Difference Between Death & Tower

[-fenrir-]

Hey guys 😊

right now I’m struggling a bit with understanding the differences between Death and Tower.

 

From what I have in my notes so far, death is (other than the tower, where the change happens out of the blue) a change/ending that was foreseeable (natural?) in one way or another.

Maybe even a change that you bring forward yourself or anticipate sometimes? Or is it always about grieve (at least for a moment)?

Would you say Death always involves the new beginning as well?

 

The Tower is more shocking (?). Maybe it changes everything while the death is more about one single thing ending?

 

What about change of facts vs change of views? Would you separate that?

What other differences am I missing?

[ashwsh]

I went through a Tower moment recently, it has always been collapse of hopes, all seemed good and one news or something happened and it all came tumbling down. Death card for me personally has been about complete change, new people, new city, it depends wrt to the situation you are asking about.  Yes I do find tower moment more shocking than death. Tower moment can be about change of facts or a sudden realization that you have completely missed the other side of the story. It could be suddenly coming across a new point of view, I don't see it as a very positive card (in my readings), so one could be dealing with the repercussions as a result of this new discovery.

[LeFou]

For sure, as you suggest, Death can be "the natural end of something," so organic (though it could be premature, and shocking).

 

We might say Death rules over living things and nature, whereas Tower refers to something human-built.

 

P.S. Death of course might show up to represent our -fear- of Death, as opposed to a death or ending.  Likewise, Tower might show up to represent (in a literal sense) some problem with our housing (e.g., eviction, or the stress of a home renovation, or being or feeling homeless).  Every reading is a bit different (of course).

 

 

 

[Mark Foot]

The tower: total destruction, you loose your home, you loose a court case, you are fired from your job, you are caught breaking the law, et al. Jail, depression, fear, accidents, conflicts, complete failure, poverty, sudden bad news, aggressiveness, you are removed from a club or society, et al. 

 

Death: inevitable change, an involuntary change, death of a person you know (yes, most websites will tell you that the death is symbolic, but I strongly disagree. Death does represent physical death). Change of employment but also loss of a job, destruction of something etc. The Death can also signify change; change of personality, change of city, change of interests, etc. 

 

Sometimes in order to bring something new you have to destroy old structures. In this respect The Tower and The Death card are similar. But in my view, the Tower is by far the most negative. The destruction of The Tower is more painful than the ends brought by Death, unless the Death signifies physical death.

 

Of course, it always depends of the following cards; f.e., the effects of the Tower are less intense if you have The Star as a central card or another positive card. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Mark Foot

[ashwsh]

6 minutes ago, Mark Foot said:

The tower: total destruction, you loose your home, you loose a court case, you are fired from your job, you are caught breaking the law, et al. Jail, depression, fear, accidents, conflicts, complete failure, poverty, sudden bad news, aggressiveness, you are removed from a club or society, et al. 

 

Death: inevitable change, an involuntary change, death of a person you know (yes, most websites will tell you that the death is symbolic, but I strongly disagree. Death does represent physical death). Change of employment but also loss of a job, destruction of something etc. 

 

Sometimes in order to bring something new you have to destroy old structures. In this respect The Tower and The Death card are similar. But in my view, the Tower is by far the most negative. 

Agree!

Edited September 12, 2019 by ashwsh

[katrinka]

Very simply:
Death: that's it, the end.
Tower: destruction, upheaval. Can still be lethal, but not always.

[Grizabella]

Death isn't necessarily a new beginning. Death is final and that's that. I've seen people interpret it as the death of a bad trend in a relationship transforming into something fresh and new but that's not the meaning. Just as when a person dies they're gone, it's the same with the relationship. It won't come back from the dead.

 

With the Tower there's an ending of some situation, but you do have the pieces to scrape together and start over anew. It can often be a humiliating experience but in the end, it can actually turn out to have been for the best. We can come out of it a better person with better values.

 

The Tower is a sudden, unforeseeable bolt out of the blue. Death isn't always sudden and unforeseeable. The two cards together in the same reading, though, can indicate a sudden and unforeseeable death. If a person is reading about taking a trip and the Tower, Death and Chariot show up, I'd make some changes in plans. 

 

[bookshop]

Death to me is always about conscious reinvention. I think it's much more accurately represented (as you'll find in many tarot decks) as rebirth, renewal, a phoenix rising from the ashes of its old life, etc. It's a metaphorical reset that happens either naturally because you've reached the end of a cycle or consciously because you've decided to set fire to your old life/self. (I do believe that death isn't the death card — to me the 10 of Swords is the deathiest card in the deck.)

 

The Tower, on the other hand, is all about change inflicted upon you because of total upheaval — often calamity, disaster, chaos, and despair, but also just total unexpected events, culture shock, or even positive derailment of your life. It is superimposed change, due to fate or suddenly altered circumstances, or change out of desperation, because you don't have any other recourse in the situation. It is change out of dire necessity or sudden monumental opportunity.

 

In essence, Death is self-directed change you can control; the Tower is change you can't control. 

 

Does that make sense?

Edited September 17, 2019 by bookshop

[Marigold]

52 minutes ago, bookshop said:

 It's a metaphorical reset that happens either naturally because you've reached the end of a cycle or consciously because you've decided to set fire to your old life/self. 

 

 

Nice post (the whole thing, not just what I quoted).

 

So setting fire to your old life/self, and in a really tough and sad scenario, do you think this card could then be a warning that someone may be thinking of committing suicide ? Or would this be more of a Tower situation ? (of course, we're speaking of a general meaning here, because it would depend also on the surrounding cards.)

Edited September 17, 2019 by Marigold

[Marigold]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:58 PM, Mark Foot said:

 

Sometimes in order to bring something new you have to destroy old structures. In this respect The Tower and The Death card are similar. But in my view, the Tower is by far the most negative. The destruction of The Tower is more painful than the ends brought by Death, unless the Death signifies physical death.

 

 

Also I think the Tower can be more self-inflicted. Not always - sometimes lightning does strike without warning - but I think it's also sometimes a case of "you made your bed, now you're going to have to sleep in it" (in this case, being chucked out in no uncertain terms).

 

You post interesting stuff. I think I follow you. But I don't know how to use the Follow tool. I thought it would be sort of something automatic like a box popping up to tell me the person followed has posted. 

[Mark Foot]

Another interpretation came to my mind: The Tower can also imply a sort of 'revolution'. You deal with people who treat you inappropriately; you stuck on a situation where nobody understands you, they black list you, et al. And you say 'enough is enough'. Hence, if The Tower is followed by 'good cards', then it means that there is an explosion, a conflict with you and other people, which may turn in your favour. 

[Marigold]

14 minutes ago, Mark Foot said:

Another interpretation came to my mind: The Tower can also imply a sort of 'revolution'. You deal with people who treat you inappropriately; you stuck on a situation where nobody understands you, they black list you, et al. And you say 'enough is enough'. Hence, if The Tower is followed by 'good cards', then it means that there is an explosion, a conflict with you and other people, which may turn in your favour. 

I don't think so. In the TdM tradition in a good measure yes, as there is a sense of liberation and gained freedom in spite of the  startling and abrupt manner of operation. But this is already inherent in the card. It's sort of fundamental. I doubt that in the RWS system that the Tower has this positive connotation. It's a helluva dark card. It's 9/11. There's no soft grass to fall on here. 

 

What is that crown doing on the RWS Tower ? What does it represent according to Waite ?

[DanielJUK]

Earlier in the year I was mourning a death and came on to the forum and interpreted someone's reading and I can't remember what deck they used but the Death card was in the pictures and on that card was the keyword "transition". This was a lightbulb moment for me in that sad phase of my life. Transition is a much better word to describe the Death card than renewal. A relationship ending is a transition, you will have a different type of relationship with the person in future, maybe you can be friends? maybe you can never speak to each other again? Deaths of people and animals is a transition, their form has changed, they have gone to a spirit realm according to all our different beliefs (I mean many religions believe in reincarnation), the body and ashes transition in the ground. Death is the ending of one cycle and beginning of another, the transition of a relationship which was just not going to last but you learn from it and maybe find someone better, more what you need in life. That relationship has run it's course in it's current form.

 

But coming to the dramatic Tower, the Tower is the beginning! A Tower relationship break up is the beginning of putting you in a better place but it's going to be kind of horrible for a while. You might find out the person you are going to marry and planning your whole life with is cheating, this is different to Death. Death the relationship just runs its course, but the Tower has your whole foundation pulled from underneath you. You won't be spending the rest of your life with them but it's awful but it's a new start. The next card is the Star, hope again, when you process everything you might love being single and independent and that last person was totally wrong for you!

 

I think both cards are events that had to happen with the majors, the cycle had to change!

 

Thirteeen on AT used to always say that Death was a change and ending, a real one happening. But The Tower is a perception changing and the old one ending. The person in my fictional example now has a happier life without someone lying and leading them on, the tower lead them to find their independence and own happiness.

[Guest libra]

Death being transformation for me isn't about a fresh start or anything like that - I see free transformative nature of the card being more like composting. Something dies, rots, becomes nutrients in soil and only then can something new grow. To me, the new growth of the card is so far in time from the actual moment of Death  that I really don't see it as a card that speaks of beginnings. 

 

The Tower to me is necessary destruction, the fall of things that have become to big for their own good. It's a twinkle thing to live through, but in most decks, the foundation isn't destroyed. It sucks to go through, but the opportunity to rebuild, and with a better schematic, is immediately available. 

[bookshop]

Quote

So setting fire to your old life/self, and in a really tough and sad scenario, do you think this card could then be a warning that someone may be thinking of committing suicide ? Or would this be more of a Tower situation ? (of course, we're speaking of a general meaning here, because it would depend also on the surrounding cards.)

I can only answer this for myself and my personal way of reading the cards, which is not everyone's. I don't read tarot for divine aspects or divinatory properties. Instead, I see all the meaning in the cards as being derived from human archetypes, story tropes, and intuition. Those meanings are things we project into the card imagery. Because of this view, I try never to read the cards as though they predict or impact what a third party will do. They're telling a story for me and the querent to interpret for ourselves, no one else.

 

So, with that in mind, I would never read this card as a warning or prediction for someone else's behavior. Purely in terms of narrative archetypes, the Tower brings us far closer to the sense of total ruin and calamity that a suicide brings into the lives of all who are impacted by it.

 

But that's not the real issue; the issue is that if either of these cards are making you think of the suicide of someone near you, or near to the querent, based on the other cards in a reading or the things they're telling you (or the things happening in your own life), then you're picking up on something real, some real urgent anxiety — whether it's in your life, the life of the person you're thinking about, or the life of the querent and the things they're telling you about themselves. That's the kind of thing that indicates you need to put the cards down and go find that person and have a serious discussion with them. That's not the kind of thing you leave to chance, or up to a picture on a card.

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by bookshop

[Mark Foot]

2 hours ago, Marigold said:

I don't think so. In the TdM tradition in a good measure yes, as there is a sense of liberation and gained freedom in spite of the  startling and abrupt manner of operation. But this is already inherent in the card. It's sort of fundamental. I doubt that in the RWS system that the Tower has this positive connotation. It's a helluva dark card. It's 9/11. There's no soft grass to fall on here. 

 

What is that crown doing on the RWS Tower ? What does it represent according to Waite ?

It always depends on what follows after the tower. If the next cards, f.e, are the Sun, the World or the Empress, or another positive then yes... it could be taken as a 'revolution'. Undeniably the Tower is a dark card. Sometimes revolutions end up to conflicts and civil wars. Definitely a harsh development. But there is liberation in the end. But if the Tower is followed by The Death or by the Devi, or by the Moon, then of course, it indicates negative developments. 

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, Mark Foot said:

It always depends on what follows after the tower. If the next cards, f.e, are the Sun, the World or the Empress, or another positive then yes... it could be taken as a 'revolution'. Undeniably the Tower is a dark card. Sometimes revolutions end up to conflicts and civil wars. Definitely a harsh development. But there is liberation in the end. But if the Tower is followed by The Death or by the Devi, or by the Moon, then of course, it indicates negative developments. 

Okay I'll go with that. 

[Symph]

Oh man!  Such good responses, gave me wonderful insight into how these two cards are read.  I learned card meanings from The Druidcraft and Mystical Mondays decks mostly, along with youtubers opinions.  I never thought of the tower as fully negative I was surprised to hear someone claim it cannot be interpreted positively.  My understanding was that death was foreshadowing either the inevitable ending of a situation but more in the way that seasons end or day turns into night, it's not unexpected, it's simply run it's course.  If you were hoping to hold onto the thing in question this could be quite sad to hear, if it is something that's been plaguing you or in your way this will be welcome news.   

The tower to me represented (as some of you already said) a sudden cataclysmic upheaval, like a catastrophe or misfortune, BUT I also took it to mean sudden breakthrough.  The tearing down of strong internal towers within your psyche, and even to have a sort of dualistic meaning where both of these concepts are being given at once, as I don't believe the universe ever sends us sudden calamity without it being for the very purpose of breakthrough and tearing down old belief structures that were keeping us stuck.  

I mean, if that's too rosy of a view traditionally I find it hard to believe it can't still be a viable way of reading the card anyway because I have interpreted it that way in my own readings and seen the breakthroughs spoken of take place.  

[Grizabella]

The death of someone we care about is definitely a Tower experience. I think the distinction between the Death and Tower cards is that with actual death, something has definitely ended. That person is gone from the material world and we won't see them again as they were in this life in their physical manifestation. With the Tower, we can pick up the pieces and move on, hopefully having learned from the Tower experience, and we're able to rebuild on the foundation that's left. 

 

With the Death card, I believe it's saying that the only way the situation is going to be a transformation to something different, whether for positive or negative, is if we chuck out the old entirely and begin anew. There's an old, old movie called Easy Rider where a biker group sits a dead comrade up at a wake in his honor with a beer and smokes and maybe a woman as though he's still alive. I think trying to configure the Death card as indicating a transformation into something else is similar to that scene in that movie. We can kid ourselves that the person or situation who is gone is changed into something different, but whatever we're seeing as being different is still just a corpse in reality, and it's 99.9% likely that it's not going to be anything we'd really want to hang onto in the long run.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Grizabella

[-fenrir-]

Wow, ask 9 people, get 10 opinions 😅

"Death (...) as rebirth, renewal, a phoenix rising from the ashes of its old life, etc." vs "Death is final and that's that".

"I think the Tower can be more self-inflicted" vs "The Tower, on the other hand, is all about change inflicted upon you because of total upheaval — often calamity, disaster, chaos, and despair, but also just total unexpected events"

"I doubt that in the RWS system that the Tower has this positive connotation. It's a helluva dark card. It's 9/11." vs. "With the Tower there's an ending of some situation, but you do have the pieces to scrape together and start over anew (...) It can actually turn out to have been for the best"

(I'm just trying to summarize this for myself, it's not that easy to see through.)

On 9/17/2019 at 8:51 PM, Mark Foot said:

Another interpretation came to my mind: The Tower can also imply a sort of 'revolution'. You deal with people who treat you inappropriately; you stuck on a situation where nobody understands you, they black list you, et al. And you say 'enough is enough'. Hence, if The Tower is followed by 'good cards', then it means that there is an explosion, a conflict with you and other people, which may turn in your favour. 

Haha, that was actually my first interpretation in that particular reading (like, we need to burn this shit down. NOW.) but then i thought this might be too far of a stretch 😂

 

On 10/3/2019 at 4:22 PM, Ruby Jewel said:

My interpretation of the Tower is that the facade comes down and you see the truth in a situation. It is the sudden awakening to the reality of a situation...as in waking up from a fantasy. The truth hits like a bolt of lightening and breaks the Devil's grip. The Tower is the Emperor's truth that sets you free.

The Death card says it is time to let go. You have to allow something to die in order to create a new path. Possibly a journey of forgiveness. A shift in consciousness is possible if you are able to do this. You are embarking on The Night Sea Journey of transformation (you can see the ship in the background of the Rider Waite deck).

I see the Death card as an opportunity to grow as a person. It is an opportunity as well as a challenge to break the Devil's grip whereas the Tower card is the actual breaking of the Devil's grip. They are both gifts from the spirit world.

I like that one. Do you mean Death is more like a request to get the work done to move on and the Tower the message that it's done?

[2curious]

For me, the main difference between the two cards is that Death is permanent and the Tower is temporary. You can't restore, repair or rebuild something that is dead. You can do all of these things with the Tower. "Life", as you know it, is, or can be, forever changed by either card. But only one gives you the opportunity to take control of what happens next. Death is a 'done deal' - the Tower is not.

Edited October 12, 2019 by 2curious
grammar

[Nemia]

A disintegrated, toppled Tower leaves you with a lot of building materials for a new structure. And lots of free space. Death leaves you with nothing, you have to chuck the dead parts onto the compost heap, and it may take a looong time until you see growth from that dead stuff. 

[Chariot]

I can't tell you the huge number of times I've received the Death card in the 50+ years I've been reading tarot ...and I'm still alive and kicking!  However, on two occasions it did predict an actual death of a person. It was disconcerting to discover this after it happened, as, on both occasions, I'd had no idea what Death was doing in the reading at the time.  Later it was: Oh THAT is what that card was telling me!  So, as @Mark Foot mentioned, Death can actually mean 'death.'  But in my experience, both times these deaths were of people who were not particularly close to me, but whose death impacted on me or my situation.  It was more a cause of consternation than grief.

What the Death card usually signifies, though, is a natural ending point.  It means the removal of the outdated and superfluous that has been impeding progress.  This can be a long-held belief, a relationship, a career path, a plan for the future that just isn't working out. Death brings a much-needed end and should not be feared.  Release what is losing energy, and focus— instead—on what is building momentum. Whatever you have been struggling with is over.  You might have been attempting to cling on, or refuse change, but it's now done and dusted.  More often than not, the feeling left behind is relief.

The reversed Death card can mean that something still remains which should be gone.  Attempting to cling to what needs to be gone is stressful.  Let it go.  Fighting change leads to stagnation which may be longer-lasting and more damaging than a clean end.

In general, for me, the upright Death card is a good card.  I worry a bit if what it's referring to isn't clear ...that's when the 'death' of something or someone is not forseen.  But that happens very rarely to me.  Usually what has ended is very clear during the reading, and I'm usually very glad to see it go.

 

The Tower, on the other hand, is a card I don't usually greet with open arms.  I confess that I'm not a fan of change, especially change that is imposed on me, and is not forseen.  And I don't like surprises all that much, even if they are good ones. The Tower's surprise is generally NOT 'good.'  The Tower signifies a sudden disaster or upheaval which is random and not looked-for.  It can also come as a flash of enlightenment or exposure, a shock that reveals a painful truth. These setbacks or shocks are not welcome, but they can be the storm that clears the air.  However, you are definitely outside your comfort zone, and you have unexpected challenges to face.  Keep in mind that knowing the truth is good, and ignorance is NOT bliss ...even though you may have felt less stressed when  you didn't have a clue.  

The reversed Tower, for me, is a more welcome card than the upright version.  It usually means the disaster wasn't as bad as originally feared, or that it passed me by. It can also mean a revelation that does not cause surprise as it was forseen.  However, it can also be the 'in denial' card.  You can be pretending things aren't as bad as they are.

I've always maintained that tarot is a language. If there are words and concepts you truly don't want to hear or know about, then leave that card out of the deck when you shuffle!  I know a person who ALWAYS removes the Death card from her deck.  She knows there are many ways to look at the Death card, but for her the experience of seeing it turn up in her reading is terrifying, and she feels a lot better about pulling it out beforehand.  I think this is a valid approach, although I'd be wary of pulling too many cards.  Sometimes we need to hear what we don't like.

 

[caliway]

That is SUCH a good question.

Both are something is coming to an end- Death is more a result of nature and change which is natural, the Tower is things that end because humans have built them up too tall, or put too much reliance or importance on them, or made them fragile by making them too 'normal.' Death concludes the old and fertilizes the ground for the new, Towers fall and then leave a space in which we need to rebuild.

It's notable the card after the Tower is the Star, because the fall of the Tower is so cataclysmic to so many people and can involve a whole empire.

Coming off of that, I also notice the card after Death is Temperance... though right now I'm not sure what that relationship is 🙂

[TarotSparks]

The Death card represents transformation, the end of a cycle, and it also indicates that the death of a current belief system is necessary for the birth of a new one.

The Tower is the card of Change. It is a card of destruction, but it is also a card of liberation and rebirth. The Tower is a card of great upheaval, but it is also a card of great opportunity.

They are two very different cards, but yes, similar in a way.