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A good beginner's Lenormand deck and book

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katrinka
1 hour ago, leroidetrèfle said:

One of the big conventions with the 9❤️ is that the Cavalier can describe someone as a dapper dresser or uniformed. This seems to have come from the picture (as he is a dandy) and is just common sense.

Yes, there's a lot of old decks that feature top hats and the like. Definitely a man about town.

1 hour ago, leroidetrèfle said:

If I'm using my Gilded Reverie, I don't read the Cavalier as a man. That's because it shows a woman. I use the King of Spades (Lilies) - he is man (king) and from the “other” suit. 

I'm curious about how you handle the female rival issue.
We had a conversation years ago about meanings. The way I learned is that the Bear is the high finance card (Bears are powerful and they store fat for hibernation, they have "extra"), but if I recall correctly, you count that as a Tower meaning. Both ways are regional variations and acceptable. But if someone were to try to incorporate both sets of meanings, it would muddy the reading. (It's a common beginner mistake to try to use everything they find in books and on the net.) There would be two high finance cards. So how do you avoid having two female rival cards? Are there any other tweaks needed to make it work?

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leroidetrèfle

The Bear, for me, is more connected to personal financial management — as you note, bears metabolises fat, which to me is akin to insurances and pension plans (your stores), rather than high finance and salaries. The fat implies possession. 
 

Do you mean female rival with the Gilded Reverie? I keep to the Serpent. Or do you mean in general? The Serpent primarily fulfils that role. If, however, she is the partner card (as in same-sex) I use one the queens - but I determine that in advance. 

 

I know some Germans prefer the Child/Knave of Spades, but I'm not too keen on that as she shares the same suit as the Lady. 
 

 I see all the kings and queens as potential significators.  One of the reasons I keep to the Carta Mundi is the designs are gender-balanced (Cavalier male and Child female), and all the courts are fully shown. 

Edited by leroidetrèfle

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katrinka
2 minutes ago, leroidetrèfle said:

Do you mean female rival with the Gilded Reverie? I keep to the Serpent. Or do you mean in general? The Serpent primarily fulfils that role. If, however, she is the partner card (as in same-sex) I use one the queens - but I determine that in advance.

In the Gilded Reverie.
The (male) Rider can be a paramour. So with a female Rider, do you still retain the "third person" meaning? You already have the Snake for that.
And what about the other meanings: feet, ligaments, and knees, livestock, etc.? Does having a flying wooden horse alter that?
And are there other meanings that come into play to fill the void of the standard ones that are no longer workable?

 

11 minutes ago, leroidetrèfle said:

I know some Germans prefer the Child/Knave of Spades, but I'm not too keen on that as she shares the same suit as the Lady. 


I wouldn't do it either.
I'm seeing a lot of people online freaking out over old 50's and 60's songs about teenage girls. But the target market at that time was mostly teenagers.
Still, I'd anticipate problems using the Child that way for face to face readings. 😬

 

 



 

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leroidetrèfle
12 minutes ago, katrinka said:

In the Gilded Reverie.
The (male) Rider can be a paramour. So with a female Rider, do you still retain the "third person" meaning? You already have the Snake for that.
And what about the other meanings: feet, ligaments, and knees, livestock, etc.? Does having a flying wooden horse alter that?
And are there other meanings that come into play to fill the void of the standard ones that are no longer workable?

 


I wouldn't do it either.
I'm seeing a lot of people online freaking out over old 50's and 60's songs about teenage girls. But the target market at that time was mostly teenagers.
Still, I'd anticipate problems using the Child that way for face to face readings. 😬

 

 



 

No, if I were to use the Gilded Reverie it loses the third-party/chevalier servant function. I cannot see how to reconcile the card and the folklore. It’s the same when I see people using the Lord for a female same-sex partner. I just cannot do it. Essentially, it means I‘m down a significator... but. If I use the Gilded Reverie I tend to stick to readings on finance, career, and so on. 
 

 The anatomical meanings (that I use, anyway) I would not struggle so much with. I can see her legs, &c. 
 

Yes, I have thought about that with the Child, too.

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cirom

Im amazed at the amount of dissection being applied to this deck.... while you are clearly both experts, it seems you are also struggling. Would it help if I told “He” was in drag?😇

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leroidetrèfle
1 minute ago, cirom said:

Im amazed at the amount of dissection being applied to this deck.... while you are clearly both experts, it seems you are also struggling. Would it help if I told “He” was in drag?😇

Lol. We like to dissect. You’ve provided many happy hours of reflection and your Owl and Bear remains my favourite.

 

Now, I forgot to ask you when I e-mailed, when are you going to a playing card deck? Your court cards would be gorgeous.

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katrinka
35 minutes ago, leroidetrèfle said:

No, if I were to use the Gilded Reverie it loses the third-party/chevalier servant function. I cannot see how to reconcile the card and the folklore. It’s the same when I see people using the Lord for a female same-sex partner. I just cannot do it. Essentially, it means I‘m down a significator... but. If I use the Gilded Reverie I tend to stick to readings on finance, career, and so on.

Sticking with finance and career would solve the problem.
Still, you'd have to keep a second deck out for the inevitable sex stuff.

35 minutes ago, leroidetrèfle said:

 The anatomical meanings (that I use, anyway) I would not struggle so much with. I can see her legs, &c. 

That works.

1 minute ago, cirom said:

Im amazed at the amount of dissection being applied to this deck.... while you are clearly both experts, it seems you are also struggling. Would it help if I told “He” was in drag?😇

LOL. I'm pretty sure that's how Malkiel views it.

And yes - a playing card deck!

 

 

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cirom

I’m honored by your dissection, if the deck was complete nonsense it wouldn’t be worth your attention.


To your suggestion, I have toyed in the past with simply producing a decorative deck of playing cards, but to be honest, now with the proliferation of piracy, my heart is no longer in it.

I have given this much thought. If ever i was to conjure up sufficient enthusiasm it would be for a completely off the wall endevour that would also safeguard against piracy. Namely to produce a deck of which there would only be one copy. that I would personally print. Then I would offer to produce a variation on a commission only basis, with each card modified and to some degree containing some feature that would be personal to whoever it was being produced for. Thus maintaining each deck as a “one off”. This would represent a cost that would mean an extremely extremely small number being produced. But it might satisfy my creative itch. This is’nt intended as a promotion Or serious intent,  just rambling out loud.

 

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katrinka
2 hours ago, cirom said:

Then I would offer to produce a variation on a commission only basis, with each card modified and to some degree containing some feature that would be personal to whoever it was being produced for.

And you would know exactly who was pirating/leaking scans to pirates. Mua hahaha.
It does sound cost prohibitive, though, since you'd be redoing so much.

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cirom
2 minutes ago, katrinka said:

And you would know exactly who was pirating/leaking scans to pirates. Mua hahaha.
It does sound cost prohibitive, though, since you'd be redoing so much.

Exactly, but it’s even more Mua hahaha.... what would be the value to the pirates   Who would want reproductions of a deck that would be littered with little personal touches that specifically  referenced the person who commissioned it. For example names, dates. symbols related to someone called Katrina, her life, and things of significance to her.? 
But yes a lot of work.... I must admit it has its appeal though if only for the personal satisfaction in its creation. There would be two interesting dynamics dancing tango, A really high priced deck would obviously only generate very few sales, the higher the price the fewer the sales, but the fewer the sales the more exclusive each would be. Which would increase its caché and perceived worth. As an aside, after going out of print there have been occasions where copies of my special editions have sold for over ten times their original prices. Not sold by me I would add, I had nothing to do with such transactions, simply private individual collectors. But it is an indication of the passion that some collectors have. But even with that it wouldn’t make financial sense for the amount of work involved, but one hell of a ego trip.........

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