Different Thoth Correspondences and Attribution Methods

[Flegetanis]

"The Key to this Message is this word - Will. The first obvious meaning of this Law is confirmed by antithesis; 'The word of Sin is Restriction.'

Again: 'Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay.'"

 

https://sacred-texts.com/oto/lib2.htm

Edited March 3, 2024 by Flegetanis
attribution

[gregory]

Still no insult.

[joy]

Can we all please go back to the Topic at hand? Thank you very much. 🙂

[DanielJUK]

We just wanted to remind everyone that the first rule of the forum is to 'respect one another', you don't have to agree with another member but please show them respect. This includes respecting other opinions, even if you think they are wrong. The wonderful thing about a forum are the discussions and differences of opinion. We can hold different views and beliefs about deck and deck systems and keep it from going personal.

[Aeon418]

A reminder: This tread is titled, "Talk to me about the Thoth" [Tarot]. At the risk of being thought obstinate, I believe it is only fair to treat the Thoth Tarot, and the influences that went into its creation, as subjects in their own right. To this end I believe Aleister Crowley's ideas have primacy. This includes his view on Qabalah. 

 

The clearest and most succinct statement on Crowley's conception of Qabalah is in my opinion to be found in his Little Essays Towards Truth. (The added emphasis in this quote is mine.) 

 

Quote

Man is a microcosm: that is, an image (concentrated around the point of consciousness) of the macrocosm, or Universe. This Theorem is guaranteed by the hylo-idealistic demonstration that the perceptible Universe is an extension, or phantasm, of the nervous system.

 

It follows that all phenomena, internal and external, may be classified for the purpose of discussing their observed relations, in any manner which experience may show to be the most convenient. (Examples: the elaborate classifications of science, chemical, physical, etc., etc. There is no essential truth in any of these aids to thinking: convenience is the sole measure.) Now for the purposes of analysing the spiritual nature of man, of recording and measuring his experiences in this kind, of planning his progress to loftier heights of attainment, several systems have been devised. That of the Abhidhamma is on the surface alike the most practical, the most scientific, and the most real; but for European students it is certainly far too unwieldly, to say nothing of other lines of criticism.

 

Therefore, despite the danger of vagueness involved in the use of a system whose terms are largely symbolic, I have, for many reasons, preferred to present to the world as an international basis for classification, the classico-mathematical system which is vulgarly and erroneously (though conveniently) called the Qabalah.

 

The Qabalah, that is, the Jewish Tradition concerning the initiated interpretation of their Scriptures, is mostly either unintelligible or nonsense. But it contains as it ground-plan the most precious jewel of human thought, that geometrical arrangement of names and numbers which is called the Tree of Life. I call it the most precious, because I have found it the most convenient method hitherto discovered of classifying the phenomena of the Universe, and recording their relations. Whereof the proof is the amazing fertility of thought which has followed my adoption of this scheme.

 

Since all phenomena soever may be referred to the Tree of Life (which may be multiplied or subdivided at will for convenience' sake) it is evidently useless to attempt any complete account of it. The correspondences of each unit—the Ten Sephiroth and the Two-and-Twenty Paths—are infinite. The art of using it consists principally in referring all our ideas to it, discovering thus the common nature of certain things and the essential differences between others, so that ultimately one obtains a simple view of the incalculably vast complexity of the Universe.

 

The whole subject must be studied in the Book 777, and the main attributions committed to memory: then when by constant use the system is at last understood—as opposed to being merely memorised—the student will find fresh light break in on him at every turn as he continues to measure every item of new knowledge that he attains by this Standard. For to him the Universe will then begin to appear as a coherent and a necessary Whole.

 

One can only breathe a sigh of relief that Crowley adopted the Tree of Life over the Buddhist Abhidhamma as his system of classification. But it should be born in mind that "(t)here is no essential truth in any of these aids to thinking: convenience is the sole measure." The Golden Dawn variety of Hermetic Qabalah that Crowley used is one among many convenient systems of classification. None of them representing "essential truth." But the fact of the matter is that Crowley only ever used that one system. The Thoth Tarot is a pictorial representation of that system filtered through the lens of the Law of Thelema. I believe it should be treated as such.

 

Attempts to co-opt the Thoth Tarot into different systems that were never used by Crowley are possible. Although I would argue that such reformulations really require a completely new Tarot of their own. However, I feel that such discussions would be much better placed in the Esoteric Tarot sub-forum. Ideas of this kind can then be promulgated (as opposed to proselytized) without causing unnecessary and needless confusion caused by the introduction of systems that did not play a part in the creation of the Thoth Tarot.      

Edited March 3, 2024 by Aeon418
Typo

[gregory]

2 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

 

Attempts to co-opt the Thoth Tarot into different systems that were never used by Crowley are possible. Although I would argue that such reformulations really require a completely new Tarot of their own. However, I feel that such discussions would be much better placed in the Esoteric Tarot sub-forum. Ideas of this kind can then be promulgated (as opposed to proselytized) without causing unnecessary and needless confusion caused by the introduction of systems that did not play a part in the creation of the Thoth Tarot. 

 

Yes indeed. Thank you.

[Flegetanis]

3 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

A reminder: This tread is titled, "Talk to me about the Thoth" [Tarot]. At the risk of being thought obstinate, I believe it is only fair to treat the Thoth Tarot, and the influences that went into its creation, as subjects in their own right. To this end I believe Aleister Crowley's ideas have primacy. This includes his view on Qabalah. 

 

The clearest and most succinct statement on Crowley's conception of Qabalah is in my opinion to be found in his Little Essays Towards Truth. (The added emphasis in this quote is mine.) 

 

 

3 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

One can only breathe a sigh of relief that Crowley adopted the Tree of Life over the Buddhist Abhidhamma as his system of classification. But it should be born in mind that "(t)here is no essential truth in any of these aids to thinking: convenience is the sole measure." The Golden Dawn variety of Hermetic Qabalah that Crowley used is one among many convenient systems of classification. None of them representing "essential truth." But the fact of the matter is that Crowley only ever used that one system. The Thoth Tarot is a pictorial representation of that system filtered through the lens of the Law of Thelema. I believe it should be treated as such.

 

Attempts to co-opt the Thoth Tarot into different systems that were never used by Crowley are possible. Although I would argue that such reformulations really require a completely new Tarot of their own. However, I feel that such discussions would be much better placed in the Esoteric Tarot sub-forum. Ideas of this kind can then be promulgated (as opposed to proselytized) without causing unnecessary and needless confusion caused by the introduction of systems that did not play a part in the creation of the Thoth Tarot.      

 

At no point did I try to "co-opt the Thoth Tarot into different systems," nor did I ever try to "superimpose [my] own stuff" onto it. All I did was criticize that dang Zodiac loop; I'm always looking for a reasonable explanation for that. If it works, why does it only work with one set of Path attributions? Is that what you call "co-opting"? I just think it would make some sense across the board. I don't think asking about that is "superimposing" my own "stuff" on to the Thoth. 

[Flegetanis]

I'm just saying... A major paradigm shift like that, and it only works in one Path system? Not really the best way to start off an AEon! 😛 

[Aeon418]

5 hours ago, Flegetanis said:

I'm just saying... A major paradigm shift like that, and it only works in one Path system? Not really the best way to start off an AEon! 😛 

 

At the risk of repeating myself, nobody is saying that other systems of interconnected symbolism can't be devised and used with the Thoth Tarot. But the fact of the matter is that Crowley only ever used the Golden Dawn system. His magical writings are framed within the symbolic matrix of Golden Dawn correspondences. And the inspired writings he 'received' were filtered through that conceptual framework. 

 

The Thoth Tarot that Crowley designed and Frieda Harris illustrated is a pictorial representation of that system of symbolism. Our understanding of it is in direct proportion to the sympathy we have with the symbols used in its design.

 

Just like this post, I am able to communicate my thought to anyone that reads it through the use of arbitrary symbols called letters, that are structured in a commonly agreed upon cypher called English. Trying to interpret these English 'word symbols' as if they were written in a different language will result in a very different meaning or no meaning at all.    

Edited March 5, 2024 by Aeon418

[Flegetanis]

There are indications that the original Paths did have some influence on the Golden Dawn system.

[Flegetanis]

9 hours ago, Aeon418 said:

The Thoth Tarot that Crowley designed and Frieda Harris illustrated is a pictorial representation of that system of symbolism. Our understanding of it is in direct proportion to the sympathy we have with the symbols used in its design.

 

Just like this post, I am able to communicate my thought to anyone that reads it through the use of arbitrary symbols called letters, that are structured in a commonly agreed upon cypher called English. Trying to interpret these English 'word symbols' as if they were written in a different language will result in a very different meaning or no meaning at all.    

 

Perhaps I didn't understand that this conversation is limited only to the actual cards of the Crowley-Harris Thoth designs, rather than the the paradigms for the New Aeon revealed in them, and in The Book Of Thoth. As I have stated, my post was a question/criticism concerning the zodiacal loop "dogma" revealed in The Book Of Thoth, and how it is applied in the Thoth deck and every ostensibly Thelemic deck afterwards, as opposed to specifically just the Crowley/Harris renditions of the cards IV: The Emperor & XVII: The Star.

 

There's actually a lot of writing on this, it's not just me. I just happen to have an additional fire by which to try the matter. For example, there is J. Edward Cornelius' An Open Epistle on Crowley’s Zodiac Belt on his "Red Flame" website.

There's also an interesting Reddit thread about it entitled "Thoth tarot loop problem visualized with solution" -- the fact that there exists a recognizable "Thoth tarot loop problem" was & is my only point. Any comments about my own system (which were only provided to show the particular conundrum I'm in) should have been no cause for offense. The way that loop is published in The Book of Thoth just doesn't make sense. I'm not stomping my feet insisting Tzadi IS The Star; I just stomped them a bit about the fact that none of this clearly justifies separating Tzadi from the attribution of Aquarius.

Edited March 5, 2024 by Flegetanis

[gregory]

I've read that reddit thread - it was interesting but significantly flawed. Not least some misprints in the Book of Thoth. I think Aeon is far better placed to dissect that thread in detail. But yes, this thread was about the deck itself and Crowley;s writings on it. You've started other threads where it would perhaps be more appropriate to discuss the paradigms for the New Aeon.

[Aeon418]

4 hours ago, Flegetanis said:

I'm not stomping my feet insisting Tzadi IS The Star; I just stomped them a bit about the fact that none of this clearly justifies separating Tzadi from the attribution of Aquarius.

 

So we're right back to Tzaddi and Aquarius can't be separated because, ...... because, ..... because, ..... well, because they just can't and that's that. *bangs gavel* Right to appeal denied. Case closed!

 

Symbolism by definition symbolises "something." Unless this whole discussion revolves around nothing more then moving meaningless tokens around on a game board while looking for pretty patterns, then the underlying reasons behind the symbolism must be of paramount importance.

 

Since this issue was first raised, I assume you have gone back and read through J. Daniel Gunther's very detailed explanation and justification for the change of correspondences. (Initiation in the Aeon of the Child, chapter 5 - Christeos Luciftias.) What exactly do you object to in his explanation of the underlying meaning behind the symbolism? I can only assume you must find something objectionable or wrong in Gunther's explanation. Something that justifies the maintenance of the status quo. What?

 

The whole trouble with the "Tzaddi is not the Star" issue is that it is routinely approached ass-backwards. The subject is treated as if it exists in a complete vacuum of meaning, where meaningless counters of no value are ordered in a particular way simply because .......

 

Could it be that your personal home-brew system would be disturbed by any change? 

[DanielJUK]

This thread has been split off from this discussion thread to start it's own topic....

 

[Flegetanis]

On 3/5/2024 at 4:25 PM, gregory said:

I've read that reddit thread - it was interesting but significantly flawed. Not least some misprints in the Book of Thoth. I think Aeon is far better placed to dissect that thread in detail. But yes, this thread was about the deck itself and Crowley;s writings on it. You've started other threads where it would perhaps be more appropriate to discuss the paradigms for the New Aeon.

 

And here we are. The diagram of the Zodiac Loop is not a misprint.

[Aeon418]

40 minutes ago, Flegetanis said:

So... No discussion, just submit to (your interpretation) of The Doctrine. So much for "Thou hast no right but to do thy will."

 

It seems to me there is very little room for discussion when a particular recension of a repeatedly edited text - the Sepher Yetzirah - is used as the final word on what is, or is not possible. We are presented with a fate accompli and a Sacred Cow worthy of a certain bumper sticker popular with evangelical Christians.

 

Regarding the double loop. Crowley's starting point is the Golden Dawn Tarot attributions. Using that system it is possible to place the cards sequentially on the Tree of Life, starting on the 11th path with card 0 and ending on the 32nd path with card XXI, without a single break in the sequence. But this is only made possible by making the Strength card VIII and the Justice card XI. Crowley creates the first loop by simply switching the Roman numerals on those two cards. Now when we start placing cards of the Tree of Life once again we are required to place the renumbered card XI (Strength) on the 19th path before placing the renumbered card VIII (Justice) on the 22nd path.

 

The most simple way to balance this loop in the sequence is to switch the Roman numerals of cards IV and XVII. (The Emperor becomes XVII and the Star becomes IV) And there is some evidence that Crowley may have considered this. But this like-for-like switch of card numbers would still leave the letter Tzaddi with the Star card on the 28th path. To Crowley this obviously did not fulfil the requirements of Liber AL, I:57. ".... All these old letters of my Book are aright; but צ is not the Star." However, I believe it is this kind of literal symmetry that many people still expect to see in the double loop, even though Crowley made a change of a different kind.

 

The Golden Dawn's renumbering of cards VIII and XI revolves around the obvious identity between the sign of Leo with the Strength card, and the sign of Libra with the Justice card, and a desire to make the Tarot numeral sequence match the order of the zodiac. Crowley continues this tradition of identifying specific cards with their respective zodiac sign. This is what gives the Woman on the Star card her characteristic "water bearer" design. While the Emperor is the head-strong and energetic Ram of Aries. Consequently, the zodiac signs stay with cards. Otherwise this would necessitate a complete redesign of the cards in question. This is where Crowley parts company with the Sepher Yetzirah and its correspondence of zodiac signs to Hebrew letters. So when Crowley eventually attributed the Star and the Emperor cards to different letters, it was because he literally saw the cards as the signs they represented

 

So now when we start placing cards on the Tree of Life we get card XVII - The Star on the 15th path were we would normally expect to see card IV according the Golden Dawn. Continuing on down to the 19th path we find card XI - Lust (Strength) where we would expect to find card VIII. On the 22nd path we find card VIII - Adjustment (Justice) where we would expect card XI. And finally on the 28th path we have card IV - The Emperor where we previously expected to see the Star.     

[gregory]

8 hours ago, Flegetanis said:

 

And here we are. The diagram of the Zodiac Loop is not a misprint.

I didn't' say where the misprint was. But since you mention it:  

 

The Ordo Templi Orientis republished The Heart of the Master back in 1992. For that revised edition they included pictures of the Thoth Trumps opposite each the verse summaries. But they also transposed the verses for cards IV and XVII.

On page 58 the Emperor card appears opposite "IV - Use all thine energy, etc., etc."

While on page 84 the Star appears opposite "XVII - Pour water on theyself, etc."

This is the kind of editorial revision that should have been in the Book of Thoth. But Crowley, working without an editor during war time, must have missed it. It's an easy mistake to make.

 

The thread was split, by the way, so that those who simply want to discuss the deck itself don't have to scroll through this discussion on the side. It's not as if they have deleted any of your posts, and it happens quite often, to keep things on topic. You are still "doing your will" in a new thread. What's the problem with that ?

[Aeon418]

J. Daniel Gunther on the subject of the Roman Numerals on the 'switched cards.'

 

Quote

In balancing the attributions of Tarot, by switching Tzaddi and Heh, one must wonder why Crowley did not switch the Roman Numerals of the Trumps as was done with Atu VIII (Lamed) and Atu XI (Teth) If he had followed the same procedure, The Star would have received the number IV in addition to (Tzaddi), and The Emperor assigned the number XVII along with (Heh). Yet, both Trumps in question still retain their original Roman Numerals. The implication is that the numbers as attributed have vital significance.

Furthermore, since the astrological attributions are not involved in this exchange, it becomes apparent that the meaning lies with the Hebrew letters themselves. We must ask ourselves why Tzaddi cannot effectively represent the Star in the New Aeon.

 

Gunther, J. Daniel. Initiation in the Aeon of the Child: The Inward Journey (pp. 103-104). Nicolas-Hays, Inc. Kindle Edition.

 

Gunther covers cards IV and XVII in his book. So maybe a look at the dynamics of the XI - VIII loop might help.

 

In Crowley's view the Roman Numeral of Lust/Strength must be XI, 11, because of its numeric associations with Magick and union or "love under will" via 5+6 =11 (where 5 is the microcosm and 6 the macrocosm). Also 11 is AUD, the magick light or la Force, identified with the Serpent power that is continually transmuted through love (union) under will. This "force" is a blind lust to unite with all experiences and must be harnessed and directed to fulfil the true nature of the being capable of riding it. Previously 11 was seen as the number of Evil. But Crowley thought the New Aeon would herald an era in which there would be a kind of Nitzschean "transvaluation of all values." (Cf. Crowley's comment on the 10 horns/serpents at the top of the Lust card. BoT p.95)

 

Quote

Liber 418, 16th Aethyr: "Woe unto me that am cast down from my place by the might of the new Aeon. For the ten palaces are broken, and the ten kings are carried away into bondage, and they are set to fight as the gladiators in the circus of him that hath laid his hand upon eleven."

 

That which was previously considered "forbidden fruit" is, in Crowley's view, now becoming available to an evolving humanity that is progressively becoming capable of harnessing it. However, "Do what thou wilt" does not mean do what you want. "Let the Scarlet Woman beware!" The individual soul (Heh-final, the Daughter) rides in safety relative to her "Chastity" towards the Beast. (Note her gaze on the actual card.) That which will elevate her to the Throne of her Mother (Binah, the City of the Pyramids) will also devour her should she seek to redirect her focus towards selfish ends. This is why she holds aloft the Holy Grail into which the individual life must be poured without holding back a single drop. Otherwise the empowering Beast 666 may transform once again in the Adversary that he once was.

 

Quote

1 Peter. 5:8. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

  

Crowley saw the number VIII, 8, as symbolising the economy of a universe in which there is no separation. Everything is connected to everything else. Even the smallest act has consequences that reverberate out through the universe requiring constant Adjustment.

 

Quote

The Book of Thoth: "It is impossible to drop a pin without exciting a corresponding reaction in every Star. The action has disturbed the balance of the Universe."

 

Obviously this is not quite the human concept of Justice with its associated ideas of fairness and equity. This is closer a kind of cosmic Law. A law that includes our own actions. And this is where the Lust and Adjustment cards are intimately united or 'looped.' The 'energized enthusiasm' symbolised by Atu XI - Lust, has far greater potential to tip the balance of the Universe. This is why She holds the Sword of Thelema between her thighs to correct any imbalance not directed towards the complete "Satisfaction of the Woman." Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will.

 

Quote

The Book of Thoth: "This is again a hieroglyph of “Love is the law, love under will”. Every form of energy must be directed, must be applied with integrity, to the full satisfaction of its destiny."

 

"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Indeed! 😬

 

Quote

AL, I:52. " .... if the ritual be not ever unto me: then expect the direful judgments of Ra Hoor Khuit!"

AL, I:53. "This shall regenerate the world, the little world my sister, my heart & my tongue, unto whom I send this kiss. Also, o scribe and prophet, though thou be of the princes, it shall not assuage thee nor absolve thee. But ecstasy be thine and joy of earth: ever To me! To me!"

 

Edited March 7, 2024 by Aeon418
Typo

[Flegetanis]

Indeed, as per Adjustment: "Nature is not just, according to any theological or ethical idea; but Nature is exact."  My first decks were not based on the RWS, so I learned Justice as 8 & Strength as 11. There's a certain even-numbered, simple symmetry to the number Eight that fits Justice/Adjustment well, but there are also merits (for me, at least) in starting the second half of the simple Major Arcana sequence with it -- but none of those rationales are directly based on Liber AL or any other "Class A" material.

 

Edited March 10, 2024 by Flegetanis

[Aeon418]

7 hours ago, Flegetanis said:

My first decks were not based on the RWS, so I learned Justice as 8 & Strength as 11. There's a certain even-numbered, simple symmetry to the number Eight that fits Justice/Adjustment well, but there are also merits (for me, at least) in starting the second half of the simple Major Arcana sequence with it -- but none of those rationales are directly based on Liber AL or any other "Class A" material.

 

There is a suggestion of a Lemniscate on the Lust card, that is formed by the unusual posture of the Beast, the backward leaning pose of the Scarlet Woman, and the reins that she holds. Or it's equally possible to interpret the composite figure as a stylised Mark of the Beast. Then again, it may not be there at all. It is suggestive though.

 

Is something similar being hinted at on the Adjustment card that points to the number 11? I can see several possibilities. Either way, it all points to the close connection between cards XI and VIII. Is it possible that this close, almost inseparable connection between the two cards is found in their sum? XI + VIII = XIX - The Sun, being an image of the Will to Be or to continually Become, in perfect and harmonious balance with the environment or body of Nuit. Heru-Ra-Ha.

 

A similar sum with the other two looped cards is equally suggestive. IV + XVII = XXI - The Universe. In light of J. Daniel Gunther's assertion that this particular card swap has Messianic implications through the revealed links to the Messiah and the Serpent (both 358). This in turn suggests a resolution of Genesis 3:15.

 

Pure speculation of course.     

[Flegetanis]

36 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

Is something similar being hinted at on the Adjustment card that points to the number 11? I can see several possibilities. Either way, it all points to the close connection between cards XI and VIII. Is it possible that this close, almost inseparable connection between the two cards is found in their sum? XI + VIII = XIX - The Sun, being an image of the Will to Be or to continually Become, in perfect and harmonious balance with the environment or body of Nuit. Heru-Ra-Ha.

 

The symmetry of the Scales alone make me think of the verses in Sefer Yetzirah;

 

Ten Sefirot of Nothingness: The number of the ten fingers, five opposite five, with a single covenant precisely in the middle, like the circumcision of the tongue and the circumcision of the membrum. [SY 1:3]

 

Three Mothers, Alef Mem Shin: Their foundation is the pan of liability, the pan of merit, and the tongue of decree deciding between them. [SY 3:1]

 

[Aeon418]

Or Thelemic Covenant for a Thelemic deck.

 

Quote   7.    For two things are done and a third thing is begun. Isis and Osiris are given over to incest and adultery. Horus leaps up thrice armed from the womb of his mother. Harpocrates his twin is hidden within him. Set is his holy covenant, that he shall display in the great day of M.A.A.T., that is being interpreted the Master of the Temple of A∴A∴, whose name is Truth.

[Aeon418]

The Book of Thoth, p.118. - The Universe.

Quote

In the present card she is represented as a dancing figure. In her hands she manipulates the radiant spiral force, the active and passive, each possessing its dual polarity. Her dancing partner is shown as Heru-Ra-Ha of Atu XIX.

“The Sun, Strength & Sight, Light; these are for the servants of the Star & the Snake.”

 

"Her dancing partner is shown as Heru-Ra-Ha of Atu XIX." VIII + XI = XIX - The Sun, Heru-Ra-Ha.

 

'She' herself is shown with a square nimbus of light around her head, confirming her identity as the Daughter, Heh-Final.

Heh - Window - Atu XVII, The Star. "The Mother is the Daughter, the Daughter is the Mother."

 

While in her right hand she holds the Fish hook of Tzaddi and Atu IV, The Emperor. XVII + IV = XXI - The Universe. 

 

Edited March 11, 2024 by Aeon418

[Flegetanis]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:33 PM, Aeon418 said:

It seems to me there is very little room for discussion when a particular recension of a repeatedly edited text - the Sepher Yetzirah - is used as the final word on what is, or is not possible. We are presented with a fate accompli and a Sacred Cow worthy of a certain bumper sticker popular with evangelical Christians.   

 

I never said anything was the "final word" on anything. You did. It's pretty much clear that you're sticking to "Thelemic Doctrine," while I am presenting the alternative.

I do consider Sefer Yetzirah to be the "final word" on Sefer Yetzirah correspondences & attributions. Thus, a change in a Tarot attribution doesn't change the essential correspondence of a letter; Tzadi is Aquarius no matter what the edition or recension. Besides, if Aquarius is not The Star, that resolves any issue regarding the Double Loop illustration. And there's absolutely no reason to be condescending or insulting about it.

 

 

[Flegetanis]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:35 PM, Aeon418 said:

Attempts to co-opt the Thoth Tarot into different systems that were never used by Crowley are possible.

 

There's ample evidence that the Golden Dawn was well aware of the system of Path attributions I use. Again, it's not new; in fact it precedes Kircher by at least 8 centuries. I've been informed that "everything changes" in the R.R. et A.C. Perhaps the Kircher path system was just a blind for the outer order? I'm not sure if that's in the A,'.A.'. I don't know if Crowley ever made it into the order of Adepts in a "regular" (in the Masonic sense) fashion. 

 

I've already shared some illustrations regarding the Caduceus & the 3 Mother letters.  The division of the "Orders" in the HOGD/RRetAC system corresponds exactly to the original attribution of the Three Mother letters to the 3 horizontal paths. Is it possible that moving up in from one order to another restored the original path attributions?

 

The so-called "Veil of Paroketh" is another; the very term references the original attributions of the vertical Paths. So these attributions are to be found, buried in the HOGD material.