Osho Zen Tarot, or Oracle?

[Symph]

Does anyone have this deck?  It was the second deck I purchased because I love Taoism and the art really spoke to me.  I have had some good readings with it for sure, but I have trouble knowing how to really use it.  It's like... it has major and minor arcana, and to a point the cards do relate to the tarot, but at the same time?  They really kinda don't lol  If you want to read reversals it's gotta be all intuition.  Do you think this deck is best used as an Oracle deck?  Have any of you used it as a Tarot deck?  It's still cool as hell and I intend to work with it, just wondering if anyone else uses it.  

[reall]

I find it works better as Oracle & *personal development cards with me!;D

also One of Best & my fav Book on Tarot & Zen Ever!;D Strongly Recommend!^^

 

btw you may wish to check Transurfing Tarot by Vadim Zeland i find it similar & interesting read!;D

[DanielJUK]

well this is the eternal debate in tarot / oracles, which is it? 🙂 I think it's the deck of all decks so far that is the closest on the line between the two and it's amusing for websites and shops which categorise them separately to decide which group to put it in 🤣

 

It was supposed to be a tarot deck, it has a slightly off traditional tarot system but it tries to keep to majors and the 4 suits and it calls itself a tarot. But a lot of the cards do not represent the tarot structure as individual cards. As @reall said, treat it like an oracle, look and work with each individual card for the message from the oracle. My best advice to use it is that's a complicated deck with all the suit colours and triangles and also don't compare it to the normal tarot structure or RWS, that makes it so hard to use! It works best if you look at the card and just use that, like an oracle, forget all the structure and traditional meanings because this deck doesn't abide by those rules.

 

I found this deck is at it's very best if you use it for an intuitive reading or meditation, pick a card (or do a spread) and get the message from exactly what you see. Or look up the Osho meaning. But don't try to match the traditional tarot ideas with the cards because it just gives you a headache and poor reading. This is my fave deck to take a card, meditate on it for an intuitive message. Also it's a great deck for a reading when someone needs healing, emotionally or whatever. Intuitive readings for a healing message come out great with this! It's quite gentle in a way.

 

I like the deck and glad to own it but also it's extremely tricky in it's overly complicated structure. It calls itself a tarot deck but use it as an oracle 🙂

Edited October 3, 2019 by DanielJUK

[Symph]

3 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

well this is the eternal debate in tarot / oracles, which is it? 🙂 I think it's the deck of all decks so far that is the closest on the line between the two and it's amusing for websites and shops which categorise them separately to decide which group to put it in 🤣

 

It was supposed to be a tarot deck, it has a slightly off traditional tarot system but it tries to keep to majors and the 4 suits and it calls itself a tarot. But a lot of the cards do not represent the tarot structure as individual cards. As @reall said, treat it like an oracle, look and work with each individual card for the message from the oracle. My best advice to use it is that's a complicated deck with all the suit colours and triangles and also don't compare it to the normal tarot structure or RWS, that makes it so hard to use! It works best if you look at the card and just use that, like an oracle, forget all the structure and traditional meanings because this deck doesn't abide by those rules.

 

I found this deck is at it's very best if you use it for an intuitive reading or meditation, pick a card (or do a spread) and get the message from exactly what you see. Or look up the Osho meaning. But don't try to match the traditional tarot ideas with the cards because it just gives you a headache and poor reading. This is my fave deck to take a card, meditate on it for an intuitive message. Also it's a great deck for a reading when someone needs healing, emotionally or whatever. Intuitive readings for a healing message come out great with this! It's quite gentle in a way.

 

I like the deck and glad to own it but also it's extremely tricky in it's overly complicated structure. It calls itself a tarot deck but use it as an oracle 🙂

Are there no "like" or "thumbs up" functions on this site?  I keep wanting to like people's posts but I guess there isn't an option to?  Well anyway thanks for the suggestion @reall I will check it out!  As far as what you're saying @DanielJUK that just confirms exactly what I was feeling.  I kept trying to memorize the correlation of which card in the RW was being represented and SOMETIMES it was like "oh ok I see how that's a zen perspective on that card" but many times it was just like "Umm... how does that have ANYTHING to do with the 3 of wands..." lol  So yeah I guess I'll just consider it a very structured and balanced oracle deck.  And I agree!  Some of the card explanations in the book almost brought me to tears!  (The flower analogy from courage, and the story of the lion who thought he was a sheep in "conditioning" especially!)  

[Carla]

All tarot decks are oracles, but not all oracles are tarot. Osho Zen was the first deck I ever bought. Several decks later, I actually threw that deck in the trash. It's the only deck I ever literally tossed out. No explanation, other than the 'Master' card made the whole deck seem genuinely sinister to me. I'm just telling my personal experience, which is subjective and shared for no particular reason beyond just sharing. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Carla

[Symph]

4 minutes ago, Carla said:

All tarot decks are oracles, but not all oracles are tarot. Osho Zen was the first deck I ever bought. Several decks later, I actually threw that deck in the trash. It's the only deck I ever literally tossed out. No explanation, other than the 'Master' card made the whole deck seem genuinely sinister to me. I'm just telling my personal experience, which is subjective and shared for no particular reason beyond just sharing. 

That card irked me so much as well I took it out first thing!!  It's a picture of the freaking dude who made the deck, who does that?  It's oh so common though for gurus to get that "guru complex" you see it all the time, the cards themselves have beautiful meanings and read very well for me, though they can be a little redundant.  However, (and this may just be due to my own ignorance) I kind of find much of zen philosophy to be a bit redundant.  I mean how many different ways can we reframe the idea of "let go and go with the flow", lol.  At the same time I see how it's one of the hardest things for people to get to sink in so maybe endless reiterations is the only way to go...  I think I'm gonna go draw a creepy mustache on that Master card now, thanks for reminding me 😈

[gregory]

38 minutes ago, Carla said:

All tarot decks are oracles, but not all oracles are tarot. 

VERY VERY true.

 

I hate Osho Zen. And quite apart from that, it reads very badly for me. YMMV. But I am certain sure it isn't REALLY tarot. It seems to have a creepy secret agenda.

[gregory]

4 hours ago, Symph said:

Are there no "like" or "thumbs up" functions on this site?  I 

No and thank the lord for that ! A "like" says nothing - if you (generic, nothing personal !) like something, say why ! If you don't "like" it enough to do that - then just like it in private !

 

There is this, if you're desperate:   - but most forums I've been on have rules that say a post which is only emoticons is spam...

Edited October 3, 2019 by gregory

[Jewel]

I actually wrote a review here on TT&M for this deck and I address that issue. the deck structure, the renaming of Majors, court cards, and suits, etc.  In the end I found that to enjoy the deck I have to use it as an oracle and forget that it is called a Tarot deck.  If you want to look at it here is the review:  

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Jewel

[Symph]

19 minutes ago, gregory said:

No and thank the lord for that ! A "like" says nothing - if you (generic, nothing personal !) like something, say why ! If you don't "like" it enough to do that - then just like it in private !

 

There is this, if you're desperate:   - but most forums I've been on have rules that say a post which is only emoticons is spam...

To a degree I feel you, but there are times I don't have a comment for every post I enjoyed in a thread and want to just show "I read that, I appreciated it, here ya go" haha but fair enough my friend!

[DevonCarter]

23 hours ago, Symph said:

To a degree I feel you, but there are times I don't have a comment for every post I enjoyed in a thread and want to just show "I read that, I appreciated it, here ya go" haha but fair enough my friend!

Both the other forums I'm on (one on this same platform) have reactions you can use for posts - in the one similar to this one, they are emojis that show in the bottom right of the post, and you can click on them to see who posted which one. It's a nice way to support people without having a thread get hugely full of people just offering hugs or love, you can click on the emoji for that on the person's post. There's also "I agree", "Upvote", "laughing", "Thank You", "disgusted" (there's a political forum there, this gets used a lot, as does...), "Angry", "Sad", "Move Along", and "Bless Your Heart". On that forum each person earns points for receiving some of the reactions, as a sort of community reputation... it helps to see how involved someone is and therefore makes it easier to see who's a drama starter or troll. I've also seen people learn and grow, in seeing "Hey, my post got a lot of down votes - what about it is causing that?" and doing more research or having discussions about it.

The other forum just has words like "agree", "funny" and "love" and such under the post - as far as I can tell it just shows how many times each has been clicked, and not by whom.

 

Those are both very large forums, so it's essential that they have some way of reacting to posts without having to have a hundred posts all saying "I agree" or "I love it" or "hugs".

 

I do sometimes find myself wanting to upvote a post or offer a "hugs" emoji or something here, and it's not a thing! This place is still really awesome without it, though.

 

On the Osho Zen, I haven't personally used it, but I'm not really drawn to it, either. I do see that it (just behind the RWS) seems to be one of the decks most often available from places that take donations - so apparently there are a decent number of people who really don't want to keep it to the point of giving it away. But on the other hand, I've seen other people get great readings from it and love it.

[DanielJUK]

4 hours ago, DevonCarter said:

On the Osho Zen, I haven't personally used it, but I'm not really drawn to it, either. I do see that it (just behind the RWS) seems to be one of the decks most often available from places that take donations - so apparently there are a decent number of people who really don't want to keep it to the point of giving it away. But on the other hand, I've seen other people get great readings from it and love it.

 

I think it might be popular to give it away to charity shops and donation places at the moment because a light has been shone on Osho again in a documentary series. I have yet to watch it through but it's called "Wild Wild Country" on Netflix and it's multiple episodes. Some older American forum members remember what went on in America with Osho's group and I remember some people even had personal experiences from the 80's of him setting up a commune in Oregon that they shared on AT. It's the elephant in the room with this deck, let's be honest. There are also followers of Osho (Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh) who are devout to his teachings and of course I respect their beliefs and spiritual journey to enlightenment. But the deck does give me some ethical things to think about spirituality and even today he is a controversial figure.

 

This is my personal conclusion I have made about the deck and Osho as a philosophy. The teachings and ideas are good and nice for humankind and inclusive of all, the deck for me is nice to read with and gives good messages. However as a person and the group following him, didn't follow those teachings very well, they got greedy and behaved appalling to other humans. The free love and sex with all, eventually ousted the gay members because of the AIDS crisis starting and also he had 94 Rolls Royces by the end with many of them being customised. This is common with many religions and philosophies in my view, living by the actual ideas and dogma set just doesn't seem to actually happen. I think I can separate this from the deck, although the master card representing him does creep me out these days. I know some people remove the card from the deck. However I would not go to any Osho group stuff or give them any donations of further money. I like this deck and that is where it ends. I did not know about any of the history before I bought the deck.

 

Osho these days is a huge brand with pay for everything and places you can go on retreat. Rajneesh died in Pune in 1990. The first edition of the tarot deck was published in 1995 and the creator swears (see old AT interview with her here) he gave his insight into the cards whilst he was alive but who knows she also says he wasn't very into the esoteric. I think people could be giving it up to donate it because they find it a/ too hard to figure out b/ have ethical issues about it, especially with the brand back in the spotlight with netflix.

 

Of all my decks I think it has truthfully given me the most to think about. How do I use it for personal readings? I worked out to use it like an oracle, each card as an individual, ignore the tarot links. How do I deal with the ethical considerations? I think to separate it from Osho as a leader / group, make it for work for me and people I read for 🙂 Just what I have worked out about it in my head

[gregory]

5 hours ago, DevonCarter said:

Both the other forums I'm on (one on this same platform) have reactions you can use for posts - in the one similar to this one, they are emojis that show in the bottom right of the post, and you can click on them to see who posted which one. It's a nice way to support people without having a thread get hugely full of people just offering hugs or love, you can click on the emoji for that on the person's post. There's also "I agree", "Upvote", "laughing", "Thank You", "disgusted" (there's a political forum there, this gets used a lot, as does...), "Angry", "Sad", "Move Along", and "Bless Your Heart". On that forum each person earns points for receiving some of the reactions, as a sort of community reputation... it helps to see how involved someone is and therefore makes it easier to see who's a drama starter or troll. I've also seen people learn and grow, in seeing "Hey, my post got a lot of down votes - what about it is causing that?" and doing more research or having discussions about it.

The other forum just has words like "agree", "funny" and "love" and such under the post - as far as I can tell it just shows how many times each has been clicked, and not by whom.

 

Those are both very large forums, so it's essential that they have some way of reacting to posts without having to have a hundred posts all saying "I agree" or "I love it" or "hugs".

 

I do sometimes find myself wanting to upvote a post or offer a "hugs" emoji or something here, and it's not a thing! This place is still really awesome without it, though.

 

It has been discussed.

 

It wasn't popular then either,.

 

[Raggydoll]

I just wanted to give a quick comment regarding “like buttons” etc. It has been suggested and requested in the past and you will find those discussions in the category where they belong:

 

https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/forum/19-assistance-suggestions/

 

And the link Gregory provided should give you a good rundown of the discussion. 

 

There is a clear vision around this forum, and we do not want to turn it into social media (= a Facebook group). There are plenty of those already. We will not encourage any drama or competitive behaviors, and so we have said no to those features. Instead we focus on a friendly, accepting and calm environment where you can make friends and deepen your skills. It’s like a sanctuary for many and we want to keep it that way 🙂

 

[katrinka]

Like buttons are kind of a pain on facebook. If they had their own dedicated notification area, it would be fine. But likes and reactions are all thrown in with your comment notifications. You have to comb through everything and look for the notifications about people actually taking the trouble to converse with you,  buried among all the likes and reactions. And it's easy to miss things, since it's a big, busy place and 80+ new notifications are pretty normal there. 

 

I like the old forum style better. 😊

[Symph]

Ok, I mean I would prefer to have them but not having them is no big deal too.  Just means I gotta do a little more quoting so.... here... we... GO! 

18 hours ago, DevonCarter said:

I do sometimes find myself wanting to upvote a post or offer a "hugs" emoji or something here, and it's not a thing! This place is still really awesome without it, though.

 

On the Osho Zen, I haven't personally used it, but I'm not really drawn to it, either. I do see that it (just behind the RWS) seems to be one of the decks most often available from places that take donations - so apparently there are a decent number of people who really don't want to keep it to the point of giving it away. But on the other hand, I've seen other people get great readings from it and love it.

I agree with you 100 percent, I prefer that kind of system as well, but I also respect this forum's decisions 🙂 As far as the Osho Zen, yeah I really love the deck, I've had great readings with it too but apparently it's got some controversy behind it... as we shall see in the NEXT quote by DanielJUK!

13 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

This is my personal conclusion I have made about the deck and Osho as a philosophy. The teachings and ideas are good and nice for humankind and inclusive of all, the deck for me is nice to read with and gives good messages. However as a person and the group following him, didn't follow those teachings very well, they got greedy and behaved appalling to other humans. The free love and sex with all, eventually ousted the gay members because of the AIDS crisis starting and also he had 94 Rolls Royces by the end with many of them being customised. This is common with many religions and philosophies in my view, living by the actual ideas and dogma set just doesn't seem to actually happen. I think I can separate this from the deck, although the master card representing him does creep me out these days. I know some people remove the card from the deck. However I would not go to any Osho group stuff or give them any donations of further money. I like this deck and that is where it ends. I did not know about any of the history before I bought the deck.

 

Of all my decks I think it has truthfully given me the most to think about. How do I use it for personal readings? I worked out to use it like an oracle, each card as an individual, ignore the tarot links. How do I deal with the ethical considerations? I think to separate it from Osho as a leader / group, make it for work for me and people I read for 🙂 Just what I have worked out about it in my head

Man that DOES make it hard to not feel... like I'm somehow supporting or giving my approval to what sounds like a very questionable organization.  However I feel that this is not a reason to not use the deck.  I mean I don't agree with MUCH of what Aleister Crowley taught and stood for but I still see the Thoth deck as incredibly valuable and a deck I intend to have someday.  I mean... good things come from bad sources all the time, it's the nature of this dualistic reality we live in, so I'll continue to use the Osho until it stops serving me.  I see that's basically what you're doing as well, thanks for the info!

13 hours ago, gregory said:

It has been discussed.

 

It wasn't popular then either,.

 

Ah!  Ok!  Thanks for the link!

2 hours ago, katrinka said:

Like buttons are kind of a pain on facebook. If they had their own dedicated notification area, it would be fine. But likes and reactions are all thrown in with your comment notifications. You have to comb through everything and look for the notifications about people actually taking the trouble to converse with you,  buried among all the likes and reactions. And it's easy to miss things, since it's a big, busy place and 80+ new notifications are pretty normal there. 

 

I like the old forum style better. 😊

Now as to THAT side of things I do agree with you.  I remember that from another forum I was on waaaay back in the day and yeah I'd be wading through "more likes... more likes... ok where's a REAL response..."  So I do feel you on that.  But yeah we don't need to discuss that any further, you guys don't want the like feature?  Not a problem my friends!  

[DevonCarter]

On 10/4/2019 at 8:41 PM, gregory said:

It has been discussed.

 

It wasn't popular then either,.

 

Thanks, I missed that discussion. 

On 10/5/2019 at 2:34 AM, Raggydoll said:

 

There is a clear vision around this forum, and we do not want to turn it into social media (= a Facebook group). There are plenty of those already. We will not encourage any drama or competitive behaviors, and so we have said no to those features. Instead we focus on a friendly, accepting and calm environment where you can make friends and deepen your skills. It’s like a sanctuary for many and we want to keep it that way 🙂

 

Sorry, I'd missed that. I totally get not wanting it to be like Facebook with likes and popularity and competition and such. (I did however find myself looking for the "thank you" button a good four times in this thread alone! I'll get used to it, though - it's really the other positive buttons that I miss - I'm opposed to a "like" button as well.)

 

And I apologize for the derailing. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by DevonCarter

[Saturn Celeste]

I’m   lol

 

 Back to the Osho Zen deck!  I LOVE it as a tarot deck.  All The Master card does is act like a signifier if you use them.  I don’t so I don’t even put the card in my deck.  I use the deck in large spreads because the images are so clear that I don’t think in traditional tarot ‘terms’ as just following the images.  But I use the deck often so it is second nature to me.  When I first started using it as an oracle and ended up with duplicate cards in the reading, I stopped.  It was silly to have a couple of 9 of Pentacles and a couple Devil cards, it diluted the reading for me.  So now I use an actual oracle deck with my Osho Zen tarot deck. 

 

When I first learned the story of Osho, THAT is what put me off about the deck.  The guy was a freakin’ nutcase but I got over that and love the deck for the beauty it holds.

 

[Symph]

53 minutes ago, Saturn Celeste said:

I’m   lol

 

 Back to the Osho Zen deck!  I LOVE it as a tarot deck.  All The Master card does is act like a signifier if you use them.  I don’t so I don’t even put the card in my deck.  I use the deck in large spreads because the images are so clear that I don’t think in traditional tarot ‘terms’ as just following the images.  But I use the deck often so it is second nature to me.  When I first started using it as an oracle and ended up with duplicate cards in the reading, I stopped.  It was silly to have a couple of 9 of Pentacles and a couple Devil cards, it diluted the reading for me.  So now I use an actual oracle deck with my Osho Zen tarot deck. 

 

When I first learned the story of Osho, THAT is what put me off about the deck.  The guy was a freakin’ nutcase but I got over that and love the deck for the beauty it holds.

 

hahaha!  I still haven't looked into him but from all that I hear it sure doesn't sound good at all lol.  But I mean, just because Annakin Skywalker invented R2 D2 and then became Darth Vader, doesn't mean R2 D2 didn't still play a pivotal role in helping to defeat the empire.  (It always goes back to star wars...)  hehe but yeah I'm not gonna let that stop me either.  I also have not really had as good of a time trying to use it as an oracle, but found it to be pretty great as a Tarot deck.  I just can't try to think about what the traditional meanings of the cards are it just gives me a headache, as I believe someone else also stated.  It's kind of heart breaking to know that though, cause some of the descriptions of the cards are just gorgeous in their meaning.  

[Saturn Celeste]

Some of the earliest Osho Zen cards that really brought it home to me was the 7 of Swords or Politics card.  Fantastic image! A few other of my favorites is: XXI Completion, 1 Existence, 12 New Vision, Ace Cups-Go with the Flow, 8 Cups-Letting Go, Ace Pentacles-Maturity, 2 Cups-Moment to Moment, Ace Fire-The Source, 2 Wands-Possibilities, 3 Swords-Ice-olation, and 4 Swords-Postponement.  There are so many cards that demonstrate visually along with the interpretations of the card that makes reading with this deck not only fun, but insightful.  The Aces and Pages of this deck are great!  I feel the cups and rainbows stunning and very east to translate a RW meaning into the Osho system.  But you shouldn’t try to force a RW meaning you might have committed to memory onto an Osho card.

 

The Swords suit was the hardest for me to learn but that is my suit- I am an Aquarian but it was also the most rewarding to learn!  You need to read the book with this deck until you get the feel of the cards.  That is key, it is definitely a study type deck.  I’m really happy to have this deck!

[Symph]

On 10/6/2019 at 10:42 AM, Saturn Celeste said:

Some of the earliest Osho Zen cards that really brought it home to me was the 7 of Swords or Politics card.  Fantastic image! A few other of my favorites is: XXI Completion, 1 Existence, 12 New Vision, Ace Cups-Go with the Flow, 8 Cups-Letting Go, Ace Pentacles-Maturity, 2 Cups-Moment to Moment, Ace Fire-The Source, 2 Wands-Possibilities, 3 Swords-Ice-olation, and 4 Swords-Postponement.  There are so many cards that demonstrate visually along with the interpretations of the card that makes reading with this deck not only fun, but insightful.  The Aces and Pages of this deck are great!  I feel the cups and rainbows stunning and very east to translate a RW meaning into the Osho system.  But you shouldn’t try to force a RW meaning you might have committed to memory onto an Osho card.

 

The Swords suit was the hardest for me to learn but that is my suit- I am an Aquarian but it was also the most rewarding to learn!  You need to read the book with this deck until you get the feel of the cards.  That is key, it is definitely a study type deck.  I’m really happy to have this deck!

Yes it really is a beautiful deck, when I first got it (as I did with most of my decks) I just went through each card, read the book's description, then studied the picture until it felt like I had really bonded with it.  Some of the card descriptions were just so beautiful and rich in their meaning it felt like I was having a spiritual experience just learning them.  So odd to think that the dude who created it is so controversial but oh well, the deck still stands up as a great tool for spiritual growth regardless.  

 

[Jewel]

The Strength card in this deck is probably my most favorite strength card of all time, the struggle that plant went through to root and then flower despite all odds.

 

[Carla]

On 10/3/2019 at 7:32 PM, gregory said:

I hate Osho Zen. It seems to have a creepy secret agenda.

 

100% with you on that. I hate it, too. Total turn-off. 

[Raggydoll]

15 minutes ago, Carla said:

 

100% with you on that. I hate it, too. Total turn-off. 

Me three. This is a deck I would never buy, just like I wouldn’t buy any of the works by Doreen Virtue. I guess I have a much bigger issue with creators that pretend to be virtuous (ha!) than those like Crowley that never hid any of their flaws. Not that I’m a huge advocate of the Thoth deck either - but it’s in my collection none the less! I don’t have any opinion regarding those that DO love and use any of those decks though. Everyone is different, it is as it should be! 

 

[Jewel]

I am not a fan of the deck, and it makes me want to bang my head against the wall when I try and use it as a Tarot deck, but I do enjoy looking at the pretty pictures.  There are quite a few and if used as an oracle I can just enjoy the art and wipe Osho out of the equation   The books written to go with that deck are AWFUL! But if I am going to read with a deck - tarot or oracle - this is not a deck I will reach for.