Opinions on the artwork for new deck please!

[Samual_Jennings]

I would be nervous reading a deck that was just for show.

 

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[52ravens]

I would be nervous reading a deck that was just for show.

 

Hey Samual, do you feel that in the artwork it is hard to find the traditional means of RWS?

[Samual_Jennings]

A little bit. RWS has such childlike simplicity amongst its symbolism. Adding more art can often hide the symbolism.

 

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[Samual_Jennings]

A little bit. RWS has such childlike simplicity amongst its symbolism. Adding more art can often hide the symbolism.

 

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More so, I'm nervous that you are not a reader, yet you design a deck. A deck is always better when it is designed to be read by fellow readers.

 

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[52ravens]

A deck is always better when it is designed to be read by fellow readers.

I totally understand that, this is why I'm here, to make sure what I'm producing is up to the standards you guys expect.

 

RWS has such childlike simplicity amongst its symbolism. Adding more art can often hide the symbolism.

With that in mind, would you think that the symbolism would be hard to find for experienced readers?

[52ravens]

Here are the next three cards. I notice that the view counter is going up but no one is responding. I'd love to know what you guys think when trying to find the traditional meanings in the cards, any feedback is extremely useful.

 

Let me know what you think  ;D

 

[Samual_Jennings]

A deck is always better when it is designed to be read by fellow readers.

I totally understand that, this is why I'm here, to make sure what I'm producing is up to the standards you guys expect.

 

RWS has such childlike simplicity amongst its symbolism. Adding more art can often hide the symbolism.

With that in mind, would you think that the symbolism would be hard to find for experienced readers?

In your cards that I've seen, I have trouble actually finding RWS symbolism.

 

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[52ravens]

3 more cards, let me know what you guys think  :D

 

[52ravens]

Here are the next three cards, I'd love to know what you guys think  ;)

 

[52ravens]

Hey, today I have the next six cards to move things along. Let me know if you feel the meanings aren't shining through  ;D

 

 

[tarotsquared]

I like it.  are all the characters female? 

[Samual_Jennings]

Hey, today I have the next six cards to move things along. Let me know if you feel the meanings aren't shining through  ;D

 

 

Why is the King of Pentacles a girl?

 

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[52ravens]

I like it.  are all the characters female? 

 

Thank you, it is an all female tarot deck  :D

 

Samual_Jennings[/member] - please see above haha ;D

 

Thanks for look guys!

[52ravens]

3 new ones to take a look at  ;D

 

[tarotsquared]

Your artwork is lovely!  <3

I am a tarot reader and have launched a kickstarter with my own  illustrations. (Tarot of Little Secrets).  Art for me is actually much like reading tarot.  When reading, I have found that the cards say what they want to say and go where they want to go.  The creative process is much like that for me.  Although my deck is based on the RWD, there is absolute artistic licence in my interpretation of the symbolism.  Some of this will be explained in the LWB, but I believe intuitive tarot readers will find their own meanings in the images.  For that reason, I rather like the idea that you just jumped right in!  I would suggest, however, that you familiarize yourself with some of the universally understood meaning of the archetypes and see if you have those elements in your illustrations.  For instance, the 7 of cups is about fantasy, illusion, choices that may not be what they seem. Are there elements you could add to the illustration to convey this?

[52ravens]

tarotsquared[/member] - Thank you. Tarot of Little Secrets looks great on kickstarter, 20+ days to go and you're almost funded, great work! I really like the Ace of Pentacles  8)

 

Its no secret that I'm not a tarot reader and I'm sure a lot of my art is missing parts that are needed by those that know the cards, but I'm finding research alone is limiting, hence posting here to get opinions.

 

I did have two very helpful users that spotted these things for me but lately its just me posting what I have. I'm so thankful for their help, I believe they really made a difference to the deck, but they've moved on or are too busy, and thats fine (I'm not silly to think that other people don't have their own lives to live haha).

 

I'll take a look at the seven of cups with fantasies, illusion and misleading choices in mind. Maybe once I'm done with this draft I'll go back over them and see if the cards really do fit the meanings and I haven't just got lost in the fun of creating the artwork  ;D

[tarotsquared]

Good luck!They are beautiful,

[52ravens]

Good morning to you all on this sunny Sunday (well it is in the London, UK)

 

Here are three more cards to look at, let me know your thoughts on how the meanings come through.

 

[Page of Ghosts]

I had an issue with this deck that I struggled to understand exactly what was for the longest time, but now I think I've got it figured out. So if I can come with a suggestion or critique I kind of think the people in many of your images are standing around and not interacting with your world a whole lot? It's like they're just there, part of the scenery and don't come across to me as having a purpose with what they're doing or who they're with. This feel gets amplified since quite a lot of them have faces that are turned away, are far into the distance or somehow shrouded in darkness. They come across to me as a little aloof or disengaged as a whole, but I think they have been overall improving and getting more diverse in your more recent batches so it's probably fair to say this is more of an issue in the Majors and Wands, maybe some of the Pents (I haven't scrolled all the way back to see all of them, I gotta admit, but I remember having this feeling from early on in your project). That 9 of Cups is a card I'm a big fan of! Same with the King of Pentacles, she has a different pose (facing the viewer of the card) that I don't think we've seen much of before. 8 of Cups is very standard but I like it as well, since from ye olde classic ideas about this card the person in the image is very purposefully walking away from us. And I try to imagine the kinds of things that could come through for someone with a complicated relationship with their mother if they were to pull the 10 of Cups.

 

It could be mostly me who need some extra engagement from the people in the cards, a lot of people love this kind of scene composition and I'm sure there are many decks that have that "people standing around looking mysterious"-vibe and still working great. And I do know other people are far better than me at getting intuitive ideas from tarot cards, it isn't really my strongest suit and something I try to work on. For all I know you have planned this deck to be a lot of shrouded or turned away people, and that's ok if that's your plan. But if this wasn't intentional it could be worth looking into, maybe when you're done with your initial 78 images you could lay them out and look at the scenes and see how many of them are similar or convey a similar feeling. At that point you might want to rework some of them, although I imagine fixing stuff is a lot easier if you have adequate skills working digitally since you can move things around a lot and not necessarily start from scratch. With that textured filter you might not be able to add in so many little tiny details because they get lost in the texture, so if you're open to the idea and I'm not trespassing too rudely on your territory I wonder if you could have fun with some close-ups as well? The Morgan-Greer Tarot, for example, is a fun 70's tarot that has pretty much all waist up, chest up or just faces for the people and it works pretty well in my opinion, even in more action-oriented cards. Sometimes there is just hands and it's quite effective!

 

When I say this I also wanna note that I don't think I'm in the market for this deck, I thought whatsawhosits critique earlier was an interesting read (although I am a wimp and would have cried if I got that myself, being an artist is hard!) and I agree you shouldn't get too caught up in what I say and stay focused on your ~artistic vision~. This is your project, not mine, after all. I was one of the people wondering about the composition in your Fool early on because I thought that was the sort of feedback you were looking for but I agree it went off in a not so fun direction (for me at least) so I just stepped away since there seemed to be enough other people interested. So with that all out in the open I'm curious to see how this develops because I think it's been getting a bit more diverse recently and that's a good thing to me. Maybe it has helped you focus more on your vision with this thread being more quiet for a while now?

[52ravens]

Hey Page of Ghosts[/member], thank you for taking the time to write such a wonderful suggestion/critique, its so helpful to hear what people think.

 

I really do see what you mean when I look back. I think as I’ve gone on (from about mid way through pentacle), I may have got a better feel for what I want each card to say. I’m not suggesting that my research is anywhere near perfect but maybe its improving. . . a little haha

 

I think when I was getting help with the meanings it was pushing me in a better direction, it truly is the one thing I’m most worried about getting right, that the images appeal to others and convey what they need to say. I can’t deny that this project has been more difficult without their help, but totally understand that there are bigger things in the world and they have their own lives :)

 

The Morgan-Greer Tarot has some really interesting artwork. I like the way a lot of it (like you said) is close up and tight with the characters. I guess its really filling the card with enough to get the meaning across. Maybe looking at this artwork will help me when I get to the end of my 78 cards and see if I can get the same sense from these cards as I do my own. This might be the way forward for me, to take a look at as many versions of one card, that follow similarly with RWS, and compare them to my end result. What do you think? I like the idea of going in closer too and this is something I’ll keep in mind, not every card needs a full figure.

 

Don’t put yourself down for offering an opinion, I can roll with the punches and take it on the chin when people feel the need. Sometimes it needs to be said, and good or bad it will only help (I think). The Fool card did get a lot of attention and it got changed around, but I’m happy with the final result, help with the meaning of the cards is what I need, so thank you for helping. It may not have been the original vision, but I feel its a better card thanks to other peoples involvement.

[52ravens]

Three more cards to take a look at  ;D

 

[reall]

Beautiful! I likeidea & texture used here!:) This looks like one of better photomanipulated decks I've sen recently!:)

Congratson great job!:) hope to see it published soon!:)

[Page of Ghosts]

It might have felt more comfortable to get help from those forum members that contributed the most in the thread previously (I enjoyed reading it so I noticed a few that were here a lot) but I think on your own the cards seem to become more... something. I'm getting more out of them recently at least! Your research might have improved and/or you're just getting better at it as you go, which I think happens to most people. I think it's great to get them done and review them all when you have the amount of cards you want - you can think of how they fit in with your theme or any world you have imagined, how they work for storytelling (tarot is supposed to be good for that!) and how they've changed from your first to last cards. And of course have a look at that stiffness/aloof thing I mentioned and see if you have some other ideas since you've noticed it too.

 

I don't think it's bad to have some cards like that, as long as they're not too many, and other qualities could mitigate that for a lot of people. The Paulina Tarot by Paulina Cassidy was her first tarot deck and I'm a big fan of it, but compared to the Joie de Vivre that came out a few years later the Paulina has a lot more "characters just standing around"-cards than the newer Joie. Her artwork is so charming and detailed (to others it becomes too busy in the Paulina actually) that I can forgive or look aside from the fact that I like my cards more energetic all around ;) I just have to rely a bit less on their movement and more on other things when I use it.

 

I understand that you worry about readers recognising the cards and seeing traditional meanings in your images, but personally I think it's so interesting to see what the artist themselves finds profound about the cards and read about that in the LWB or guidebook, even if they've chosen to let someone else write it that person will find so many cool things. From what I remember you're not a tarot reader yourself or super passionate about tarot before you began designing these cards, so maybe sitting with what drew you to choose tarot cards for your project could be a good idea? What do/did you find interesting about tarot as someone not familiar with it, and what do you hope to bring to the tarot table with your deck? Not everyone wants to revolutionise what tarot can be and that's ok, but with all the tarot decks on the market I don't think it's a bad idea to ponder what you have to offer and how it's different or not from what already exists. The RWS has been done in so many different ways so a straight up clone is something that wouldn't be needed imo, which is why my own project is a personal endeavour instead of a commercial one, for example. That's just me though ;) Someone else might have no problem with selling such a deck so just because something has been done before doesn't mean it's a bad idea to give it a shot yourself.

[52ravens]

Thank you Page of Ghosts[/member] that really helps. I think finishing the artwork it step one, then review and rework where needed  8)

 

Here are three for cards, with the start of the remaining suit and the final count down of remaining cards

 

[Page of Ghosts]

Sounds good! Just don't rush it ;)