Playing Card Associations for Extra Cards?

[coinilius]

The recent thread on 52 Card Lenormand Decks got me thinking again about the GW Deck and how to approach reassigning Playing Card inserts for the extra cards in that deck, to make an extended deck that follows the Lenormand pattern for numbering and card inserts.

 

There are 17 extra cards in the GW deck, compared to the Lenormand:

 

The Rapiers
The Pig
The Eye 
The Roses
The Shepherd
The Amor
The Bride
The Money Safe
The Lion
The Flames on the Hearth
The Broken Glass
The Railroad
The Lightning
The Order
The Wine
The Cats
The Hand in Hand

 

Which is actually 1 more card than is necessary to bring the Lenormand's 36 cards up to a full 52 - the Cross is omitted from the GW deck.  Imagery wise, I feel like there is some crossover between the Order and the Cross (the Order depicts a Maltese Cross shaped medal), while in terms of meaning the Order and the Moon card share similarities (both are about recognition, great honours and fortune), so for the sake of argument I'll remove the Order from consideration for the moment.

 

For the remaining 16 cards, what playing card associations do people think would be appropriate?  The Maybe Lenormand uses most of these extra cards, although it includes the Order, as well as the Sick Bed and Bacchus (which is close enough to the Wine card), while omitting the Bride and the Shepherd.  I'm sure that the creator of the Maybe Lenormand put quite a bit of work into assigning playing cards for these extra cards, but I'm not sure I agree with all of the choices that he made.

[Scandinavianhermit]

Playing cards from Saxony used to depict someone spying on a man and a woman sitting on a bench under a pillar, an owl sitting at the top of the latter on Deuce of Bells. The other deuces are less helpful, because they only involve heraldic matters. The Salzburg pattern used to have Bacchus on Deuce of Acorns, a pig or boar on Deuce of Bells and Cupid on Deuce of Hearts. Deuce of Leaves looks heraldic: A bird with a large flourishing branch in its beak, surrounded by a deer and a unicorn. In these, deuces replace aces. Like the Lenormand, none of these decks were full 52 card decks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy]

Somehow missed this thread. Lenormand is 36 cards and not more. Everything that is more than 36 cards is NOT a Lenormand deck.

[Sar]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:09 AM, coinilius said:

 

 

The Rapiers
The Pig
The Eye 
The Roses
The Shepherd
The Amor
The Bride
The Money Safe
The Lion
The Flames on the Hearth
The Broken Glass
The Railroad
The Lightning
The Order
The Wine
The Cats
The Hand in Hand

 

 

I come to think...

 

The GW is my favorite an all...

 

These cards are actually a little oracle deck in itself. 

[joy]

Hey everyone, moving this to Cartomancy as that is where it should be.

 

Lenormand only consist of 36 cards. However, there are a few expanded versions which are still considered to be Lenormand Decks. Because the deck creators added additional cards to the existing system.

[coinilius]

18 hours ago, joy said:

Hey everyone, moving this to Cartomancy as that is where it should be.

 

Lenormand only consist of 36 cards. However, there are a few expanded versions which are still considered to be Lenormand Decks. Because the deck creators added additional cards to the existing system.

 

Yes, this topic was about how they go about assigning extra card associations when doing 'expanded' Lenormand decks, if they do at all.

[akiva]

3 hours ago, coinilius said:

 

Yes, this topic was about how they go about assigning extra card associations when doing 'expanded' Lenormand decks, if they do at all.

I think they were arbitrary. For instance 9♠️ is Rose, which doesnt really fit with the idea of what the 9♠️ commonly represents in cartomancy. A lot of old methods saw it as disappointment and failure of hopes.

I did find one meaning that assigned the 9♠️ the meaning "devotion", but it was for a 32 card piquet deck, and it was a secondary meaning associated with the keyword "priest". So not really a fit...

 

Chances are the original deck was just drawn on a deck of playing cards to make it into a Lenormand-like oracle, as that was what was available to the creator at the time. The GW isn't really an expanded Lenormand, I'd say it's more likely inspired by Lenormand but took it's own path. 😊

 

One theory could be that it's based off of a folk cartomancy practice that hasn't been recorded, or discovered yet. 

[joy]

6 hours ago, coinilius said:

 

Yes, this topic was about how they go about assigning extra card associations when doing 'expanded' Lenormand decks, if they do at all.

 

Ok I see however the title of your thread is confusing, but I see where you are coming from. However you are talking about the GW deck which is not a Lenormand deck.
For example in that deck #4 is the Key but in Lenormand #4 is the House.

And how would you perform a Lenormand GT with that?

[coinilius]

20 hours ago, joy said:

 

Ok I see however the title of your thread is confusing, but I see where you are coming from. However you are talking about the GW deck which is not a Lenormand deck.
For example in that deck #4 is the Key but in Lenormand #4 is the House.

And how would you perform a Lenormand GT with that?

 Yes, that is why I was talking about the Maybe Lenormand as well which approached this topic with similar subjects.  I was going to add more to it originally but was outside the editing window and then kind of drifted away from the topic...

 

The GW deck uses very different card associations, which do indeed seem kind of random, but it has quite a bit of overlap with the Lenormand and with the Maybe Lenormand, so seems a good start for looking at other symbols and how playing cards could be associated.

 

I don't mind where the topic is, but I did want to look at more expanded Lenormand decks and how they specifically approach the topic of playing card associations.

[coinilius]

For another example of expanded Lenormand decks and how they approach the extra cards - the Gilded Reverie deck has eight extra cards, not counting extra man and woman cards, which extend the numbers beyond 36, but those extra cards don't have any kind of playing card associated with them.