How do you deal with doubts about the Magic of Tarot?

[Drake_Winterfell]

Sometimes I think that we're all just making things up. That we're just imagining the cards are saying things when they're just pretty images on cardboard. What can a deck of cards really say about anything? Are we simply making the general messages fit into our lives because we want to believe the messages are from a divine source? Is there really magic in Tarot? In divination? How do you deal with doubts like these?

 

And sometimes I'm blown away by the accuracy of a tarot reading and think yeah there's definitely something magical about these cards. They do sometimes seem to pick up on things that the reader couldn't have known. It's amazing sometimes how the messages from the cards can be so on point that it makes me think that yes tarot is magical.

 

I haven't been able to keep a strong belief in the magic of tarot consistently though. The doubts always seem to return eventually. Does anyone else have the same experience? How do you deal with your doubts when they appear? 

[DanielJUK]

It's good to have doubts and a critical mind, it's good to question everything 🙂 

I think we all have doubts sometimes but we have to look at the evidence with how it works for us and others we read for.

If it was just some sort of lucky fluke that we read the cards and get the messages, I just don't get how it would have personal details of other people we read for. Also if you read for yourself, things happen that show up in the cards. For me there are just too many amazing coincidences and messages that I didn't know before.

 

One way that I think you have good evidence for tarot is that on the forum we don't know much or anything about the other people we are reading for. Often we do a monthly exchange and only know their username on the forum! If you read for someone face to face, it's possible to cold read and pick up their body language, expressions and also ask them questions? Do you want a reading about love? oh you have split up with your partner? You can almost lead the reading. When I read, I don't read to test the tarot to be honest and this isn't a big deal for me but for some people they really want to prevent cold reading! I will always be amazed that I can read for a random username and get a message or outcome they can relate to.

 

Tarot for me is about if it helps me or not and if it helps others or not. It doesn't matter to me if I believe in it or not or try to make it scientifically tested. I do think it's important to trust in it though, even if you have some doubts. Part of getting confidence with the cards is trusting it.

[Sadewa]

Personally I always have my doubts, and when I read for others I encourage them to take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I think many readers who go pro do this to some extent, you see them declining readings for health or other major issues that require highly professional training to deal with, or making 'entertainment only' statement to prevent legal troubles.

 

The reason why I always have my doubts, and encourage others to do so largely has to do with my perception of Tarot and other oracles. To me, they are a source of information. A mystical one, for sure, but still, a source of information. And like all other sources of information, Tarot and the like requires individual interpretations, and interpretation of some information can lead to 'betrayal' to the original intent, either due to sloppiness or biased perception. We all aspire to do our best in readings, for sure, but we are humans and humans are prone to all sorts of silly mistakes. Reading cards is not a religion that requires blind faith, where doubt is considered an inferior human quality. You have a source of information, you need doubt to keep your own thinking going, and that may just be the best.

[Mister]

3 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said:

I haven't been able to keep a strong belief in the magic of tarot consistently though. The doubts always seem to return eventually. Does anyone else have the same experience? How do you deal with your doubts when they appear? 

 

"Doubt" and "Belief", honest, I do think that both are unnecessary.

It's chains of words serving mostly as a distraction from what is really going on.

To hone once awareness for those moments when both subside and make the most of them, that's the beneficial approach, albeit not the easy one.

However, if someone wanted to have it easy, I truly wonder why one should go for any branch of cartomancy in the first place.

[Raggydoll]

Me personally, I believe in divination as an important and relevant tool to navigating our existence. It’s always been a part of my life. Many things can be used for divination or to read omens, and it’s a matter of discovering which methods suits you and which are most accurate and relevant to you. I don’t really see the tools as being any more magical than other items or phenomena. It doesn’t have to be a tarot deck that I use, I will divine with lots of different techniques and with or without a physical tool. I guess we could turn this into a philosophical discussion about how the world ‘works’ and what each person believes in (I’m an animist, if that is in any way relevant). Though I don’t think that is necessary, what matters is that it works and that it adds value. But I don’t ever worry about whether tarot is magical. I know from experience that it is a good tool for divination for me, and it has its benefits and limitations just like every other tool. That is why I choose different tools for different purposes.

[Drake_Winterfell]

6 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

It's good to have doubts and a critical mind, it's good to question everything 🙂 

I think we all have doubts sometimes but we have to look at the evidence with how it works for us and others we read for.

If it was just some sort of lucky fluke that we read the cards and get the messages, I just don't get how it would have personal details of other people we read for. Also if you read for yourself, things happen that show up in the cards. For me there are just too many amazing coincidences and messages that I didn't know before.

 

One way that I think you have good evidence for tarot is that on the forum we don't know much or anything about the other people we are reading for. Often we do a monthly exchange and only know their username on the forum! If you read for someone face to face, it's possible to cold read and pick up their body language, expressions and also ask them questions? Do you want a reading about love? oh you have split up with your partner? You can almost lead the reading. When I read, I don't read to test the tarot to be honest and this isn't a big deal for me but for some people they really want to prevent cold reading! I will always be amazed that I can read for a random username and get a message or outcome they can relate to.

 

Tarot for me is about if it helps me or not and if it helps others or not. It doesn't matter to me if I believe in it or not or try to make it scientifically tested. I do think it's important to trust in it though, even if you have some doubts. Part of getting confidence with the cards is trusting it.

 

You make some good points here. If it was just some lucky fluke it wouldn't be as effective as much as it is. I've been part of the mo0nthly exchanges and yes, I can get things that the person I'm reading for relates to and I don't have a lot of knowledge about them. I might know a little bit if I've read for them before, but I can read for someone I haven't read for before and still get a message they can relate to. Yeah, trusting it is important.

 

6 hours ago, Sadewa said:

Personally I always have my doubts, and when I read for others I encourage them to take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I think many readers who go pro do this to some extent, you see them declining readings for health or other major issues that require highly professional training to deal with, or making 'entertainment only' statement to prevent legal troubles.

 

The reason why I always have my doubts, and encourage others to do so largely has to do with my perception of Tarot and other oracles. To me, they are a source of information. A mystical one, for sure, but still, a source of information. And like all other sources of information, Tarot and the like requires individual interpretations, and interpretation of some information can lead to 'betrayal' to the original intent, either due to sloppiness or biased perception. We all aspire to do our best in readings, for sure, but we are humans and humans are prone to all sorts of silly mistakes. Reading cards is not a religion that requires blind faith, where doubt is considered an inferior human quality. You have a source of information, you need doubt to keep your own thinking going, and that may just be the best.

 

Thanks for your perspective. The cards do provide information, however it's not always easy to interpret the messages clearly and accurately. You could spend a lifetime learning how to do it well. It's good to remember that your interpretation could be wrong for any number of reasons. 

 

5 hours ago, Mister said:

 

"Doubt" and "Belief", honest, I do think that both are unnecessary.

It's chains of words serving mostly as a distraction from what is really going on.

To hone once awareness for those moments when both subside and make the most of them, that's the beneficial approach, albeit not the easy one.

However, if someone wanted to have it easy, I truly wonder why one should go for any branch of cartomancy in the first place.

 

What do you mean here? Like times when your mind is quiet and you're simply in the present moment? For me I got curious about tarot and I don't care that it's not easy. In fact, I think I'd get bored with it if it was too easy.

 

1 hour ago, Raggydoll said:

Me personally, I believe in divination as an important and relevant tool to navigating our existence. It’s always been a part of my life. Many things can be used for divination or to read omens, and it’s a matter of discovering which methods suits you and which are most accurate and relevant to you. I don’t really see the tools as being any more magical than other items or phenomena. It doesn’t have to be a tarot deck that I use, I will divine with lots of different techniques and with or without a physical tool. I guess we could turn this into a philosophical discussion about how the world ‘works’ and what each person believes in (I’m an animist, if that is in any way relevant). Though I don’t think that is necessary, what matters is that it works and that it adds value. But I don’t ever worry about whether tarot is magical. I know from experience that it is a good tool for divination for me, and it has its benefits and limitations just like every other tool. That is why I choose different tools for different purposes.

 

This is true. I've been learning about astrology recently. As above so below. The planets may influence our lives. But that's not the only form of divination you can do. There's candle divination, runes, watching how birds fly, tea leaves and many more. Now I'm wondering what each form of divination is best used for? What kind of questions does each form of divination answer best?

 

I'm going to keep exploring and learning. Tarot does work for me and it seems to help people. 

 

[fire cat pickles]

I was thinking that "doubt" and "belief" are as necessary as their opposites, "faith" and "science". One cannot have one without the other. Tarot is a little bit of all four, at least it is for me. This is how I reconcile how tarot works when and if I have questions about it, where the "magic" is. "It's all math."

[Mister]

14 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said:

What do you mean here? Like times when your mind is quiet and you're simply in the present moment?

Just that, with the added condition that it happens during a read.

[Misterei]

I think anyone with critical thinking skills confronts this question ... but similar to what @DanielJUK mentions ... I have observed Tarot access "non-local" information too many times to doubt this happens. At a certain point ... trying to find rational materialistic explanations for certain phenomena ... becomes an irrational form of mental gymnastics. There are phenomena for which mystical is the most logical explanation.

 

so we know Tarot can access non-local information. How? Why? Magic? Science?

Who knows?

I have my theories ...

 

4 hours ago, fire cat pickles said:

... This is how I reconcile how tarot works when and if I have questions about it, where the "magic" is. "It's all math."

I'm not sure I understood your meaning here ... but for me [Pythagoean that I am] the universe is all numbers and geometry. And since Tarot's Pip cards speak the language of numbers ... I DO see this as one way Tarot interfaces deeply with realities that humans don't necessarily perceive or comprehend in our normal consciousness.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Misterei

[KiMo]

As others have already said, even in the very short time that I've been reading for, I've seen too many 'coincidences' to not believe that the tarot is a real tool for accessing knowledge that in any other case would be hidden or inaccessible. I'm also a person who takes care to examine things critically, and again others have already said this, but I think that the ability to look at something from all angles is especially valuable when reading tarot. Ultimately though, at a point I had to accept that my own personal experiences with the tarot and the way they made me feel were just not able to be shrugged away anymore. 

 

In case it helps, I thought I would share the advice I received from the cards when I went through a period of doubt. I asked how I could connect again to the magic that I felt disconnected from, I suppose more because I doubted myself than anything else. I basically got the message that when we combine strength of heart and measured thinking, we can start to see how all the threads of the mystical weave together into a bigger tapestry, or web. From here I started to follow threads of which tarot was just one, and seeing how valuable a tool it was but knowing it wasn't a tool to be used in isolation. Dreams led to readings that led to synchronicities that led to realisations that led to direction... So really I learned that part of dispelling my own doubt was understanding that the magic was not just about sitting at the reading table and seeing how the cards reflect life directly, but also how the relationship between the cards and other threads of life and experience form a wider perspective. Seeing how seemingly separate things began to mirror each other made it difficult to deny that something else was going on underneath it all. It likely sounds very obvious to more experienced practitioners than me, but it was an eye opener and marked a big change in my outlook. 

[Drake_Winterfell]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:40 PM, fire cat pickles said:

I was thinking that "doubt" and "belief" are as necessary as their opposites, "faith" and "science". One cannot have one without the other. Tarot is a little bit of all four, at least it is for me. This is how I reconcile how tarot works when and if I have questions about it, where the "magic" is. "It's all math."

 

I don't understand what you mean by it's all math. But yeah it's a mix of all four of those things for me too. (In varying proportions. My current thinking is it's all energy as in E = mc squared. Is that what you mean by it's all math?

 

On 12/4/2023 at 1:12 AM, Misterei said:

I think anyone with critical thinking skills confronts this question ... but similar to what @DanielJUK mentions ... I have observed Tarot access "non-local" information too many times to doubt this happens. At a certain point ... trying to find rational materialistic explanations for certain phenomena ... becomes an irrational form of mental gymnastics. There are phenomena for which mystical is the most logical explanation.

 

so we know Tarot can access non-local information. How? Why? Magic? Science?

Who knows?

I have my theories ...

 

I'm not sure I understood your meaning here ... but for me [Pythagoean that I am] the universe is all numbers and geometry. And since Tarot's Pip cards speak the language of numbers ... I DO see this as one way Tarot interfaces deeply with realities that humans don't necessarily perceive or comprehend in our normal consciousness.

 

Well, one explanation I've read about is that we're making meaning from the meaningless, as in seeing things in clouds that aren't there,or assuming there's a predator in the bushes when the wind blows through them. Are we taking a tarot reading and making it fit into our lives in much the same way as those two examples? Maybe we want it to fit so much that we make it fit?

 

12 hours ago, KiMo said:

As others have already said, even in the very short time that I've been reading for, I've seen too many 'coincidences' to not believe that the tarot is a real tool for accessing knowledge that in any other case would be hidden or inaccessible. I'm also a person who takes care to examine things critically, and again others have already said this, but I think that the ability to look at something from all angles is especially valuable when reading tarot. Ultimately though, at a point I had to accept that my own personal experiences with the tarot and the way they made me feel were just not able to be shrugged away anymore. 

 

In case it helps, I thought I would share the advice I received from the cards when I went through a period of doubt. I asked how I could connect again to the magic that I felt disconnected from, I suppose more because I doubted myself than anything else. I basically got the message that when we combine strength of heart and measured thinking, we can start to see how all the threads of the mystical weave together into a bigger tapestry, or web. From here I started to follow threads of which tarot was just one, and seeing how valuable a tool it was but knowing it wasn't a tool to be used in isolation. Dreams led to readings that led to synchronicities that led to realisations that led to direction... So really I learned that part of dispelling my own doubt was understanding that the magic was not just about sitting at the reading table and seeing how the cards reflect life directly, but also how the relationship between the cards and other threads of life and experience form a wider perspective. Seeing how seemingly separate things began to mirror each other made it difficult to deny that something else was going on underneath it all. It likely sounds very obvious to more experienced practitioners than me, but it was an eye opener and marked a big change in my outlook. 

 

I have also seen a lot of coincidences and synchronicities. My doubts may be part of it all too actually. Maybe I'm being affected by the coming Sagittarius New Moon since I'm a Sagittarius and I know that Jupiter, the ruling planet of Sagittarius expands everything, perhaps even the negative things like doubts. Or on the positive side critical thinking. Do the movements of the planets really affect us in a personal way? Perhaps my doubts are just part of the process and as I learn and grow further I'll understand divination as a whole better. I've only just begun exploring astrology, but maybe I'll find that the two work together well and form part of the tapestry of life. 

[fire cat pickles]

3 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said:

I don't understand what you mean by it's all math. But yeah it's a mix of all four of those things for me too. (In varying proportions. My current thinking is it's all energy as in E = mc squared. Is that what you mean by it's all math?

Yes. 

 

More, I don't completely understand math and I don't completely understand tarot.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chariot]

Maybe we are in error referring to tarot as 'magic.'  'Magic' has a lot of connotations; but one of them is (to certain people) that it's mumbo-jumbo fantasy stuff.   The minute they hear the word 'magic,' they back out.  I am skeptical of the word myself, to be honest.  Is 'magic' just a term we use for something we don't yet understand?  Or is it something we just want to work, because it's 'cool?'  Like in fantasy movies? 

I strongly believe there is so much 'out there' that we don't understand or know.  That doesn't mean it's necessarily 'unknowable.'  It's just that we don't  have the tools or perspective to understand it ...either yet, or ever.    I'm comfortable with that—just like I'm comfortable about not knowing if my spirit/soul will actually survive my physical death—or, if it does, what form it will take.  I don't know.  I am more afraid of making up notions or subscribing to religion, than I am at not knowing.

When people ask me, 'But how does Tarot WORK?'  I just say, 'I haven't a clue.  But it does work.  At least often enough for me to take it seriously.'

Some people will refuse to give tarot a chance.  Others will give it a chance, but then convince themselves that the results were just coincidence or manipulated by the practitioner.  Others will become believers, and some may become practitioners themselves.  I guess there is no universal fit for everybody.

[FindYourSovereignty]

@Drake_Winterfell, I have not read the responses yet so my apologies if what I share is a repeat.

 

Putting tarot aside, it feels like there may be an essence of magic missing, the perspective that we are surrounded by magical, mystical, remarkable energies all around us. There is that magical spark when catching someone’s eye across the room, when being in the right place at the right time, just missing an accident, seeing a feather on the ground, or discovering a previously unknown waterfall, etc. 

 

Tarot is magical and mystical to me simply because I connect with the cards from my experiences, my perception, my ah-ha lightbulb awareness that suddenly arrives. The feelings and the energy the cards present to me may or may not help me or the querent, but they are connecting with me from the mystery of life. This is magical. How do the images on a specific card or a spread suddenly bring just the right thought, memory, feeling, phrase, knowledge, awareness, etc. to this moment, to this reading? 
 

If there is a thought or feeling of being disenchanted with tarot readings themselves, maybe look into how enchanted the other areas of life are and discover where the disconnect may be. Maybe there is something more for you here with the knowledge of the cards - maybe as a creator or an author. 
 

Some thoughts for your consideration.

[KiMo]

5 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said:

Perhaps my doubts are just part of the process and as I learn and grow further I'll understand divination as a whole better.

I had an interesting thought after reading your reply, that actually the acknowledgement and processing of doubt evolves into discernment. Doubt forces us to examine our thoughts, feelings and beliefs, and through that we really learn how to pinpoint what our truths are. 

[Misterei]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:09 AM, Drake_Winterfell said:

... one explanation I've read about is that we're making meaning from the meaningless, as in seeing things in clouds that aren't there,or assuming there's a predator in the bushes when the wind blows through them. Are we taking a tarot reading and making it fit into our lives in much the same way as those two examples? Maybe we want it to fit so much that we make it fit?

I've also heard this explanation many times ... to me it's part of the modern trend to castrate tarot by psychologizing it.

When I get a card with a very SPECIFIC meaning ... like Knight of Pentacles which to me = New Job / change in work life ...

I ask the client: "we got Knight of Pentacles. Did you just get a new job?"

"Yes"

This isn't "making meaning from the meaningless" ... it's a very specific card that means new job in my repertoire ... this is accessing non-local information [i.e. the client didn't tell me she just started a new job. I had no way to know this via "normal channels".]

Also, a reader may pick up micro expresions and physcial clues that a client is lying, or nervous, or holding back, or whatnot ... but "new Job" is a bit more specific than most micro-expressions would reveal.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Misterei

[gregory]

11 hours ago, Misterei said:

.. to me it's part of the modern trend to castrate tarot by psychologizing it.

 

What I see - and have mentioned many times over the years - is that there is a real and present trend to overthink. I just take out the cards. I don't care how they work. Just as I don't sit in my car, turn the key, put my foot on the gas and think through all the stages the gas goes through to get to the spark. I just expect the car to move - and it does (usually.)

[akiva]

15 minutes ago, gregory said:

What I see - and have mentioned many times over the years - is that there is a real and present trend to overthink. I just take out the cards. I don't care how they work.

This is a great perspective to have. Sometimes we don't have to know things. It's okay to be in the dark about stuff and not totally understand it and sometimes peering behind the veil kind of ruins things 😊

[Misterei]

8 hours ago, gregory said:

 I just take out the cards. I don't care how they work. Just as I don't sit in my car, turn the key, put my foot on the gas and think through all the stages the gas goes through to get to the spark. I just expect the car to move - and it does (usually.)

Yes, this is true in one respect. I can hardly worry about how/why does tarot work when reading for a client ...

OTOH ...

I do have a decent understanding of how/why my car works.

Not at the level of a professional mechanic ... but enough to know when something is wrong and take an educated guess what is the problem [for example].

 

When it comes to TAROT I'm like the professional mechanic. If a client asks me how/why it works ... I want to give a reasonable and professional explanation ... just like when my mechanic explains what's wrong with the car and how he fixed it [for example].

[Drake_Winterfell]

I'm enjoying this discussion. It's interesting to read everyone's thoughts. 

 

On 12/7/2023 at 1:29 PM, Chariot said:

Maybe we are in error referring to tarot as 'magic.'  'Magic' has a lot of connotations; but one of them is (to certain people) that it's mumbo-jumbo fantasy stuff.   The minute they hear the word 'magic,' they back out.  I am skeptical of the word myself, to be honest.  Is 'magic' just a term we use for something we don't yet understand?  Or is it something we just want to work, because it's 'cool?'  Like in fantasy movies? 

I strongly believe there is so much 'out there' that we don't understand or know.  That doesn't mean it's necessarily 'unknowable.'  It's just that we don't  have the tools or perspective to understand it ...either yet, or ever.    I'm comfortable with that—just like I'm comfortable about not knowing if my spirit/soul will actually survive my physical death—or, if it does, what form it will take.  I don't know.  I am more afraid of making up notions or subscribing to religion, than I am at not knowing.

When people ask me, 'But how does Tarot WORK?'  I just say, 'I haven't a clue.  But it does work.  At least often enough for me to take it seriously.'

Some people will refuse to give tarot a chance.  Others will give it a chance, but then convince themselves that the results were just coincidence or manipulated by the practitioner.  Others will become believers, and some may become practitioners themselves.  I guess there is no universal fit for everybody.

 

Magic is probably both, something we just don't understand yet and something that is cool. People should give things a chance and see for themselves whether they are real or not. Letting your doubts stop you from exploring things is sad. Not too long ago it was debated whether meditation worked or not. Now we know it does. Perhaps tarot is like that? 

 

On 12/7/2023 at 2:33 PM, FindYourSovereignty said:

@Drake_Winterfell, I have not read the responses yet so my apologies if what I share is a repeat.

 

Putting tarot aside, it feels like there may be an essence of magic missing, the perspective that we are surrounded by magical, mystical, remarkable energies all around us. There is that magical spark when catching someone’s eye across the room, when being in the right place at the right time, just missing an accident, seeing a feather on the ground, or discovering a previously unknown waterfall, etc. 

 

Tarot is magical and mystical to me simply because I connect with the cards from my experiences, my perception, my ah-ha lightbulb awareness that suddenly arrives. The feelings and the energy the cards present to me may or may not help me or the querent, but they are connecting with me from the mystery of life. This is magical. How do the images on a specific card or a spread suddenly bring just the right thought, memory, feeling, phrase, knowledge, awareness, etc. to this moment, to this reading? 
 

If there is a thought or feeling of being disenchanted with tarot readings themselves, maybe look into how enchanted the other areas of life are and discover where the disconnect may be. Maybe there is something more for you here with the knowledge of the cards - maybe as a creator or an author. 
 

Some thoughts for your consideration.

 

Thanks for this perspective. You're right that there is magic all around us in our daily lives. We're too distracted to notice it most of the time though. Maybe pour most psychic thoughts come first before we have had time to let our rational minds interfere. How do just the right cards come up during a reading? I don't know and sometimes I wonder if I really want to know. There's a magic in wondering, in not knowing and letting our imagination fill in the possibilities. 

 

I do enjoy creating things and creative writing. Tarot cards are great at sparking inspiration. Maybe the tower represents an unexpected surprise that befalls the hero and the star represents a fairy who comes to the heroes aid. when he needs a little magical support. I do like how I can just get lost in the images sometimes. That way I can get meanings from the cards that aren't in any guidebook. 

 

Thanks for giving me some thoughts for my consideration. 🙂

 

On 12/7/2023 at 2:36 PM, KiMo said:

I had an interesting thought after reading your reply, that actually the acknowledgement and processing of doubt evolves into discernment. Doubt forces us to examine our thoughts, feelings and beliefs, and through that we really learn how to pinpoint what our truths are. 

 

Thanks for sharing this thought. I guess doubt helps us explore our thoughts on a topic and figure out what we really believe. 

 

20 hours ago, Misterei said:

I've also heard this explanation many times ... to me it's part of the modern trend to castrate tarot by psychologizing it.

When I get a card with a very SPECIFIC meaning ... like Knight of Pentacles which to me = New Job / change in work life ...

I ask the client: "we got Knight of Pentacles. Did you just get a new job?"

"Yes"

This isn't "making meaning from the meaningless" ... it's a very specific card that means new job in my repertoire ... this is accessing non-local information [i.e. the client didn't tell me she just started a new job. I had no way to know this via "normal channels".]

Also, a reader may pick up micro expresions and physcial clues that a client is lying, or nervous, or holding back, or whatnot ... but "new Job" is a bit more specific than most micro-expressions would reveal.

 

 

 

That is a very specific card with a specific meaning for you. Honestly I can't explain that. There's no way you could have known the client had gotten a new job. There's also no way that we could get specific information like that in readings on this forum. And it happens more than can be explained away simply by coincidence. 

 

8 hours ago, gregory said:

 

What I see - and have mentioned many times over the years - is that there is a real and present trend to overthink. I just take out the cards. I don't care how they work. Just as I don't sit in my car, turn the key, put my foot on the gas and think through all the stages the gas goes through to get to the spark. I just expect the car to move - and it does (usually.)

 

Yep, I tend to overthink myself. You do have a point. We don't need to know how a car works to be able to use it, or a computer for that matter. They just work at least most of the time. What do you do when a reading doesn't resonate with your client? You never wonder why the tarot failed to provide an accurate reading in that instance? 

 

[Chariot]

49 minutes ago, Drake_Winterfell said:

Magic is probably both, something we just don't understand yet and something that is cool. People should give things a chance and see for themselves whether they are real or not. Letting your doubts stop you from exploring things is sad. Not too long ago it was debated whether meditation worked or not. Now we know it does. Perhaps tarot is like that? 

 

@Drake_Winterfell I find myself avoiding the word 'magic' altogether when speaking about tarot to somebody who isn't yet familiar with tarot.   I usually introduce tarot as an effective meditation tool, and/or a series of cards that can suggest ways of thinking about your life, etc.  Once they see that tarot actually works, and is relevant to them, then they're open to knowing more ...and we can start talking more about the magical aspects of tarot—how it is often a window into future events and actions, and that it seems to 'know' a lot about us, etc.   

Edited December 10, 2023 by Chariot

[gregory]

2 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said:

Yep, I tend to overthink myself. You do have a point. We don't need to know how a car works to be able to use it, or a computer for that matter. They just work at least most of the time. What do you do when a reading doesn't resonate with your client? You never wonder why the tarot failed to provide an accurate reading in that instance? 

 

 

I say I am sorry it didn't resonate, and that there are a number of possibilities why this might be -  I have never claimed to be 100% anyway, so I could just have read it all wrong - though it is also possible it will suddenly resonate later (this actually happened with a reading I did here recently, I think !) I'm always a bit careful, though - sometimes the reading simply doesn't resonate because it wasn't what they hoped it would say. I don't second guess, I just chalk it up to fate. Occasionally I will offer to do another, but not for the exact same question.

[Misterei]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:16 PM, Drake_Winterfell said:

That is a very specific card with a specific meaning for you. Honestly I can't explain that. There's no way you could have known the client had gotten a new job. There's also no way that we could get specific information like that in readings on this forum. And it happens more than can be explained away simply by coincidence.

Exactly. And this is what has kept me with Tarot even as I've come to feel jaded with other spiritual systems and abandoned them. Tarot is too often right in very specific ways. Not 100% ... but enough that it can't be explained as coincidence or random chance [i.e. I had a 1 in 78 chance of picking a card for a new job ... for a client who just got a new job ... is this random chance when it happens on a regular basis?]

 

LOL I wish I'd taken statistics in uni ... I would like to do more detailed analysis on the probabilities of picking certain cards or combinations.

Mathematics is mystical to me ... this modern dichotomy of science opposed to mysticism is new-ish. Pythagoras was a mystic AND mathemetician };>

 

I absolutely believe that Tarot operates with "scientific" principles ... but there's a subtle mystical component that transcends mechanistic science.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Misterei

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7 hours ago, Misterei said:

LOL I wish I'd taken statistics in uni ... I would like to do more detailed analysis on the probabilities of picking certain cards or combinations.

 

Won't help. (I MUST get around to doing this here...) we did an experiment years ago on AT where one person agreed to have - IIRC 8 of us - read for her on the same issue, each using our own methods and spreads. We all drew quite different cards - one did a CC; I THINK just to be awkward I did a single card... And the readings came out startlingly similar. Sop how would stats work there |?

[Drake_Winterfell]

 

On 12/10/2023 at 9:04 PM, Chariot said:

@Drake_Winterfell I find myself avoiding the word 'magic' altogether when speaking about tarot to somebody who isn't yet familiar with tarot.   I usually introduce tarot as an effective meditation tool, and/or a series of cards that can suggest ways of thinking about your life, etc.  Once they see that tarot actually works, and is relevant to them, then they're open to knowing more ...and we can start talking more about the magical aspects of tarot—how it is often a window into future events and actions, and that it seems to 'know' a lot about us, etc.   

 

That's a good idea for dealing with people who might dismiss tarot if they were told it was magic to begin with. I think I'd introduce tarot as a set of cards that each represent either larger themes like fatherhood and authority (The Emperor) or things in our daily lives like working to make a living (8 of Pentacles) 

 

On 12/10/2023 at 10:35 PM, gregory said:

 

I say I am sorry it didn't resonate, and that there are a number of possibilities why this might be -  I have never claimed to be 100% anyway, so I could just have read it all wrong - though it is also possible it will suddenly resonate later (this actually happened with a reading I did here recently, I think !) I'm always a bit careful, though - sometimes the reading simply doesn't resonate because it wasn't what they hoped it would say. I don't second guess, I just chalk it up to fate. Occasionally I will offer to do another, but not for the exact same question.

 

Yeah, sometimes a reading is for the future and the things it talks about haven't come to pass yet. Or you the reader might have interpreted the cards wrong. 

 

8 hours ago, Misterei said:

Exactly. And this is what has kept me with Tarot even as I've come to feel jaded with other spiritual systems and abandoned them. Tarot is too often right in very specific ways. Not 100% ... but enough that it can't be explained as coincidence or random chance [i.e. I had a 1 in 78 chance of picking a card for a new job ... for a client who just got a new job ... is this random chance when it happens on a regular basis?]

 

LOL I wish I'd taken statistics in uni ... I would like to do more detailed analysis on the probabilities of picking certain cards or combinations.

Mathematics is mystical to me ... this modern dichotomy of science opposed to mysticism is new-ish. Pythagoras was a mystic AND mathemetician };>

 

I absolutely believe that Tarot operates with "scientific" principles ... but there's a subtle mystical component that transcends mechanistic science.

 

It's not just random chance when it happens on a regular basis. We have to look for a different explanation. 

I didn't know Pythagoras was a mystic. 

Mechanistic science doesn't explain quantum science. It's mystical that a particle can be in two different places at the same time. There's definitely more to the universe than we currently understand.

 

1 hour ago, gregory said:

 

Won't help. (I MUST get around to doing this here...) we did an experiment years ago on AT where one person agreed to have - IIRC 8 of us - read for her on the same issue, each using our own methods and spreads. We all drew quite different cards - one did a CC; I THINK just to be awkward I did a single card... And the readings came out startlingly similar. Sop how would stats work there |?

 

Yep, you must do that here. That would be an interesting experiment to do again. You just like to be awkward sometimes don't you 😜 I have no idea what the statistics would be for that situation