Preferred Method For Playing Cards?

[Raggydoll]

28 minutes ago, akiva said:

Wow you're really knowledgeable! Cartomantic history is really fascinating.

 

Regarding Madame Recamier and Catherine, they're both attributed to paysans divination in Russia, even though neither of them actually practiced it! 😯 As far as I know they were French socialites, I'm not sure how their names became advertising gimmicks.

Mamsell Arfvidsson mostly used coffee grounds, but I do think it is plausible that she also used cards. Though I strongly doubt that she is behind all the methods that has her name on them 🤣

[akiva]

8 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Mamsell Arfvidsson mostly used coffee grounds, but I do think it is plausible that she also used cards. Though I strongly doubt that she is behind all the methods that has her name on them 🤣

She'd of been a really busy woman! 😉 Though without the internet, etc, you've got to fill your time some how! 🤣

[Scandinavianhermit]

4 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I don't still have Sibyllans hemligheter, would it be possible for you to show me some of those methods?

I don't own a personal copy, and lost some of my interest when I switched to tarot, but, when I recover from my severe cough, I may take a look at our local public library. Not all of these methods became equally popular. Since Sibyllans hemligheter is almost 120 years old, and some of its sources another 100 years older, there's no longer any copyright.

[Scandinavianhermit]

4 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

Mamsell Arfvidsson mostly used coffee grounds, but I do think it is plausible that she also used cards. Though I strongly doubt that she is behind all the methods that has her name on them 🤣

Mlle Arfvidsson has been used posthumously as a selling device, just as Mlle Lenormand, Napoleon and Marie Laveau.

[Raggydoll]

8 minutes ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I don't own a personal copy, and lost some of my interest when I switched to tarot, but, when I recover from my severe cough, I may take a look at our local public library. Not all of these methods became equally popular. Since Sibyllans hemligheter is almost 120 years old, and some of its sources another 100 years older, there's no longer any copyright.

I hope your cough gets better soon, it really is that season of the year! 

[Scandinavianhermit]

34 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

I hope your cough gets better soon, it really is that season of the year! 

Aye. From what I hear, there are three or four respiratory illnesses circulating among the general population.

 

Take care in your cold weather. Minus 45° sounds too cold for most people's taste. I'm happy we have only minus 11° down here in the temperate south.

[Raggydoll]

So I noticed something when comparing Swedish systems, and it seems to be a hallmark of the earlier traditions. Four sources have Ace of Clubs as House or the Home. (The 4 sources are: the 24 card method that dates from the late 1700s; the deck that dates from the late 1700s; the 52 card method that is from 1700-1800s and the 1930s ‘Finngubbens spåkort’ deck). These decks/systems do not agree on all other cards, but some overlap more than the others.
 

I found it interesting that Ace of Clubs is House, because I have not seen that in other systems. The one that comes the closest, that I’m aware of, is the Russian method where ace of clubs can be a fancy apartment or an official building. So there is a house connection but I don’t think it represents one’s own home.

 

It is probably worth noting that in Sweden, our word for clubs is the equivalent of Clover. So our associations tend to differ from the French ones. It can be associated with money and/or with negativity, much like in Germany.  
 

I am interested to hear if anyone is familiar with other, older, systems that use Ace of Clubs as House/One’s own home. 

(Some blurry screenshots just to show what I mean  )

[Sar]

18 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I mentioned the oldest Swedish (24 card) one (attested in 1791) above, but, as @Raggydoll says, there exist several parallel Swedish systems of cartomancy, now threatened by extinction because of the impact from US Games, Lo Scarabeo and Grimaud.

As a Norwegian I am very interested in these. 

[akiva]

7 minutes ago, Sar said:

As a Norwegian I am very interested in these. 

Do you know of any traditional Norwegian cartomancy methods? 😁

[Raggydoll]

Just now, Sar said:

As a Norwegian I am very interested in these. 

This Swedish book that ScandinavianHermit told us about is available online and it has a few different methods

https://runeberg.org/bonnierma/1915/0971.html

 

There is also this book :
https://litteraturbanken.se/författare/Anonym/titlar/TrefnadensKälla/sida/4/faksimil

Some Swedish keywords can also be found on this 1930s deck

https://kartomanti.wordpress.com/2015/04/04/finngubbens-spakort/

I don’t think any of the other older sources are available online. If I can think of any I will share them here. 
 

One other interesting thing about the older Swedish tradition is that the sevens can represents the Thoughts of the Queen (of the respective suit). It’s in the same way that the knights are the thoughts of the king.
 

This is visible in the deck from the late 1700s and it is also in the 52 card method that is ascribed to Mlle Arfvidsson.

 

Below you can see that some of the sevens have double meanings. They can either represents the Lady’s thoughts or a separate theme. For example, the seven of spades is also Falseness; the 7 of clubs it Arguments etc. These 4 cards reflect the 52 card method very closely for most of the cards, some also align with the 24 card method which also dates from the end of the 1700s.
 

So that particular time period is an interesting one, I think.  

 

 

[Sar]

1 hour ago, akiva said:

Do you know of any traditional Norwegian cartomancy methods? 😁

No cartomancy method, but I learned to read coffee and tea leaves left overs from an elder neighbour back home, who was a Norwegian Traveller. 

[akiva]

15 minutes ago, Sar said:

No cartomancy method, but I learned to read coffee and tea leaves left overs from an elder neighbour back home, who was a Norwegian Traveller. 

Well that's really cool in it's own right 😁☕️

[Sar]

1 minute ago, akiva said:

Well that's really cool in it's own right 😁☕️

Agreed, I use it as a party trick. Her method is very accurate and spesific. 

[Scandinavianhermit]

On 1/4/2024 at 6:07 PM, Raggydoll said:

And on the 6 of spades there are two illustrations (the card is double ended) with one depicting a 'bondfångare' and the other a little child in front of a Pro Patria building. This aligns somewhat with the meanings from Finngubben (Upright: Sad journey. Unpleasant meeting. Reversed: Miserable road). But it is probably mostly a system on own. 

I wonder which aspect of Pro Patria's activity is alluded to? They have given maternity care to unmarried mothers since at least the 1770s. Could it be the social stigma of unmarried motherhood in the past?

[Raggydoll]

1 hour ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I wonder which aspect of Pro Patria's activity is alluded to? They have given maternity care to unmarried mothers since at least the 1770s. Could it be the social stigma of unmarried motherhood in the past?

I take it to refer to charity (needing charity) and hardships. Two common keywords for this card is Sad road and Unpleasant meeting. I think the Pro Patria refers to the former, and the Bondfångare refers to the latter. ‘Sad road’ could be like a sad fate in general or some challenges along the way. 
 

I do plan on journaling with this deck in the near future, not only to understand it better, but also to explore the complexities of the cards with the goal of developing a method/keywords that works well for contemporary readings.