A couple of Tarot questions from a (relative) newbie

[Guest]

Hello all, there's a few things I'm wondering about and hope you can shed some light on it.  I apologize if these questions have been asked before, but decided to put these rather short questions into one post.

 

First question: why (or in what instances) could/should a significator be used?  I understand the concept of it, just wasn't sure when and how it should be used.

 

Second question: what benefits are there to using an Oracle deck, especially in conjunction with a tarot deck?  What are the pros and cons?

 

Last question is more of a comment; what are some good tips and tricks for people learning to read the cards intuitively?

[FindYourSovereignty]

I like these questions and am happy to share when and why.

 

1. I have used significator cards for the sitter to feel more connected to the reading. I will sometimes ask them

to look at the images and pull out the card that they feel connects or calls to them. I also like using the card that connects with their birthdate. I don’t do both at the same time.

 

2. If I use oracle cards with my tarot readings it is usually as an advice card. Sometimes I’ll do a reading with an oracle card and a tarot card paired for each position of the spread, but I’ve only done that in practice groups.

 

3. The ISG group Daniel shared in your intro thread is a fun activity each month that encourages reading the card intuitively - so much so that nothing that you’ve learned about a card is to be included in the reading. Another way that has helped me is to write down my immediate thoughts and feelings when I look at each of the cards. Then I describe everything I see in the image - the details, the nuances, the energy, feelings, expressions and movement. Thoughts start to really flow in when I bring all of this together. There are so many ways to practice intuitive reading and each one will find what works best for them. These have been my most rewarding. I look forward to hearing what had worked well for others.

[DanielJUK]

1 hour ago, OTarot said:

Hello all, there's a few things I'm wondering about and hope you can shed some light on it.  I apologize if these questions have been asked before, but decided to put these rather short questions into one post.

 

First question: why (or in what instances) could/should a significator be used?  I understand the concept of it, just wasn't sure when and how it should be used.

 

It's fine to ask questions on topics again 🙂 

 

Using a signficator is really a personal choice, you can use it how you like. If you read old tarot books (like pre 2000's), you must use a signficator in the reading, it's tradition! It was suggested you pick a card to represent you or the person you are reading for and it must be on the table for the spread. I think this idea has become unfashionable and I haven't seen many on the forum using them like that anymore, largely because you use / lose a valuable card from your deck for it. Although I have seen people take a different card from a deck for it and then use a whole one. Also some of the methods for choosing this are outdated today, like on physical appearance of the Court cards.

 

You can take a card that represents the energy on what you want to read on, this is also a significator. for example, How can I give more loving and nuturing energy to the world? You might take The Empress to represent this.

 

One really way of using them and is the only method I really use with them these days is to take a card that you can't understand in a reading or a card(s) that keep coming up for you (we call these stalker cards). Then you can take more cards to find out what you mean.

 

So really it's just a focus card but I think largely most people don't use them commonly. There is nothing wrong with using them in your readings though. It's what you feel is best for your reading.

There was some threads recently all about this, worth reading through.....

 

 

1 hour ago, OTarot said:

Second question: what benefits are there to using an Oracle deck, especially in conjunction with a tarot deck?  What are the pros and cons?

 

ooh a biggy of a question, what fruit do I want to eat; a pear, an apple, an orange or banana? It depends on your favourites, taste and your mood!

All card decks are divination oracles, tarot is one too! Tarot is one branch of this and has a formal system, it has to have 78 cards, majors, minors, courts. If something is not this system (okay there is a few inbetween decks with some more or less cards which are still tarot), they are oracles. To have categories on the forum sections and to make it simple we say, tarot or oracles. Not all oracles, however, are tarot because oracles can have any system they want! 12 cards with random things on, 400 cards with mathematical equations. Oracles have their own system or no system.

 

Some people prefer oracles, some people prefer tarot, some people use both! Pros and cons is tricky, it's what you like or prefer really! Perhaps some decks are better for some readings? Using both together is fun, you get more info and mix the systems but it is harder work! You are doubling your work and time on it and also have to compare and contrast the tarot card with the oracle card. So you get more but it is more in-depth.

 

1 hour ago, OTarot said:

Last question is more of a comment; what are some good tips and tricks for people learning to read the cards intuitively?

 

Well @FindYourSovereignty answered this perfectly but practise! Use them! I think you improve with practical experience of many different readings.

My top tips are to really look at the cards! We can learn about each card and the meaning, and then don't look at the card images. For me, symbols or sections of the card jump out at me, this part of the picture is really important for the reading kind of thing. Use your senses, feel, touch, smell, see, hear. I sometimes hear from a card, like a message and sometimes have smelt perfume or smells from them. Some people use intuitive reading like a movie, they see the card as playing out, what happened before and after. It's about finding a good method that works for you. It's good to look for patterns you see before you, in the images and the direction of the cards.

 

There are no rights or wrongs to any of these questions, it's about finding your own way. I am sure the members will share their way of using these and we all do it differently, which is part of the fun 🙂 

[Tom]

I only use significators when I used the Celtic Cross Spread.  I go by traits of the querent rather than the old way of picking.  Or I Might use a Major Arcana card for the person.  Like I'd choose a the Empress for an Earth Mother type or The Emperor for man who is in charge,  commanding and masculine or an for officer in the military.

 

Some people don't like to take any cards or if play and wouldn't use any, but with the Celtic Cross I feel that the covering and crossing cards accentuate the circumstance surrounding the querent.  If pick the King of Cups for myself because I can relate to him most. There are 77 other cards that can express similar ideas to what the significator represents, so why not?

 

As had been said above it's the readers choice to do what most makes sense to them. 

[Misterei]

5 hours ago, OTarot said:

First question: why (or in what instances) could/should a significator be used?  I understand the concept of it, just wasn't sure when and how it should be used.

 

Second question: what benefits are there to using an Oracle deck, especially in conjunction with a tarot deck?  What are the pros and cons?

I only use significator in a special significator spread where I activate a card to mean something. Otherwise, when it comes to Court Cards .... well ... they're ALL significators. As @DanielJUK says, choosing a Court to represent your client is old school and many modern readers don't bother. I never saw the point.

 

The oracle + tarot thing arose on YT / social media. It wasn't a thing until a bunch of youtubers started doing it. I assume to hide their inexperience with Tarot. Then "everyone" started doing it to get clicks or be in with the trend.

 

I use oracles, tarots, lenormands. But not together, They all do different things. Tarot is a complete system if you know what you're doing. Why muddy the waters?

[Chariot]

I used to use significators all the time—BUT I didn't deliberately choose them beforehand!  I shuffled and dealt them out, along with all the other cards in the spread.  So the Tarot picked out whatever card 'signified' the querent.  The significator became part of the reading itself, and was often quite enlightening.  (It was very often NOT a court card!  Instead it was whatever trait or state of mind was 'significant' to describe the querent at that moment.)  

I'm with @Misterei on the 'pre-chosen' significator. I don't see the point.  And it does remove a card from the spread.  I suppose the way around that is to choose your significator from a separate deck, so you will still have all 78 cards in play when you do the reading ...but again, why?

As for oracles, I'm still at the stage where I play with an oracle deck, and don't use it for serious divination.  I only own three oracle decks ...which is enough for me.  I often sit and look at them—either on their own, or after I've finished reading with Tarot.  Sometimes I go through an oracle deck card by card, face-up—without thinking too hard—and pull out any cards that seem to speak to me that day.  If I do this fast enough and don't overthink the procedure, it can give me some really helpful outlooks to think about.

As for intuitive reading ...well, that's not how I started out.  I started out with the RWS deck, the little white book, etc, and a few other books as well.  It was years before I even bought a second deck, with different artwork (same system, though.)  So when I read 'intuitively' it IS informed by the card meanings I learned back then, in days of yore.

However, since I've been reading tarot for so long (since the late 1970s), I do find that certain meanings snap right out at me, when a particular card turns up in a particular place in a spread.  In fact, I often find myself saying a word out loud that attaches itself to the card in question.  I often instantly KNOW that's what that card means in that position, on this particular day.  Another day, another reading, perhaps one of the other meanings for that card will pop up instead.  I try to go with my first impressions during a reading, which seems to work best for me.  Sometimes my reactions are slower and more muddled, and do require thought before the  meaning evolves ...but that initial snap is quite handy, if it comes.  It's a form of intuition, I reckon ...just not based on the card's artwork, but more on one of the different meanings normally associated with that card.

Edited January 29, 2024 by Chariot

[Misterei]

On 1/29/2024 at 11:35 AM, Chariot said:

As for intuitive reading ...well, that's not how I started out.  I started out with the RWS deck, the little white book, etc, and a few other books as well.  It was years before I even bought a second deck, with different artwork (same system, though.)  So when I read 'intuitively' it IS informed by the card meanings I learned back then, in days of yore.

However, since I've been reading tarot for so long (since the late 1970s), I do find that certain meanings snap right out at me, when a particular card turns up in a particular place in a spread.  … I often instantly KNOW that's what that card means in that position, on this particular day.  Another day, another reading, perhaps one of the other meanings for that card will pop up instead.  

This brings up an interesting point.

What do we mean by reading intuitively?

 

Do we mean “I ignore 600 years of tarot history and read the tarots like an oracle … I vibe on what the pictures say to me” ???

Or do we mean “I studiied the classical meanings and history . Now I use that knowledge as a platform for my intuition to springboard” ???

 

these both might be called Intuitive Reading … yet they are different approaches.

[Raggydoll]

If I use a significator, then it is done in the same manner that I do it with playing cards. I sometimes use a reduced TdM deck and read it in tableu-style spreads that use the entire deck. I assign either the queen of cups/hearts or the king of cups/hearts as the significator, OR I will use another card which better represents the theme of the reading/question. I do not remove the significator card, I simply look for this card in the tableu and then I focus on the cards next to it. I sometimes have two such significator cards, in case there are two focus areas or if I want to look at specific dynamics. Other times I will

look through the entire deck, locate the significator, and then read the cards on both sides of it in the stack. This can be done before a spread to get a feel for what is going on. You’ll want to shuffle the deck again after doing this, but do take not of these initial cards either by writing them down and/or taking a picture of them. 
 

Oracle decks do have a place in some of my tarot readings, sometimes it is for guidance or for a message from ancestors/guides, but it can also be a source of hope/inspiration or something to avoid etc etc - really there are so many possibilities. The benefit of many oracles are that they speak very clearly and have a focused message. Many have a title or keyword. The downside is that some Oracle decks feel more like aspirational quotes or fluffy pep talk and lack the complexity of tarot cards. 
 

As for reading intuitively, I recommend that you practice listening to your intuition in your daily life and see if you can pinpoint in which ways it speaks to you. Things work differently for different people so don’t get hung up on having it be a certain way. If you’re all focused on receiving an inner nudge or if you’re hoping to receive visions, then you may miss the way your intuition speaks to you (maybe it’s a whisper, a scent, a sign or synchronicity etc). It’s very normal that the signs’ are subtle and barely noticeably at first. Things will get more clear with time. So you’re going to want to trust whatever it is that you’re picking up on, and I encourage you to speak this information out loud. This will make the input stronger and more consistent. Don’t worry about getting it right in the beginning, just get the communication up and going, so to speak. Once you can clearly receive intuitive input then you can start to assess it for accuracy and fine tune your interpretations.

 

Good luck! 

[Chariot]

7 hours ago, Misterei said:

This brings up an interesting point.

What do we mean by reading intuitively?

 

Do we mean “I ignore 600 years of tarot history and read the tarots like an oracle … I vibe on what the pictures say to me” ???

Or do we mean “I studiied the classical meanings and history . Now I use that knowledge as a platform for my intuition to springboard” ???

 

these both might be called Intuitive Reading … yet they are different approaches.

I got the feeling that 'reading intuitively' for many people means 'look at the card pictures ...what do they say to you?'  So—basically—you can do tarot even if you've never encountered it before.  I think there is even a thread on this forum that wants us to just go by what's on the particular card, and not bring in any previous conceptions about that card in other decks.

I'm not saying that approach doesn't work ...it might do.  And it might mean that people can do the tarot without having to memorise (or ingest and digest) traditional tarot concepts.  But once you've studied the tarot to any extent, I don't think it's easy to just forget all you've learned and start again from scratch.  In fact, to be quite honest, I don't see the point.  The whole point of tarot, as a divination/meditation tool, is that it should work for you, the reader.  If it works, it ain't broke ...so no real need to 'fix' it by employing umpteen other systems to arrive at the same result.  That's my attitude, anyway.  Life is short.  I'd rather dig into what tarot offers to me, rather than keep re-inventing the wheel, when it comes to 'systems.'

When a card design in a new deck strays quite far from the 'traditional' RWS meaning, I still find that the traditional meaning informs how I see the new card.  I can certainly incorporate stuff from the new card design, but generally I can't just forget the other designs I've worked with in the past.  That's why some decks don't really resonate with me at all ...if the designs deviate too much from the traditional RWS meaning, I tend to think of those designs as 'bad.'  Unless, of course, they provide a lot of new insight ...and some do.

Edited February 1, 2024 by Chariot

[Chariot]

1 hour ago, Raggydoll said:

I sometimes use a reduced TdM deck and read it in tableu-style spreads that use the entire deck. I assign either the queen of cups/hearts or the king of cups/hearts as the significator, OR I will use another card which better represents the theme of the reading/question. I do not remove the significator card, I simply look for this card in the tableu and then I focus on the cards next to it. I sometimes have two such significator cards, in case there are two focus areas or if I want to look at specific dynamics. Other times I will

look through the entire deck, locate the significator, and then read the cards on both sides of it in the stack. This can be done before a spread to get a feel for what is going on. You’ll want to shuffle the deck again after doing this, but do take not of these initial cards either by writing them down and/or taking a picture of them. 
 

I haven't tried this, but I've read about it.  That's certainly a part of Lenormand practice, and there's no reason it couldn't be applied to tarot, on occasion.  I might give it a go.  Do you decide ahead of time what the cards that appear next to the significator will indicate?  Past, Future, etc?  Or do you just let it flow and figure it out as you go along?

[Raggydoll]

13 minutes ago, Chariot said:

I haven't tried this, but I've read about it.  That's certainly a part of Lenormand practice, and there's no reason it couldn't be applied to tarot, on occasion.  I might give it a go.  Do you decide ahead of time what the cards that appear next to the significator will indicate?  Past, Future, etc?  Or do you just let it flow and figure it out as you go along?

I use a Russian cartomancy method where you only read the cards that touch the significator. I’ve demonstrated this a few times in my journal, using my homemade Pasyans oracle deck. But it works the same with other type of decks. 
 

Here is one where the heart is the significator. This particular deck doesn’t have court cards but I made it so the Heart card stands in for the queen/king of hearts/cups (the method I use always has the courts from the heart/cups suit as significators, it’s the court that is ‘close to the heart’ for the querent. I find that a very simple yet effective method, and it avoids the whole “for unmarried, blond women” yadda yadda). 

 

and here is one with two focus areas and no people-significators. You could certainly replicate this technique with tarot or playing cards 

 

 

[FindYourSovereignty]

10 hours ago, Misterei said:

Or do we mean “I studiied the classical meanings and history . Now I use that knowledge as a platform for my intuition to springboard” ???

This is exactly what I mean. And, as Daniel shares, the very best way to get intuitive hits about a card or a reading is to practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. The closer I get and the more comfortable I get with the tarot itself the closer I get to the cards, the better my intuition kicks in. I personally think it has a lot to do with trusting myself and for me that is how comfortable I am with the cards. And this built up for me with practice. It was necessary for me to trust that I had enough knowledge of what the cards meanings are to be able to even branch out and listen to that intuitive nudge that brings attention to the bridge in the background.

[akiva]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:12 PM, OTarot said:

First question: why (or in what instances) could/should a significator be used?  I understand the concept of it, just wasn't sure when and how it should be used.

I tend to use signifactors the same way across all decks, King/Queen of Hearts/Cups and their thoughts are the Jack of Hearts/Cups. This only changes when I use the Tarocco Bolognese, where the tradition uses the King/Queen of Wands and the Knight of Wands for the Kings thoughts and the Jack of Wands for the Queens thoughts.

 

As for how they're used, the sky's the limit 😁 a lot of the time they are used as an anchor point in a spread. As raggy said regarding tableu style readings, you look at the cards around the significator to see what's going on. You can do the same for the cards that represent home, work, money, travel, etc depending on the question. Older cartomancy methods would count from these cards to create a narrative. 

 

You could use the significators in a way where you turn over cards 3 at a time, stopping when the set of three contains a card that represents the querent. This is often used in Russian cartomancy as an opening to other methods. To read what's on the querents mind.

 

There's lost man style spreads where you hunt through the deck and pull the significator out with cards before and after it to make a line of 3 or 5 or a 9 card box spread.

 

Older star spreads traditionally use a significator and the card crossing it could be seen as "the last say" in a reading. In the Russian Star Spread they used something like 3 or 5 cards across the significator as "what is on their heart". 

It's really all down to imagination and creativity as to how they can be used. 

 

On 1/29/2024 at 1:12 PM, OTarot said:

Last question is more of a comment; what are some good tips and tricks for people learning to read the cards intuitively?

Learn the basic meanings, then keep reading with them. Learn to intuitively apply those written meanings to any situation. Sometimes they are more of a metaphor than literal, other times you may need to get a thesaurus/dictionary out and look at synonyms to grow the base set of meanings or to understand a keyword in a deeper sense. 🤓

 

As others have said, keep practicing until you're comfortable. Eventually the images will talk as much as the written meanings do. You may find the cards have meanings that only apply to you, this is the deck speaking in your language. As you grow in practice, so does your intuition. Results from spreads also speak volumes in knowing what the cards are saying and if they deviate from the 'norm' for you. It all comes with time, patience and repetition. 😊

[Guest]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:55 AM, FindYourSovereignty said:

I also like using the card that connects with their birthdate.

Oooh, I'd like to hear more about that.  My  birthday is in January, which I believe is reflected in Pentacles, so does the card that corresponds to my birthday (02) be the 2 of Pentacles?

 

2. If I use oracle cards with my tarot readings it is usually as an advice card.

 

Ohhh, that's what they're for? The Tarot outlines the situation, the oracle provides advice.  Very nice, thanks for explaining that, I just may pick up a set

 

Heading over to the monthly practice thread next, really looking foward to it.

 

xx

 

[Guest]

On 1/29/2024 at 10:11 AM, DanielJUK said:

There was some threads recently all about this, worth reading through.....

Thanks for the links to the significator threads, lots to think about there.  I like the idea of identifying a card as the significator, then shuffling and looking for the significator, then doing the reading of the cards on either side.  Going to give that one a try, that's for sure.

 

Thanks so much for all your advice!

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Misterei said:

This brings up an interesting point.

What do we mean by reading intuitively?

 

Do we mean “I ignore 600 years of tarot history and read the tarots like an oracle … I vibe on what the pictures say to me” ???

Or do we mean “I studiied the classical meanings and history . Now I use that knowledge as a platform for my intuition to springboard” ???

 

these both might be called Intuitive Reading … yet they are different approaches.

That's a great point, what is intuitive reading.  For my own perspective, reading the cards intuitively means I've learned the basic meanings, so I can now "read" them as a narrative, applying both the knowledge of the meaning of the cards as well as my own experience and intuition.  

 

In other words, I want to be able to shuffle the deck and deal the cards and know what the mean without spending 20 minutes looking up each card :)

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I use a Russian cartomancy method where you only read the cards that touch the significator. I’ve demonstrated this a few times in my journal, using my homemade Pasyans oracle deck. But it works the same with other type of decks. 
 

Here is one where the heart is the significator. This particular deck doesn’t have court cards but I made it so the Heart card stands in for the queen/king of hearts/cups (the method I use always has the courts from the heart/cups suit as significators, it’s the court that is ‘close to the heart’ for the querent. I find that a very simple yet effective method, and it avoids the whole “for unmarried, blond women” yadda yadda). 

 

and here is one with two focus areas and no people-significators. You could certainly replicate this technique with tarot or playing cards 

 

 

 

 

Wow, those are great spreads, I'm definitely going to give it a try.  I love how logical it is.

[Misterei]

7 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

... the very best way to get intuitive hits about a card or a reading is to practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. The closer I get and the more comfortable I get with the tarot itself the closer I get to the cards, the better my intuition kicks in. ...

Yes. When we consider that each of 78 cards might have 20 meanings for different contexts [or whatever] ... we NEED intuition to know which of those meanings applies ... or if this situation is an "outlier" like when Devil recently appeared as positive in my personal yule reading.

 

7 hours ago, akiva said:

There's lost man style spreads where you hunt through the deck and pull the significator out with cards before and after it to make a line of 3 or 5 or a 9 card box spread.

Oh! This is what I call a Signficator Spread. I had no idea it was also called Lost Man. Interesting! @akiva I so appreciate your knowledge of the older spreads.

6 hours ago, OTarot said:

Oooh, I'd like to hear more about that.  My  birthday is in January, which I believe is reflected in Pentacles, so does the card that corresponds to my birthday (02) be the 2 of Pentacles?

In Tarot's tropical zodiac calendar, 2 pents = cardinal earth = capricorn = dec 21-jan 21 [approximately--varies by year]

6 hours ago, OTarot said:

That's a great point, what is intuitive reading.  For my own perspective, reading the cards intuitively means I've learned the basic meanings, so I can now "read" them as a narrative, applying both the knowledge of the meaning of the cards as well as my own experience and intuition.  

In other words, I want to be able to shuffle the deck and deal the cards and know what the mean without spending 20 minutes looking up each card ...

Honestly ... there are various learning methods ... but there is no short cut or hack. It's memorization. Modern tarot teachers often try to sell the false notion that you can learn tarot without memorizing anything.

Ahem. It's when I have all 20 [or whatever] meanings of the card MEMORIZED that my intuition organically and effortlessly says: "this one".

 

But its also more. Like the illustration on THAT deck. My experience of drawing Devil as a positive card related to the picture in the deck I was using. It's also how the cards fall in the spread. The shapes made.

 

I have [and teach] a whole system for doing this ... but it always comes back to practice. Whether you develop your own or learn from a teacher.

The best Jazz musician can jam flawlessly because they spent YEARS practicing scales };>

When I was a dancer I practiced a combo thousands of times to get it to come out right on stage.

Edited February 1, 2024 by Misterei

[akiva]

46 minutes ago, Misterei said:

Oh! This is what I call a Signficator Spread. I had no idea it was also called Lost Man. Interesting! @akiva I so appreciate your knowledge of the older spreads.

Don't quote me on that name as I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure it's called that. I think it may be lenormand circles that call it that, but my head's too full of methods to remember exactly! 😉

There's a ton of variations to it, and a lot of the time it isn't even given a name! It's just done as part of a method.

[FindYourSovereignty]

8 hours ago, OTarot said:

Oooh, I'd like to hear more about that.  My  birthday is in January, which I believe is reflected in Pentacles, so does the card that corresponds to my birthday (02) be the 2 of Pentacles?

 

That’s not quite how I do that. There are a few different options. My favorite approach is from Carrie Paris’s Relative Tarot. 
 

The Month’s astrology sign element matched to the element assigned to the suit (not all readers or card creators use the same element for each suit, but that’s another subject) and the querent’s age determines whether the card is Page, Knight, Queen/King. Of course this is all flexible as the person may be 55 and just starting college or going back to school, but this is a general approach. 

So for yours it would be Queen of Pentacles.

 

8 hours ago, OTarot said:

 

2. If I use oracle cards with my tarot readings it is usually as an advice card.

 

Ohhh, that's what they're for? The Tarot outlines the situation, the oracle provides advice.  Very nice, thanks for explaining that, I just may pick up a set

 

Yes, for me this is what oracle cards are used for - how I use them. Some people read oracle cards paired with each tarot card or as a separate divination system all together. I haven’t gone the root of reading them solo. Maybe one day, but not anytime soon. 
 

8 hours ago, OTarot said:

 

Heading over to the monthly practice thread next, really looking foward to it.

 

xx

 

 

Not sure which monthly practice circle is on your radar, but this is a direct link to the intuitive (ISG) one. 
 

 

Maybe I will see you there.