Don't Hate Me, I had to Buy It...

[Wyrdkiss]

I purchased a tarot deck composed entirely of AI artwork.

 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1391406702/shade-tarot-deck-by-lunart-design-tarot?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_a-home_and_living-spirituality_and_religion-divination_tools-tarot&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjwseSoBhBXEiwA9iZtxn-K9yyYF38NSArawx9D1oNmplL7aYzlx09fIwoIxWT7AQCJuicMVxoCQ1gQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_12570712527_123240199087_507439103183_aud-1408996296215:pla-308022796295_c__1391406702_12768591&utm_custom2=12570712527&gclid=CjwKCAjwseSoBhBXEiwA9iZtxn-K9yyYF38NSArawx9D1oNmplL7aYzlx09fIwoIxWT7AQCJuicMVxoCQ1gQAvD_BwE

 

It is black and white and detailed information about the symbols, meanings and archetypes within the RWS style were fed to the 

program.

 

There are two to choose from by this creator, and the full color more vibrant designed deck felt, "too AI" for me. Beautiful, but very glossy.

 

Yet there is something compelling to me about the Shade. I feel as if when assessing it I will be taking a walk through the past as well as

a glimpse into the future.

 

If nothing else, I am a collector and it is certainly a conversation piece.  Let's here how you feel about this both AI art in tarot and this particular deck (what you can see of it).

Added: Low quality video here but this is indeed a flip through of the pack:  

The only one I saw. Thanks. I look forward to your responses. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Wyrdkiss

[Misterei]

@Wyrdkiss I will never hate you ... but I will pray that you recover your soul from the demon AI who's seized it!

[Raggydoll]

That style doesn’t appeal to me. I personally don’t think it is well done. 
 

Regarding AI art in general… well, I don’t think that anyone who types in keywords in a program is doing art. It’s like if I typed in “Write me a good poem about love. Add rain and doves and passion”. That would not make me a poet. In fact, if I had done that back in school, and handed it in as a piece of my own work, I would have been a fraud and could have gotten expelled. The same would have been true if I had handed in AI art as my own. 

Now, I am aware that some digital artists use AI as part of their process, and I can’t say I have a general opinion on that. It all depends.
 

I think it’s really problematic the way many of these programs source images and I also think it’s absolutely crazy that big companies chose to save money with AI instead of hiring real people. 
 

I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that people can look at something and tell that it looks like AI. There is something about the very nature of it that stands out. It’s not just the awful hands or weird anatomy, but to me it also has this vacant energy. 
 

I also don’t think that a deck with AI images should cost the same as a deck with traditional art. That’s just ridiculous. 

And finally, I know that many people say that AI is the only way that they can do art and that they simply aren’t talented enough on their own or that they have a physical disability etc. This actually makes me angry to hear. Art is not a talent, it’s the same as with everything else, aka ‘practice make progress’. If you want to learn art then do the work! Having a disability does not mean you can’t create fabulous art. It might mean you can’t create the exact art that you envisioned, or that you can’t use certain techniques. But take a look at mouth and foot painters. Art is possible for everyone! 
 

And not every art style needs to be realism. There is so much good stuff out there, diversity rocks! 
 

[DanielJUK]

O.M.G totally judging @Wyrdkiss 😂

Just kidding, I am as ever non-judgemental moderator.

 

Here is the big questions though, do you like it? does it read well? That is the most important personal deck bit.

Personally, as well as what @Raggydoll said, I have feelings about AI Art where I feel it's highly unethical. It just crawls across pictures and art and takes fragments it finds. Some of the AI sites now have web crawlers which harvest images and text across the net. On this site, we are trying to stop AI crawlers from browsing through our wonderful posts in the community. Many other sites are doing the same, trying to block them. We welcome the search engine ones but not the ones that reuse our content for their own content. That is the issue for me, I find it unethical in how it's sourced. Whose art went into those card images? Do they even know?

I can't say I won't ever buy an AI deck but right now it's not for me.

[Raggydoll]

Yes, Dan is right. It was only recently when Baba studio had images from their Victorian romantic tarot stolen by a deck creator who used AI. It’s not okay and we have not seen the end of it all. The thefts will keep happening.
 

It’s not about me judging you @Wyrdkiss, I’m taking about the AI art industry in itself. Personally, I wouldn’t want to sponsor it, but that’s me. You do you! 

[gregory]

56 minutes ago, DanielJUK said:

 

Here is the big questions though, do you like it? does it read well? That is the most important personal deck bit.

Personally, as well as what @Raggydoll said, I have feelings about AI Art where I feel it's highly unethical. It just crawls across pictures and art and takes fragments it finds. Some of the AI sites now have web crawlers which harvest images and text across the net. On this site, we are trying to stop AI crawlers from browsing through our wonderful posts in the community. Many other sites are doing the same, trying to block them. We welcome the search engine ones but not the ones that reuse our content for their own content. That is the issue for me, I find it unethical in how it's sourced. Whose art went into those card images? Do they even know?

I can't say I won't ever buy an AI deck but right now it's not for me.

I am absolutely against using AI for piracy. And I wonder about how it is done. I'm not wild about "make me a priestess sitting between two pillars adn give her a book."

 

BUT - I am with Daniel on DOES IT WORK. If the art was "original" with the creator and it works - to each their own. I like the look of it, but I don't think I'd buy at that price,

[Arania]

Interesting deck. If I'd not have so many and more money I would probably get it.

 

I love many of the new AI decks, they don't look any more artificial than photoshopping or other computer arts. The ones I have are full of energy and dreams and possibilities. Currently, me and my housemate both use AI to create new ones. Also working on more traditional stuff but we both want to try out the new medium. And it gets very fascinating results.

 

I personally get angry at people thinking AI is just "some keywords" because it is not. It can take a long time to get what you want, and most of the time you have to use another program to finalize it anyway, or have a base image to start from. You can avoid web sourced images altogether if you chose to. You are best off searching your own base images and import them. If creators grab images that way it is no different than what's happened before.

 

There need to be laws regarding the way AI works, but you can easily avoid working with stolen images.

[Arania]

56 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Yes, Dan is right. It was only recently when Baba studio had images from their Victorian romantic tarot stolen by a deck creator who used AI. It’s not okay and we have not seen the end of it all. The thefts will keep happening.
 

Which deck has the stolen images? I hadn't heard about this.

[DanielJUK]

I'm not sure about that exact issue, but AI works with fragments. So the pictures and writings it gives as outputs are made up of all the fragments it has collected and then gives you the output or answer that it predicts you would most want to hear. Some artists and authors have found fragments of their work appearing in the outputs. I suspect we will see lawsuits about this in future because they basically have collected everything they can find. For example authors in the UK have recently been shocked to find out their book text has been crawled through for the words, renowned artists similarly so 😞

[Raggydoll]

54 minutes ago, Arania said:

Which deck has the stolen images? I hadn't heard about this.

I don’t remember the name of the AI deck but it happened fairly recently. It was talked about on Facebook, Karen Mahony shared the whole drama there. I’m not on facebook but two friends of mine has talked about it and I’ve also been shown some of Karen’s posts on it. She was incredibly upset, as to be expected. It took a lot of communication back and forth before the AI deck creator took down his Kickstarter campaign. He didn’t think it was a problem to feed the AI with someone else’s deck images, and he even wanted baba studio to help endorse the deck (!). I’m sure it’s not the last time such a project is launched. 

[Raggydoll]

1 hour ago, Arania said:

Interesting deck. If I'd not have so many and more money I would probably get it.

 

I love many of the new AI decks, they don't look any more artificial than photoshopping or other computer arts. The ones I have are full of energy and dreams and possibilities. Currently, me and my housemate both use AI to create new ones. Also working on more traditional stuff but we both want to try out the new medium. And it gets very fascinating results.

 

I personally get angry at people thinking AI is just "some keywords" because it is not. It can take a long time to get what you want, and most of the time you have to use another program to finalize it anyway, or have a base image to start from. You can avoid web sourced images altogether if you chose to. You are best off searching your own base images and import them. If creators grab images that way it is no different than what's happened before.

 

There need to be laws regarding the way AI works, but you can easily avoid working with stolen images.

But even if there is a lot of work with describing what you want - then to me that is basically the same as hiring an artist. You share your vision in great detail and then they execute it, and you give input, and stuff is edited etc. My point is that this process doesn’t make you the artist. You’re not the one creating the art. 

[Wyrdkiss]

I think @Ariana is onto why I primarily picked this deck up.

"fascinating results."

 

There were a few cards that really caught my eye. This is for my collection to share in the totality of the experience, my study. And to truly be able to speak to how I feel about the whole movement.  Something to show colleagues and friends, discuss, and  compare.  I would never read an AI deck with a client. That's clarification I need to share that I kind of forgot to mention initially.

 

I'm a curious person, learn by doing and seeing, and love the very gothic vibe. I'm going to review it -- based on one assessment online, it may be very  lazily and cheaply produced (Oh the irony LOL).

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Wyrdkiss

[Arania]

5 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

But even if there is a lot of work with describing what you want - then to me that is basically the same as hiring an artist. You share your vision in great detail and then they execute it, and you give input, and stuff is edited etc. My point is that this process doesn’t make you the artist. You’re not the one creating the art. 

Yeah but it does not cost as much, and that is the point. Only people with the means for it can hire artists.

[Arania]

5 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I don’t remember the name of the AI deck but it happened fairly recently. It was talked about on Facebook, Karen Mahony shared the whole drama there. I’m not on facebook but two friends of mine has talked about it and I’ve also been shown some of Karen’s posts on it. She was incredibly upset, as to be expected. It took a lot of communication back and forth before the AI deck creator took down his Kickstarter campaign. He didn’t think it was a problem to feed the AI with someone else’s deck images, and he even wanted baba studio to help endorse the deck (!). I’m sure it’s not the last time such a project is launched. 

Ok that's just awful stupidity or arrogance or both. I would have thought the main problem would be AI just grabbing images from wherever and make something new out of it without people deliberately deciding to do so. Deliberately altering images and then claiming them as their own is just unbelievable.

[Wyrdkiss]

Shade Tarot arrived, an early birthday gift to myself.   

Packaging was lovely, and a personal note from the studio team.

 

Card stock slightly below average by just a bit. Certainly not the worst I've encountered, but despite a glossy

coat it will wear faster than some I wager.

 

Tomorrow I'll post what is stunning about the card image interpretations. I'm kind of still chewing on my observation, and wish I still had my squarespace

blog website. There's a lot to talk about.

[Wyrdkiss]

Ok, bit of a report in  -- the cards this deck struggled with were the courts.

Those 16 cards are overly-bland in a lot of tarot releases, but I was assuming this would have more symbolism to it.

 

The card that especially struck me was the 8 of Swords, pictured here.

 

It's frightening how it transmuted the card into an individual wrapped completely in a sheet, as if asleep.  Unlock some tarot depictions,

there appears no way out in this 8.

This may be  a stretch, but is it a message to us to be cautious of our minds threatening us beyond capacity for self preservation?

 

The cards is simply stunning ... and a bit disturbing.

Your take?

 

 

[GreatDane]

OMG the SHADE TAROT is the one I couldn't remember the name of and Gregory found online for me!  Love the moodiness of it.  I can't wait to hear all about it since you HAVE it, Wyrdkiss.  I see what you mean, Wyrdkiss.  I could still read with the card you posted, it's RWS enough for me, but are there others that if the title weren't listed, you think would be hard to read by image?   

 

If you had to do over, would you still have gotten it, Wyrdkiss?

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by GreatDane

[Wyrdkiss]

22 hours ago, GreatDane said:

OMG the SHADE TAROT is the one I couldn't remember the name of and Gregory found online for me!  Love the moodiness of it.  I can't wait to hear all about it since you HAVE it, Wyrdkiss.  I see what you mean, Wyrdkiss.  I could still read with the card you posted, it's RWS enough for me, but are there others that if the title weren't listed, you think would be hard to read by image?   

 

If you had to do over, would you still have gotten it, Wyrdkiss?

 

 

Greetings GreatDane,

 

I think recommending this depends on what the intent is. if  I needed one solid RWS variant to read with , no, this one does not cut it when juxtaposed to others  You can still read the Courts, but you'll need to know the definitions for most. The symbolism just isn't there from what I see. but that is kind of true for the standard RWS too -- the courts always are abstract enough to throw one for a loop. look  at the Hansen Roberts, it is mostly their faces from what I recall.  They are not terribly bare, some are on horses etc., it is just a bit vague in my eyes.

 

So If you are drawn to the deck, it is a cool and fascinating purchase and I did do a pull with it and found it readable and illuminating. But it is just different.  Some of the card are simply stunning. The Sun comes to mind as well.

 

I say go for it if you are curious, want to own one AI deck, or feel compelled. you seem to really dig the vibe, and I do too.

 

If you are seeking just one solid RWS variant, decks like the darkness of Light tarot or the deck of the bastard are better choices.

 

Let us know if you pick it up. I'm glad I did.

[GreatDane]

THANKS for the info, Wyrdkiss!  You did mention cardstock and I am a big shuffler, so....

 

I am not drawn to dark decks really, I just like the foggy vibe, the more of a vague dark vibe.  I had never seen a deck like that before.  

 

I am moving along four decks, as I primarily read with pretty straightforward RWS.  And I read Lenormand WAY more than tarot.  Tarot for me and close friends, Lenormand everyone else.

 

But that kind of haunting foggy moodiness....just seemed unique.  I really appreciate your sharing your thoughts and pix.  

[Saturn Celeste]

On 10/19/2023 at 3:09 PM, Wyrdkiss said:

The card that especially struck me was the 8 of Swords, pictured here.

I do have a problem with that card because they are not swords in the image.  They look more like wands and that would confuse me.  I do like my swords sharp and pointy.  I have taken an interest in AI art because my son has said he'll be using it for his book.  I argued with him in the beginning (same arguments as posted here) but he has his mind set.  We simply can't afford an artist.  But it is awhile away so we'll see what our situation is by the time the book is released.  He might find a real artist in the meantime.  I hope so. 🧑‍🎨

[gregory]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:09 PM, Wyrdkiss said:

Ok, bit of a report in  -- the cards this deck struggled with were the courts.

Those 16 cards are overly-bland in a lot of tarot releases, but I was assuming this would have more symbolism to it.

 

The card that especially struck me was the 8 of Swords, pictured here.

 

It's frightening how it transmuted the card into an individual wrapped completely in a sheet, as if asleep.  Unlock some tarot depictions,

there appears no way out in this 8.

This may be  a stretch, but is it a message to us to be cautious of our minds threatening us beyond capacity for self preservation?

 

The cards is simply stunning ... and a bit disturbing.

Your take?

 

 

 

 

That is an awesome card - it reminds me a bit of the Somnia.

 

[Raggydoll]

6 hours ago, Saturn Celeste said:

I do have a problem with that card because they are not swords in the image.  They look more like wands and that would confuse me.  I do like my swords sharp and pointy.  I have taken an interest in AI art because my son has said he'll be using it for his book.  I argued with him in the beginning (same arguments as posted here) but he has his mind set.  We simply can't afford an artist.  But it is awhile away so we'll see what our situation is by the time the book is released.  He might find a real artist in the meantime.  I hope so. 🧑‍🎨

I agree with you. The image actually makes me think of matchsticks and the figure looks like a straw doll that is about to be set on fire 😅

[Nemia]

Well, AI exists, and we'll have to deal with it. As long as it's used honestly and fairly, without theft and with a declaration that AI was used, I don't see an ethical problem. I find the Shade Tarot interesting and would have loved to back the Habetrot Tarot. 

 

AI is a tool, and it all depends on how a creator uses that tool. Transparency is important, and as tarot buyers, we should insist on it. 

 

The Eight of Swords is deeply disturbing and powerful, and the Swords are easily discernible as swords. The hilts look a bit like Wands, that's true, but they're pointy enough. There is a lack of gravity in the images I have seen that's unworldly, surrealist, and I actually like that. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Nemia

[gregory]

38 minutes ago, Nemia said:

The Eight of Swords is deeply disturbing and powerful, and the Swords are easily discernible as swords. The hilts look a bit like Wands, that's true, but they're pointy enough.

 

Couldn't agree more. It never OCCURRED to me that they weren't swords.

[Raggydoll]

Well, I just asked my hubby what he thought it was, he stared for a while and then said “carved wooden sticks” 😁 I obviously can see the swords now that I know what it is, but at first glance, they didn’t look like swords to me.