A question about tarot

[Von]

I’ve been getting into tarot lately and mentioned it to my friends and they made fun of me and said that tarot is girl thing.

 

Curious if anyone else has dealt with this kind of reaction, and why people still see spirituality or introspection as gendered.

[Scandinavianhermit]

It surprises me, that this notion exists. I'm a middle-aged man with an interest in the history of ideas, the history of art and the history of literature, and I'm interested in tarot. So was count de Mellet, Etteilla, Eliphas Levi, Papus, Oswald Wirth, Arthur Edward Waite, Aleister Crowley, Paul Foster Case, Frank Lind, Robert Ambelain, Alfred Douglas and Gareth Knight. 

 

Happy holidays, btw. 

[Scandinavianhermit]

I might add, that the field of studying tarot from a realistic critical art-historical point of view isn't pursued by female scholars only. Though Gertrude Moakley towers as the 20th century grande old dame in the field of studying tarot, Michael Dummett, Ronald Decker, Thierry Depaulis and Ross Caldwell have all added to our present knowledge of tarot's history. 

[JoyousGirl]

Maybe ask them why they think that? They probably don't know why. They might not be able to think for themselves because social norms are programmed into them *conform*. 

 

This is quite sad, really.  You keep doing what you're doing. 

 

You might want to direct them to direct them to inform themselves on Crowley and Waite. 

 

See you around the boards.

[heaven]

Im a male reader as well. I agree with those above that tarot is for everyone, and has plenty of male scholars in it.

 

I can think of "reasons" why this might be the case-- intuitive pursuits are usually thought of as non-male or non-masculine. It's that dichotomy again. It's societal conditioning to a deep degree.

 

I can't explain it eloquently at this time, but I wouldn't say that this is the case at all.

 

If it calls to you, go on and do it. It's for everyone. It really is.

 

In my experience, if given the opportunity to get a reading, other guys are just as keen to know what tarot might have to say, even while playing coy about that interest lol

[Drake_Winterfell]

I wonder why they think that? The creators of tarot were all men. Aleister Crowley created the Thoth Tarot and Arthur Edward Waite created the Rider Waite Tarot. The creators of the Merseille tarot are harder to pin down, but it's likely they were men too. Read up on the history of tarot. It's not just for girls. 

 

Maybe they think intuition is a woman's thing? Men have intuition just as women do. If you think about it intuition is based on your experiences in the world. We all have gut feelings about people we've just met. That's our intuition telling us something. It's part of our emotional intelligence and we can learn to improve it with practice. 

[Misterei]

14 hours ago, Von said:

I’ve been getting into tarot lately and mentioned it to my friends and they made fun of me and said that tarot is girl thing.

 

Curious if anyone else has dealt with this kind of reaction, and why people still see spirituality or introspection as gendered.

A few different topics here:

1. Yes, from a MARKETING perspective the Tarot & cartomancy space is largely female and to a lesser extent gay males. So as a professional in the industry I understand that my target market is largely female--but not exclusively so. Even with the largely female demographic, some male Tarot readers do very well in the business. The female clients would seem to value a male perspective possibly b/c its refreshing in a mostly female space [?] 
2. As others posted, from a HISTORICAL perspective many male artists or male occultists have been involved in Tarot's development from the 1400s onward.
3. If your friends mock your interests ... time to get new friends??? I don't know you and I don't know if this was good-natured joking or mean-spirited??? I have experienced "friends" who weren't really my friends and had to remove these people from my life.

[Elaina]

I learned from a biker. Big burly, ZZ Top looking dude who could snap my 90 lb 15 year old self in half.  He was the teacher at an occult shop and did it for fun. 

 

As was said, the history is largely male. I think some visualize Madame Blavatsky and stereotypical Romani readers. Recently a larger issue has been the lack of acknowledgement to Smith, so a female was more of the focus then the man that shares authorship who didn't give it. Plus Miss Cleo did not help with thinking of fortune telling as ungendered. She was everywhere in the 90s.  

 

I boxed in my early 20s. I was not only the sole southpaw but the only female there. Everyone made fun of me, but I was good at it and my dad (who did not think much of women boxing) came to my matches. I enjoyed it, so I did it for 4 years.  Sometimes you just do what makes you happy. 

[StellarLunar]

I saw this exact post on the tarot subreddit yesterday.

[gregory]

That's funny ! Maybe a windup then ?

 

I've been on tarot forums for a long while now, and have come across all sorts - including many men, both straight and gay. I don't even bother to think about it. I would point out that I have often found someone I assumed was female (usually because of their forum name) was actually male.  - and as many here will know,. I often get asked for the male POV - something I can't really offer....

 

If someone made fun of me for being into tarot - for whatever reason - I would see them as ignorant and silly. Nobody has to be into it, and especially nobody "ought to" buy into it - but dissing others over it is just childish. Ignore it.

[katrinka]

23 hours ago, Von said:

they made fun of me and said that tarot is girl thing

That's the kind of thing said by guys who aren't secure in their masculinity. They're really young, right? Immature. Like kids who say things like "school is gay!1!!!"
I wouldn't take them seriously.

Truth be told, I wouldn't take them anywhere lest they embarrass me.
</understatement>

 

[borderless]

Besides everything people have said here — many male figures in Tarot, social conditioning and conforming, unquestioned rough generalizations, and so on that I all agree with — I'd just add that it's your personal interest, and you should bear with it in a way you casually own it so it's not a social burden for you; it really doesn't have to be.

 

As a guy too, so far I've mostly faced lukewarm disapproval of Tarot as generally too superstitious, unbased, and woo-woo, rather than its normative gendering. I guess it depends on the particular social environment, but I personally wouldn't really care even if I did experience gendering.

 

I mean, I wish people knew better, but it's not up to me to teach them critical thinking; it doesn't have to be up to you either (unless you really want). You can recognize and conclude they're in the wrong, while you know better, and move on.

 

Then again, I haven't actually been mentioning Tarot much to most of my friends. I tend to have different topics and focuses with different friends and friend groups.

 

People vary in the degree to which they disclose their personal interests to friends and others around them. E.g. you might not know what else your friends could individually and privately be into, and they might not know how you'd react if they told you.
Even if y'all hypothetically happen to be super young, you don't have to pass through all the discoveries together.

 

I get that people like to share and talk about their interests and hobbies, even socialize around them, but it's not a must.
I know I sometimes prefer keeping one for myself and rarely sharing it, especially if I know or feel most people would probably misunderstand or misinterpret it. And that's mostly out of ignorance, oversimplifying, and/or brainless echoing of learned conformities; pushing spirituality and intuition into the female sphere and girl stuff falls exactly along those lines.

 

If you're really that puzzled by being told Tarot is a girl thing, and you really need to hear a different judgment said out loud, then just find people you won't be hearing that from (even better if they're Tarot enthusiasts themselves, but not a must), and make Tarot a topic with those.

[Ferrea]

4 hours ago, borderless said:

... lukewarm disapproval ...

 

That's very aptly put, but also funny.

[Chariot]

It might stem from the stereotypically daft portrayal of a dark-haired woman with huge earrings crouched over a crystal ball, and intoning dire predictions while looking at Death cards, etc.  I agree with @JoyousGirl - next time it  happens, ask them why they think that.  It might be interesting to find out.  And if they can't tell you, THEY might be forced to rethink their notion.

Try not to let them force you onto the defensive.  Act (or be) interested in their view, and see what they have to say.

Edited April 30 by Chariot