Writing Up Our Readings

[Barleywine]

My wife gets after me for spending too much time writing up my observations for online clients and not charging enough for it, and she's probably right but I wouldn't feel honest doing any less. If I'm doing a Celtic Cross, I usually have around a page of standard introductory text that I cut-and-paste with minor tweaks from reading-to-reading, a "big-picture" summary of the most compelling features of the spread, a one-paragraph-per-card narrative, and a closing summary of anything I find particularly noteworthy in the way of advice for the sitter. Then I add a digital photo of the spread. By the time I'm done, the write-up typically ranges from 3,500 to 4,500 words and fills up to eight pages. It takes around four hours before editing, and covers pretty much everything I would say in a 45-minute face-to-face reading.

 

I'm curious what your experience has been in this area, especially with larger spreads. I don't begrudge my paying clients the right to a full explanation and I love doing it, but I have no sense of the "norm" in this regard.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Barleywine

[Grace]

Wow! That's an epic essay each time! I only read for friends so I can't comment on the norm. Is there a way you can send a voice recording/video of the reading, maybe with a transcript. There are programs/apps that do this automatically - wish I could tell you their names, but I do know they exist. With any luck they aren't too expensive.

[Barleywine]

27 minutes ago, Grace said:

Wow! That's an epic essay each time! I only read for friends so I can't comment on the norm. Is there a way you can send a voice recording/video of the reading, maybe with a transcript. There are programs/apps that do this automatically - wish I could tell you their names, but I do know they exist. With any luck they aren't too expensive.

I'm something of a "dinosaur" when it comes to presentation technology. (I even just did a blog post about it: https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/2020/03/06/divinosaurus-recidivus/ ). If I can't look my sitter in the eye and have a dialogue while delivering the reading, I would rather just write up my thoughts and email them. I complain about amateur YouTubers but I'm quite sure I couldn't do any better.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Barleywine

[Grace]

19 minutes ago, Barleywine said:

I complain about amateur YouTubers but I'm quite sure I couldn't do any better.

🤣 You may not have to show your face, just the spread as you point out different cards (I hope you have expressive hands!). That was supposed to be a joke, but might not be bad idea. Otherwise, the recording can be purely for the purposes of running it through the transcription/dictation program to assist getting your words down for a final edit. Ofcourse, this advice is completely unsolicited and a bit off-topic. I hope you get some answers to your original question.

[Barleywine]

17 minutes ago, Grace said:

🤣 You may not have to show your face, just the spread as you point out different cards (I hope you have expressive hands!). That was supposed to be a joke, but might not be bad idea. Otherwise, the recording can be purely for the purposes of running it through the transcription/dictation program to assist getting your words down for a final edit. Ofcourse, this advice is completely unsolicited and a bit off-topic. I hope you get some answers to your original question.

This is a good idea! Thanks.

[53rdspirit]

3 hours ago, Barleywine said:

My wife gets after me for spending too much time writing up my observations for online clients and not charging enough for it, and she's probably right but I wouldn't feel honest doing any less. If I'm doing a Celtic Cross, I usually have around a page of standard introductory text that I cut-and-paste with minor tweaks from reading-to-reading, a "big-picture" summary of the most compelling features of the spread, a one-paragraph-per-card narrative, and a closing summary of anything I find particularly noteworthy in the way of advice for the sitter. Then I add a digital photo of the spread. By the time I'm done, the write-up typically ranges from 3,500 to 4,500 words and fills up to eight pages. It takes around four hours before editing, and covers pretty much everything I would say in a 45-minute face-to-face reading.

 

I'm curious what your experience has been in this area, especially with larger spreads. I don't begrudge my paying clients the right to a full explanation and I love doing it, but I have no sense of the "norm" in this regard.

Norm or not, this is close to what I did when I read online for clients. I wrote a usually short paragraph about each card individually followed by a summary and any advice or comment I felt the client needed or might want to know. I never counted how many words I wrote to each one (I know it was never "eight" pages!), though. I also included a picture of the actual spread. The process did take me some time, but I don't remember exactly how long. I also did not account for the extra time after the online reading where the client would email me if they had any additional questions and I would email them back --sometimes it took a few emails --depended upon the reading, the client, etc. 

 

I never enjoyed reading online. 

[Barleywine]

3 hours ago, 53rdspirit said:

Norm or not, this is close to what I did when I read online for clients. I wrote a usually short paragraph about each card individually followed by a summary and any advice or comment I felt the client needed or might want to know. I never counted how many words I wrote to each one (I know it was never "eight" pages!), though. I also included a picture of the actual spread. The process did take me some time, but I don't remember exactly how long. I also did not account for the extra time after the online reading where the client would email me if they had any additional questions and I would email them back --sometimes it took a few emails --depended upon the reading, the client, etc. 

 

I never enjoyed reading online. 

When I first started online last year, I was aiming at no more than six pages for a CC, and that included the photo. But with the luxury of time I tend to stretch out. I offer one post-reading email exchange at no extra cost to answer questions, and most people have stuck to that.

[Lady Butterfly]

I've only done one CC reading for a friend that I had to type up and email, since he lives far from me. It came to about 6 pages with the photo... and I didn't include any 'introductory' passages since he has had readings before and is familiar with the spread. So your 8 pages seems about like what I would come to as well if I were to read for a stranger.

 

That said, your wife is likely right... your time is worth something, and a more condensed written reading is possibly required, since you are likely not charging enough to account for the hours spent on the writing. This is a trap people who craft things at home to sell also fall into, we know our time is worth something, but feel it wouldn't be fair to charge at that rate but also don't want to compromise the quality of our product.

 

If I was reading online for money, I would need to find some sort of middle ground on how detailed and full the written report is.

[Barleywine]

On 3/9/2020 at 1:40 AM, Lady Butterfly said:

I've only done one CC reading for a friend that I had to type up and email, since he lives far from me. It came to about 6 pages with the photo... and I didn't include any 'introductory' passages since he has had readings before and is familiar with the spread. So your 8 pages seems about like what I would come to as well if I were to read for a stranger.

 

That said, your wife is likely right... your time is worth something, and a more condensed written reading is possibly required, since you are likely not charging enough to account for the hours spent on the writing. This is a trap people who craft things at home to sell also fall into, we know our time is worth something, but feel it wouldn't be fair to charge at that rate but also don't want to compromise the quality of our product.

 

If I was reading online for money, I would need to find some sort of middle ground on how detailed and full the written report is.

I suspect you're right. What's been happening as I do more of them is that the same cards will come up for different clients, and the basic "interpretive framework" for them can be imported and tweaked as necessary to fit the question. This can create efficiencies that reduce the time and effort without greatly impacting the level of detail. One of the main issues I encounter is that any card can cover a range of meanings, from practical to psychological to more universal, and lacking a face-to-face dialogue to peg them to the right level, I have to explore all of the possibilities to some extent. Court cards are notorious for this.

[Rodney]

I type up my readings in Excel because it allows me to replicate the layout of the cards through drawing boxes around groups of cells. I number the cards and include abbreviations of the cards that land in each position. For each card, I describe what I see in the card in one section and then I relate what I've seen with the positional meaning to provide my interpretations. Then there's a Notes section at the end that sometimes gets used and sometimes doesn't where I do an overview of the spread, noting dominant suits, elements, numbers and anything else that pops out about the whole spread. I save the readings in the format Date-Person-Deck. Those are purely for me though. When I was posting readings at Aeclectic (my own for feedback, exchanges, etc.) I would copy/paste the text over and have to do some minor reformatting. If I were reading professionally, I'd probably still do up the reading in Excel since I'm familiar with that. I'd insert a picture of the actual cards over the spread form, PDF the file and send it off.

 

I created templates for the basic shapes (squares, crosses, diamonds, triangles, lines, etc.) so I don't have to recreate the wheel with each reading. If I need to modify one of the templated shapes, it's easy enough to do.

[katrinka]

I stopped doing email readings a long time ago.

All that writing and formatting and whatnot takes forever. Your wife makes a good point, Barley. 
I used to do it. I used to sell PDF readings on etsy. And I didn't copypaste ANYTHING, it was all real. But the thing is, you can do a whole Lenormand GT and only have a couple of pages of text. And it's essentially a one-way conversation. With a phone reading or a face-to-face, your client can interject with more questions and anecdotes. You get this wonderful back-and-forth and they're happy. You are, too, because you feel like you did well.

 

But with email. you're in a vaccuum, trying to pad it out to just...one...more...page. And if there's anything I loathe, it's filler.

Another reader I respected told me that didn't matter, that they were paying for information, not a dissertation. But I always felt like I was ripping people off a little, even though it sometimes took all day - or several days - to put the damn PDF together. It was all work and guilt and horror.I'd rather slide down a mountain of broken glass on my belly. 

I just flat out refuse to do any more. 

Other than that, I used to journal. I have some of those journals still, stashed in a plastic tote and buried in the spare room someplace. It was useful when I was doing it - you really see where you hit and where you went off the rails and why - but I don't feel the need to do that anymore. So any reading I write down will be here, or on my blog.

[Barleywine]

12 hours ago, Rodney said:

I type up my readings in Excel because it allows me to replicate the layout of the cards through drawing boxes around groups of cells. I number the cards and include abbreviations of the cards that land in each position. For each card, I describe what I see in the card in one section and then I relate what I've seen with the positional meaning to provide my interpretations. Then there's a Notes section at the end that sometimes gets used and sometimes doesn't where I do an overview of the spread, noting dominant suits, elements, numbers and anything else that pops out about the whole spread. I save the readings in the format Date-Person-Deck. Those are purely for me though. When I was posting readings at Aeclectic (my own for feedback, exchanges, etc.) I would copy/paste the text over and have to do some minor reformatting. If I were reading professionally, I'd probably still do up the reading in Excel since I'm familiar with that. I'd insert a picture of the actual cards over the spread form, PDF the file and send it off.

 

I created templates for the basic shapes (squares, crosses, diamonds, triangles, lines, etc.) so I don't have to recreate the wheel with each reading. If I need to modify one of the templated shapes, it's easy enough to do.

That's an interesting way to "automate" things and introduce some repeatable structure for building your client reports. Although I used to be an engineer, when I write I tend to think more in literary terms rather than portable "text bites."  But I like this as a way to store ideas in a retrievable fashion.

[Barleywine]

7 hours ago, katrinka said:

I stopped doing email readings a long time ago.

All that writing and formatting and whatnot takes forever. Your wife makes a good point, Barley. 
I used to do it. I used to sell PDF readings on etsy. And I didn't copypaste ANYTHING, it was all real. But the thing is, you can do a whole Lenormand GT and only have a couple of pages of text. And it's essentially a one-way conversation. With a phone reading or a face-to-face, your client can interject with more questions and anecdotes. You get this wonderful back-and-forth and they're happy. You are, too, because you feel like you did well.

 

But with email. you're in a vaccuum, trying to pad it out to just...one...more...page. And if there's anything I loathe, it's filler.

Another reader I respected told me that didn't matter, that they were paying for information, not a dissertation. But I always felt like I was ripping people off a little, even though it sometimes took all day - or several days - to put the damn PDF together. It was all work and guilt and horror.I'd rather slide down a mountain of broken glass on my belly. 

I just flat out refuse to do any more. 

Other than that, I used to journal. I have some of those journals still, stashed in a plastic tote and buried in the spare room someplace. It was useful when I was doing it - you really see where you hit and where you went off the rails and why - but I don't feel the need to do that anymore. So any reading I write down will be here, or on my blog.

Interesting! I stopped journaling a long time ago because I no longer saw any value in it. But I love to write about divination (almost maniacally so, as my blog demonstrates) and doing online readings provides another opportunity to exercise that. If and when I have dozens of clients waiting in the queue, I will have to rethink this approach, but I don't think I will ever let it get too slap-dash. After all, this is a pastime for me, not a career. I never felt any need to pad my output, I write conversationally and pretty much duplicate what I would say in a face-to-face reading, then I invite client interaction (on a limited basis) after they get the write-up to emulate a "live" reading session.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Barleywine

[Guest]

As @katrinkasays, it sounds as if your wife has a point @Barleywine. Does your price list reflect the time spent? Clients are paying for time AND service.
 

I first worked on psychic telephone lines. It’s good training on conciseness. 

 

I still perform e-mail consultations. Around eight years ago I ceased listing these by spread and instead utilised size. I noted how long one took - from spreading the cards, photographing them and writing up the PDF.
 

Eventually, I realised that the time was comparable to my telephone consultations (30 min = £60). Using that I determined three prices between £30 and £100. GTs are more. 

 

I do not include information on cards or spreads. Does that information serve anyone? I’ve got tutorials on my site for my most common draws (tirage en ligne, the wyrd sisters, 3x3).

 

I rarely go over 1,500 words. Tableaus are around 2,000. I have the synthesis (around 100 - 300 words) them Full delineation (500 - to 1000 words). 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Guest

[DanielJUK]

I hand write (or type really) all my readings from scratch but I'm not professional. I would ask for the time taken on them for my prices if I did. Typing the readings is part of my reading method, it's an intuitive process and it becomes almost like automatic, I just write what flows. I can't really offer any advice because my readings are also long and time consuming to do but I think it's my style and sitters tell me they appreciate the detail 🙂 I hope to find a way to condense them a bit 🙂 

[Barleywine]

1,500 words of original text is something of a goal for me. I took my shortest write-up and stripped out all the standard, unchanging introductory paragraphs and the "connecting" snippets between sections and it came down to 2,300 words of original material for a 10-card reading: overview, detail and closing summary. So I think I can get there. Most of the people I read for online are readers themselves who want my particular take, so I like to fill them in on some of the "process" specifics, which adds a little volume. My price structure is still on the lean side, although I just increased it a bit. If I start getting more traffic I'll probably bump it some more.

[Little Fang]

I used to favor written readings, until I realized how easily my intuition flows on video.  Now I record videos, where the client can see me draw and talk as the intuition hits me.  Writing takes a LONG time, and I should probably charge more for them, but then again, editing and uploading the videos also take a similar chunk of time so it all works out in the end.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Barleywine said:

1,500 words of original text is something of a goal for me. I took my shortest write-up and stripped out all the standard, unchanging introductory paragraphs and the "connecting" snippets between sections and it came down to 2,300 words of original material for a 10-card reading: overview, detail and closing summary. So I think I can get there. Most of the people I read for online are readers themselves who want my particular take, so I like to fill them in on some of the "process" specifics, which adds a little volume. My price structure is still on the lean side, although I just increased it a bit. If I start getting more traffic I'll probably bump it some more.

If you’re reading for professionals — or even just a client — who want that option then that’s different. You can make it optional. For horary consultations, I ask if they desire the process of judgement.

 

Whatever you do it should be reflected in your fees, Barleywine. You’re an experienced reader who has put much time and resources in developing your skill. As readers we should value our time and skill as much as we do our clients. 

[Wanderer]

Aside from friends, I only really do readings on here, and then the larger ones tend to take several hours. Like @DanielJUK, the writing process is part of the reading, and can't really be disconnected from it; a lot more comes out during that process. I'm not professional, but have idly wondered about the rates that ought to be charged for several hours of my time... and then I see full readings available online for $5-10 and sidle quietly away with a puzzled look on my face... 

[Barleywine]

52 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

Aside from friends, I only really do readings on here, and then the larger ones tend to take several hours. Like @DanielJUK, the writing process is part of the reading, and can't really be disconnected from it; a lot more comes out during that process. I'm not professional, but have idly wondered about the rates that ought to be charged for several hours of my time... and then I see full readings available online for $5-10 and sidle quietly away with a puzzled look on my face... 

I've been puzzled for the same reason: what do you get for $5-10? No way do I intend to try competing at that level; it's sounds like someone is reselling computer-generated readings.

[katrinka]

5 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

 

I rarely go over 1,500 words. Tableaus are around 2,000. I have the synthesis (around 100 - 300 words) them Full delineation (500 - to 1000 words). 

Now I don't feel so bad, mine weren't much under that. I still won't be doing them again, though. 

 

2 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

Whatever you do it should be reflected in your fees, Barleywine. You’re an experienced reader who has put much time and resources in developing your skill. As readers we should value our time and skill as much as we do our clients. 

This. Don't be WalMart - it's not good for you or anyone else.

1 hour ago, Barleywine said:

I've been puzzled for the same reason: what do you get for $5-10? No way do I intend to try competing at that level; it's sounds like someone is reselling computer-generated readings.

It has to be either that, or once sentence replies" "Yes, he's cheating." 🙄

[Wanderer]

2 hours ago, Barleywine said:

I've been puzzled for the same reason: what do you get for $5-10? No way do I intend to try competing at that level; it's sounds like someone is reselling computer-generated readings.

I've kind-of assumed that it's partly people leaping into a new opportunity, assuming they'll be inundated with requests, and just not putting very much effort into it... but there are soooo many of them! Etsy scared me when I had a quick look. I'd actually feel slightly better if they were just a sort of computer-generated semi-scam, rather than imagining gifted readers toiling away all day for the price of a cup of tea... 

 

47 minutes ago, katrinka said:

It has to be either that, or once sentence replies" "Yes, he's cheating." 🙄

Yeah, that's possible, but then a lot of them seem to have good reviews (of course, none of those would be faked; I'm sure that just doesn't happen...)  

 

Either way, it's good to know you folks feel the same way!

[katrinka]

9 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

I'd actually feel slightly better if they were just a sort of computer-generated semi-scam, rather than imagining gifted readers toiling away all day for the price of a cup of tea... 

I have never, in my entire life, seen ANY competent reader set their prices that low.

[Wanderer]

2 minutes ago, katrinka said:

I have never, in my entire life, seen ANY competent reader set their prices that low.

Fair enough! I've never asked for a reading from any of them (although have been tempted out of sheer curiosity! ), so can't advise on that one. It would indeed seem to be just wrong, though, now I know how respected readers approach this...

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, katrinka said:

I have never, in my entire life, seen ANY competent reader set their prices that low.

Over time I have been told that my prices are too high. However, on each occasion the aggrieved party was another reader. Clients have never told me that the prices are too high. 
 

There seems to be a continued belief that we have to keep our prices low to avoid allegations of being scammers. That and the old chestnut of not profiting. 
 

Whenever I see such low prices I just hope that the reader has another income. Other wise they’ll be burning the cards for heating. Even my grandmother set a minimum number of eggs or tobacco weight.