Do You Believe in Free Will or Fate in Your Tarot Readings?

[RickInBakersfield]

Is the tarot a predetermined oracle or does one believe they have a free will?

 

I've heard both points of view and I am not sure what to believe. Do you tell your sitter that the future is set in stone?

 

What are your thoughts on this? Simple question.

 

Just curious?

Edited November 12, 2024 by RickInBakersfield
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[Raggydoll]

I know this topic has been discussed before. Hmm, let’s see  *doing a forum search*

 

yes indeed

 

oh and this might also be of interest 

 

I would say that my thoughts on this has pretty much remained the same since then 🙂

[RickInBakersfield]

8 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

I know this topic has been discussed before. Hmm, let’s see  *doing a forum search*

 

yes indeed

 

oh and this might also be of interest 

 

I would say that my thoughts on this has pretty much remained the same since then 🙂

Sorry, I forgot to do a search...thanks for the threads!

[FindYourSovereignty]

No need to apologize, @RickInBakersfield. It’s okay to start your own thread, but the old ones may interest you to read through. 
 

Besides, it is possible, as we grow in our cartomancy journey we could have changed our thoughts on this. 
 

This is an interesting question. Is fate what happens when we continue along the current path and free will is when we choose to change the path? Or is it fate that we chose to make a change? 😊 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I never tell the sitter that the future is set it in stone because I don’t believe it is. 

 

 

[Misterei]

 

8 hours ago, RickInBakersfield said:

Is the tarot a predetermined oracle or does one believe they have a free will?

... Do you tell your sitter that the future is set in stone?

Both. I've never seen a conflict of fate vs. free will. Some life circumstances are fated. Others we have agency over. NO ONE gets to chose their parents, birth location, etc. These things affect our lives in fated ways. Likewise fated events such as wars or accidents. However, against this backdrop of fate, we make 1001 small decisions every day which are free will. These small free will decisions can and do affect our life condition.

 

I think any reader who tells a fortune as *fated* is doing malpractice. We've seen some of the bad effects right here on this site where a person gets told they have a fate of bad relationships [or whatever] and the person spins-out into emotional and spiritual turmoil b/c of this reading malpractice. Yuck.

4 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I never tell the sitter that the future is set it in stone because I don’t believe it is.

Nor can it be. The stars may align for a certain event to happen, but if a person makes one of those 1001 small decisions that negate the possibility -- well, now the outcome has changed. A recent example that deeply moved me was a young person who planned to attend the Oct 7 festival where the attack happened. She planned to go with a group, but their driver cancelled. She MIGHT have found another ride and thus been injured or killed. But she decided to let it go and stay home.

 

A reading while she still planned to attend the festival would have shown terrible cards and grave danger directly to her. A reading after she chose not to find another ride would have shown more benefic cards of danger averted. Hypothetically such a reading would show grief in her future [friends who died] but it would not show direct attack or death to herself.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Misterei

[Scandinavianhermit]

I often use a spread which is supposed to show what will happen if "the client" doesn't change anything and what will happen if "the client" make another decision. It is supposed to identify options, so it isn't deterministic. 

 

I'm a Lenormand newbie. It behaves more harshly than my tarot decks and my playing card decks.

[FindYourSovereignty]

22 minutes ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I'm a Lenormand newbie. It behaves more harshly than my tarot decks and my playing card decks.

I am looking to learning Lenormand in the future for this very reason. 

[Scandinavianhermit]

22 minutes ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I am looking to learning Lenormand in the future for this very reason. 

The book I was recommended almost a year ago was Andy Boroveshengra's Lenormand Thirty Six Cards: An Introduction to Petit Lenormand (2014, 2015). I'm re-reading it and studying it slowly. Other regional and family methods of reading Lenormand do exist, but they are all ultimately rooted in a set of interpretions from c. 1850 (which is included in an appendix in Borovoshengra's book).

[FindYourSovereignty]

3 minutes ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

The book I was recommended almost a year ago was Andy Boroveshengra's Lenormand Thirty Six Cards: An Introduction to Petit Lenormand (2014, 2015). I'm re-reading it and studying it slowly. Other regional and family methods of reading Lenormand do exist, but they are all ultimately rooted in a set of interpretions from c. 1850 (which is included in an appendix in Borovoshengra's book).

Thank you for sharing this. I will look into getting a copy. 

[Misterei]

4 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I'm a Lenormand newbie. It behaves more harshly than my tarot decks and my playing card decks.

I've found that LN can be quite blunt and literal. Sometimes tarots are harsh or have a wicked sense of humor. LN also has a sense of humor almost like puns [for me, anyway]. Going back to free will vs. fate topic, LN definitely is more of a fortune telling deck whereas Tarots bring a spiritual dimension. LN says "this is it" Tarot says, "these are the spiritual and energetic forces creating the situation/future" Just my take. Others see it differently I'm sure.

Edited November 13, 2024 by Misterei

[FindYourSovereignty]

6 hours ago, Misterei said:

LN definitely is more of a fortune telling deck whereas Tarots bring a spiritual dimension. LN says "this is it" Tarot says, "these are the spiritual and energetic forces creating the situation/future" Just my take. Others see it differently I'm sure.

Although I have not yet played with LN, this has been my sense between the two as well. I look forward to discovering my experience with it in the future.

 

10 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

Andy Boroveshengra's Lenormand Thirty Six Cards: An Introduction to Petit Lenormand (2014, 2015)

I have ordered and hope to receive it soon. Thank you again for the recommendation.

[DanielJUK]

We are sliding into a discussion about Lenormand, when there is a whole section for newbies to it over there 🙂 

Let's get back to discussing Free Will vs Fate in our tarot readings

[FindYourSovereignty]

My apologies, @DanielJUK! 🤦🏻‍♀️😊

 

Although I do believe that somewhere/somehow before birth we are paired with our parents/children for a reason, @Misterei’s post above resonates with me. Our birth time and location has fated elements to a person’s life journey. Can tarot bring these fated elements up? Yes, I believe so. Tarot also brings up the many opportunities and options of free will choices we can make with and around these fated elements. 
 

23 hours ago, RickInBakersfield said:

Is the tarot a predetermined oracle or does one believe they have a free will?

 

I don’t feel it is one or the other. They are intertwined for me.

[RickInBakersfield]

There is a very interesting guy on YouTube who has a bunch on videos on why free will is an illusion.

 

His name is Robert Sapolsky. I've pasted one of his videos here...

 

 

Rick

[FindYourSovereignty]

Interesting! Thank you for sharing the link.

[RickInBakersfield]

6 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

Interesting! Thank you for sharing the link.

No problem.

 

After doing some research on the concept that free will is an illusion, I've come to believe that too.

 

If I ever get asked about this by a sitter, I am currently in the process of coming up with easy to understand "script" (for lack of a better word), or soundbites that present my views on the subject.

 

I'll come back here and post my script & soundbites this thread.

[RickInBakersfield]

This is what I believe now in a nutshell (I've copied & pasted half the article here), it's from Glyn Williams on Quora.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A string puppet is not considered to be free, because all of its actions are controlled by strings. (Even if the strings are hard to see).

But a human being has no visible strings, so we assume we are free. There are no external constraints controlling every action.

But it turns out this is not true.

Each decision we make is actually the result of some internal process which was forced by prior events. And those prior events were shaped by something before. So, while the decision FEELS free, it is completely constrained by what went before. There are strings. But the strings are chains of cause and effect.

If what we do is driven by the past that is not freedom, because the past is fixed and cannot be influenced by our will.

 

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I think most sitters can understand that.

I've pasted the brief topic here,

What is the concept of 'free will'? Is it an illusion? If it is, why does it exist in our brains if not for anything real? - Quora

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024 by RickInBakersfield
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[Little Fang]

Free Will is a big component in how I explain future predictions to clients.

A reading is a snapshot of what can become in the current trajectory, but a person's choices and actions can affect the outcome depending on how hard they change course. 

I strongly believe in free will. There may be some static influences that might bring something about, but we are our own creatures with our own minds that do our own things.

[FindYourSovereignty]

2 hours ago, RickInBakersfield said:

This is what I believe now in a nutshell (I've copied & pasted half the article here), it's from Glyn Williams on Quora.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A string puppet is not considered to be free, because all of its actions are controlled by strings. (Even if the strings are hard to see).

But a human being has no visible strings, so we assume we are free. There are no external constraints controlling every action.

But it turns out this is not true.

Each decision we make is actually the result of some internal process which was forced by prior events. And those prior events were shaped by something before. So, while the decision FEELS free, it is completely constrained by what went before. There are strings. But the strings are chains of cause and effect.

If what we do is driven by the past that is not freedom, because the past is fixed and cannot be influenced by our will.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think most sitters can understand that.

I've pasted the brief topic here,

What is the concept of 'free will'? Is it an illusion? If it is, why does it exist in our brains if not for anything real? - Quora

 

 

 

 

@RickInBakersfield, this sounds like conditioning to me and the whole point of healing and shifting and transforming our lives is to grow out of the conditioning. As I shared previously, I believe Free Will is the choice to stay where one is at or to change. A puppet has no mind to think about the strings and detach or sever them: A human does. 
 

I am not sure I understand your need to even say this to a sitter. 

 

1 hour ago, Little Fang said:

Free Will is a big component in how I explain future predictions to clients.

A reading is a snapshot of what can become in the current trajectory, but a person's choices and actions can affect the outcome depending on how hard they change course. 

I strongly believe in free will. There may be some static influences that might bring something about, but we are our own creatures with our own minds that do our own things.

This ^^^

 

If nothing else we have the Free Will to change our perspective which ultimately changes how we experience whatever fated scenario we are faced with. 

[RickInBakersfield]

4 hours ago, Little Fang said:

Free Will is a big component in how I explain future predictions to clients.

A reading is a snapshot of what can become in the current trajectory, but a person's choices and actions can affect the outcome depending on how hard they change course. 

I strongly believe in free will. There may be some static influences that might bring something about, but we are our own creatures with our own minds that do our own things.

Little Fang,

 

I have only been exposed to this "free will is an illusion" philosophy for a few weeks now after watching some YouTube videos and doing some reading online.

It has a ring of truth to it for me.

 

If you read my Card-A-Day Journal in the closed club on here, you'll see my approach and how I use the meanings of the cards and how I use the symbolism of the cards for my sitters. I am guessing that my approach is pretty similar to others on the forum.

 

HOW I am going to implement my new ideas is a mystery to me. I guess it will be something in the back of my mind as I continue to do readings. I totally believe that the querant can change their circumstances and become empowered through a card reading, with the right reader.

 

I'll continue doing the Card-A-Day Journal and the occasional reading (I am not a pro) and see what comes of it. My reading style is very practical, metaphysical & down to earth. Probably like a lot of members on the forum.

 

Rick,

Edited December 2, 2024 by RickInBakersfield
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[gregory]

On 11/13/2024 at 12:20 AM, Scandinavianhermit said:

The book I was recommended almost a year ago was Andy Boroveshengra's Lenormand Thirty Six Cards: An Introduction to Petit Lenormand (2014, 2015). I'm re-reading it and studying it slowly. Other regional and family methods of reading Lenormand do exist, but they are all ultimately rooted in a set of interpretions from c. 1850 (which is included in an appendix in Borovoshengra's book).

  but it's the BEST.

 

9 hours ago, Little Fang said:

Free Will is a big component in how I explain future predictions to clients.

A reading is a snapshot of what can become in the current trajectory, but a person's choices and actions can affect the outcome depending on how hard they change course. 

I strongly believe in free will. There may be some static influences that might bring something about, but we are our own creatures with our own minds that do our own things.

 

I'm absolutely with you, LF. And - if we have no free will - what's the point of a reading ? Just to be prepared for the day the cards say we will lose our job and get married ? If I have no real choice - I'd rather just live.

[RickInBakersfield]

Find Your Sovereignty,

 

I am just a guy with a few decks of tarot cards, not a philosopher.

 

I never said that a tarot reading can't help people make changes in their lives or help the sitter transform themselves into something their wanting their lives to be like. 

 

There is a ring of truth, for me anyways, in what I posted. I can accept the fact you want to call it conditioning. I'll also bet that my readings sound a lot like yours.

 

Rick,

[Scandinavianhermit]

Whichever side one takes on this matter, it's always useful to inform oneself fairly about what alternative points of views (more than one!) actually means. Is it called "a fair hearing" in English?

 

It reminds me of the heated quarrels between seven or possibly eight flavours of 17th century Protestantism regarding "predestination". Never allow a Dordrecht fanboy and an Arminian to tell you, that there are only two possible answers. The same is true about the matter discussed in this thread. 

 

[Guest]

I dislike a theme of predestination, in a nutshell it says that you can't change a thing so individuals pretty much give up. 

I believe that we can improve our circumstances with a little bit of planning and conscious decision making. 

Divination gives us a certain window of opportunity to sit with oneself, or another, and to reconsider possibilities. 

[Inceyn]

I think the reading itself is responsible for the decision point that allows clients to break away from any “chains of cause and effect.” It makes them aware of the probable future so they can consciously change behaviors that are leading them us along that path. So, oddly, awareness of our “predestined” future is exactly what triggers free will. I know I’m pretty much repeating what has already been said, but Tarot is so cool!