MuninnMissinHuginn Posted February 24, 2022 Posted February 24, 2022 7 hours ago, whatsawhosit said: You definitely understand what's going on so far. Great, it is because you have explained very clearly. I will await the grocery store metaphor. 🙂 I see how the “toffifay candy” is starting to rotate in place, and the other shapes are on the move with the other blue spheres increasing in size. Also the interior ring is getting larger in size proportionally to the outer ring. The interior sphere is “breaking apart” more. The light source has moved from O/9 to 1. Are those all the changes to notice?
Guest Posted February 24, 2022 Posted February 24, 2022 Yeah they're all things you could notice. All that stuff might really distract you at this moment. All of the talking we've done and the entire next discussion, is all based around that spinning toffifay looking thing and it's trip around the triangle.... I really should have come up with a name for it but I hate to just make stuff up and pretend it's real.... Some of these more complicated things you see in these images are things that I've animated fully elsewhere, and they look a little strange because I just selected them at one point that is indicative of their beingness so to speak. The art we are looking at right now that I'm rendering with the copic markers, is a storyboard for a far more complicated animation of an ennegram functioning that I created in Blender in 3D.
Guest Posted February 24, 2022 Posted February 24, 2022 7 hours ago, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Great, it is because you have explained very clearly. I will await the grocery store metaphor. 🙂 I see how the “toffifay candy” is starting to rotate in place, and the other shapes are on the move with the other blue spheres increasing in size. Also the interior ring is getting larger in size proportionally to the outer ring. The interior sphere is “breaking apart” more. The light source has moved from O/9 to 1. Are those all the changes to notice? The next thing we need to look at is the line segment from point to point. While the points in the triangle represent something happening that changes the flow of events. The line segment represents the environment the event is formed within. The line segments in this way describe levels of existence, rather than particular events. And I know that sounds rather contrived which is why I wanted to use a grocery store because it's something we are all very familiar with, something that is very real. We open our store for business. And that means we have to receive things, get them in order, present them to the customers, and sell them. The things we sell are going to arrive at our store at zero and they will leave our store at nine. Our item comes to the store, it was ordered at 9 of the prior cycle when it was sold to a customer. At zero we have a new product showing up in a big box. Perhaps it is makeup with dozens of items in the box that needs to go in a particular place to be stored, the box stays from 0 to 3 in the back room. Various things will happen to it as it is prepared for its next stage, there are certain people that only work in the back room and they are only concerned with these large boxes that contain many things that go in a specific place so they can be found later. From 3 to 6 we have the sales floor. This is a totally different group of people working with the products, than the people that worked in the back room. The product has to come out of the box, it has to be marked with the price, it has to be made to look enticing to the customer. The item has been changed and entered a whole new world, now that it displayed and priced. All of these actions happen in and around 3-5. From 3 to 6 we see that blending again, the product goes from the back room in a box out to the sales floor where it is given a new value and given a new appearance so that it looks desirable to a customer. At 6 the product is selected by the customer and is now in a customer's basket, and it will now go from 6 to 9 through the service department. A whole different group of people. And if we've ever worked in a retail store we know they probably don't get along with the people in the back of the store. They hardly know them. They have the whole world of the sales floor separating them from the back of the store. The service department will make sure that the product is paid for, that the customer has any other products necessary to make this product function, that the customer can get it in their car. Service also makes sure that the order is made to have a new product show up to replace the one that is sold. Now as we can see the product goes through a change from 3 to 6. There is a blending, a transmutation, a change in what the product is represented as. Before this transformation the product was worth what the store paid for it, after this transformation it is worth what a customer will pay for it. The product does not change what it is when it is in the back room, it is just put in order so that it can be found when the time is ready for it. As well the product is not changed from 6 to 9 it is just prepared for its next journey and given to the person who will take it with them. We can also see that the world of the service counter and the cashiers is very distant from the world of the back room of the store. The only way they come into contact with one another is through the people that work on the sales floor. This is a very important point to keep in mind at all times. These worlds do not mix; they are antipolar. The visible change is taking place on the bottom between three and six. If our product was makeup, it could sit in the back room for a month or more and then when the need happens it would pass through three and be converted into a salable product and then it may sit on the shelf for another month or two. And then it will go to a home and be consumed. Pretty exciting stuff huh? And we still haven't even gotten to the ennegram part. We always have to keep in mind the ennegram and philosopher stone work very simply. The difficulty is understanding the subject matter well enough to fit it into the simple rules of the symbol…. The frustrating part is realizing we don't know as much about things as we thought we did…by using the ball metaphor we discovered very quickly that we are very weak in understanding the physics and math involved with an object in motion under force. The symbol quickly showed us what we were unsure of.
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted February 25, 2022 Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, whatsawhosit said: The frustrating part is realizing we don't know as much about things as we thought we did…by using the ball metaphor we discovered very quickly that we are very weak in understanding the physics and math involved with an object in motion under force. The symbol quickly showed us what we were unsure of. Okay, I think I am with you on this. Especially the part about what I don’t know……. Thank you!
Guest Posted February 25, 2022 Posted February 25, 2022 2 hours ago, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Okay, I think I am with you on this. Especially the part about what I don’t know……. Thank you! Well I think we'll do it again, before we move on you should be able to teach anybody how to fit anything they encounter into the philosophers Stone. But before we move on to another example let's look at what we learn from what we already know is going on in the store, thanks to the symbol. 0|9 The event taking place at zero is automatic. In this case it is happening without consciousnesses, the quantity on hand of the item is too low because another item left the store at 9 of the last cycle. The item is ordered and it shows up at the back door of the building. This is a very mechanical process even if it's done by a human the human mechanically does this when the stock gets low. Nowadays in the big stores like a Walmart this really happens completely automatically nobody even does the order. This is a very internal thing that takes place it happens in a computer or in an order book that is not seen by anybody other than a purchasing manager. 3 this event at 3 is caused by an outside event. The need for the product to go from the back room to the floor was caused by somebody from outside of the store taking a product away. The store has almost no control over whether someone needs the product or not so this change iniated at 3 is triggered from outside and is outside of the control of the store. The store putting a thing on sale is like blindly steering into the wind and hoping you get there... It may or may not inspire person to come purchase the product. At 3 the need from outside of the store has to match the stock availability within the store for this to work. If there's a need and no stock nothing happens.. if there's stock and no need nothing happens. The event at 3 comes from the outside. 6 at point 6 the transition takes place at a higher level. There is a real human being with their own desires and will and consciousness inside of the store and they have chosen to purchase this thing. This is a much more subtle event than the one at 3. At 3:00 the change takes place fairly automatically because the shelf is empty and there is a change from the back room to the sales floor to fill that hole. At 6 the customer has choices they can choose this product or that for this reason or that reason or choose not to buy anything. So it's 6 the likelihood of the purchase being made of a certain product is less likely to take place. To exemplify this think of how many products you walk past in a large store that you do not buy, there are far more things that do not get converted at 6 than do get converted. 9 at 9 things appear to happen automatically... But this is actually one all the events take on their greatest gravity because the person is verifying that the price is correct and that their budget fits this thing in and this is where they reach in their pocket and they pay for it the critical moment... All sorts of things can happen between 6 and 9. Somewhere in there is a magic moment when there's an exceptionally high amount of gravity or pressure that finishes off this cycle and brings us in to nine. So as we go around our circle we have an automatic input at zero, an input it three from outside that we have almost no control over, and input at 6:00 which is of higher more difficult type to bring together into a form that matches our product, and at 9:00 there's this one moment of hesitation just prior to it where one's intention and will has to push it over the edge to make it happen. __----------+++++-+++++++ From this we actually see the structure of a store and how it operates in relation to the world around it and the customers that enter it and leave it with the goods. We can see how a store interacts with the community around it with this form. Anything that we can fit into this philosopher's stone in this manner will display to us how that thing interacts with the things around it. It's really important that we have this part down pat, because when we add the anagram to this equation we are going to begin to see the inner characteristics of the store that allow this process to take place. You're going to get to see the thoughts so to speak that the store goes through in order to fulfill that product's life cycle in the store. And before we jump off that ledge I really want to make sure we all understand how a store operates in relation to this symbol. So when I get home tomorrow I'll take my next card that's been done and we're going to break it down into a restaurant and how a meal gets served. I think this is something else that we all have in common so much so that we will all understand the structures.
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 21 hours ago, whatsawhosit said: And before we jump off that ledge I really want to make sure we all understand how a store operates in relation to this symbol. Okay, to see if I understand a loan will be applied to this process. At 0/9 The need for a new vehicle has occurred. From 9 to 3 the information gathered as needed for filling out a loan application. The application is filled. At 3 the filled application is brought to a lender. The lender and the borrower discuss terms, purpose of the loan, and the wishes of the borrower. From 3 to 6 Both the individual and the lending institution (loan officer) are working and represented. At 6 the loan officer has the application. 6 to 9 the loan officer takes all the information and begins to work through the numbers of rates, income, payments, terms according to the policies of the lending institution. At 9 an offer is made by the lending institution about what the loan terms can be. So 0 to 3 is only the individual. 3 to 6 is the transfer from individual to institution. 6 to 9 is institution. So is this sort of correct?
Guest Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 Three is always an outside event that changes the progression. I always picture three as a thing the world throws at me, the bump in the road or the hurdle that either slows down my progress or speeds it up. This time it is the interest rate and any other refunds rebates or financing conditions that affect our ability to purchase said car in this example. These are all variables from outside that have to be in resonance with our needs in order to fulfill this purchase. Six is an event that always originates from within the system. This is going to be the choice to make the purchase which comes from within us. If this was a full ennagram I would say at 2 they hand us the loan application. At 3 is the answer from the bank that we are approved and this is the percentage interest is available to us, length of the loan, and we are made aware of how much our monthly insurance will be. The blending here between three and six is us working with the salesman to make that answer from the bank fit our needs and desires. At 6 a conscious thought typically based on emotional content is made to accept such terms or to not accept the terms for a car available that falls within that range If we accept the terms, six to nine is us finishing off the deal and getting the car. If we don't accept the terms 9 is the process of shopping for another car with the information gained from 3. But this time three is going to be the inventory on the lot rather than the bank. ----+++------++++ So to be certain you definitely laid out a fairly solid structure within the philosopher's Stone. The right side of the symbol represents inner functioning your need for a car. It receives its Big boost from the outside. Your needs for the car are very internal. If I looked at you I wouldn't know you needed a car. The left half of the symbol represents a more outward function and it's going to receive its boost from the inside. Buying a car is very external if I saw you buying a car I could probably guess you were buying a car. We can see here that the boost from the outside is huge, the power of the banking system is gigantic. While the boost from the inside is minuscule, how we feel about the particular car and our finances is the smallest weakest point in the whole process. You could have made your decision and be sure of it and a friend or family member could say something snarky about the car and it might change your mind. There is very little power backing up this decision at 6. ------- Another thing to keep in mind is the symbols flexibility. If we went back to the ball scenario it literally obliterates most of what I've taught you so far, there's two laws of motion and a law of mass working with that ball... This creates a very complicated scenario if you want to really understand how it's unfolding. In those situations you purposely break the rules to describe it, or we combine two symbols together to cover all the variables that are in lockstep... It's not something I want to approach at the moment. But I mentioning it so that the apparent paradox does not frustrate you and lead you to believe it doesn't work. When you see the interlaced triangles with the circle around it, the Star of David or Solomon's key... That's what that's for.
Guest Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 8 hours ago, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Okay, to see if I understand a loan will be applied to this process. At 0/9 The need for a new vehicle has occurred. From 9 to 3 the information gathered as needed for filling out a loan application. The application is filled. At 3 the filled application is brought to a lender. The lender and the borrower discuss terms, purpose of the loan, and the wishes of the borrower. From 3 to 6 Both the individual and the lending institution (loan officer) are working and represented. At 6 the loan officer has the application. 6 to 9 the loan officer takes all the information and begins to work through the numbers of rates, income, payments, terms according to the policies of the lending institution. At 9 an offer is made by the lending institution about what the loan terms can be. So 0 to 3 is only the individual. 3 to 6 is the transfer from individual to institution. 6 to 9 is institution. So is this sort of correct? By the way I'm actually really surprised how well you're soaking this up for someone that was so unsure of themself. It makes me a little jealous ttytt.
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 6 hours ago, whatsawhosit said: It makes me a little jealous ttytt Oh I will hit a wall at some point I am sure! As long as I can picture/visualize I can fake it for a bit! Also, and this is very important, you are explaining simply. Richard Feynman - “If you can’t explain something to a first year student, then you haven’t really understood”. Me thinks you understand very well. Thank you!
Guest Posted February 26, 2022 Posted February 26, 2022 7 hours ago, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Oh I will hit a wall at some point I am sure! As long as I can picture/visualize I can fake it for a bit! Also, and this is very important, you are explaining simply. Richard Feynman - “If you can’t explain something to a first year student, then you haven’t really understood”. Me thinks you understand very well. Thank you! you won't hit a wall, i suggest you make a notebook. Richard Feynman made a separate notebook for each thing he approached. Make a notebook for yourself. and start making these. if I made a can of soup i made an ennegram to describe the process while I ate it. when I took a call at work and set up an appointment, I made an ennegram to describe the process. when I got divorced, I made an ennegram to show how it unfolded 😵 here is an ennegram with the entire process filled in. 142857 describe the inner conditions that exist during the process. 3,6,9 show us the overall structure - i know my friend's car broke, i can have a good idea of current interest rates and my friend has horrible credit, and I can see the car they picked out. all very observable things. while 142857 show us the character If my friend needs a car i observe, "oh no their car broke, they went to the dealership and they bought a car" i can see my friend fulfill 3,6,9 for the most part. 142857 are not so easy to discern. i would have to know my friend very well to know how they imagine themselves in their new car, what kind of car, where they imagine they are driving it. I would not know which dealership they went to. i can only guess how they will form a relationship with the salespeople involved. for the moment just soak up all these things happening in chronological order one after another.....they do.....but they don't depending on where you are in relation to the event.
Guest Posted February 27, 2022 Posted February 27, 2022 here I want to point out the symmetries between the inner and the outer that I was referring to. 0 needs a car resonates with 9 bought a car The mental image of 1 is resonant with reality of 8 the act of applying for a loan at 2 is resonant with filling out the paperwork for a purchase at 7 the choice the lender makes at 3 is resonant with the choice that you make at 6 choosing a particular car at 4 is resonant with the salesperson selling at 5
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted February 27, 2022 Posted February 27, 2022 2 hours ago, whatsawhosit said: Make a notebook for yourself. Okay, but to start with will you check my “homework”? I think I am still understanding - both posts - I will try another example to see if I can make it work in the all the ways you have described so far. Also, 5 made me laugh out loud - though there must be in tiny font underneath “and more”, I just could not see it. It maybe a bit before I can attempt the next example, work has increased, but I have not lost interest.
Guest Posted February 28, 2022 Posted February 28, 2022 23 hours ago, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Okay, but to start with will you check my “homework”? I think I am still understanding - both posts - I will try another example to see if I can make it work in the all the ways you have described so far. Also, 5 made me laugh out loud - though there must be in tiny font underneath “and more”, I just could not see it. It maybe a bit before I can attempt the next example, work has increased, but I have not lost interest. Work is the easiest place to begin. Everything has cut and dry procedures.
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted March 1, 2022 Posted March 1, 2022 Okay @whatsawhosit, Here is my attempt. I am not sure this is correct. I don’t mean this to be an aggressive question but what is the purpose of this ? You mentioned earlier it is about how each point on the philosopher’s stone exerts a force on another point. So in the exercise is the process designed to see how the visualization of the lesson directly affects the students ability to properly demonstrate the lesson? 1 affects 8? Also, the triangle of 0/9-3-6 makes sense. Why 142857? Maybe you are not ready to explain that yet? Thanks!
Guest Posted March 1, 2022 Posted March 1, 2022 Part of me wants to kick it back and say let's take 142857 out of it. But you are really on the cusp. Read this a couple times as you fill it in, don't feel like you're not getting it. it took me a few years to do what you're about to do in a few weeks. There is no way to describe this without a lot of words. I cannot soften blow. Sorry. First let's look at the symbol you made and the values you assigned. Rather than having an inner state and an outer state. On the right we appear to have the state of creating a lesson plan and on the left we have the state of students with the lesson plan in their hand. Perhaps a title for the symbol will help. Make one symbol about the creation of a lesson plan. Nine would be a finished lesson plan zero would be an idea for a lesson plan. At 3:00 I want you to put in the; parameters, guidelines, prerequisites, class course description, time left available in the semester, etc... Just think of anything that's not in your control that forces you to create the lesson plan in a specific fashion. At 6:00 this is going to be your emotional content, how you feel about the lesson outline that you've created so far. Nine will be the culmination of the finished lesson in your hand. As far as a student doing a lesson let's use that as our tool to understand 142857...let me take the liberty of making this a little more straightforward. Let's make this about writing an essay. Writing an essay is high art, it's an art that we've been perfecting for about 5,000 years, and the process unfolds in an ennegram like a beautiful flower Every essay needs an introduction, a body and a conclusion.write these divisions outside of your circle and they apply to each leg of the triangle 0 to 3 we have introduction 3 to 6 we have the body 6 to 9 we have the conclusion. Now I must digress a bit... And bring your attention to how it is one must think in order to accomplish this basic concept of essay writing. We exist in the past present and future all at one time. This isn't some esoteric occult hokey pokey this is exactly what a neurologist or a neurophysiologist would tell you if you had thought to ask them. We're always predicting what's going to happen based on what happened in the past and so we're always living a second or two ago in the present due to all this predicting going on. We are always looking ahead to the Future from the past to gauge our assumption about the present. The more efficient a person is at this and depending on their present affect ( pronounce the a like the a in apple) one's conception of the present can be more or less clear. And this is exactly what we do when we create an essay with this classic triparate division. Grab a pencil make your ennegram and then fill in the three points. Title the symbol write an essay 9 - wrote an essay 0 + write an essay 3 +reference material - this is all that we found that supports our arguments AND the assignments preconditions such as word count so many pages etc 6 -personal conviction Let's make little plus and minus signs next to each point. If it's a plus sign if it comes from the outside. It's a minus sign if it comes from inside. So zero is positive it came from the teacher it came from without. Three is positive it came from research from other people. Six is negative it comes from within the writer it is their personal purview of what they have learned in the process of writing the essay itself. Nine is negative the essay came from within the writer. This should give you a glimmer of beautiful symmetry, Fill in the rest of the steps around the circle with abbreviated versions of what follows don't forget the little plus and minus signs. _______ 0+ __________ Introduction At 1- introduction we tell what we're talking about and why. At 2 - hypothesis and the procedure we are going to attempt to use to prove it. ____________ At 3 + we introduced other people's research and measurements to our observations. ________________ Body At 4 -+ we make our case outlining combinations of these data point and opinions At 5 +- we turn current outline and points of view into prose. Arguments are made and verified etc this is the classical part of the body that we think of as an essay. ________ 6 - we assert what we feel is the point of everything ----------------- Conclusion At 7 + will reintroduce our hypothesis using the data that was organized at three and four. And at 8+ we make our closing remarks that should in any well written paper bring us full circle to why we wanted to write the paper in the first place. Seven and eight are positive because we are really just drawing that information from one and two and reiterating five in their structure. we're not really getting this from inside anymore. At 9 - is a paper that was a personal creation of the author. __------------------------ Now you'll notice that I made borders around 3 6 and 9. They really stand outside of everything. They are shocks that either come from the outside or from inside of the person writing the essay. Those points aren't really in the essay. When we were at one we have to look ahead to four to say what this thing is about. When we start writing our essay at the very first sentence we are looking ahead in time at a half written essay giving a hint as to where we're going to go with this. We're just imagining it though, it's just a good guess we haven't put in all that data yet from the outside world. At the same time from one we are also looking really far ahead to 7 where we're stating our hypotheses and we proved our self right. If you really sit there with a pencil and try to write yourself an essay it will become apparent quite quickly that you can't do anything unless you imagine the essay written before you start writing. Two is literally a physical act of reinforcing one. We start the overall structure of our outline by looking ahead to 8 where we'll make our conclusion and closing argument. At the same time still we are very much connected to four in the future for this outline is the container for the data we will receive at three. we can still only make these broad assumptions based on the fact that we have a strong body for our essay already envisioned. This shows us that these first two steps of creating an essay are imaginary... Not to say they're not rea,l to say that they are merely images we created in our mind. At 4 the whole perspective of everything changes. At 4 we are connected only to things in the past; one and two. As we complete the outline we have to look back quite a bit and make sure we are only including data points that reinforce what we started talking about And maintaining that focus with the new influx of data that we got at three coupled with any limitations the teacher gave us such as word count. we should say four is the completed outline five is the written body. And there is this flux to include this, not to include that between four and five... If we've written a great outline there's less of this but this is always the case one way or the other. because if our body of the essay doesn't fit our desire to prove ourselves right or the assignments requirements at 6 we won't turn it in. Seven is our conclusion and it should be a restatement of 5 with with some sort of supporting conjecture that leads the reader to the author's point of view which is the connection to one Eight is the closing which should echo our introduction in large part. The closing is often a small summary of what we hope one would keep in mind after reading our essay. Often we will just bullet point the original outline from 2 to remind the reader of the important points. You'll note that three six and nine aren't actually in an essay. If it's not a scientific paper they wouldn't include all the information at 3. If it is a scientific paper they leave out their personal opinion that is generating 6. Ironically the ennagram lays out proper essay building structure better than my English book from 40 years ago. But a child's brain would melt if we try to describe it to them like this.... Heck my brain is smoking and all I did was say it. The triangle of the philosopher's Stone describes the structure of the essay, but is not visible in the essay. At 0 we don't write about the class assignment, at 3 we don't list all the data Note for note, at 6 and we don't cry our bleeding heart all through the paper about how we feel about this subject. But these really are the very things that make the essay exist it wouldn't be there without those three things. Following what is done at 142857, we have the very character of the essay itself. Someone could write a really crappy essay and still have the introduction body and closing... But they failed to connect everything in the fashion that is necessary to get your point across without looking like you're biased or that you plagiarize etc. Also we could get the 142857 part great and forget a part of the structure... If we don't really introduce it no one knows what we're talking about... If we don't write a proper closing what was the point they have to figure out what all this data means on their own. So any whole complete thing must have both of these things working together... Pouring a glass of water requires the same structure. Okay I got to take a break... I won'tt to be surprised if you tell me that was pretty convoluted... You are the first person to ever ask how to do this of me... Thank you for the opportunity
Guest Posted March 1, 2022 Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) On 2/28/2022 at 7:40 PM, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Okay @whatsawhosit I don’t mean this to be an aggressive question but what is the purpose of this ? Learning the ennegram is about reality. Seeing things for what they really are not as shadows from someone else's dreams. Once you can take a process and fit it into the form of the ennagram you know you're mastering the process. If you can't, you know you haven't even come close yet. And that alone makes this a useful tool , even if it is just for self-adjustment and giving yourself goals. Edited March 2, 2022 by whatsawhosit If I'm going to write a book I'll have it printed 😅
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted March 2, 2022 Posted March 2, 2022 Okay so yes, this was a lot to digest. I will continue to think on all of this. But it also seems that the lesson plans should be one symbol and the student learning another symbol. Is this correct? So part of the difficulty is knowing how much to put into each symbol, or is it a matter of what one wishes to learn from the symbol? The way the 142857 works makes sense to a great degree. I think I need to set that aside for a bit and get a better handle on filling in the 0 to 9 positions.
Guest Posted March 2, 2022 Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, MuninnMissinHuginn said: Okay so yes, this was a lot to digest. I will continue to think on all of this. But it also seems that the lesson plans should be one symbol and the student learning another symbol. Is this correct? So part of the difficulty is knowing how much to put into each symbol, or is it a matter of what one wishes to learn from the symbol? The way the 142857 works makes sense to a great degree. I think I need to set that aside for a bit and get a better handle on filling in the 0 to 9 positions. Each one should be a separate symbol. The circle represents a complete octave. One whole thing. If we put the lesson plan and the student learning together, the octave could be ,"a student completing a lesson we made." If our goal was to express the efficiency of your lesson plan. We would include all of the parts you did. Which would show how efficiently the lesson plan was built and how efficiently it taught. On the right we would have the mental state of the lesson plan, the interior version when it was being built. On the left we would have the execution and use of your lesson plan the physical outer version of it. Everything that is, is composed of three parts. Is this our imagination? Is it a convenient system of categorization that people do naturally? Is it an actual fundamental principle of the universe? I don't know. But I can say that it's very convenient that things seem to pan out like that everywhere we look. So let's just describe things with the symbol as if they were built out of three. I snapped this picture out of an old book written about George Gurdjieff. This picture is showing us the six general ways these three forces combine to create everything. Every event, everything is made up of three different forces. I've been trying to avoid these shocks changing positions, since it forces a whole ennagram to spin. So for the time being just pretend that it's staying upright. Pretend the inside is on the right the outside is on the left. The way I've been describing it to you, by and large, depicts how physical things are. When the ennegram depicts mental States it becomes more fluid more plastic in its form. In tarot for instance we are very accustomed to positive and negative yin and yang push and pull. Tarot cards are full of, it every time we see a man or woman or boy or a girl... In actuality there's a positive force a negative Force and the third Force that is either initiating or neutralizing. When you start, you have to pick the stuff that's obvious. I picked an essay because everyone in the world knows an essay is made out of three basic parts. I could pick a building and say the exterior the interior and the foundation. I could take the same building and break it up into three separate sets of floors. I can take the same building again and break it up into three sets of companies that lease space in the building. I can take the same building again and break it up into management, sales, and tenants. The defining element is what I'm trying to express with the ennegram. There's definitely a lot of things in the world I don't know enough about to categorize... I'm sure the Great barrier reef of Australia has three primary zones and any oceanologist studying it could quickly break the reef up into various groups of three that work together to create a whole. This is definitely a puzzle, so let's take it easy and do the easy puzzles first. Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism (I actually can't think of a religion that doesn't) have this exact concept very deep within themselves. This concept of the trinity describes exactly this concept, except in theology this concept remains strictly in the realm of thoughts and concepts emotions and feelings. It is in this realm that will use these symbols the most. For example once we get past the point describing class assignments and buildings with this philosophers stone we will start laying our tarot cards down at these three points and seeing how they interact with one another. Rather than laying down three tarot cards in a row and perceiving them as past present and future. Try laying down the cards in the triangle. and proceed reading the cards as active passive and neutralizing forces. The major cards represent inner states of being the minor cards represent outer states such as interactions with the world and other people Edited March 3, 2022 by whatsawhosit Typos
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted March 3, 2022 Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) For some reason the photo for the post above is not loading. @whatsawhosit I have tried once more, and I think perhaps we have hit the point where I can’t fake it any more 😂 Knitting a sweater _______ 0+ __________ Choosing a pattern At 1- Imagine what color the recipient would like, and will the sweater be buttoned or pull on, etc. At 2 - Look at patterns on the favorite site. Find one within our skill level and requirements ____________ At 3 + print pattern instructions, buy yarn. ________________ Checking the pattern At 4 -+ we knit a sample 3” x 3” sample to see if our stitch size equals pattern requirements. At 5 +- we make adjustments to the pattern or needles so that the sweater will be the right size. ________ 6 - we knit ----------------- Making the sweater. At 7 + as one knits the pattern and length are checked to make sure everything is on track. And at 8+ The non-knitting finishing jobs are done, yarn tails woven into the sweater, (buttons added if needed) Sleeves sown on. _____________ 9 - The sweater is made. ***And Perhaps if we go farther in the explanation things will come together. Thanks for your patience. Edited March 3, 2022 by MuninnMissinHuginn
Guest Posted March 3, 2022 Posted March 3, 2022 (edited) Yeah you basically nailed it. In general applications you can always check your work. One should be the opposite of 8. Two the opposite of seven. Four the opposite of five. But it is the triad that gives the structure. The triad is the more fundamental process. It is at the points in the triangle that our octave can change, can interact with other octaves. If we can break our octave into these even thirds, the sequence of 142857 just falls into place as it should. At first glance it seems like there's two points on each side of the triangle. What is also fundamental is that each side of the triangle is divided into three sections by those two points. In an ennegram we are seeing an octave separated into three. And then each of those are separated into three. Each leg of your triangle is its own separate octave its own separate world of objectives, and it takes all three of those worlds working together to make a sweater. I would suggest doing this a few dozen times. It won't take long for it to get so complicated it's more trouble to draw than it is to just think about it.... That's when we want to start using cards. Edited March 3, 2022 by whatsawhosit Typos
MuninnMissinHuginn Posted March 3, 2022 Posted March 3, 2022 33 minutes ago, whatsawhosit said: I would suggest doing this a few dozen times. It won't take long for it to get so complicated it's more trouble to draw than it is to just think about it.... That's when we want to start using cards. Okay, I won’t trouble you with checking them for now. What’s next?
Guest Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 what do you want to get out of it? a new tarot spread? a fun puzzle to stimulate your mind? a new way to look at all of life? all three can lead to the same exact place, if one does not give up, I suppose. so far, we have just been feeding your intellectual curiosities in the thinking|reasoning octave...it is going to take a large influx of information and experiences from life that resonate with your being (in reference to this entire enneagram concept) that pushes you past three and leaves you firmly in the moving|doing octave. the moving |doing octave is where we enable those types of thoughts that create the skills we do habitually. most people spend their entire lives between 3 and 6. Think of driving, at first it seems really cool and fun...then we learn our way around how it is useful, and we LEARN to use it for that....most people do not bother to master driving and become professional drivers. Though it is a common thing to aspire to be a really great driver and win races. so it is up to you. I am going to keep drawing my pictures either way 😉 lets start from the beginning and look at that octave again. the circle around the symbol...and maybe we can shine some light on what that square was about that i suggested we ignore for a while. i have taken the octave and rotated our view here so that we are looking at it from the side. This describes our circle as a spiral that is evolving upwards, but the beginning and the end are "magically" connected. An impossible object. note how the red line moves down and bi-sects the point of the enneagram where that "blending" takes place between 4 and 5.
Guest Posted March 4, 2022 Posted March 4, 2022 Imagine if you will that the spiral is a hill one must climb to complete the process that the enneagram describes. And every bit of progress one makes it gets a little more difficult to make more progress. Until it's almost impossible and then at 3 there is a boost from an outside force. This Force itself originates as zero of a whole other octave that is doing its thing. With this boost if the energy resonates with what was going on inside of this current octave suddenly find themselves between four and five. Four and five is like a plateau on the way up the mountain. It's almost impossible to accidentally fall off of this plateau. But it's also very difficult to start going again. What is required at 6 is a large emotional burst of energy that is once again in resonance with what this octave is about to push us forward. Things do not get easier after this they keep getting harder. Every bit of advancement is twice as hard as the last bit. But after 6 things get more simple. For example The idea to make a sweater was simple from one to three things just get more and more complex.. by the time we get to four we've got different kinds of yarns different kinds of needles tape measures scissors patterns and a number of other things to make sure that the sweater being made fits the person such as measurements. At 6 we've got quite a bit of sweater done and that emotional burst from inside that says,"oh so and so is going to love their new sweater," is just the boost needed to get us through the rest of this octave. As we came this way after 5 things are getting more simple. By the time we make it to 8: it's just one sweater. It's so simple it could be deceiving to the untrained eye how complicated the process actually was. But anybody who's made a sweater knows these final steps are the mastery itself. How do you finish it out? how do you close off these knots? Does it need to be stretched? These things may be more simple but they're actually more difficult tasks that require someone who is a master... Many a sweater or painting has been ruined at these final stages. The spiral helps us see that as the octave progresses it's like approaching the speed of light... The process keeps gaining mass it gets harder and harder to get to the finish line. Everything after that middle ground is an inversion of what we went through before. The ultimate inversion is you sitting at the table with an idea about a sweater you want to make... At the same point that you are sitting at the table with a sweater you made. In your mind this all happened in a moment.. your mind pictures the sweater the sweater being made and pictures ourself picturing the sweater. And that's where I want to leave you for a day or two. Seeing yourself seeing yourself doing something. As we try to fit our life into an enneagram in order to see what's going on. We begin to see ourselves seeing ourself.
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