Opinions on the artwork for new deck please!

[52ravens]

Three more cards to take a look at, please let me know your thoughts  ;)

 

[HOLMES]

the last 3 swords card.

 

interesting take on the 3 of swords and 4 of swords..

 

that smile in the 5th card gave me an idea..

how about instead of the people walking away,, they are bowing/kneeling  to her,, and she is looking away smiling,, I know it isn't a traditional 5 of swords image, but the smile changes the energy of the card. (and it is 2018 now so we can play with the energies )

[52ravens]

HOLMES[/member] - thanks for commenting. Yes, kneeling might work, there is something about this card that doesn't sit right with me, it was one I wanted to come back to. I'll keep your idea in mind 8)

[HOLMES]

wow thanks for keeping an open mind to input.

 

as I sat there watching tv thinking of what to say to you,, i thought about the deck of dreamers that was worked on in the 2000s by ethan petty..

the magican first had a crazy cokey look to him which i just adored. he later changed it for he wanted his artwork to look better , i admit the magican face look better but i still loved the cokey one eye squint of the magican before hand for it brought a new energy to the deck.

 

as i looked at the image perhaps the lady in the 5 of swords belongs another a differnt card, all i know though is she is an awesome image , so if you must change something about the card,, please dont' change her :).

 

[52ravens]

Hey all - A little delayed but here are the next 3 card, please let me know your thought and if you feel a connection to the meanings  ;)

 

[Saturn Celeste]

Your 6 of Swords is beautiful!!  The 7 of Swords is actually the thief card so perhaps she can be more stealthy?  And the pink throws me off; again, stealing is the key.  8 of Swords is great too!

[trzes]

Your cards are simply beautiful, 52Ravens!

[Ratty]

I'm new to the forum, and first I'd just like to say how impressed I am with your artwork. As others have said, the symbolism sometimes leaves a bit to be desired, but occasionally I like it even when you've done something really new to me, like your two and ten of pentacles. The seven of pentacles on the other hand didn't work as to me harvesting is a later stage and there needs to be a feeling of impatient self-control while waiting. Nevertheless it's great that you are trying a few newer things.

 

I thought I'd comment a little on the swords as that's what you've reached.

 

Ace: Love it.

Two: Put back the RWS crescent moon, please. What did you say the deck name was again?

Three: The figure in the background does nothing and needs to go. This is a suit of power. If you want to humanise the card, show a hand plunging one of the swords into the heart.

Four: She shouldn't look dead and she shouldn't look asleep. She's introspecting, thinking about trials past and visualising the fight to come.

Five: Victory and defeat in battle are temporary and illusory for a sword. There's always going to be another one. Triumph and Disaster – two imposters Kipling called them. So I'm not too keen on the smile.

Six: Nice

Seven: This card is about a surreptitious change of control. As the woman here seems neither to be stealing nor guarding, I'm at a loss as to what she is doing.

Eight: This has narrowed down the interpretation a little, as she's both lying down and totally hemmed in. But I'm comfortable with that. See what others think.

 

One final comment if I may. I liked your original Fool. If you make it card 22 rather than zero, it becomes the Fool at the end of her journey arriving back at the start, looking out over the places she has been, having learned how little she knows. Sometimes we forget the wise old Fool, but there's no Fool like an old Fool. I like the idea of including both versions, giving the reader options.

 

[52ravens]

SaturnCeleste[/member] - thank you for your thoughts on the meanings. For the seven I tried to make it look like she was stealing the swords from the tent covered by smoke, but it was a stretch haha, I'll take another look at it I wasn't completely happy with this one.

 

trzes[/member] - thank you  ;D

 

Ratty[/member] - Thank you for the awesome input, I'll make some changes with your advice in mind. I like the idea of the hand forcing the sword into the sand for three of swords. The fool at the end of the jurney is also a great idea, it might a little something extra to the deck, I'll have to check pricing for an additional card but its something to think about.

 

Thanks for all the input, it really does help to hear how the cards sit with you all, I'll be making some changes but here are three more cards to keep the forum flowing :D

 

[Ratty]

9S: Nine of swords is always my least favourite card. In general I think sword cards get a bum rap, but that nine deserves it all and more. Loss, grief, worry, nightmare, self-loathing, isolation. But it's all in your head, the card's apologists will tell you. Worry over nothing. So what? The worry is very real and can lead to depression and self-destructive behaviour. I'm absolutely biased when it comes this card. Give me the ten any day of the week; the Devil, the Tower, Death, anything but the nine of swords. It is impossible to exaggerate the negative vibes of this card for me. Now look at the woman on your card. I get nothing.

 

10S: I like it. The obscuring of something through the window is a nice touch.

 

PS: Pretty, but wishy-washy. What are you trying to say? I can't see it. All art is about saying something. You see a couple of little kids playing with guns they can't even hold properly – that's a message. The suit of swords has many associations: power, challenge, communication, rationality and judgement. I suggest you pick one. What would a novice learning, or even playing with, an aspect of one of these themes look like? A girl pointing her sword in challenge at a grown and armoured woman? A child pronouncing judgement in a law court (that wouldn't fit with your theme, but I'm just trying to spark ideas). A girl forcing someone to accept a message at swordpoint. Obviously you have to get a sword in there somewhere. Sorry, but I think yet another generic woman in a glade is a wasted opportunity.

 

[Page of Ghosts]

I have to agree with Ratty on the 9 of Swords, it just looks like at worst she's thinking very hard about an issue, not the anguish and overthinking and pain I experience from this card usually. Your art features a lot of very pretty women and intense expressions, if you wanted to do one for this card, can be kind of ugly. Don't be afraid to go there! It could bring it up a notch or two. Another thing is that the teal colour is very pretty and soothing so I think that also dulls and softens this card. Changing this could help too.

 

 

[ToadieOdie]

9S: Nine of swords is always my least favourite card. In general I think sword cards get a bum rap, but that nine deserves it all and more. Loss, grief, worry, nightmare, self-loathing, isolation. But it's all in your head, the card's apologists will tell you. Worry over nothing. So what? The worry is very real and can lead to depression and self-destructive behaviour. I'm absolutely biased when it comes this card. Give me the ten any day of the week; the Devil, the Tower, Death, anything but the nine of swords. It is impossible to exaggerate the negative vibes of this card for me. Now look at the woman on your card. I get nothing.

 

 

 

I have to agree with Ratty on the 9 of Swords, it just looks like at worst she's thinking very hard about an issue, not the anguish and overthinking and pain I experience from this card usually. Your art features a lot of very pretty women and intense expressions, if you wanted to do one for this card, can be kind of ugly. Don't be afraid to go there! It could bring it up a notch or two. Another thing is that the teal colour is very pretty and soothing so I think that also dulls and softens this card. Changing this could help too.

 

 

I agree. I strongly associate with the Nine of Swords. Well... I associate with the Swords suit in general, but Nine especially. In here, she looks like she's napping peacfully. That's not working for this card. As a migraine sufferer, teal isn't a friendly color so I don't mind it being there but it could be darker. This card isn't just the things that eats at your mind and soul, but it's what keeps you up at night. It's what creeps in the shadows and haunts you. It lurks. Whispers in your heart and worms in your ear.

 

 

As Page of Ghosts suggests, in many ways 10S brings a sort of relief from 9S but in order to show that in 10S, you need to depict the torment in 9S first.

 

 

Oh, also forgot! I like how in your Page of Swords it looks like she is about to start dancing with her sword. Not sure if that's what you intended, but sword dancing is a thing and I like it here.

[Page of Ghosts]

I wasn't the one who said that about the 10 of Swords after the 9, but I agree with it. The 10 is not very fun either, but at least it's over! That's an improvement over the 9 which is just overall a real bad time. It's interesting how we react differently to colours, but good to know I'm not the only one who thinks it's overall a too soft impression with the pastel teal in the 9.

 

Personally I like a little blood in my 10 of Swords cards so I don't have much to complain about for that card. It's a dreary scene but the light in the window offers some hope.

 

For me I get the same feel from your Page as I've unfortunately gotten from several of your other cards previously. It's too vague for me to grasp onto much. I wonder if the cards I feel that way about are cards you have a hard time connecting with and/or understanding and that somehow comes through in the art and composition of the scene. I wasn't 100% sold on your original Fool but it did give me a lot to think about and a lot of ideas. That's not the case with this one, sadly. The texture also looks very blurry so I have a hard time understanding what's going on. Is it raining or something?

[ToadieOdie]

 

I wasn't the one who said that about the 10 of Swords after the 9, but I agree with it. The 10 is not very fun either, but at least it's over! That's an improvement over the 9 which is just overall a real bad time. It's interesting how we react differently to colours, but good to know I'm not the only one who thinks it's overall a too soft impression with the pastel teal in the 9.

 

 

 

I'm sorry I misquoted! Reading back through the thread it was Ratty that was talking about taking the 10S over the 9S any day of the week. I picked up the implied sense of relief that something was over in that when it was lumped in with Death, Tower, and Devil cards.

 

 

And yes, colors effect everyone differently so I think it's shades that play the most important role in conveying tone. Lighter and brighter to impart lighter and brighter emotions for example. You want the opposite for the other direction. You can play around with this using blurring effects. Sharper, crisper lines create a different tone using dark colors than it does using dark blurry lines.

 

 

So I think with the 9S and 10S the blurring that is there works, but maybe less blurring effects for the Page of Swords. The image there feels like it should be a happier card that what it is. It may be that the blurring is fine, but the colors chosen to blur with are too dark. Pages represent children and those with a heart of a child. I wouldn't expect to find such darkness in the heart of a child, especially since not all of your cards are this dark.

[Ratty]

It's 5 in the morning here and I'm typing. Last night I had a few drinks, and then I did something dumb: I posted something critical on the forum. I know that I get too judgemental when I've had a couple. So I woke up in bed at half-past four, thinking: what did I write?! I was way too harsh. I forgot to mention that I liked the fan effect. And couldn't I have been nicer about the page?

 

I swear it took me ten minutes before I sussed I was re-enacting nine of swords. Karma's a b****. Did I mention 9 is also regret?

[ToadieOdie]

It's 5 in the morning here and I'm typing. Last night I had a few drinks, and then I did something dumb: I posted something critical on the forum. I know that I get too judgemental when I've had a couple. So I woke up in bed at half-past four, thinking: what did I write?! I was way too harsh. I forgot to mention that I liked the fan effect. And couldn't I have been nicer about the page?

 

I swear it took me ten minutes before I sussed I was re-enacting nine of swords. Karma's a b****. Did I mention 9 is also regret?

 

 

 

<3 The fanning of the swords in the 9S is nice isn't it? I'm glad you pointed that out. I wish I had noticed it sooner. I think it's important to point out the things you like and the parts you think are working in a piece along with the parts that aren't working for you. I think someone mentioned the window being a nice touch in the 10S and I agree with that as well.

 

[52ravens]

Ratty[/member] - Page of Ghosts[/member] - ToadieOdie[/member]

 

Thank you all for the great discussion, it is so helpfully to me and pushes the design in a way I know makes sense once you guys talk about parts that I simply overlook. I'm so close to finishing the full deck that I'll get that done first and then go back over them for edits.  ;)

 

I posted something critical on the forum

 

Thats totally ok  ;D This is what I'm looking for, the more opinions I can get (good or bad) the better it will be for the final design of the cards. I really do believe that this is the only way to work. As an artist, I'll never please everyone, its not possible, but being judgemental and critical about the artwork, layout and symbolism is fine by me. I can take it, I'm a big boy now  8)

 

<3

[52ravens]

Hello, today I have the final 3 cards from my deck, let me know your thoughts.

 

I'll start going back over the swords cards with your ideas in mind  ;D

 

[Page of Ghosts]

The Knight is a little so-so for me. Looks sort of like she's ready to run off in a rush, but I get an impression she could also be holding on for dear life rather than the seasoned and brash warrior I personally associate this card with. Maybe that could be an interesting approach for this card still? The sword she's holding looks more like some type of staff to me than a sword  ???

 

The Queen is a miss for me. A beautiful scene, but I'm not sure I can relate to this Queen as one who gently walks through a forest? She might be my favourite queen and I have some very particular ideas for her (sad! rugged! a badass! gone through a lot of painful stuff but lived through it! might be a little off-putting or too direct because of that!) so I'm aware that could be why I'm not a big fan ;)

 

The King is not someone who's come up in a lot of readings for me so I don't know him too well. He does have a scary, intimidating aura to him and this one looks like she's ready to cut you down, both figutatively and literally. I don't think she's too far off, maybe others have some more specific critique or input?

[Ratty]

The knight seems a little small relative to her horse. I think it makes her look less powerful than she should.

The queen. Rather than just give the same comment as with the page, oh no not another woman in a glade, I'll try and make some more concrete suggestions. The queen could be a reflection of the Justice card. Especially if you took someone's comment to heart about returning Justice's sword. Obviously not the wings and scales, but the red dress and the attitude. I'll also suggest that all queens wear garlands to distinguish themselves. IIRC you didn't like using crowns.

The King herself is okay. I like the black. For me the sword is too small. Give her a greatsword, a two-handed monster to lean on: point on the ground and chin-high hilt. She needs to look like she can use it, though. The yellow of the moon isn't working for me, so how about a full blood moon in the background casting a red glint on the scene.

[52ravens]

Thank you Page of Ghosts[/member] and Ratty[/member] for all you're help, I'm now going to go over the swords suits with all your comments in mind, watch this space ;D

[Saskia]

Hi Raven52, I tried to look up your work on Facebook but got a message that the content is removed. Do you have a site where I could see your cards? I very much like your first card, the Fool, and would like to see more. Do you have a schedule for when you're planning to launch? Thanks and good luck!

[Jo Ann]

These cards are really nice! I don't have the patience to do a deck. You are so lucky to be so creative.

[katrinka]

On 1/29/2018 at 11:26 AM, 52ravens said:

HEY! I'm hoping that there isn't anything wrong with the previous three and the silence isn't because you're all bored with the project haha

 

So here are the next 3, please let me know if there are any glaring issues  😉

 

Thanks for all the help

 

Very belatedly playing catch-up, and I may be too late.
But pouring into a body of water is more of a Star thing. Temperance pours from one vessel to another. Watering the wine: hence the name Temperance.

[katrinka]

Also, Temperance should be an angel. But that might not work here, it could come off like a Victoria's Secret ad. "Flirty tomato red rayon-spandex dress ON SALE $59.99!"

The Devil should have a goat skull rather than a cow. And lose the tiered ruffles. This is a perfect opportunity to get Lilith into the deck! Talons, please.

The second version of the Tower is good. The Star doesn't do anything for me, though.

There's a Star, and a lady who is just there, not really doing anything. That's a problem with a lot of theme decks, There's a pagan Lenormand with what one blogger called "a pagan chorus line" on every card, not serving any purpose. Lenormand uses very stark single images, though. With Tarot, you can have a lot more going on visually. I think the image originally intended for Temperance could work for this one.

 

The Moon is OK. The clouds/fog get the idea across that you can't really see that well, the eye can be fooled. I'd like to see more of a duality with this one: dog-wolf, two towers. But it still works.

The Sun should have a little girl.

I like the concept for that last Judgement card. But going from "a trumpet blast that raises the dead" to "rain/shine" is a huge loss of magnitude! Maybe the bottom figure could be shrouded instead of carrying an umbrella? I understand that it's meant as an inoffensive deck that people can use anyplace - no nudes, no gore - but I think it's possible to water things down a bit too much. Go ahead and acknowledge death. It's part of nature and belongs in a witchy deck.

The 5 of Wand gets the concept of the card across - but sleeveless gowns in the snow, and for an activity like that? (I'm not picking on you, BTW. I once painted a snake on an ice floe. I knew better, but I wasn't thinking. )

That second 6 of Wands is awesome. 🙂

The 7 though - she's not fighting off anything. It's more like she set up some tiki torches and she's asking the viewer whether the bar or the snack table would be better in that spot. She's not embattled.

9 of Wands and 10 of Wands also seem too comfortable. Carrying a burden of big sticks isn't that much of a struggle when you're seated on a horse. Crowley relates that one to oppression and restriction, so the wide open spaces are a contradiction, too.

The lizards one sometimes sees on King of Wands cards are salamanders, to represent the fire element. So you might want to change the lizard on that one, and maybe have it positioned where it isn't blocking the way. The King of Wands kind of owns that element. 😉

Just a suggestion: In the best Knight of Cups images, IMHO, the Knight isn't grasping the cup. It almost floats on its own, and he supports it with his hand and guides his horse in the direction the cup goes. It's a nice visual representation of following your heart:



 

Edited June 9, 2019 by katrinka