Bonestone and Earthflesh Tarot

[gregory]

I don't want to derail the thread; I'll PM you.

 

But yes - it has been all logistics since 2018. Covid-19 cannot be blamed past - well, to be generous - January this year.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, gregory said:

I don't want to derail the thread; I'll PM you.

 

But yes - it has been all logistics since 2018. Covid-19 cannot be blamed past - well, to be generous - January this year.

Thank you so much! 

 

Edit: Actually i think February was Chinese New Year or something... then everything came back to work. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Guest

[Allybug]

8 hours ago, Guest said:

Thank you, @Raggydoll for the welcome, and remind us the rules. From my side, i will do my best. Nice to meet you! This forum is great! 

 

Life happens. Sometimes it is chaos, sometimes in order, and it is OK, if you want to take rest, recovery, exhale. But not when there is 50 000 (correct me if iam wrong) people, waiting on you, and been enough patient, compassionate, patient, and emphatic with every your struggle. I remember she was mentioning her uncle died like 2 years ago (?). Fine, take week, two, to recover. Bushfires, this cannot be controlled, so, it is understandable, but this doesn't take an year. 

When my father died, i still went to work, working on projects. Of course i took time (a week) to grieve, funeral arrangements, but i returned to work and business  immediately. This was not my clients and customers battle, it is mine. This is part of being professional. 

COVID-19 was an excuse, but now most of the logistic  are back to work. In fact, another tarot creators wait their Decks from China and ship them to us very soon. 

 

I feel for Avalon, but she let her life struggles and drama to slow down the progress. As far as iam aware, Anna finished the Artwork in 2018. Since then, the logistic was always a problem.

There is a Tarot Deck called "The Black tarot"... the Creator done perfect job- The Hierophant card was misspelled so he gave option, if someone want to wait for the correction, or he could ship the decks with the error for those who don't want to wait. But it took 2 months at most, to correct the mistake.  

 

Can you tell me which tarot is this? I think the energy, the strength, the recovery journey of this person will make this deck incredibly powerful. 

 

 

 

I can totally understand everyone's frustration with this situation. I am just going to post my two cents to explain my own patience. I don't expect anyone else to take it on, but it might help for context, for those who are interested.

 

My cousin had a similar situation to Avalon in which a relative had a heart attack and died in her home. She and her husband did CPR until the ambulance arrived - but they are pretty remote, so it was over 30 minutes. She went to the funeral, grieved with her family, and then went back to work.  

 

And then, BOOM - about 8 months later, she starting having all kind of problems, stemming from massive PTSD. I didn't have much experience with PTSD before, and it didn't occur to me that it could be delayed like that, seemingly coming out of "nowhere" (of course, it wasn't coming out of "nowhere" but we had all kind of breathed a sigh of relief months earlier, because it had seemed like she was really holding up pretty well after the funeral.) Luckily, when everything went sideways with her mental health, she had family around her and her husband to lean on. But she is still not back to work full time, and she is still struggling with what happened. I don't know how she would cope as a single parent.

 

I don't know Avalon personally, and I don't know if this is what is happening. I've just seen a similar situation and the fallout that it can create even within the security of a strong marriage. With this context in mind, I have asked myself - do I trust that eventually I will get this deck? Or do I think that she has effectively just stolen my money and will never make good? In the end, I don't think she has stolen my money. I do believe that I will get the deck. And that has brought me enough patience and peace of mind to just wait until it gets here. If it doesn't for you, I totally get that. If it does, I'm glad. 

[Raggydoll]

1 minute ago, Allybug said:

I can totally understand everyone's frustration with this situation. I am just going to post my two cents to explain my own patience. I don't expect anyone else to take it on, but it might help for context, for those who are interested.

 

My cousin had a similar situation to Avalon in which a relative had a heart attack and died in her home. She and her husband did CPR until the ambulance arrived - but they are pretty remote, so it was over 30 minutes. She went to the funeral, grieved with her family, and then went back to work.  

 

And then, BOOM - about 8 months later, she starting having all kind of problems, stemming from massive PTSD. I didn't have much experience with PTSD before, and it didn't occur to me that it could be delayed like that, seemingly coming out of "nowhere" (of course, it wasn't coming out of "nowhere" but we had all kind of breathed a sigh of relief months earlier, because it had seemed like she was really holding up pretty well after the funeral.) Luckily, when everything went sideways with her mental health, she had family around her and her husband to lean on. But she is still not back to work full time, and she is still struggling with what happened. I don't know how she would cope as a single parent.

 

I don't know Avalon personally, and I don't know if this is what is happening. I've just seen a similar situation and the fallout that it can create even within the security of a strong marriage. With this context in mind, I have asked myself - do I trust that eventually I will get this deck? Or do I think that she has effectively just stolen my money and will never make good? In the end, I don't think she has stolen my money. I do believe that I will get the deck. And that has brought me enough patience and peace of mind to just wait until it gets here. If it doesn't for you, I totally get that. If it does, I'm glad. 

I totally understand what you are saying. My father died very suddenly of a heart attack too, and I started experiencing ptsd well over a year after it had happened. I had just had my first child when my dad died and I had no time to process and no time (or energy) for counseling. But when I did develop symptoms I was able to receive treatment and I am forever grateful for that. Avalon has definitely been through a lot and I do hope she has been able to get therapy or other support to cope with things. 

[Penthasilia]

Just popping in to make sure everyone knows about the new shipping announcement as it was listed on FB and likely won't see the newsletter until a bit later. From what I understand, the new printer will ship direct, but she is only going to do one mass shipment, which means she is looking to sell 400 decks on Etsy to fulfill the 1000 mark. She is sending an initial list of buyers to get a quote on shipping for the various countries, and as soon as she receives timing from them on print will send a newsletter and FB post out for those waiting to know date/time of purchase.

 

What is unclear to me in this all is how she will get a proper quote for shipping when almost half the decks' addresses are not accounted for until the Etsy sale. Also unclear how long she will give for the sale (apparently based on info from the printer) and what the actual ship date will be. Also a bit concerned as she had to double check the list the last time and it took a while- so not sure if that was a consequence of the amount of time from original purpose or will be replayed again this go round. Being realistic, I have seen posts in the pasts about shipping being right around the corner without coming to fruition, so while I hope to still see the deck at some point, it is still early for me to be completely optimistic.

 

I do not post much these days due to my schedule, and I haven't on the FB page at all, but I would have to say this process has been such a sad journey.

[gregory]

 So now we have to wait until she has sold another 400 decks - when she had "very few left" to sell before. And given everything else that has gone wrong thus far, I just hope the dispatcher is better than the one who messed up everyone by being incapable of opening an excel file to get the addresses out properly - so anyone with more than 10 characters to a line was totally garbled..... I was one of them; we weren't notified; it was when everyone else's were arriving and mine didn't that I complained and was told by the seller - oh, well, they couldn't mail the ones whose addresses they couldn't read... If I hadn't complained I guess mine would have been thrown away.

 

She has had my money (and that of MANY others) since November 2017. It included £22 for shipping. I can't think of anywhere in the world that would charge more than that, and China is usually less. This is neither reassuring nor acceptable. I remain pessimistic, I'm afraid. Not least because I don't know anyone who was at the start wishing they had ordered one before she said they were sold out (and where did this 400 decks needing to be sold come from ?) who would want to risk it now.

[Raggydoll]

3 minutes ago, gregory said:

 So now we have to wait until she has sold another 400 decks - when she had "very few left" to sell before. And given everything else that has gone wrong thus far, I just hope the dispatcher is better than the one who messed up everyone by being incapable of opening an excel file to get the addresses out properly - so anyone with more than 10 characters to a line was totally garbled..... I was one of them; we weren't notified; it was when everyone else's were arriving and mine didn't that I complained and was told by the seller - oh, well, they couldn't mail the ones whose addresses they couldn't read... If I hadn't complained I guess mine would have been thrown away.

 

She has had my money (and that of MANY others) since November 2017. It included £22 for shipping. I can't think of anywhere in the world that would charge more than that, and China is usually less. This is neither reassuring nor acceptable. I remain pessimistic, I'm afraid. Not least because I don't know anyone who was at the start wishing they had ordered one before she said they were sold out (and where did this 400 decks needing to be sold come from ?) who would want to risk it now.

The 400 decks are the cancelled orders that she has already returned the money for. When she reimbursed those customers, the money came from the deck fund. So the deck fund is missing the equivalent of 400-ish decks. Once those are sold she says she will have the money to pay the full amount to the printer. If I understood everything correctly.

 

Some of the things that was mentioned in the video:

Her printer will print and ship for her.

The current list of addresses is being sent to them.

Those 400 decks will go on sale on Etsy.

The sale of those decks will be advertised on all her platforms.

The sale of those decks will have to happen in order for her to be able to cover the full sum to the printers

200 of the 1000 decks will be reserved for defective or damaged decks. (I think she said that Ana is getting 10 decks too)

She is still planning on printing in June

 

[Raggydoll]

I think its important to note that it was 400 decks out of 1000 that were cancelled, so that's a whopping 40% of the funds that were reimbursed. And I am pretty sure that the printer has a different quote once you reach a 1000 decks to print, and that is why she needs that full sum to get the cost per deck to decrease. If that makes sense? Having morning coffee as we speak so my brain is only half functioning. And - Good morning everyone! Or good day/good evening depending on where you live ❤️ 

[gregory]

You will perhaps excuse my cynicism. If she'd run with somewhere like Printerstudio in the first place she could have had them print and mail each deck as the orders came in - like MANY creators do now. What you say makes sense, yes, I get that - but I do wonder how many she will now manage to sell, given the history. And also given the history (and the actual lie about dates the other day) I have to wonder what else will go wrong.

 

I live in hope. I will say that much.

[cardslinger8]

On 10/20/2017 at 12:05 PM, RavenOfSummer said:

Looks like quite a lot of work is happening by Avalon Cameron and Ana Tourian on this deck! Just sharing some images here that were posted on Facebook.

 

Avalon said a second round of pre-orders is going to be launched via her Etsy store on Nov 1 Australia time. It's pricey with shipping though [emoji15]I think something like $60 before shipping and $90 after, to the US.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

13 hours ago, Penthasilia said:

Just popping in to make sure everyone knows about the new shipping announcement as it was listed on FB and likely won't see the newsletter until a bit later. From what I understand, the new printer will ship direct, but she is only going to do one mass shipment, which means she is looking to sell 400 decks on Etsy to fulfill the 1000 mark. She is sending an initial list of buyers to get a quote on shipping for the various countries, and as soon as she receives timing from them on print will send a newsletter and FB post out for those waiting to know date/time of purchase.

 

What is unclear to me in this all is how she will get a proper quote for shipping when almost half the decks' addresses are not accounted for until the Etsy sale. Also unclear how long she will give for the sale (apparently based on info from the printer) and what the actual ship date will be. Also a bit concerned as she had to double check the list the last time and it took a while- so not sure if that was a consequence of the amount of time from original purpose or will be replayed again this go round. Being realistic, I have seen posts in the pasts about shipping being right around the corner without coming to fruition, so while I hope to still see the deck at some point, it is still early for me to be completely optimistic.

 

I do not post much these days due to my schedule, and I haven't on the FB page at all, but I would have to say this process has been such a sad journey.

Let’s hope we are unboxing this beautiful deck in the coming months!

[Raggydoll]

6 minutes ago, cardslinger8 said:

 

Let’s hope we are unboxing this beautiful deck in the coming months!

Indeed! 

[geoxena]

12 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

The 400 decks are the cancelled orders that she has already returned the money for. When she reimbursed those customers, the money came from the deck fund. So the deck fund is missing the equivalent of 400-ish decks. Once those are sold she says she will have the money to pay the full amount to the printer. If I understood everything correctly.

That would only make sense IF she was charging customers ONLY what it cost her.   

 

I don't know how much she charged for each deck, but from my initial research for myself, and from managing a retail store, I would think that the markup on 600 decks would cover the rest of the 1000. 

 

I've started to look into various options for creating a deck and it seems from what I'm seeing so far, that 1000 decks would be around $10-16 per deck COST, possibly even less.  But let's make it easy and set it at $20/deck.  For 1000 decks, that's $20k. 

 

What did she charge you guys - $50, $60 or so per deck?  Let's say she asked a 2.5% markup above my example of $20/deck cost, which would be $50/deck.  That is generally standard percentage of markup in the retail world (though I admit I don't know about the tarot printing world - yet).  Anyway, using that figure as an example, if she initially made 1000 sales at $50/deck, she received $50k.  Refunding 400 decks would mean she had to refund $20k, leaving her $30k which still covers the cost of printing 1000 decks at $20k.  Even if she set the price at only double the cost, she'd still have enough to get 1000 decks printed.  And I'm sure the printer didn't charge as high a number as $20/per deck, so there's possibly even a higher percentage she received (and hopefully still has) above the cost of 1000 decks.

 

She could just go ahead and order 1000 right now and have 400 of them sent to herself, which she could then sell as stock on hand.  Sure, shipping would be a lot, but it's a business expense she could probably write off.  After that, she'd add on a handling fee to the shipping of each individual deck going forward (which it sounds like she's done with the orders she's already received), to make back a little bit of that shipping charge, and everything she'd take in from the last 400 decks would be profit; it just wouldn't come all at once in advance.  Most retail businesses spend money on merch before they receive payment for it, so it's not far-fetched to do that.  If it were me, that's what I would do in order not to delay it any longer.

 

How could she not figure that out?  The only way it wouldn't work would be if she's already spent a large portion of what she received on something else.

 

Hmmm.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by geoxena

[Raggydoll]

I am updating with some more statements that Avalon has made today/yesterday:

 

(The question was what those 400 decks will cost once they are relisted)

I am working on finding the right price. It is dependant on the shipping estimate that I get from the printer. So I have to wait for that figure to arrive so that I can start looking closely at the price of leftover decks. And yes, I moved to the US dollar because everything from printing to mailing out the deck will take place in US Dollar and it is a much more stable currency than the AUD is right now.

 

And then she also said this:

 I’m going to print and while all of the decks are printing, I will have 400ish to sell on Etsy while the decks are printing. Either way, the printing of all decks will happen first then I will look at selling the left over decks (400ish)

 

So I am a little unsure how that will work. Her previous statement said that she needed the money from the 400 decks to pay the printers. But she might have found another way? If she clarifies this or makes another update I will let you all know. 

[gregory]

It's beginning to sound about as clear as it ever did. As in - not.

[Barbiefly]

I just want to say one thing. The video where Avalon talks to the coven about the date not being Dec. 2018 happened before she went on the Bonestone page and answered a lot of questions including saying yes the deck was supposed to be in Dec 2018.  I am in the coven and when I saw that video I was upset because I know the deck was always supposed to be due in 2018, but then she did the post where she corrected that in the Bonestone group and I felt better. Then the video was posted in the Bonestone group making it look like she made the video after making the post correcting the date. Also, in the full video she goes on to say that bullying is wrong by anyone including her friends and she doesn’t want that. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Barbiefly

[AdAstra09]

27 minutes ago, Barbiefly said:

I just want to say one thing. The video where Avalon talks to the coven about the date being Dec. 2018 happened before she went on the Bonestone page and answered a lot of questions including saying yes the deck was supposed to be in Dec 2018.  I am in the coven and when I saw that video I was upset because I know the deck was always supposed to be due in 2018, but then she did the post where she corrected that in the Bonestone group and I felt better. Then the video was posted in the Bonestone group making it look like she made the video after making the post correcting the date. Also, in the full video she goes on to say that bullying is wrong by anyone including her friends and she doesn’t want that. 

This is only partially correct. First of all, it's really strong language she used when she emphasizes multiple times that the date was in 2019 and we were making it up. Before saying that she should have double checked her facts.

Secondly she didnt just say it once. She made two videos (the second one has been posted in the other group) several days apart saying the date was 2019. So that's twice and she didn't check the dates before going to the coven and riling them up? She outright said we were adult bullying and were making things up. Then came to the group and said she had no idea how things became so volatile when she was calling people heavy hitters and saying she wished she could be a heavy hitter. Please note that she never once in the group intervened when her coven would attack people and curse them out and say that if people asked about the date it meant they didn't care about what else was going on in the world. She passively encouraged them by liking comments that praised her and ignoring when her coven crossed the line. Then she goes back to the coven and riles them up and they want to talk about how they feel betrayed? How about how betrayed the group feels for knowing you have been throwing  rocks and hiding your hands?

Secondly, the video was posted here and in the bonestone group a day before Avalon made her correction. She made her correction in direct response to the video being posted. Before that there were multiple posts where people in the group were posting that the deck was always due in 2019 and attacking anyone who said differently. Avalon did not intervene or respond until after the video was posted.

I genuinely hope that was she posted was true and she is taking a more positive stance and she will be handling things differently. But let's not rewrite history. She should have never been bashing paying customers behind their backs in the first place.

Edited June 11, 2020 by AdAstra09

[AdAstra09]

On a positive note things are moving forward. We are getting regular updates. The deck is gorgeous and it looks like it will be going to the printer this month. Avalon seems to be in better spirits. So I am hoping this deck completion brings joy to everyone involved 

[Barbiefly]

I could have sworn she posted the correction on the Bonestone page before the video was posted. But maybe I’m wrong

[Barbiefly]

7 minutes ago, AdAstra09 said:

On a positive note things are moving forward. We are getting regular updates. The deck is gorgeous and it looks like it will be going to the printer this month. Avalon seems to be in better spirits. So I am hoping this deck completion brings joy to everyone involved 

Yes, I’m excited to get this deck!

[AdAstra09]

2 minutes ago, Barbiefly said:

I could have sworn she posted the correction on the Bonestone page before the video was posted. But maybe I’m wrong

The video was posted here and in the other group before it was posted in the bonestone 

[Barbiefly]

3 minutes ago, AdAstra09 said:

The video was posted here and in the other group before it was posted in the bonestone 

Ok, I see. 

[gregory]

6 hours ago, AdAstra09 said:

On a positive note things are moving forward. We are getting regular updates. The deck is gorgeous and it looks like it will be going to the printer this month. Avalon seems to be in better spirits. So I am hoping this deck completion brings joy to everyone involved 

"We are getting regular updates."

 

Only if we are on fartbook. Where I am not; the only info I am getting is here and from a friend who keeps me updated.

[Raggydoll]

Here’s the latest:

 

 

 

[Raggydoll]

1 minute ago, gregory said:

"We are getting regular updates."

 

Only if we are on fartbook. Where I am not; the only info I am getting is here and from a friend who keeps me updated.

Yes, well I will do my best to share here so that no one misses out on vital things! 

[gregory]

3 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Yes, well I will do my best to share here so that no one misses out on vital things! 

Thank you. I REALLY appreciate it.