Sybil - Arthur E. Waite's daughter

[Marigold]

I read that Arthur Waite had a daughter called Sybil. But I can't find any information about her at all. Does anyone know what happened to her ? Her life and when she died and all ? I only found one photo of her with her father.

 

There doesn't seem to be a thorough biography of Arthur Waite written. It's odd. Would be a fascinating endeavour for a biographer. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Marigold

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

I checked Mary Greer's blog, thought if anyone had something she would, no dice

Ancestry.com lists her as his daughter, I wonder if following up with the sons would turn up something?

http://www.waitegenealogy.org/FGS/The Ancestry of Arthur Edward Waite.pdf

very interesting question. 

[katrinka]

I'm sure you could find out more by starting with cemetery records. Women can be a b*tch to trace because of all the name changes. I don't see any indication that Sibyl Waite ever married, but then most of what comes up is the same information copied on multiple websites.

A date of birth would be helpful. All that I'm seeing is that Waite married her mother when he was 30, putting her birth at 1887 or after.

I did find a site that says (The RWS) "has become even more widely spread since it's re-release in 1971 thanks to the efforts of Waite's only child, his daughter, Sybil.:" https://everything2.com/title/Arthur+Edward+Waite

So if anybody has an in with Kaplan, he'd be one to ask (on the condition that there's any truth to that statement..)

Edited December 27, 2019 by katrinka

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, AJ-ish/Sharyn said:

Ancestry.com lists her as his daughter, I wonder if following up with the sons would turn up something?

Whose sons? Sibyl's? Where did you see that?

[Marigold]

11 hours ago, katrinka said:

I'm sure you could find out more by starting with cemetery records. Women can be a b*tch to trace because of all the name changes. I don't see any indication that Sibyl Waite ever married, but then most of what comes up is the same information copied on multiple websites.

A date of birth would be helpful. All that I'm seeing is that Waite married her mother when he was 30, putting her birth at 1887 or after.

I did find a site that says (The RWS) "has become even more widely spread since it's re-release in 1971 thanks to the efforts of Waite's only child, his daughter, Sybil.:" https://everything2.com/title/Arthur+Edward+Waite

So if anybody has an in with Kaplan, he'd be one to ask (on the condition that there's any truth to that statement..)

Maybe it would be easier to start with the birth registers ? I've never done any research in geneology but there must be loads of websites who would give advice on how to go about this.

 

And I'm thinking that I'll try and contact the person who made that article you referenced to see where they get that info from. Also, I assume that Stuart Kaplan is still around and there must be a practical way to contact him. He must know surely. An email address should be able to be found which would give some kind of direct contact and he could shed whatever light he has. 

 

I'm really really curious here. I find it a bit strange that Sybil is never mentioned anywhere. And I want to know more about her. 

 

 

[Raggydoll]

I sort of remember hearing/reading that there are no living relatives of his anymore. That his daughter had passed and that she never had any children of her own. But I cannot remember where I heard it from and so I don’t know if it’s true. Stuart is certainly alive and you can email his secretary. I think his secretary was a member on AT but I can’t remember her username. I’m thinking that @gregory might know.

[gregory]

gregory doesn't but will try and find out.

[Raggydoll]

7 minutes ago, gregory said:

gregory doesn't but will try and find out.

Thank you! 

 

[_R_]

15 hours ago, Marigold said:

There doesn't seem to be a thorough biography of Arthur Waite written. It's odd. Would be a fascinating endeavour for a biographer. 

 

Waite's own autobiography is entitled Shadows of Life and Thought.

[gregory]

3 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

Thank you! 

 

Wait - gregory has her email.... Also Kaplan's....

 

@_R_ an autobiography isn't always the best option.... Often prejudiced (see under those of many politicians...)

[_R_]

10 minutes ago, gregory said:

Wait - gregory has her email.... Also Kaplan's....

 

@_R_ an autobiography isn't always the best option.... Often prejudiced (see under those of many politicians...)

Sure, but in the absence of anything else, it's the first place to start. I don't recall if he goes into personal details such as family, but it's out there at any rate.

 

[Raggydoll]

9 minutes ago, gregory said:

Wait - gregory has her email.... Also Kaplan's....

 

That was what I thought. So now gregory should send an email asking about Waites daughter 

 

[Marigold]

16 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

That was what I thought. So now gregory should send an email asking about Waites daughter 

 

Exactly my thoughts. I mean, she's by far the best person to do this pleasant task.

 

Sometimes publishers don't like talking about these things, because often descendants get cheated out of their inheritance rights. Through bad wills, or lack of wills, or oft times just plain trickery. I wonder who owns the RIGHTS to this deck and how they came into possession of it. I'd like to hear the whole history and story. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some murkiness lying there somewhere. And that Sybil would be able to tell us lots of things.... if only one could get hold of some of her letters for instance. I wonder what her relationship was with her father. I suspect distant but who knows. 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Marigold

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, _R_ said:

Waite's own autobiography is entitled Shadows of Life and Thought.

I'd like to read this. I don't seem to find it in pdf form. Have you any pointers ?

 

I imagine it's not so much about his personal life though and more an autobiography of his spiritual journey.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Marigold

[_R_]

9 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I wonder who owns the RIGHTS to this deck and how they came into possession of it. I'd like to hear the whole history and story.

Start here: https://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/faq.htm

 

6 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I'd like to read this. I don't seem to find it in pdf form. Have you any pointers ?

 

Still in print, as far as I know.

[Marigold]

_R_ , thanks for the pointer to the sacredtexts page. That's what I thought. Kaplan and Co are the looters. I've always mistrusted US Games. Very much so indeed. You remember what they did to the Oswald Wirth for instance? And their card stock is often poor too. They really cut their costs. They're just into Tarot for the money . 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Marigold

[Raggydoll]

19 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Exactly my thoughts. I mean, she's by far the best person to do this pleasant task.

 

Sometimes publishers don't like talking about these things, because often descendants get cheated out of their inheritance rights. Through bad wills, or lack of wills, or oft times just plain trickery. I wonder who owns the RIGHTS to this deck and how they came into possession of it. I'd like to hear the whole history and story. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some murkiness lying there somewhere. And that Sybil would be able to tell us lots of things.... if only one could get hold of some of her letters for instance. I wonder what her relationship was with her father. I suspect distant but who knows. 

 

 

I think it was Mary Greer who said that someone contemporary to Waite described him as having a warm and humorous side when he was with his family (I think we can safely conclude that it wasn’t Crowley who said that 🤣). 

[gregory]

Gregory has emailed to ask about possible biographies and will follow it up from there.

 

I will also ask Mary.

[gregory]

58 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I'd like to read this. I don't seem to find it in pdf form. Have you any pointers ?

 

I imagine it's not so much about his personal life though and more an autobiography of his spiritual journey.

If yo have the nerve:

 

http://terment.ru/en/?q=Shadows+of+Life+and+Thought+-+Arthur+Edward+Waite

[_R_]

28 minutes ago, gregory said:

If yo have the nerve:

 

http://terment.ru/en/?q=Shadows+of+Life+and+Thought+-+Arthur+Edward+Waite

Fraudulent spam website, I'm afraid. There are many such around. Best to remove entirely.

[Raggydoll]

Here’s a description of the book:

 

Shadows of Life and Thought, long out of print, details his life from his early love of books and the realm of Faërie through his involvement with the Golden Dawn and Freemasonry and his friendship with Arthur Machen to the esoteric Christian mysticism that became the centre of his life and work. 

 

So the guy was into faeries. Who knew. The rest I did know. I might have to read this book. 

[Raggydoll]

1 hour ago, gregory said:

Gregory has emailed to ask about possible biographies and will follow it up from there.

 

I will also ask Mary.

[gregory]

The book is in print and easily available.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Life-Thought-Autobiography-Waite/dp/1906834350/ref=sr_1_1

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadows-Life-Thought-Autobiography-Waite/dp/1906834350

[gregory]

1 hour ago, _R_ said:

Fraudulent spam website, I'm afraid. There are many such around. Best to remove entirely.

That's exactly why I said if you dare....

[Guest]

On March 10, 1889, Sybil Waite was baptised Ada Sybil Waite. Her date of birth was 22 October 1888. Her death was registered in Dover in July, 1980.  Sybil was her middle-name. 

There doesn’t seem to be any records of marriage for Sybil.
 

I have a vague recollection that Stuart Kaplan acquired her copy of the Waite-Smith - I cannot remember who told me. It could have been someone at TABI.

 

With regards to a perspective marriage, It might be worth checking the headstone for the family plot. 
 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Guest