writer perspective. Write what you know, don't write for the approval of others, etc.)

 

With that in mind, what was your initial concept? What were you trying to create when you started the project? What was the idea that triggered a desire to create your own deck? I think it's wise to go back to this spark and work from there.

 

Not being an artist myself, I am no longer comfortable commenting on how you create your images. It feels wrong to limit the artistic process like that.

 

So maybe we can continue with the project in a different way? I'm happy to share what the cards in a RWS deck mean to me, and how they speak to me. After that, you can have a think about how to best portray that, drawing on your life experiences (because that's a big part of the Tarot - it relates to people's lives and life events and feelings and thoughts and so on) and let your own inner muse tell you when you’ve created something that speaks TO YOU. Let this deck be entirely yours. The success will be all yours then, too. :)

[faerybraids]

Damn, I get sidelined with fatigue for a few days and come back to this. (´• ︿ •̥`❀)

 

All I'm gonna leave right now is this:

 

52ravens[/member] I'm still willing to help out whatever way I can. I've been treating this as a sort of group artist thing more than a "I'm gonna strictly critique you on X" thing (so basically what I'd be doing if I were in a room with other artists and we were all drawing or doing whatever, and we were mainly looking to bounce ideas off other people and such. Given everything's been done online it's the most comfortable approach for me, especially since my old hand-me-down laptop doesn't display things great and I don't feel comfortable critiquing the use of filters and the like as a result. And as you've mentioned, you're not really going to know how they'll look in person until they're printed anyway, so changing them now's like trying to decide between Sakura Microns and Prismacolors for inking when you're not even sure what final paper you'll be inking on: pointless because they both react so differently based on the paper you choose and what your personal preference is.) Also, I've never been in this for any free gifts or anything, but I do think it's super sweet of you to even think about doing, regardless of whether it happens or not. (◠‿◠❀) (I still think it was super generous of you to have given me the file of one of your previous images! I still love it.♡)

 

Art is subjective, if you don't like what you see, move on, there's plenty more to enjoy.

 

Aaand this is pretty much the rest of what I was gonna post. I happen to loathe many of the decks on the market, so seeing your art here has been a breath of fresh air for me in that respect. You've known from the beginning that I absolutely adore your style, so I'm not sure I need to say anything more on that. (The rest of my original response got rather ranty, so...)

 

Would you like me to be a bit more nitty-gritty with my critiques? I can be, but it never really felt like this thread was about that to begin with--it always felt more "does this style work?" and "do my depictions make sense?" (i.e. looking for a group to hang out with and work with, not an art teacher or a mentor. They beg two rather different critiquing styles, so please correct me if I'm wrong about this!)

[52ravens]

Damn, I get sidelined with fatigue for a few days and come back to this. (´• ︿ •̥`❀)

 

I know, right!  ;D

 

faerybraids[/member] and Starlight[/member] - If you'd both like to carry on as we have been doing, that would be fantastic. I like how you respond to the cards, whether thats on the art, placement or meaning. Sometimes you don't agree and that really helps to get some meaning back into the card. Its been so helpful to me as a non-cardreader, that I know left to my own depiction, the deck wouldn't have as much appeal to others given that the card doesn't show you the meaning you were looking for.

 

I'd love more people to chip in BUT if its just the 3 of us carrying on, I'm happy and know my deck will be the better for it.

 

I'm happy to share what the cards in a RWS deck mean to me, and how they speak to me. After that, you can have a think about how to best portray that

 

That would be perfect as it is kind of what we've been doing. I'm personally happy with the artwork style and feel it will appeal to others, but I'm slowly learning that the smallest thing could throw the meaning out, so help on this is greatly appreciated.

 

looking for a group to hang out with and work with, not an art teacher or a mentor.

 

Exactly! Its great that this tread has become a hang out to check on and see what people are saying. I envision an open plan office, with beanbag cushions and a coffee machine on the side haha

 

So if everyone is happy to carry on: 4W is a celebration so the people need to connect, and 5W, I need to get rid of the wolf that looks like R2D2  ;D (he does look awkward and it'll mean I can get things a little bigger.)

[Starlight]

I'm happy to share what the cards in a RWS deck mean to me, and how they speak to me. After that, you can have a think about how to best portray that

 

That would be perfect as it is kind of what we've been doing. I'm personally happy with the artwork style and feel it will appeal to others, but I'm slowly learning that the smallest thing could throw the meaning out, so help on this is greatly appreciated.

 

 

Sure thing! I'm happy to discuss the cards with you. I'm glad you're continuing with the project. :)

[52ravens]

Lets get back to the fun stuff  8)

 

Here are the revised 4 and 5 of wands. With 4W the whole image has changed as I couldn't get the right feel with what I had and over adapting it was making it a little messy so its all new. We now have a group celebration, almost as though they are celebrating the changing of the season with the falling blossom, and there is the temporary structure with the wands in the background.

 

For the 5W, R2D2 dog has gone haha, and I've there is now a little falling snow to add a little more to scene.

 

Let me know how these meanings fit with what you'd expect for the cards

 

Thank you, hopefully if all is good I'll posted the next three cards. (that is if faerybraids[/member] doesn't find a hidden Chewbacca in the 4W ;D )