Negative cards as advice? - 9 of Swords

[dalsegno_]

I've been thinking about this recently and found myself wondering: With cards that are stereotypically connected with distinct negative meanings, how would you read it as advice? I'm especially thinking of the 9 of Swords (the worst card in the deck in my opinion, yeesh 😰) but happy to hear any ideas regarding all cards that are generally considered "negative".

When I say advice, I just mean advice in general, not linked to any particular situations or context (like love, family, work, etc). I find it rather difficult to think of anything from these cards that would serve as "advice", simply because of their overt negative connotations. Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

DS

[Arcadia]

18 hours ago, dalsegno_ said:

I've been thinking about this recently and found myself wondering: With cards that are stereotypically connected with distinct negative meanings, how would you read it as advice? I'm especially thinking of the 9 of Swords (the worst card in the deck in my opinion, yeesh 😰)
 

 

Although the 9 of swords is stereotypically seen as a bad card it's more to do with self negative thinking, anxiety, depression or worrying over nothing, i wouldn't say this card was the worst card in Tarot, and sometimes when its's reversed it can be an hopeful card and the promise of better days ahead. I often see the 9 of swords as showing that it's time to stop worrying about things and to start moving forwards with your current goals for the future,

Edited December 5, 2020 by Arcadia

[gregory]

I'd sometimes see that 9 as "face your fears."

[Decan]

A negative card as advice could be a warning (in such or such area depending on the card pulled). Warnings are precious (okay not comfortable)!

[dalsegno_]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Although the 9 of swords is stereotypically seen as a bad card it's more to do with self negative thinking, anxiety, depression or worrying over nothing, i wouldn't say this card was the worst card in Tarot, and sometimes when its's reversed it can be an hopeful card and the promise of better days ahead. I often see the 9 of swords as showing that it's time to stop worrying about things and to start moving forwards with your current goals for the future,

Haha, I guess it's just from my personal experiences with 9/Swords that I considered it to be the worst. (5 of Cups is up there but this one takes the cake.) I've definitely seen those things you mentioned - anxiety and depression especially - quite a bit; more than I'd like to, but hey those cards are brutally honest.

I do like that idea of moving forward for advice, it's actually quite fitting - certainly not an easy task, but the card shows that too. Maybe it's all about making that start.

[dalsegno_]

28 minutes ago, gregory said:

I'd sometimes see that 9 as "face your fears."

Very reasonable answer, and for certain! I'm reminded of the RWS 9/Swords, where the figure covers their face and attempts to ignore those swords on the wall - perhaps it's better to confront them and be courageous.

[dalsegno_]

1 minute ago, Decan said:

A negative card as advice could be a warning (in such or such area depending on the card pulled). Warnings are precious (okay not comfortable)!

Ooh yeah definitely! I've not thought about that before, lovely approach to this problem. Warnings are certainly very helpful especially when we may have grand plans - a little bit of caution won't hurt. 😄 

[gregory]

12 minutes ago, dalsegno_ said:

Very reasonable answer, and for certain! I'm reminded of the RWS 9/Swords, where the figure covers their face and attempts to ignore those swords on the wall - perhaps it's better to confront them and be courageous.

 

That's the advice a psychiatrist gave to my relative with GAD

[dalsegno_]

7 minutes ago, gregory said:

 

That's the advice a psychiatrist gave to my relative with GAD

From my experiences, I'd say it's very good advice for that! 😊

[TheLoracular]

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Although the 9 of swords is stereotypically seen as a bad card it's more to do with self negative thinking, anxiety, depression or worrying over nothing, i wouldn't say this card was the worst card in Tarot, and sometimes when its's reversed it can be an hopeful card and the promise of better days ahead. I often see the 9 of swords as showing that it's time to stop worrying about things and to start moving forwards with your current goals for the future,

This is really the foundation for me in how to interpret the 9 of Swords but so much depends on the context for the reading, the position the card is in my spread, what other cards are there, and what my empathy/intuition is drawing in from the querent.   

I could do three readings in one day and have three completely different things to day about the Nine of Swords and self negative thinking based on all the rest of it.  

The 9 of Swords is especially useful to me when I'm doing self-readings.  I'm actually glad to see it most of the time for stuff like: 

Me: "Is this something to worry about or is this my anxiety disorder making me paranoid?"
Nine of Swords:  This is your anxiety disorder making you paranoid.   Have some green tea and listen to some music before you type to anyone.   

[LogicalHue]

My go-to no-context answers would be: "stop doing that", "stop focusing on", or "you need deal with this".

[Grandma]

Here is an excerpt from a reading I did here in October 2018.  The deck is the Ghetto Tarot and here is the card:

 

 

The Here and Now – The Nine of Machetes (Swords)

 

This card symbolizes the presence of anxiety, guilt, fear, perhaps more than you consciously realize.  It’s appearance in the Here and Now suggests that this is the perfect opportunity to directly confront these negative feelings.  Transform fear into confidence, guilt into resolution, anxiety into courage.  The Magician [the base card for this reading] gives you that power.  Additionally, Nines are the point in our Journey when we are almost home.  Overcome this challenge and you will realize the full potential of your mental energy.

 

The keywords for this card in this deck are “Unfounded fears and nightmares”.  Look deep within yourself to recognize and name the negative thoughts and feelings that are holding you back, that are impeding harmony and balance.  Once you have thought long and hard about this, take your hands away from your face, rise from your resting place and take those machetes down from the wall.  They no longer need to hover dangerously above your head.  Machetes are dangerous weapons, but they are also powerful tools.  Use them to cut through whatever impediments are holding you back from your goal.

 

[DanielJUK]

a good example of this is when someone does a year or month reading and gets a negative card for the month/ year in a general reading. Getting 9 of Swords or 10 of Swords makes you nervous for an energy of that period but as others have said it's a warning. Like that old proverb says "to be forewarned is forearmed", this reading is helping you prepare or avoid the worst of something ahead! It's good to work with the negative cards, think about what their message could be but try not to just find a positive slant. Sometimes they can be positive but mostly they are dark. With the 9 of Swords, how can you stop the nightmares and anguish before they happen? With the 10 of Swords, it's the end of a cycle and closure, things won't get any worse and now it's time to move on and heal. Both those cards as negative cards are about mindset, I am convinced seeing them in my own readings that they are about the mental perspective you take on an issue and it is possible to change that! 🙂

[Grandma]

Of course, sometimes the so-called bad cards are justifiably so.  Here is one of my entries for the We Are One deck.  (Please forgive me for blowing my own horn.  I cheerfully admit that modesty is not one of my virtues...and honesty, even when embarrassing, is!)

 

Nine of Air

By Grandma

 

I don’t see any card as good, bad, or neutral. Tarot encompasses all experience.  Even the typical RWS Nine of Swords holds promise.  The sitting figure may be in anguish or alternately waking from a nightmare.  A colorful comforter offers warmth.  The swords can be taken down and used as weapons and tools.  

 

This time, however, I went for unambiguous nightmare all the way.  Stormy seas, darkness, knives and snakes – what good could come of this?  The terror on the tiny face is justified.  

According to myth, Medusa, whose face turned those who dared to look at her to stone, was tormented herself.  She was beautiful before she was cursed with snakes for hair and forced to live alone in a cave.  Medusa represents someone who is so utterly abused and has so much pain inside that they lash out, are cruel to others, or create misery for anyone around them.

 

[DanielJUK]

I love your depiction of your card in the deck @Grandma it was a great way of doing the 9 of Swords ❤️

[Arcadia]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:57 PM, TheLoracular said:

The 9 of Swords is especially useful to me when I'm doing self-readings.  I'm actually glad to see it most of the time for stuff like: 

Me: "Is this something to worry about or is this my anxiety disorder making me paranoid?"
Nine of Swords:  This is your anxiety disorder making you paranoid.   Have some green tea and listen to some music before you type to anyone.   

 

Its a very useful card to start facing your fears and to just get on with things, that quilt shown on the bed can bring comfort and remind us that we are quite safe, it suggests that things aren't as bad as they seem. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Arcadia

[Grandma]

Oh thank you @DanielJUK!  Didn't everyone do a fantastic job?

[katrinka]

21 hours ago, dalsegno_ said:

I've been thinking about this recently and found myself wondering: With cards that are stereotypically connected with distinct negative meanings, how would you read it as advice? I'm especially thinking of the 9 of Swords (the worst card in the deck in my opinion, yeesh 😰) but happy to hear any ideas regarding all cards that are generally considered "negative".

When I say advice, I just mean advice in general, not linked to any particular situations or context (like love, family, work, etc).

 

I've never known anyone to ask for advice on no particular issue. People want to know how to get what they want: love, money, health, etc. The questions are more along the lines of "How can I reconcile with my boyfriend?" or "How can I make more money?" 

You can get some context from neighboring cards. 2 of Cups + 9 of Swords could be a warning about a new romantic interest. But warning your sitter that this person will bring misery isn't advising them. It's up to the sitter to decide whether to pursue the relationship or not. You warned them, your job is done.

I firmly believe that "advice in general" from a single card with no context at all is something to be avoided, as it too easily comes from the reader's personal opinions rather than the cards. As @timtoldrum said recently, "As for advice, for me, the reader doesn’t offer advice or even opinions. The moment we do so, we forsake our neutrality."

 

[Decan]

Yes, as an advice we could say that this or that card is saying that a particular situation (or someone) is working against your best interest, so warning!

But if we (or someone else) interpret the card like: this card says you should do this or that, the free will is weakened; but I think there are people who are afraid to use their free will and to decide and choose, they prefer to delegate this to someone else.

Not sure it's something advisable though 🙄

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, Decan said:

Yes, as an advice we could say that this or that card is saying that a particular situation (or someone) is working against your best interest, so warning!

But if we (or someone else) interpret the card like: this card says you should do this or that, the free will is weakened; 

 

I don't think it's that. We couldn't weaken most peoples' free will if we wanted to. If somebody is hell bent on doing something, they're going to do it regardless.
 

2 hours ago, Decan said:

but I think there are people who are afraid to use their free will and to decide and choose, they prefer to delegate this to someone else.

 

There are such people. I was returning from the restroom at my old job and saw one of my coworkers face down on the floor having a grand mal, banging her face in a big puddle of blood. Everybody was just standing there frozen and staring, the so-called manager included. I started barking at them to turn her on her side, call an ambulance, etc. and they started moving. They handled it fine after that. But I was boggled that nobody could move a muscle until they were yelled at. It's terrifying. People who need to be told what to do could end up in cults doing whatever their crazy leader told them to do.

 

2 hours ago, Decan said:

Not sure it's something advisable though 🙄

 

It's definitely not. And it's creepy!

[Decan]

Yes, a leader or a guru. Actually a few years ago someone told me that most of people in western buddhism (I was part of that as you know, even insisted a bit there but finally dropped without regret) are afraid to take an initiative and decide for themselves, some can even be panicked to do so (of course not everyone, I don't generalize), and there are gurus there (at least in Tibetan buddhism).

 

Okay, in any case a fortune teller isn't a guru, and yes, I guess most of people involved in some addictive bad behaviours can't stop because someone else would say it; actually to say "stop" would be common sense in some situations I imagine, but...

 

About "to be panicked about.." (mental distress) we still are with the 9 of Swords, I'm not out of topic 😁

Edited December 5, 2020 by Decan

[katrinka]

15 minutes ago, Decan said:

Yes, a leader or a guru. Actually a few years ago someone told me that most of people in occidental buddhism (I was part of that as you know, even insisted a bit there but finally dropped without regret) are afraid to take an initiative and decide for themselves, some can even be panicked to do so (of course not everyone, I don't generalize),

 

I always had trouble reconciling gurus with the Buddha's statement "Be ye lamps unto yourselves" (which is essentially the same as the Discordian "Think for yourself, schmuck!" 😁) 
 

15 minutes ago, Decan said:

and there are gurus there (at least in Tibetan buddhism).

 

Yes. Hinduism has them, too. 
Virtually every religion has some form of the idea that their leaders/clergy are infallible...and then you get a Jimmy Swaggart, lol. 

 

15 minutes ago, Decan said:

About "to be panicked about.." (mental distress) we still are with the 9 of Swords, I'm not out of topic 😁

 

Don't forget the "advice" part! I would think the implied advice in that card would be "don't do it", or "brace yourself, it's about to get rough", lol.

 
 

[Guest]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:01 AM, dalsegno_ said:

I've been thinking about this recently and found myself wondering: With cards that are stereotypically connected with distinct negative meanings, how would you read it as advice? I'm especially thinking of the 9 of Swords (the worst card in the deck in my opinion, yeesh 😰) but happy to hear any ideas regarding all cards that are generally considered "negative".

When I say advice, I just mean advice in general, not linked to any particular situations or context (like love, family, work, etc). I find it rather difficult to think of anything from these cards that would serve as "advice", simply because of their overt negative connotations. Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

DS

That is the risk of looking at cards both singularly and outside of context. How can one discern meaningful advice if one doesn’t know the topic? We are left groping in the dark.

 

One of the first associations I learned for the card is similar to the Hermit’s traditional negative significations. It warns of naivety that can lead to error or even betrayal. Right now, be on your guard. However, outside of proper context, we are left with vague terms. 

[TheLoracular]

10 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

I've never known anyone to ask for advice on no particular issue. People want to know how to get what they want: love, money, health, etc. The questions are more along the lines of "How can I reconcile with my boyfriend?" or "How can I make more money?" 

You can get some context from neighboring cards. 2 of Cups + 9 of Swords could be a warning about a new romantic interest. But warning your sitter that this person will bring misery isn't advising them. It's up to the sitter to decide whether to pursue the relationship or not. You warned them, your job is done.

I firmly believe that "advice in general" from a single card with no context at all is something to be avoided, as it too easily comes from the reader's personal opinions rather than the cards. As @timtoldrum said recently, "As for advice, for me, the reader doesn’t offer advice or even opinions. The moment we do so, we forsake our neutrality."

I think something finally clicked for me on this topic about advice and opinions.  So I'm going to use this thread to clarify myself on this topic.  This isn't changing things I've said in the past, just clarifying what I meant by what I said.  

IMO, tarot readers should never tell a querent "you need to do this" or "you shouldn't do that" or even  "If I was you, I would.."  and the context of the reading itself is everything.  But saying "Here is one way of looking at that situation" or helping the querent establish what their choices are and all the qualities that make a good therapist also make a good tarot reader. 

However, a tarot reading isn't therapy, even when done by a therapist.  But?  When a querent looks at the cards on the table then looks you the reader in the face and says  "What should I do?" saying back to them  "Maybe you should write down a list of the benefits of doing X compared to the benefits of doing Y"  -is- giving them advice, but it is not telling them what to do and it is still just a suggestion and not a demand.   Advice should always be about empowering the querent to make decisions for themselves, to act for themselves, not directing the course of their actions.  And this is true of both therapists and tarot readers 🙂

 

[dalsegno_]

17 hours ago, TheLoracular said:

But?  When a querent looks at the cards on the table then looks you the reader in the face and says  "What should I do?" saying back to them  "Maybe you should write down a list of the benefits of doing X compared to the benefits of doing Y"  -is- giving them advice, but it is not telling them what to do and it is still just a suggestion and not a demand.   Advice should always be about empowering the querent to make decisions for themselves, to act for themselves, not directing the course of their actions.

TheLoracular, you phrased that better than I ever could. That's what I had in mind when I made this thread! 😃 I often have friends come to me asking for Tarot advice on various situations and I always remind them (many times!) that regardless of what I tell them, whatever they choose to do is up to them - I'm only relaying suggestions that I derive from the cards on my table, but to wholly rely on 78 pieces of pretty paper for the actions we take is simply absurd.