How do you draw cards in a reading?

[Siri5]

Actually not sure which section this would fit in so please feel free to correct and move the post if needed.
 

I was wondering how people draw their cards and why. 
 

Since I asked I’ll start - I tend to shuffle and stop when called to, then draw from the top. If I ask a second question or want clarifiers I will shuffle again and then again draw from the top, but unless it’s a new unrelated question I will use the same deck minus the already drawn cards.  
 

If I get cards that fly out during shuffling I look at them and note them but will put them back in the deck. I will only read them if they reappear as part of my deliberately drawn cards later in the reading, in which case I see them as particularly significant. This actually happens fairly frequently. 
 

I shuffle in a way that doesn’t tend to give me reversals but if I do get a reversed card I will take it and read it. 
 

How do other people pull cards? Do you have any specific reason for your method or does it just feel ‘right’? Would love to learn more!

[DanielJUK]

you posted this in the perfect place @Siri5 🙂

[Siri5]

Thank you @DanielJUK, glad it was in the right place! 😊

[Tanga]

- I shuffle, split the deck and shuffle again - between 1-3 times intuitively. If reading for another - I then get them to shuffle once - in whatever way they please (short of riffling - as I hate having my cards riffled & I don't riffle shuffle them myself), and split the deck once.

I tell them to think of their question while they're doing it.

Then I pick cards from the top of the deck to lay out, with the deck in my hand.

I lay them out face up - one at a time. I may lay them out slowly - reading as I go, OR lay the whole spread out first and then start reading.

 

I may or may not read reversals - intuitively.

I don't usually read jumper cards for other people - somehow I find this too disruptive to my train of thought.

Sometimes I do read jumpers for myself however. I definitely read jumpers if my spread is a conversation with my guides - as they

usually have a sense of humour, and chucking cards about fits into this.

 

*My intuition here - is best described as me listening to an inner part of myself (somewhere...) that says yes or no in my head.

 

- If it's a quick reading - 1-2-3 card spreads, for another - I may fan the cards out on the table after I have shuffled once (I don't get them to shuffle) and let them pick their cards intuitively. If they don't know what that means I say - run your hand over the cards and see which

one most speaks to you.

 

- If I have time before beginning the shuffling rigmarole - I may say my short Tarot charm/prayer/affirmation in my head.

After reading - I may shuffle once to "clear" the deck. If it feels insufficient - I may bang the deck on the table and say "Clean please!"

requesting all-and-sundry Tarot guides to clear the deck 🙃.

 

And having written all this - I feel some sort of "gratitude" one-line affirmation coming on, for the end of readings...

Hmmmm - I'm just going to lie in the bath-tub and think about that right now.

 

Thank you so much for this 🙏.

 

[Barleywine]

From the top of the deck after a thorough overhand shuffle-and-cut that intentionally introduces reversals. I also hate riffling since I've bent and creased some decks doing it. I pay no attention to jumpers and don't use any "auxiliary"
 cards like clarifiers or base/shadow cards. If they're intended to be read they will appear in the draw. For public readings I have my clients do the honors (just no riffling) since it's their job to put the cards in the right order for their reading. I will occasionally deal into several piles for more thorough randomizing, and I seldom put my decks back in out-of-the-box order since I want the randomizing to be cumulative. Except for the "pile" method (which is fairly new to me) I've bee shuffling that way since I first learned it from Eden Gray's book "The Tarot Revealed" back in 1972.

[Misterei]

I fan the deck facedown then pick my cards when my hand “feels” something over a card

I don’t pay attention to jumpers. I drop cards all the time so its not significant 😉

 

For tirage en croix only I ask the client to pick numbers and count to that number. [for the majors]. If I add minors I use the fan technique.

Doing tirage en croix for myself I roll D&D dice for the majors although I have to get a little creative as there are no 22-sided dice.

Edited January 22, 2024 by Misterei

[DanielJUK]

6 hours ago, Siri5 said:

I was wondering how people draw their cards and why. 
 

Since I asked I’ll start - I tend to shuffle and stop when called to, then draw from the top. If I ask a second question or want clarifiers I will shuffle again and then again draw from the top, but unless it’s a new unrelated question I will use the same deck minus the already drawn cards. 

 

same!

I shuffle until I feel it's ready for my reading or the person I am reading for. Like it's an intuitive feeling. I ask the question or topic I am reading on and if I am reading for someone else, even on this forum, I make an intention that this is a reading for [them]. It's important for me to get the right message for the right person.

 

6 hours ago, Siri5 said:

If I get cards that fly out during shuffling I look at them and note them but will put them back in the deck. I will only read them if they reappear as part of my deliberately drawn cards later in the reading, in which case I see them as particularly significant. This actually happens fairly frequently. 

 

These are often called jumpers! It's really a personal call, use them or don't! I do use them in the reading if they are significant or come out with that card in that position. I tend to ignore them if many cards come out at once and put it down to my clumsy hands 🙂 .

 

6 hours ago, Siri5 said:

I shuffle in a way that doesn’t tend to give me reversals but if I do get a reversed card I will take it and read it. 

 

I do use reversals in some decks and others I don't. For those decks I keep reversals shuffled in and during shuffling, I just turn one group of cards the other way around.

 

I shuffle, feel it's in the right order for the message, and then deal. If I need more, I take from the top. As I start the reading, I glance at the card on the base of the deck. I find this gives a really quick overview of the situation of the reading (the base or foundation of the question / reading). It's useful when you don't know someone you are reading for. I don't give huge weight to it in the reading but it just helps me get started. It summarises the present situation.

 

I bought a tarot reading from a professional reader recently because I wanted to see their reading technique in action. They didn't use proper spreads but more of an intuitive process of laying down many cards of many different decks, you end up with a lot of cards laid down. The reading was a video reading. How they did it was to shuffle the deck and then during the shuffling, cards would fall out. So the cards for the reading were only jumpers, never dealt from the deck formally! We didn't have an hour to wait for cards to fall out and so I think the shuffling process was a little deliberately messy for cards to fall out, like they almost made it happen to not take up too much time!! It was interesting to see a different method of doing it but it wasn't for me. I think my method is making an intention and this is the order for the reading when you deal it out! I guess you could say the falling out cards method was the "destined cards" but I wouldn't use it personally.

 

 

[gregory]

Riffle shuffle (I'd love to do overhand but whenever I try it's a disaster)  and cut a few times, then draw from the top. No clarifiers, no jumpers, no looking for the cards I can feel, just the cards at the top.

 

Whatever way we do it, I think the decks know. Likewise clarifiers (which don't clarify anyway) - if they are a part of the message, they will sit there at the top, waiting to be drawn.

[Sar]

Like this: Shuffle, Cut, draw.

[Siri5]

17 hours ago, Tanga said:

- I shuffle, split the deck and shuffle again - between 1-3 times intuitively. If reading for another - I then get them to shuffle once - in whatever way they please (short of riffling - as I hate having my cards riffled & I don't riffle shuffle them myself), and split the deck once.

I tell them to think of their question while they're doing it.

Then I pick cards from the top of the deck to lay out, with the deck in my hand.

I lay them out face up - one at a time. I may lay them out slowly - reading as I go, OR lay the whole spread out first and then start reading.

 

I may or may not read reversals - intuitively.

I don't usually read jumper cards for other people - somehow I find this too disruptive to my train of thought.

Sometimes I do read jumpers for myself however. I definitely read jumpers if my spread is a conversation with my guides - as they

usually have a sense of humour, and chucking cards about fits into this.

 

*My intuition here - is best described as me listening to an inner part of myself (somewhere...) that says yes or no in my head.

 

- If it's a quick reading - 1-2-3 card spreads, for another - I may fan the cards out on the table after I have shuffled once (I don't get them to shuffle) and let them pick their cards intuitively. If they don't know what that means I say - run your hand over the cards and see which

one most speaks to you.

 

- If I have time before beginning the shuffling rigmarole - I may say my short Tarot charm/prayer/affirmation in my head.

After reading - I may shuffle once to "clear" the deck. If it feels insufficient - I may bang the deck on the table and say "Clean please!"

requesting all-and-sundry Tarot guides to clear the deck 🙃.

 

And having written all this - I feel some sort of "gratitude" one-line affirmation coming on, for the end of readings...

Hmmmm - I'm just going to lie in the bath-tub and think about that right now.

 

Thank you so much for this 🙏.

 

Thank you so much for the detailed response. I think I am a bit scared of reversals, as someone still learning it feels like it adds another 78 meanings to the already existing ones!! I know they are linked to the upright meanings but that makes it... kind of worse! 😉  As a compromise I shuffle my cards so I don't tend to get reversals and then, if I still do for whatever reason then I feel it must be significant and I better accept my fate! 

 

Letting other people pick the cards when you are reading for others makes a lot of sense to me. In the end it's their reading, even if they rely on you interpreting the meaning of the cards they have chosen. I have never read for others so haven't had that situation yet, but it speaks to me and if I ever do attempt a reading for someone else I may do this too.

 

As for after a reading, yes, I shuffle to clear too. Sometimes I rap it with my knuckles to reinforce this. It doesn't feel right to let the deck just sit with the reading I've just done. I do another clearing of the deck before I start a reading too. 

 

I find it so interesting how people pick cards. The predominant way of social media appears to be to read from flyers. I guess it's more dramatic that way, adds more visual interest. I don't watch a lot of readings now as they all appear the same, more or less, but when I first discovered them I tried reading from flyers for a bit. It never felt quite right to me, not because I don't accept it as a method that can work for someone but because I felt I could never quite trust my own shuffling skills. I get a lot of flyers some days, depending on how clumsy my shuffling is, and how do I determine what is a valid flyer and what is just my rubbish shuffling? My compromise is that I will look at it (if it's not half the deck flying out) but I will not read it. Instead I wait to see if it reappears. If it does I know that it was not an accident but a deliberate card hiding in the middle of all my accidental flyers. 🙂 

 

 

[Siri5]

16 hours ago, Barleywine said:

From the top of the deck after a thorough overhand shuffle-and-cut that intentionally introduces reversals. I also hate riffling since I've bent and creased some decks doing it. I pay no attention to jumpers and don't use any "auxiliary"
 cards like clarifiers or base/shadow cards. If they're intended to be read they will appear in the draw. For public readings I have my clients do the honors (just no riffling) since it's their job to put the cards in the right order for their reading. I will occasionally deal into several piles for more thorough randomizing, and I seldom put my decks back in out-of-the-box order since I want the randomizing to be cumulative. Except for the "pile" method (which is fairly new to me) I've bee shuffling that way since I first learned it from Eden Gray's book "The Tarot Revealed" back in 1972.

Thank you for sharing your method. I get the sense a lot of people don't use clarifiers and I can see why. As a relative newbie I am often tempted by them and while there are times when they are genuinely useful and add context and clarification, it's just as often that they confuse things further. I do find base/shadow cards quite interesting and I forgot to mention them in my initial write-up. I do look at them unless I forget, in which case I think of it as clearly not that important to the reading as otherwise I would have felt compelled to look. I don't put a lot of emphasis on base cards during a reading but they often give me a sort of underlying current that holds the reading together.

 

As I've said in response to Tanga above, letting clients pick their own cards makes a lot of sense to me and if I ever choose to do readings for others I will definitely implement that. 

 

Like you I don't tend to put my decks back in order. Curious, though, what is the 'pile' method? 

[Siri5]

2 hours ago, Sar said:

Like this: Shuffle, Cut, draw.

Thanks for your response. When you say 'cut, draw' - sorry if that's a silly question, but do you mean you draw from the cut rather than the top? 

[Siri5]

5 hours ago, gregory said:

Riffle shuffle (I'd love to do overhand but whenever I try it's a disaster)  and cut a few times, then draw from the top. No clarifiers, no jumpers, no looking for the cards I can feel, just the cards at the top.

 

Whatever way we do it, I think the decks know. Likewise clarifiers (which don't clarify anyway) - if they are a part of the message, they will sit there at the top, waiting to be drawn.

I tend to do both, the riffle mixes better (for me) but I then do an overhand shuffle 2-3 times after, until I feel compelled to stop. I like the simplicity of your method, no clarifiers, no jumpers... I feel sometimes I allow too much frill into my reading so I may try to pull it back and see how it feels to just doe a top draw and nothing else.

 

And I can see what you mean re clarifiers - I'm often tempted by them but while I have occasionally found that they help there are just as many occasions where they didn't or even made a fairly straight-forward reading more complex and confusing! Again, as above, I like the clarity and simplicity and may give that a go to see how it feels. 

[Siri5]

12 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

 

same!

I shuffle until I feel it's ready for my reading or the person I am reading for. Like it's an intuitive feeling. I ask the question or topic I am reading on and if I am reading for someone else, even on this forum, I make an intention that this is a reading for [them]. It's important for me to get the right message for the right person.

 

 

These are often called jumpers! It's really a personal call, use them or don't! I do use them in the reading if they are significant or come out with that card in that position. I tend to ignore them if many cards come out at once and put it down to my clumsy hands 🙂 .

 

 

I do use reversals in some decks and others I don't. For those decks I keep reversals shuffled in and during shuffling, I just turn one group of cards the other way around.

 

I shuffle, feel it's in the right order for the message, and then deal. If I need more, I take from the top. As I start the reading, I glance at the card on the base of the deck. I find this gives a really quick overview of the situation of the reading (the base or foundation of the question / reading). It's useful when you don't know someone you are reading for. I don't give huge weight to it in the reading but it just helps me get started. It summarises the present situation.

 

I bought a tarot reading from a professional reader recently because I wanted to see their reading technique in action. They didn't use proper spreads but more of an intuitive process of laying down many cards of many different decks, you end up with a lot of cards laid down. The reading was a video reading. How they did it was to shuffle the deck and then during the shuffling, cards would fall out. So the cards for the reading were only jumpers, never dealt from the deck formally! We didn't have an hour to wait for cards to fall out and so I think the shuffling process was a little deliberately messy for cards to fall out, like they almost made it happen to not take up too much time!! It was interesting to see a different method of doing it but it wasn't for me. I think my method is making an intention and this is the order for the reading when you deal it out! I guess you could say the falling out cards method was the "destined cards" but I wouldn't use it personally.

 

 

Thank you so much for the detailed response, I really appreciate it! This forum has been so helpful and it's so nice to have a place to chat and ask about tarot!

 

I was saying to someone below, I initially picked up the idea of reading jumpers from social media. For a while I was watching readings in the hope of learning from other people's methods but I've found that it's a pretty mixed bag to say the least. I tried reading from jumpers but as my shuffling isn't really that skilled I get a lot of jumpers, with no clear indication why a card jumped out - is it intentional or is it just my rubbish shuffling? So yes, what you are saying resonates quite strongly for me! 😄 I think what I do now is my compromise. If a card jumps out I look but don't do anything (unless it's half the deck that I've dropped, in which case I don't look, I just start again). In my mind, if the card was significant and not an accidental jumper it will come up again, and I have found that this happens with fair frequency, but obviously not with every card. So looking for that re-appearance of initial jumpers is my way of finding out which cards are true jumpers and which cards are just down to my lacking skill in shuffling, which makes me drop cards all over the place! 😉 

 

It's interesting to read about your reading of the card at the base of the deck. I do this too, although I forgot to mention it in my initial write-up. I tend to quickly glance at it, unless I forget, in which case I think that's significant too as I feel if the card had any significance in the meaning I would have been compelled to look at it. Like you I don't let it dominate my reading, but it does add a kind of undercurrent to the situation which can be useful.

 

Interesting experience with the professional reader. It sounds a lot like the readings I've watched on social media, where readers usually seem to read from jumpers and often without any particular spread and can end up with a lot of cards, some of which are then almost ignored, possibly because they don't quite fit into the overall gist of the reading. I'm not saying that it can't work, but for a novice it was difficult for me to make sense of it and it definitely wasn't great to learn from, which is part of the reason why I've all but stopped watching readings like that. This, and the fact that they seemed very repetitive after a while since the readings I watched were not specifically for me but free 'collective' readings - this made them very generic and I feel very much geared towards what a tarot audience wanted to hear (lots of readings along the lines of 'yes, he's thinking of you', 'yes, he is on his way back', etc. - as someone not that interested in this type of love reading and just wanting to learn technique it didn't offer very much).

[Siri5]

14 hours ago, Misterei said:

I fan the deck facedown then pick my cards when my hand “feels” something over a card

I don’t pay attention to jumpers. I drop cards all the time so its not significant 😉

 

For tirage en croix only I ask the client to pick numbers and count to that number. [for the majors]. If I add minors I use the fan technique.

Doing tirage en croix for myself I roll D&D dice for the majors although I have to get a little creative as there are no 22-sided dice.

Thank you for your response @Misterei. 

 

Interesting method re the tirage en croix. I've not used that spread myself, though I see it popping up every now and then and I'm tempted to try because it looks like a nice clean spread! 

 

I've not tried the method of fanning out the deck. I suppose it would take a fair  bit of desk space? I may give it a go to see how it feels.

 

It looks like I'm not the only person who drops cards all the time during shuffling! It's very reassuring! 😄 That's pretty much why I don't really read jumpers as such either, because I can't be sure why they came out - is is significant or is it just because my shuffling is rubbish?! 😉 

[akiva]

The method I usually go for is over hand with riffle shuffling at random intervals, if a deck requires reversals (which I don't tend to use) I'll cut the deck into 3 and turn one pile so they're reversed then riffle them back together. Can't say I've ever bent cards through riffle shuffling though! 😯

After shuffling I'll cut the deck and read it as the querents mind set/hopes/wants, recompile the deck and lay them out.

 

Sometimes I do as @Misterei does, fan the deck out and select cards based on feeling, or my pendulum if I'm feeling extra 😆

(Also I recommend trying the triage en croix, it's a great spread)

 

Regarding knowing when to stop shuffling, I'll feel for the 'ping' which is usually in my heart chakra/center, but sometimes it's in my hands. It will be like a really relaxed feeling.

 

Recently I've been getting into Russian cartomancy using 36 cards and the lady I was watching on YouTube shuffles the cards, and then says "36 cards, 36 devils, tell me the whole truth and only the truth about insert question here" then she cuts and lays them out. It's been fun to try it out, though its not replacement for my usual method.

[Sar]

1 hour ago, Siri5 said:

Thanks for your response. When you say 'cut, draw' - sorry if that's a silly question, but do you mean you draw from the cut rather than the top? 

No, I do not ment that, I should of coursed written I added the cut back with the other cards.

[Barleywine]

5 hours ago, Siri5 said:

Like you I don't tend to put my decks back in order. Curious, though, what is the 'pile' method? 

It's a method I learned from Grizzabella, I think it was, back when we were both on AT. I deal all of the cards randomly into several piles (I'm currently using eight), turn half of them upside-down to introduce reversals, then reassemble the piles in random order. After that I do an overhand shuffle.

[Misterei]

6 hours ago, Siri5 said:

I've not tried the method of fanning out the deck. I suppose it would take a fair  bit of desk space? I may give it a go to see how it feels.

 

It looks like I'm not the only person who drops cards all the time during shuffling! It's very reassuring!  That's pretty much why I don't really read jumpers as such ... I can't be sure why they came out - is is significant or is it just because my shuffling is rubbish?!

I've recently moved back to my tiny cottage and read for clients at a desk that's much smaller than my huge desk. Since I do astro + tarot I need both my computer and a place to lay cards all on one desk. Amazingly ... I've adjusted to doing the fan in a small space The trick is not to care if cards go on top of each other };> My spread usually ends up partially on top of the original fan. I then snap a photo and pick up if I proceed to another spread for same client ... whereas before I might lay 2-3 spreads without picking up. I'm happy I was able to adjust.

 

LOL my shuffling is rubbish. I KNOW that's why cards jump 😇

I admit I do look at them to note of they reappear in the actual spread, tho.

[Misterei]

5 hours ago, akiva said:

... says "36 cards, 36 devils, tell me the whole truth and only the truth about insert question here" then she cuts and lays them out. ...

SO Russian.

The slavs, Russians, Greeks, Balkans have this very different idea of the devil compared to Western attitudes. Like he can be a helpful friend sometimes, too.

[akiva]

39 minutes ago, Misterei said:

SO Russian.

The slavs, Russians, Greeks, Balkans have this very different idea of the devil compared to Western attitudes. Like he can be a helpful friend sometimes, too.

I remember reading the Greek magical papyri and they referenced demons (probably spelt dæmon) regularly. Upon researching it I found out that it was their word for spiritual beings, whether positive or negative. Somewhere down the line the word turned into something 'bad'.

 

I suspect it's similar when she recites this mantra before dealing the cards. It could be a reference to an older world view of 'demon' like beings? 🤔 She also practices witchcraft and has videos with poppet dolls and all sorts... 🤣 so who knows!

[DanielJUK]

19 hours ago, Siri5 said:

It's interesting to read about your reading of the card at the base of the deck. I do this too, although I forgot to mention it in my initial write-up. I tend to quickly glance at it, unless I forget, in which case I think that's significant too as I feel if the card had any significance in the meaning I would have been compelled to look at it. Like you I don't let it dominate my reading, but it does add a kind of undercurrent to the situation which can be useful.

 

Interesting experience with the professional reader. It sounds a lot like the readings I've watched on social media, where readers usually seem to read from jumpers and often without any particular spread and can end up with a lot of cards, some of which are then almost ignored, possibly because they don't quite fit into the overall gist of the reading. I'm not saying that it can't work, but for a novice it was difficult for me to make sense of it and it definitely wasn't great to learn from, which is part of the reason why I've all but stopped watching readings like that. This, and the fact that they seemed very repetitive after a while since the readings I watched were not specifically for me but free 'collective' readings - this made them very generic and I feel very much geared towards what a tarot audience wanted to hear (lots of readings along the lines of 'yes, he's thinking of you', 'yes, he is on his way back', etc. - as someone not that interested in this type of love reading and just wanting to learn technique it didn't offer very much).

 

To be honest, paying for a reading and the person really sloppy shuffling to throw out cards is not a good or professional look! It looks much more professional to deal from the top.

The problem I think with social media and influencers using cards on video apps is that you get plenty of people demonstrating but they have no long-term experience. They are learning as they go but how can you do a video guide to something without experience in it? This a problem a lot with influencer videos, it's to get hits or watching statistics, but who cares about the system or knowledge. It's like "looks at this wild shuffling method, use it in all your readings" but you never see them actually interpreting a reading on their channel 😉

 

There was a great thread recently with the different types of shuffling techniques, worth a read -

 

I have a personal policy of trying out a lot of things with my tarot reading, reversals, base card, quintessence or quint card (when you add all the card numerological values together, then reduce to get the number of a major for the reading). But I only use the methods that add something to my readings and dump the rest. I use a base card and I often use reversals and that is it 🙂 .

 

[Eugenie]

OMG, I never realized that I was drawing the cards like nobody else here (it seems) does! Of course I watched some videos with readers but thought "well, a bit strange how they draw the cards but if it suits them, why not". Too funny! I usually do various sorts of shuffling if I know that the deck needs it; then I do a bit of overhand, cut the deck and take the card from the top of the portion held by my under-hand. Shuffle again and repeat. So, more or less what other people do, but the card is not from the very top, but rather from somewhere in the middle of the deck. I do this because this is what we did as teenagers, using playing cards for divination. I think it is some Slavic/Russian tradition.

[akiva]

13 minutes ago, Eugenie said:

OMG, I never realized that I was drawing the cards like nobody else here (it seems) does! Of course I watched some videos with readers but thought "well, a bit strange how they draw the cards but if it suits them, why not". Too funny! I usually do various sorts of shuffling if I know that the deck needs it; then I do a bit of overhand, cut the deck and take the card from the top of the portion held by my under-hand. Shuffle again and repeat. So, more or less what other people do, but the card is not from the very top, but rather from somewhere in the middle of the deck. I do this because this is what we did as teenagers, using playing cards for divination. I think it is some Slavic/Russian tradition.

I've seen a Russian youtuber doing it, though it seemed they were drawing from the deck differently depending on the method they were using. For a lot of the yes/no methods they drew from the middle of the deck! 😊

[Misterei]

On 1/22/2024 at 2:55 PM, akiva said:

I remember reading the Greek magical papyri and they referenced demons (probably spelt dæmon) regularly. Upon researching it I found out that it was their word for spiritual beings, whether positive or negative. Somewhere down the line the word turned into something 'bad'.

 

I suspect it's similar when she recites this mantra before dealing the cards. It could be a reference to an older world view of 'demon' like beings? 🤔 She also practices witchcraft and has videos with poppet dolls and all sorts... 🤣 so who knows!

Yes. The Greek word daemon as you say … became negative over time.

And yes, your idea of her using “devils” this way makes sense …

 

But I do mean Satan, Beelzebub, the Devil.

He’s not always so evil to the Eastern European ppl. Gurdjieff titled his book Beelzebub’s Tales to his Grandson, for eaxmple.

Yes, Gyrdjieff is kinda “out there” … but that Eastern Orthodox culture never quite saw Devil evil the same way Catholics and Protestants did. 

Like the church might frown on telling fortunes, so I’ll ask the Devil for help. The devil is almost like an older brother you ask for help when you can’t ask your parents [god] b/c they would get mad.

Ne c’est pas?