Christian iconography and tarot history

[gregory]

She has more than history in there (so don't sabotage your exercises, symph !) - and covers ALL the theories - even the Egyptian one. I just think it is a brilliant book for anyone needing a first one - it doesn't talk down at all, but doesn't go into longwinded impenetrable stuff. There are more detailed ones for history, of course, but for someone who had barely grasped that Christianity imbued it from day one - including TdM AND Waite....

 

You will all now hate it and me. Oh well.

[devin]

Sorry to keep this thread off topic. This is my last time. Promise.

3 hours ago, gregory said:

You will all now hate it and me.

Nah, this hasn't changed my opinion of you. Not. one. little. bit. 😐

 

@Symph If you don't want to read a book. I've looked around online for a decent tarot history introduction but can't find one. Well, there are lots, but they're all a bit (or a lot) crap. So here's a more detailed primer, if you're interested: https://tarot-heritage.com/history-4/ 

 

Do you know of a better one @gregory?

Edited February 19, 2020 by devin

[katrinka]

I took JMD's course years ago and it was solid. Lots of great history there. 
You could try contacting him and asking if the material is still available in some form. https://www.fourhares.com
 

[Raggydoll]

5 minutes ago, katrinka said:

I took JMD's course years ago and it was solid. Lots of great history there. 
You could try contacting him and asking if the material is still available in some form. https://www.fourhares.com
 

His book is still available for purchase. I think it’s on one of those print on demand sites. Lulu perhaps? It’s very good, I agree. I haven’t read all of it (it’s a meaty book!) but I’ve loved everything I’ve seen so far! 

[katrinka]

Ah, yes, here it is! http://www.lulu.com/shop/jean-michel-david/reading-the-marseille-tarot/paperback/product-15833660.html
Not cheap, but the best Tarot history material out there, AFAIK.

[Raggydoll]

31 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Ah, yes, here it is! http://www.lulu.com/shop/jean-michel-david/reading-the-marseille-tarot/paperback/product-15833660.html
Not cheap, but the best Tarot history material out there, AFAIK.

Yes it’s expensive but absolutely worth it. 

[Symph]

I also was trying not to respond to help get this thread back on track, (sorry @sixdegrees we all do want to hear your ideas about the new system you're wanting to create!!)  But yes I'm super excited for this book @gregory it really does sound to me like it could put the final nails in the coffin for this timidity I've been experiencing toward the Tarot.  It already feels like I'm out of the woods just thanks to time and refusing to abandon this forum, (not gonna lie sometimes I wanted to but just from anxiety) but this last week I have had MUCH better emotions toward the Tarot and just everything in general, I feel ready to absorb information, as I think I'd been keeping things at a distance without really meaning to for most of my time here.  Will be getting the book Friday, and next paycheck I might even get that expensive one about The Marseille.  Now please don't respond to me anymore we gotta let this awesome thread be what it was intended to be!!!  hahaha  

[gregory]

Maybe a mod could split it ?

[Raggydoll]

45 minutes ago, gregory said:

Maybe a mod could split it ?

I just did 🙂 Hopefully I got the topic and placement fairly okay.

[Symph]

I was like, what the hell is this and when did I post it???  I now see, you took our off topic conversation out of the "New RWS system thread" and made it it's own thing, even gave it a perfectly fitting title.... you're kind of amazing sometimes you know that @Raggydoll?  

[geoxena]

34 minutes ago, Symph said:

I was like, what the hell is this and when did I post it???  I now see, you took our off topic conversation out of the "New RWS system thread" and made it it's own thing, even gave it a perfectly fitting title.... you're kind of amazing sometimes you know that @Raggydoll?  

Are you new to online forums, too?

[Raggydoll]

42 minutes ago, Symph said:

I was like, what the hell is this and when did I post it???  I now see, you took our off topic conversation out of the "New RWS system thread" and made it it's own thing, even gave it a perfectly fitting title.... you're kind of amazing sometimes you know that @Raggydoll?  

Thank you very much Symph, that's lovely to hear!

[Symph]

12 minutes ago, geoxena said:

Are you new to online forums, too?

No I was born yesterday 🤤

 

 

[offramp]

On 2/18/2020 at 7:20 AM, Symph said:

WOW..  How ironic that the Tarot is seen as so "demonic" by the church when clearly the bible and it's themes were heavily influencing it all along...  

Most of the innovative Tarots have been generated by Freemasons.

[Barleywine]

I've had the Giles book for years but have never been able to get on with it; if gregory recommends it I will have to give it another shot.

 

Just a fact check; the late-15th-Century Sola Busca was one of the first decks to include the kind of minor-card scenic vignettes popularized by the RWS; compare Smith's 3 of Swords to the Sola Busca version and to its 3 of Batons. It's impossible to explore the Tarot de Marseille and other early decks without running head-on into what I see as the "dynamic tension" between religious and secular iconography in the trumps. It gives me the notion that the Emperor stands at one end of the patriarchal spectrum and the Pope at the other, and they have an uneasy truce in which one defers to the other in the affairs proper to its station. I read in one history book that the trump cards may have been used to teach moral lessons to French school-children.

[Scandinavianhermit]

A few other obviously Christian elements of symbolism in tarot:

 

• The Popess looks exactly how the virtue of Faith and The Church are represented allegorically in illustrations and ecclesiastical art during the late Middle Ages, the 16th century and the 17th century.
• Justice, Strength and Temperance were grouped together with Prudence as 'the cardinal virtues', based on Aristotle and Book of Wisdom 8.7. They are often seen in illustrations and ecclesiastical art during the late Middle Ages, the 16th century and the 17th century.
• The wheel of Fortune was a popular motif in late mediaeval and renaissance church interiors, warning about the transient nature of all human accomplishments.
• Something very much resembling The World, as depicted in Belgian tarot decks, is found depicted in the cathedral of Siena, Italy.