Major Arcana As 3 Phases?

[McFaire]

Some readers and authors view the major arcana in three groups, 1-7, 8-14, and 15-21 (separate from the Fool). My question is, do you use this type of system in your interpretation, and if so, how so?

 

For example, I've seen these three groups interpreted as applying to (1-7) physical plane, (8-14) mental plane, (15-21) spiritual plane. Or conscious, subconscious, and super-conscious. Or, people, events, natural forces. The Carr-Gomms (DruidCraft) describe it as (1-7) developing awareness and building character, (8-14) opening to the powers of the subconscious, and (15-21) path to illumination. Pollack talks about the outer concerns of life in society, the search inward to find out who we really are, and the development of spiritual awareness. Others refer to the three acts of the hero's journey, or the three parts of the soul. And so on.

 

So the idea is, if you were comparing, say, the High Priestess to the Moon, you would take into account the number of the card as it relates to the above phases or stages, i.e. the HP would relate to the physical plane and the Moon would relate to spiritual development.

 

The deeper structure of the major arcana makes for interesting contemplation. But from a practical standpoint, do you apply a 3-phase concept in your readings?

 

Thanks for your thoughts 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

[Rose Lalonde]

Hey, If I remember correctly, you ordered SKT. Wen made a point of showing this in the art for each vertical column, for example the coiled serpent shared on cards 1, 8 and 15. So her deck encourages that sort of connection. I've noticed it more lately because of that.

 

But to answer your question about whether we put this into practice in readings, I don't often, but I do a lot of 3 carders, so it doesn't come up all that much.  I did consider it while going through the deck with the card meditation suggested in Liber Theta that includes a different layout via the Thoth that doesn't separate the Fool out (which bumps the Chariot to the next row. It puts the Wheel at the center (and the Emperor and Empress on either side thanks to the Thoth's letter attribution of the Emperor). Anyway... Paul Foster Case said of this layout that "the top row Trump represents a potency that operates through the medium of the second row Trump to produce the result shown by the bottom row Trump." So there's yet another way of explaining the different rows to go along with the ones you've already listed. In some cases this seemed like very helpful context for a card, and in some cases less so... for me at least on a first pass through the deck in that way.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Rose Lalonde

[Decan]

2 hours ago, McFaire said:

The deeper structure of the major arcana makes for interesting contemplation. But from a practical standpoint, do you apply a 3-phase concept in your readings?

I remember explanations like that for the Major Arcana cards by Oswald Wirth (I think his book is translated into English), but he considered that people have to use only the Majors in a reading, therefore maybe in this case these distinctions are more relevant? With the Tarot de Marseille type-like it's often the case, with the R-W it's different because we have to use the 78 cards.

Well, this brings abstract considerations for the cards and I often felt embarrassed by that, or when everything is explained from an Evolutional point of view (I sometimes met that too in some books).

I think that's probably nice to integrate deeply the cards from a spiritual and esoteric point of view but concretely?

Honestly I don't consider that at all (but maybe I'm wrong and I should!); what I should do more systematically is to consider the Majors distinct from the Pips and the Court cards with regard to the particular meaning that they bring in a reading, but it would be another topic.

[Nordica De Spell]

10 hours ago, McFaire said:

Some readers and authors view the major arcana in three groups, 1-7, 8-14, and 15-21 (separate from the Fool). My question is, do you use this type of system in your interpretation, and if so, how so?

I havent, simply because most normal readings don’t require that overview, or depth concerning the querent’s ”whole life.”

 

But it might work very well with some ”destiny,” or ”year ahead,” type readings and stuff.

 

@Decan, I tried to read Oswald Wirth once, and he’s got more than one great point about the tarot as a whole — maybe I should pick that book back up some day and try to read all of it. (It’s a pretty thin book I’ve got, but feels like a ton of bricks to plow through, somehow.) 🙂

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For example, I've seen these three groups interpreted as applying to (1-7) physical plane, (8-14) mental plane, (15-21) spiritual plane.

A cinderella shoe...

 

This feels like someone tried to fit the tarot into a modern construct of three stepsisters!

 

The physical plane: ok, somewhat.

The mental plane: here it fails tremendously, and perhaps most notably (but not limited to) the Wheel being placed here. 

The spiritual plane: This fails, again. From a Christian point of view, and from a few new age ones, it might work... But, are we talking about a doll house size tarot deck, or one that is full size?

 

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Or conscious, subconscious, and super-conscious.

To a degree, it could be how I define those words, but for me this is such giant gibberish, that I get tired just thinking about commenting.

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Or, people, events, natural forces.

 

Again, can’t make that fit.

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The Carr-Gomms (DruidCraft) describe it as (1-7) developing awareness and building character, (8-14) opening to the powers of the subconscious, and (15-21) path to illumination.

Sorry to put the Wildwood sibling down. But it might be how we define words such as ”awareness” and ”subconscious.” I think that it’s especially the second row that doesn’t work well, to me. But I’d also have reservations about the wording ”path to illumination.” 

 

Overall, it isn’t the most erroneous divide, and might actually work for some, but isn’t for me.

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Pollack talks about the outer concerns of life in society, the search inward to find out who we really are, and the development of spiritual awareness.

Works better than the others, but not well enough to be to my personal satisfaction.

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Others refer to the three acts of the hero's journey,

This might work if you’re writing a hero’s story, as a model where you as the author gets to decide what the hero encounters and etc. 

 

In the real life hero’s journey, it doesn’t, because even IF we accept act 1 being represented by 1-7 sequence of cards, the next sequence COULD contain all of the challenges and in the right order, OR for our individual hero we might add or detract or re-arrange from that sequence... And the latter is more likely. With the third sequence of cards, most cards here don’t fit act 3 of the hero’s journey, imo. 

 

There’s also the issue of the three acts not being equal in length, whereas the card sequences are.

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or the three parts of the soul. And so on.

Haven’t heard of the three parts of the soul before. Probably, it’s rubbish to try and divide the soul in parts, though (to me, I might add.)

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But from a practical standpoint, do you apply a 3-phase concept in your readings?

I really might, in some readings, but I’d only consider my own 3-phase concept! As invented today (Thank You 🙂) :

 

Four rows, with The Fool as only card in row one, in the middle of it as a significator, (or a headline, if you will.)

 

Row 2: Cards 1-7: The life we’re born to fit into. Personality development, School, Family, Religion, Marriage, Work; etc.

 

The Chariot being a pivotal point:

 

Row 3: Cards 8-15: Life as we encounter it; becoming weathered and tempered through the storms, rains, etc. Some stones fall and become more edgy, and stay on the ground here, for others to walk on and bleed from. But some stones get polished and well rounded, and ideally arrive at Temperance.

 

Temperance being a pivotal point:

 

Row 4: Cards 16-22: The underlying structure of life; revealed. 

 

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Thanks for your thoughts 🙂

 

What are your own thoughts on it? 🙂

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Nordica De Spell
(With The World as the pivotal point: we’re just The Fool again, at the end.)

[McFaire]

Thanks for these great responses. I have a busy day today but I will be back soon to reply in more depth.

 

4 hours ago, Nordica De Spell said:

What are your own thoughts on it? 🙂

 

My initial take on the comments above is that, yes, the type of reading and the type of question would make the difference as to whether this approach would be meaningful and helpful.

 

Many tarot authors address this subject but I had never really been able to make it click for me from a practical standpoint. But my intuition always told me to stay open about it.

[McFaire]

19 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

Hey, If I remember correctly, you ordered SKT. Wen made a point of showing this in the art for each vertical column, for example the coiled serpent shared on cards 1, 8 and 15. So her deck encourages that sort of connection. I've noticed it more lately because of that.

 

But to answer your question about whether we put this into practice in readings, I don't often, but I do a lot of 3 carders, so it doesn't come up all that much.  I did consider it while going through the deck with the card meditation suggested in Liber Theta that includes a different layout via the Thoth that doesn't separate the Fool out (which bumps the Chariot to the next row. It puts the Wheel at the center (and the Emperor and Empress on either side thanks to the Thoth's letter attribution of the Emperor). Anyway... Paul Foster Case said of this layout that "the top row Trump represents a potency that operates through the medium of the second row Trump to produce the result shown by the bottom row Trump." So there's yet another way of explaining the different rows to go along with the ones you've already listed. In some cases this seemed like very helpful context for a card, and in some cases less so... for me at least on a first pass through the deck in that way.

 

 

Yes, I did order SKT and I've been getting familiar with some of her videos while I wait. She's a pistol! I just got the email I think yesterday the download links that came with my purchase, so I'll look into what she say about it.

[McFaire]

16 hours ago, Decan said:

I remember explanations like that for the Major Arcana cards by Oswald Wirth (I think his book is translated into English), but he considered that people have to use only the Majors in a reading, therefore maybe in this case these distinctions are more relevant? With the Tarot de Marseille type-like it's often the case, with the R-W it's different because we have to use the 78 cards.

Well, this brings abstract considerations for the cards and I often felt embarrassed by that, or when everything is explained from an Evolutional point of view (I sometimes met that too in some books).

I think that's probably nice to integrate deeply the cards from a spiritual and esoteric point of view but concretely?

Honestly I don't consider that at all (but maybe I'm wrong and I should!); what I should do more systematically is to consider the Majors distinct from the Pips and the Court cards with regard to the particular meaning that they bring in a reading, but it would be another topic.

Yes, I've read that apparently it's more common to use majors only in the Marseilles. I generally just view the majors as having more "weight" so to speak or relating to more significant life-path issues than the pips.

[McFaire]

The three parts of the soul goes back to Plato. I haven't read Plato so I don't much about it, but apparently it's a theme that the major philosophers address. I think Freud's Ego, Id, and Superego my been a different take on the same thing. I haven't studied him either though!

 

I think the different ways of describing the three phases are all describing the same thing, just with different words. A lot of authors talk about it, but I haven't seen any material discusses using it in a reading. Maybe the info is there but I didn't get it.

 

I need to ponder this further.