loveheartlight Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) Certain caveats: I am aware that the Myers-Briggs 16 Personalities has been the subject of harsh criticism among psychologists. Matching the 16 Personality Types with the Court Cards isn't new. It's been done before, and many websites show it. I may be posting in the wrong place in the Forum. Having said all of the above, I want to say that I can't do much about the debates going on among psychologists as to the merits of the Myers-Briggs tests, as I have no Major in Psychology. I'm just a tarot card reader; that the various Tarot websites online themselves don't agree which personality type matches the cards; if I posted in the wrong place, I hope a moderator can help. Still, maybe we can talk about it and see how these personality categories can help our interpretation of Court Cards. I wish to have a place where we can discuss personality assignments to the court cards and see if this theory holds water. Here's a chart I found on the net. Source link is here. According to 16personalities.com... Intuitive (N) and Thinking (T) personality types, Analysts are known for their rationality, impartiality, and intellectual excellence. Sounds like the Swords, right? Intuitive (N) and Feeling (F) personality types, Diplomats are known for their empathy, diplomatic skills, and passionate idealism. Could this be Cups? Observant (S) and Judging (J) personality types, Sentinels are known for their practicality and focus on order, security, and stability. Possibly the Pentacles? Observant (S) and Prospecting (P) personality types, Explorers are known for their spontaneity, ingenuity, and ability to live in the moment. Would these be Wands? Each of these have four sub-types under them. Let's look at each one. Edited January 3, 2020 by loveheartlight
loveheartlight Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) Analysts. The Swords. INTJ (Introversion, Intuition, Thinking, Judging) are the Architects. They are imaginative and strategic thinkers, with a plan for everything. Queen of Swords. INTP (Introversion, Intuition, Thinking, Perceiving) are the Logicians. They are innovative inventors with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge. Page of Swords. ENTJ (Extroversion, Intuition, Thinking, Judging) are the Commanders. They are bold, imaginative and strong-willed leaders, always finding a way – or making one. King of Swords. ENTP (Extroversion, Intuition, Thinking, Perceiving) are the Debaters. They are smart and curious thinkers who cannot resist an intellectual challenge. Knight of Swords. Edited January 3, 2020 by loveheartlight
loveheartlight Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 Diplomats. The Cups. INFJ (Introversion, Intuition, Feeling, Judging) Advocates are quiet and mystical, yet very inspiring and tireless idealists. Queen of Cups. INFP (Introversion, Intuition, Feeling, Perceiving) Mediators are poetic, kind and altruistic people, always eager to help a good cause. Page of Cups. ENFJ (Extroversion, Intution, Feeling, Judging) Protagonists are charismatic and inspiring leaders, able to mesmerize their listeners. King of Cups. ENFP (Extroversion, Intution, Feeling, Perceiving) Campaigners are enthusiastic, creative and sociable free spirits, who can always find a reason to smile. Knight of Cups.
loveheartlight Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 Sentinels. The Coins. ISTJ (Introversion, Sensing, Thinking, Judging) Logisticians are practical and fact-minded individuals, whose reliability cannot be doubted. Queen of Pentacles. ISFJ (Introversion, Sensing, Feeling, Judging) Defenders are very dedicated and warm protectors, always ready to defend their loved ones. Page of Pentacles. ESTJ (Extroversion, Sensing, Thinking, Judging) Executives are excellent administrators, unsurpassed at managing things – or people. King of Pentacles. ESFJ (Extroversion, Sensing, Feeling, Judging) Consuls are extraordinarily caring, social and popular people, always eager to help. Knight of Pentacles.
loveheartlight Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) Explorers. The Wands. ISTP (Introversion, Sensing, Thinking, Perceiving) Virtuosi are bold and practical experimenters, masters of all kinds of tools. Queen of Wands. ISFP (Introversion, Sensing, Feeling, Perceiving) Adventurers are flexible and charming artists, always ready to explore and experience something new. Page of Wands. ESTP (Extroversion, Sensing, Thinking, Perceiving) Entrepreneurs are smart, energetic and very perceptive people, who truly enjoy living on the edge. King of Wands. ESFP (Extroversion, Sensing, Feeling, Perceiving) Entertainers are spontaneous, energetic and enthusiastic people – life is never boring around them. Knight of Wands. Edited January 3, 2020 by loveheartlight
Arch Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 @loveheartlight I feel that applying MBTI directly to the courtcards is difficult. As it becomes this exercise of matching surface traits of profiles up against surface level descriptions of the cards. Typology is an interesting field and MBTI is one of the most popular gateways into typology besides the Enneagram. I think that it becomes this subjective interpretation where once you assign a type to a card, that card becomes that type for you. Yet there is nothing wrong with assigning a different type to cards from a different take on some theoretic stance. Given that there are Tarot decks that have different interpretations of elemental associations for Swords and Wands in regards to Fire and Air, we can see how easily trying to fit MBTI types to cards, could create a schism in terms of what type is what. I pondered some months ago about writing some articles and linking them up to typology, but I decided against it, since it felt like a quagmire. Either it would become too shallow from the MBTI side, or too deep from the Jungian side. Both felt wrong to me at the time. But if I was to insert my two cents to be helpful, since you opened that can of worm anyway... 😉 I'd say the the NF-NT split from SJ-SP is somewhat unatural. Though I get why it is done, as it is addressing surface behaviorist traits that seem relevant. Which of course underlines a feature of the MBTI as it is Jungian theory turned behaviorist. From a Jungian stance it makes more sense to be consistent, with either NF-NT matched with SF-ST or with NJ-NP matched with SJ-SP. Even though this is consistent, it adds a layer of complexity that demands a deeper understanding from the reader. A deeper understanding that doesn't lend itself well to a mass appeal, which is something MBTI has embraced more than anything, the ability to make people feel they understand the system quickly and intuitively, with the tradeoff that it becomes very stereotypical and some may argue wrong.
Natural Mystic Guide Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 I have been working with MBTI correspondences with the court cards for about six years now. You and I agree regarding the suits of Swords and Cups. We differ regarding assigning the other two suits. Let me know if you would like me to share the correspondences that make sense to me. I love systems and I particularly like MBTI. I find it much more accurate than the Enneagram system. BTW, I am an INFJ.
Arch Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Natural Mystic Guide said: I have been working with MBTI correspondences with the court cards for about six years now. You and I agree regarding the suits of Swords and Cups. We differ regarding assigning the other two suits. Let me know if you would like me to share the correspondences that make sense to me. I love systems and I particularly like MBTI. I find it much more accurate than the Enneagram system. BTW, I am an INFJ. I've also played with correspondences to MBTI sometimes, but I think my matches vary a bit from what is offered above and what you seem have. Beyond MBTI correspondences I personally just get lost in contradictions. Such systems are fun and I agree that it is easier to see the MBTI over the Enneagram as correct. The Enneagram is just too saddled with history and one conflation after another. Which is what you get in a systems that in some sense of the word is just a huge spiritual anarchy. That being said, I've had a lot of usefulness flow from my own interpretation of the Enneagram.
loveheartlight Posted January 7, 2020 Author Posted January 7, 2020 Hello, @Arch! Thank you for your response and I humbly admit that I have not studied MBTI deeply enough. My understanding of it is superficial, and so any assignment I made towards the court cards is based on my superficial understanding. I do plan to deepen my study of these types and see if the Court Cards, interpreted as actual people or personalities, can be usefully assigned with them. @Natural Mystic Guide, I'll be happy to see what correspondences you have come up with. Thanks for volunteering them!
Natural Mystic Guide Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Here are the correspondences that I use. The Tarot Netivot is a feminine oriented deck, so the court cards are primarily female. I am no authority on MBTI. It rather confuses me. I just read the descriptions and see what energies correspond best with the associations I already have for the court cards. Thanks for initiating this discussion. It is always interesting! Fruits: Maiden of Fruits (ISTP) ‘Artisan/Athlete’ Person of Fruits (ESTP) ‘Builder/Sensualist’ Mother of Fruits (ISTJ) ‘Keeper of the Old Ways’ Matriarch of Fruits (ESTJ) ‘Benefactress’ Waters: Maiden of Waters (INFP) ‘Idealist’ Person of Waters (ENFP) ‘The Visionary’ Mother of Waters (INFJ) ‘Empathy’ Matriarch of Waters ENFJ) ‘Inspiration’ Blades: Maiden of Blades (INTP) “The Player” Person of Blades (ENTP) ‘The Defender’ Mother of Blades (INTJ) ‘The Organizer’ Matriarch of Blades (ENTJ) ‘Wisdom’ Flames: Maiden of Flames (ISFP) ‘Artist’ Person of Flames (ESFP) ‘Entertainer’ Mother of Flames (ISFJ) ‘Hospitality’ Matriarch of Flames (ESFJ) ‘Leader’
loveheartlight Posted January 7, 2020 Author Posted January 7, 2020 I love that you used the Tarot Netivot, and bringing it into my attention. I have never seen nor heard of it before. I can certainly see the direct match of the titles given to the court card (Maiden of Flames is the Artist, Matriarch of Blades is Wisdom, etc.). What a wonderful deck and the MBTI assignments make sense to me at first glance. Again, I have only the most superficial knowledge of MBTI and if I find some time this year from my many projects I might devote time to go deep into it. This is really exciting!
Arch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Natural Mystic Guide said: Here are the correspondences that I use. The Tarot Netivot is a feminine oriented deck, so the court cards are primarily female. I am no authority on MBTI. It rather confuses me. I just read the descriptions and see what energies correspond best with the associations I already have for the court cards. Thanks for initiating this discussion. It is always interesting! Fruits: Maiden of Fruits (ISTP) ‘Artisan/Athlete’ Person of Fruits (ESTP) ‘Builder/Sensualist’ Mother of Fruits (ISTJ) ‘Keeper of the Old Ways’ Matriarch of Fruits (ESTJ) ‘Benefactress’ Waters: Maiden of Waters (INFP) ‘Idealist’ Person of Waters (ENFP) ‘The Visionary’ Mother of Waters (INFJ) ‘Empathy’ Matriarch of Waters ENFJ) ‘Inspiration’ Blades: Maiden of Blades (INTP) “The Player” Person of Blades (ENTP) ‘The Defender’ Mother of Blades (INTJ) ‘The Organizer’ Matriarch of Blades (ENTJ) ‘Wisdom’ Flames: Maiden of Flames (ISFP) ‘Artist’ Person of Flames (ESFP) ‘Entertainer’ Mother of Flames (ISFJ) ‘Hospitality’ Matriarch of Flames (ESFJ) ‘Leader’ That is an interesting assignment of types in relation to the NF-NT-SF-ST angle. I guess it makes sense to me that you choose to have extroverted perceives as maidens and persons, while the introverted perceives are mother and matriarchs. It is at least consistent, though I wonder what the difference would be if the orders you have was switched. Like if ESFP was matriarch instead of ESFJ or ESFP was maiden instead of ISFP. Do you feel there is a guiding principle there for you to chose that difference? Personally I've thought about this a few times, but always given up because I always see another way I could order them. 😫 10 hours ago, loveheartlight said: Hello, @Arch! Thank you for your response and I humbly admit that I have not studied MBTI deeply enough. My understanding of it is superficial, and so any assignment I made towards the court cards is based on my superficial understanding. I do plan to deepen my study of these types and see if the Court Cards, interpreted as actual people or personalities, can be usefully assigned with them. Yeah, as I said, I don't really think there is a set way to actually assign them objectively correctly due to the nature of Tarot and MBTI. As you saw @Natural Mystic Guide took a quite different perspective and went a step beyond MBTI, into a slightly more Jungian territory, and still I guess people could argue for different constellations within that without her being objectively wrong in any way. I'm really glad you brought this up, as it has given me a couple of new ideas. 😀 I guess I should add how I've thought about the traditional MBTI types in terms of Tarot in the past, just for completeness. This is in no way an authoritative answer, just what made sense to me at the time. This was more or less me reading profile descriptions from MBTI, and other peoples descriptions of the court cards, and just finding what seemed to be the best match from there. Pentacles: King: ESTJ Queen: ESFJ Knight: ISTJ Page: ISFJ Wands: King: ESTP Queen: ISFP Knight: ESFP Page: ISTP Swords: King: INTJ Queen: ENTP Knight: ENTJ Page: INTP Cups: King: ENFJ Queen: INFJ Knight: INFP Page: ENFP
loveheartlight Posted January 7, 2020 Author Posted January 7, 2020 @Arch, very interesting associations. Thank you for sharing them. I now see more clearly that we will all have our own personal slants in assigning the MBTI to court cards, and it's great to be able to integrate all of these perspectives. I am now thinking of a 16x16 grid, where in one personality type, say ESTJ, all the Court Cards are present but expressing the personality type in their own unique way.
Arch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 @loveheartlight That works, and also brings forth the Jungian concept of the wholeness of the Self.
Natural Mystic Guide Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Quote I am now thinking of a 16x16 grid, where in one personality type, say ESTJ, all the Court Cards are present but expressing the personality type in their own unique way. That's a neat idea! 🌺💜🌺
Arch Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) @loveheartlight This video reminded me of this thread, often when trying to make two systems match up like Tarot and MBTI, we often see what is inside of us more than anything that is actually there. *Of course this video goes far beyond the thing I'm pointing to here, it is quite long. Edited January 9, 2020 by Arch
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