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Hi, @Misterei Your question sent me to my book (the one where I've written all the permutations of a card that I can think of.) I see quite a number of ways that the Justice card could be interpreted in terms of beginning a relationship that does not involve legal dealings. In general, Justice means a careful weighing of the matter. There is the suggestion of impartiality and objectivity being a good idea. When upright, the card usually indicates the end decision will be fair. Folks will get what they deserve. (Reversed may indicate unfairness or a lack of objectivity.) I would say, when it comes to budding romance, the Justice card (upright) would suggest carefully weighing what appears to be on offer. Be impartial and objective about the romantic partner's characteristics, and what they say or do. Stepping back a bit to have a think is probably a good idea, before making a decision. Try to avoid prejudice or bias. Don't be taken in by immediate emotional reactions either. The process of thorough investigation may take a bit of time, but don't feel pressured or rushed.

The Justice card usually makes me think of the word "consequences." Like someone getting their comeuppance. Regarding a potential romance, it could indicate a warning to "be careful what you wish for." I might see it as some kind of situation that will bite you in the butt later, perhaps due to overlooking red flags, such as an abusive or criminal element, dishonesty, or perhaps some cheating going on. But it could also mean that a relationship with this person will be lackluster and boring. Either way, the querent might be setting themselves up for something they'll regret later, and whatever that is will depend on the energy surrounding the situation.

Nice topic. As you both mentioned, Justice is not a warm/hot card (unless it's about bdsm with female dominant), but it definitely makes me think of getting into a romantic relationship for other reasons (whether that motivation is known to the other party or not). Wanting financial security or to move to another country, being able to navigate the bureaucracy of adopting more easily, a "shotgun wedding". Many years ago, I knew couples who married because they found a same sex relationship untenable for their career goals, their family, or desire to have children, etc. A terrible situation for them to be put in (and yet they were good friends and are still married today). If instead it's about the passionate side for both parties, it could be a partner who would want a civil ceremony, not a church wedding. Or want a 'prenup'. If it's just a 'will they ask me out' kind of thing, it's not a good sign. Since we make a deck provide cards for the question even if the love-interest being asked about has zero interest in our sitter, it has to say something. So for me a card out of left field for the topic is often a simple no. Especially if there are no romantic cards pulled. --Or if it's surrounded by romantic cards, it could be a separate upcoming issue that will have an impact on the question asked.

They just recently charged me for the shipping, so it is happening 😃

This topic makes me think of Stella Kaoruko, the creator of Stella’s tarot. She’s a very traditional fortune teller and offers love-themed interpretations for all the cards. I thought you might enjoy hearing some of her thoughts on the Justice card. She basically says that it is a fairly bad sign for love; the romantic life becomes sluggish (stable but unexciting, low performance), and a cold attitude might alienate others. There might be a need to make a decision regarding the relationship and it could end negatively. A break up or divorce is possible. For those looking for love, it might be hard to find motivation to go on dates and they might struggle to feel content in a relationship. She also mentions the risk of a miscarriage, but it’s unclear how that fits together with the card, other than it’s generally unlucky. I agree with a lot of what she says. If it’s a new relationship/date stage, I would view this card as a not-great sign. There is judgment and lack of vulnerability and warmth. (Kind of like an awkward speed dating session or a blind date…). It might be a match that looks good on the paper but that is really unexciting in real life. Definitely not a hot date with a happy ending 😁

For me, Justice card most often appears if there are legal matters at hand. In certain combinations--it's a divorce [legal proceeding] or absent actual legal proceedings--it certainly shows the possibility of a breakup. But in some romantic readings it's mysterious to me. Does the person have any legal proceedings going on? No. It is especially perplexing to me in a "romantic interest" reading. There's not a committed relationship to have a breakup. No assets to divide or child/pet custody to sort out. No question about who keeps the apartment and who moves. The imagery of Sword and Scale don't suggest romantic togetherness to me. But beyond that-- ??? How do YOU read Justice card in "romantic interest" readings? [i.e. there is a romantic interest but it hasn't progressed to the relationship stage]. thank you!

Everything is context. Going on a spiritual retreat where you WANT to tear down your ego structures? Tower is positive in that context. Remodeling your house and need to demolish the old floor to repair the rotted joist? Tower is part of the process. Planning a wedding? Tower is probably some kind of disaster. That promotion you really wanted? Tower is a hard NO. Einstein's Theory of Relativity comes to mind. Everything is relative. And yes, it also strikes me as fake to pretend that context plays no role in whether a card is positive, negative, or neutral. Empress is a benefic card--but for an obese person who overeats sweets--it's too much of a good thing. The phrase "toxic positivity" comes to mind. A few times I've had well-meaning friends try to put a more positive spin on malefic cards. As events transpired I could see the cards were accurate but my friends' affection for me gave a softer interpretation . This is just human nature. We want to be nice to our friends. The YouTubers and TicTokkers? Removing cards? Figures. Nothing surprises me with social media. I've heard some readers do it for party readings too. And, yes, it is awkward when you get Tower for someone in a 12-minute bachelorette party reading. But I've managed to navigate malefic cards in party readings. Not everyone has the skill to do this. And if they are unskilled--prolly best they don't read malefic cards. If we were ice skaters--the malefic cards are a higher difficulty level. Benefic cards are a waltz jump. Malefic cards are a triple axel.

Neither of the comments I made were directed at "correcting" your post - by the way (from the above, it appears that you have read it in this way). I was just giving my own succinct penny's worth to the OP 🙃.

Re: Doreen Virtue. Yes. I was at a Tarot moot once and there was a lady there who was petrified of "negative" cards, but she wanted to learn to read. So I recommended a Doreen Virtue deck. And HA! - people actually remove cards from the deck? Good grief. No further comment needed.

Welcome back @Rachelcat!

Damn! I didn't know I needed that!

Yes it did! I didn’t think to do an update on it. I like it so far. The certificate claims it’s #1220 of 2000.

My gosh! I did bags like that on Aclectic but like you say...it was ages ago. I didn't make that one, though, because I didn't put any kind of lining in the ones I made. I got a new sewing machine a few months ago so I'm going to start using that to make some bags with quilting. They'll be a lot quicker and less intensive than the beadwork and buckskin bags I used to make. My own selection of bags needs some sprucing up. They're a little straggly looking after all these years. I love velvet ones but sewing velvet is a tedious job and cotton is much more practical. I have a lot of bags I crocheted out of bedspread thread, too. I stiffened felt and did bead embroidered boxes out of it for some. I can post the new ones to show them as I make them but I don't do made-to-order for sale bags anymore. Now I only do things I want to make for myself or to give as gifts.

Yeah, I don't feel bad at all about scrapping my idea and brainstorming to come up with another. I just know my tendency to procrastinate and I hope that when I finally land on a good idea that I'm happy with, I won't hesitate so much to make it happen.

This reminds me of all those artists with painted over canvas or burnt pictures or the waste-basket with screwed up paper! 😄 On to draft idea version 356 😂

Dolly Parton (RIP) once said, "The way I see it, if you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain". That's the human condition, there are bad times and good, positives and negatives, we have to get through the ups and the downs. About 15 years ago, I went through a bad depression and I turned to a Doreen Virtue Angel Deck to help me. I think she was at the height of her popularity around then and it was useful to me to take a card, each day for a positive message. Like I needed that positive boast. Looking back on it, really I was getting a positive affirmation and you can get cards with them on or just make up your own or a positive intention for the day. They were not good at doing readings or spreads because they were so themed one way. I think positive only decks or readings are useful in a very specific way but you cannot use them for regular or general readings. You need the "bad cards" (I don't even believe personally they are bad cards). Sometimes they give the most important advice you can ever hear. You want to find love? Well maybe they are saying you need to dramatically end something from the past, change your whole mindset, get rid of all that baggage. Things could get worse before they get better (just an example). I've noticed some Youtube and TikTok readers remove the 10 of Swords, Death and The Tower (sometimes also the Devil) from readings. I am not quite sure why but I think when they are pulling random cards for their readership, they don't want to make them feel bad or I dunno, but it's strange. I've written about it before but there is a prominent astrologer who has a blog and has a tarot card for the monthly readings for each sign and excludes the negative cards. They also have an astrological value, it really bugs me. In my own readings, I try to give the message that comes up. It's not always positive and it's not always negative, I try to be honest to what I am seeing. I also believe that all cards can be positive / neutral / negative depending on how they turn up and read in position. So even if you remove those cards, The Sun can burn you, Lovers can be too codependent and relying on someone else. They all have a range. The greatest thing I have learnt in my readings is that the cards are nuanced and I don't think I can get that without the balance of all the cards in the deck.

Welcome to the community @Nyx I'm glad you have found us over here 😀

Welcome (or kind of 'welcome back' since there are several here who were on aeclectic.)

After my mother died (decades ago) I got Tarot of the Origins (now Primordial Tarot) because it featured death as a daily possibility. When things are already bad, I find an overly positive deck or reading depressing in how unrelated it feels. "You'll feel better later," doesn't really hit for me in serious situations. I want a message for now. I'd rather see the 3 of Swords and be reminded that I am not alone That this is the way life works, and there's nothing happening to me that isn't part of what everyone deals with. (Not because I want other people to be sad too, of course. But because that's the way it is, and accepting that reality gives me more peace than incorrectly feeling singled out or treated unfairly.) If I get 9 of Swords, 5 of Cups, Tower, the positive is that things going to s*#t is going to force me to deal with something I definitely don't want to, even if it's on the small scale. Lke being nauseas and needing to throw up, it's better to get it over with and get to the other side. So that's good advice. Even if I only drew one card and it was the 9S, I would read it as 'anxiety will be worse so remember your best strategies to cope with that'. In that way, to me all tarot readings are positive, because they're of use. Of course, that's not the same kind of positive as the tarot reader @Croat mentioned is talking about. EDIT:also forgive me if you've seen this before. 😅 I've posted something similar here several times over the years. It's fundamental to how I see tarot.

Well, of course. Acknowledging that some cards may indicate messy, dangerous, or less than ideal situations or outcomes isn't necessarily catastrophizing. Of course there must be perspective in viewing how all cards in a spread correlate with each other and how the combination of cards relates to the querent's question. And in just about every situation, there are options or choices to make in order to move forward or swerve out of the way of something that could have negative results or repercussions. Sure. I never said that a reading which acknowledges possibly negative things wouldn't also include positive ways to handle or avoid them. I mean, to me, it kinda goes without saying that the reader would also look for a solution, next steps, way out of a mess, etc. and advise accordingly. I would never just tell a querent, "Bad sh!t's gonna happen!" and leave them with a sense of foreboding and fear of some kind of disaster heading their way. But, as someone sitting here with a fractured ankle, I can attest to the fact that life isn't all rainbows and puppy dogs.

I have been browsing some of the pages and was thinking it felt so much like the Aclectic Tarot forum I was a member of back in the day. Penny has dropped. I am so happy to have found my way here! I am a long time deck collector and very amateur reader, but I’m looking to deepen my relationship with tarot and develop my own reading style. I am more of a lurker than a poster - but I want to change that, and look forward to speaking with you all here 💚

@RunningWild did your deck eventually arrive? I hope so. My photo of it seems to be featured on the posts page every other day 😅 The Invision software that cycles through decks must have taken a liking to it.

Hi! Thanks, Firecat! This week will be the next deck in my mid-century esoteric list, Fatima Oracle Cards, Lo Scarabeo, copyright 2004. The booklet says “painted around 1927 by an anonymous Italian illustrator.” I can’t see that it has anything to do with Fatima. I’m loving the super-bright colors, almost pop art! It’s a 32-card Lenormand, substituting Violet for Clover and Sphinx for Book and leaving out Tree, Coffin, Rod, and Paths. So it will be small spreads and less-than-grand tableaus this week. But first an interview! What is your most important characteristic? Cross It’s kind of difficult to deal with. What is your strength? Fish It’s good with money readings. Your weakness? Sphinx Not so good on wisdom readings. What can you teach me? Mountain How to overcome. How can I learn it? Tower By being steadfast and persistent. What will be the outcome of our work together? Knight (rider) I will move on from it. Or not because this really flowed in these short sentences. So we’ll see this week.

Alla @geoxena - bad things happen. Such is life. But in order for a reading to be useful to the querent - one must de-catastrophize alla @Chariot . Self-fulfilling prophesy is all-too-real, and it's always helpful to the querent to give them some positive things to take away with them. @Croat your aforementioned Tarot reader was a Doreen Virtue model? 😁 (Who removed all the "negative" cards from her decks, replacing with other imagery. It was all fluffy Angels and bluebirds... until she had some sort of personal breakdown [my assumption], denounced her practice & decks, and went back to being a stoic Christian. It was quite a drama).

You should see all the folders with different deck ideas that are on my hard drive 😁 I like falling into new rabbit holes and sometimes I circle back to old abandoned projects and make something out of it, other times I don’t. It’s the journey that I like, I don’t particularly care about having an end goal to my creative projects anymore. It’s all fun and play 😀