Theorical "how will sex go tonight"

[HOLMES]

I been thinking of how no card means sex, though in some books it is listed.

 

But imagine in the context of the question. You just met a person and planning to do the deed.  So you ask the question..  lets assume client is 100 percent on board for the deed. 

 

I wondered as i sit here in the car what the other cards might mean.. 

 

The tower  for example could represent longevity..

Or perhaps it will not occur though we might think it does. 

 

I described the lady asking the question as queen of diamonds,asking about the king of diamondz.

 

I asked for the best cards for teaching from the guides.

 

Coffin, tree, ring, scythe, fox

 

The ending of health , i would ask if both are healthy.. 

The ring next to tree indicates that effects of tonight will be long term 

While ring, scythe and fox shows broken promises.

Coffin ring , and fox shows dead promises. 

I think she would want to have sex as means to stimulate the relationship.

It could be they are both rebounding.. so she may want romance gentlenezs in the tree and ring.. 

But he wants fast and not to be trusted. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by HOLMES

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

The tower  for example could represent longevity..

Pardon my denseness, @HOLMES, but I didn't get the connection with sex here. Could you explain why you mention the Tower?

 

 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

 

The tower  for example could represent longevity..

Or perhaps it will not occur though we might think it does. 

 

"Isolation", lol. 
 

[HOLMES]

1 hour ago, fabfranco said:

Pardon my denseness, @HOLMES, but I didn't get the connection with sex here. Could you explain why you mention the Tower?

 

 

 

The idea is we doing a five card reading on the subject for either us or a client . Myself i would be reading for a client.

 

So i picked the tower in my mind due to the shrek reference in the first movie

Lets say it is the first card in the spread. 

I left to go shopping so i didnt get to finishing. 

So imagine if you will any 5 of the 36 cards showing up. 

In the context of the question

 

 

[Guest]

Hi Holmes I am confused. What cards have been drawn?  If it’s a line of five, we need to know the cards to read them, no?

[HOLMES]

I edited the line of five into the op. 

And my take.

[DownUnderNZer]

@HOLMES

 

There are sexual cards:

 

Snake (Brazil I think), Whip (French) and Lily (German).

 

Lily can be sexual and virtuous.

 

Lily+Mountain can mean celibacy or no sexual intimacy (German).

 

Whip+Rider - Very sexual and athletic and possibly a well endowed male. Very virile and active (French).

 

So, there are most definitely cards that represent sex and sexuality, but as for reading them in the context of "doing the deed" it comes down to how the cards are interpreted by the reader.

 

For example, about 13-14 years ago I saw Lily and Mountain together in a GT and told my nephew that with his relationship there was no sex. He didn't see that one coming, but was honest about it being the way it was because him and his partner were experiencing some major shifts in their relationship plus his partner worked in TV so was away a lot filming as a reporter. There were other reasons too, but I'm not going into that.

 

Anyhow, there are most definitely cards that can touch on the subject for sure.

 

Im not sure if I would see Tower as one of them though as that card is all about morals and egos - standards.

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[DownUnderNZer]

@HOLMES

 

*I asked for the best cards for teaching from the guides.

 

Coffin, tree, ring, scythe, fox"

 

Teaching what exactly?

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I been thinking of how no card means sex, though in some books it is listed.

No card itself means sex on an essential level. If you look, no one is shown in the deed. Just because something is in a book does not make it true. 
 

Neither Marco, Silvestre nor Delclos state that the Birch Rod signifies sex (or exercise). All Marco states is that the Birch Rod is the phallus. If the Birch Rod is near a person-card, Marco states that it signifies extreme fatigue and feeling broken. She makes no reference to attraction, virility or anything else.

 

When referring to so-called French School, Marco is what people are referring to. Marco herself was not French. She was a Tunisian-born Italian. Her parents moved from Tunisia to France and then Belgium.
 

German sources do reference the Lilies and sex. But it is in the context of virtue and satisfaction. 

In a question about sex then all 36 cards are sex: the Park would be outdoors/group sex, the Moon voyeurism, the Boat mile high or public transport. 
 
Can I ask why the king and queen of diamonds was chosen over the Gentleman and Lady?  
 

I still do not understand where the High Tower fits in. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Guest

[DownUnderNZer]

 

Just adding: 

 

With Lily it depends where it is positioned as to whether it is virtuous or non virtuous sexually. Like is it below, above or next to...

 

DND 🌞

 

[DownUnderNZer]

 

6 minutes ago, DownUnderNZer said:

 

Just adding: 

 

With Lily it depends where it is positioned as to whether it is virtuous or non virtuous sexually. Like is it below, above or next to...

 

DND 🌞

 

 

 

Posted and I didn't even know it.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by DownUnderNZer

[DownUnderNZer]

 

To clarify: Above a person it would be virtuous and below it would be not so virtuous. This would be when it comes to GTs.

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[HOLMES]

1 hour ago, DownUnderNZer said:

@HOLMES

 

*I asked for the best cards for teaching from the guides.

 

Coffin, tree, ring, scythe, fox"

 

Teaching what exactly?

 

 

DND 🌞

 

 The best discussion for the situation put forth . 

Example for me i was surprised the first card was coffin

[HOLMES]

1 hour ago, timtoldrum said:

No card itself means sex on an essential level. If you look, no one is shown in the deed. Just because something is in a book does not make it true. 
 

Neither Marco, Silvestre nor Delclos state that the Birch Rod signifies sex (or exercise). All Marco states is that the Birch Rod is the phallus. If the Birch Rod is near a person-card, Marco states that it signifies extreme fatigue and feeling broken. She makes no reference to attraction, virility or anything else.

 

When referring to so-called French School, Marco is what people are referring to. Marco herself was not French. She was a Tunisian-born Italian. Her parents moved from Tunisia to France and then Belgium.
 

German sources do reference the Lilies and sex. But it is in the context of virtue and satisfaction. 

In a question about sex then all 36 cards are sex: the Park would be outdoors/group sex, the Moon voyeurism, the Boat mile high or public transport. 
 
Can I ask why the king and queen of diamonds was chosen over the Gentleman and Lady?  
 

I still do not understand where the High Tower fits in. 

 

The high tower was the first thing that popped into mind as i am studying spades, so it 6 of spades. 

I also thought of the phallus where it came to tower.

Before doing the line when i got home

I figured if the tower showed up, it showed up.

 

I only picked face down out of the 4 queebs and 4 kings to sort of give a physical description to situation.

I figure gentleman and lady don't really have a physical description.

 

But yes you pointed out the main point i hoped was true

All 36 cards on a reading about sex point to different aspects of it. 

 

The three authors you mention i haven't seen them in english yet, 

So over here it is like we are reading eden grey introduction to the tarot if you get my meaning.

But as you say , just because it is on the internet doesn't make it true. 

Just over in english we got 2 books seemingly backinng each other up

 

Do you see any value looking up fictional lines (for made up people situations ) for learning purposes or is there an energy/truth missing 

I mean over here i turned the cards over from the cut and didn't pick them .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DownUnderNZer]

1 hour ago, HOLMES said:

 The best discussion for the situation put forth . 

Example for me i was surprised the first card was coffin

 

Look at Coffin perhaps as transitional as well as evolving to a different level of understanding.

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

The high tower was the first thing that popped into mind as i am studying spades, so it 6 of spades. 

I also thought of the phallus where it came to tower.

Before doing the line when i got home

I figured if the tower showed up, it showed up.

I understand. I thought it had appeared in the line, but could not see it.  With regards to it being phallic I would echo @katrinkasaid in the earlier discussion on the Birch Rod and Lilies.  
 

12 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I only picked face down out of the 4 queebs and 4 kings to sort of give a physical description to situation.

I figure gentleman and lady don't really have a physical description.

But they are the primary significators.  Any card they pair with describes them. 
 

12 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

The three authors you mention i haven't seen them in english yet, 

So over here it is like we are reading eden grey introduction to the tarot if you get my meaning.

But as you say , just because it is on the internet doesn't make it true. 

Just over in english we got 2 books seemingly backinng each other up

No French author has ever been translated into English. Erna Droesbeke’s 1987 book (Dutch) was translated into French (1988) and then English and German (1989).  Regula’s German book was translated into English.

Rana George and Sylvie Steinbach’s books are derivative of Mary Marco. However, Marco does not read the Birch Rod as sex, virility or exercise. She just states that it is phallic.  The French title of the card la verge does mean the male member. But the card refers to the birch rod not a penis.
 

Do some French readers read it as sex?  Yes.  Some.  But not all.  I also know Germans who see it as hard sex.  Most of the meanings I use match Colette Silvestre, a leading French author.  Neither Silvestre, Delclos, or Ripert read it as sex. But they are all French.  What does that tell you?  

 

Most people who talk about French or German have never read the literature. So, much misinformation and over generalisation is spread. For example, one person claims that the 8 x 4 + 4 is French school. But the original instructions were German! Some people like the idea of schools because it is something to hide behind. But if you think about it rationally, it is absurd and easily disproved. Do all Canadians or Americans read alike? 
 

If you review the discussion between @katrinka and I, you will see how we discussed the Birch Rod and the Lilies in terms of sexual relationship, including the above and below which does not solely refer to sexuality.  

 

28 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Do you see any value looking up fictional lines (for made up people situations ) for learning purposes or is there an energy/truth missing 

I mean over here i turned the cards over from the cut and didn't pick them .

I prefer real readings. 

[DownUnderNZer]

 

Russia Lenormand

 

Just found an old AT write up that has a bit of its own spin as well.

 

Ronia was a traditional reader I think so am not sure if you recall her or not.

 

I remember her, but wasnt into the Lenormand section there as it was far too toxic and I was there to learn Tarot.

 

Anyways, with what she was taught she saw Lily as virtue, but together with Fox:  cheating. However, next to another card like, maybe Sun, it might have been a good family relationship.

 

No card is looked at as a sexual card from looking at what she wrote yet Lily and Fox she considered cheating.

 

Interesting really. 

 

Snake is sin and seduction more or less, but she has some very positive points about the Snake as well.

 

Fast forward...

 

I'm now wondering if that is why cards like Snake, Whip and Lily have become the cards to represent sexual cards so that it isn't confusing and to make it more clear because would anyone really go with something like Lily+Fox being cheating if they had nothing to go off of or didn't know that that is what they could mean together?

 

Very doubtful.

 

I'm glad Snake, Whip and Lily (could be others) have evolved in a way that simplifies it for everyone because we aren't in the 1700s/1800s anymore and not everyone has access to books that aren't translated. Even if they were - would the translations be accurate.

 

As I see it Ship is no longer just a Ship anymore - the same goes for Whip, Lily and Snake. Somewhat modified or extended to fit in with the times and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

They work perfectly!

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[Guest]

Ronia is Bulgarian. The translations themselves were also not from an original Russian source.  Generally, the late Naina Vladimirova is the most cited in Russian.  She did a DVD, too.  But the core significations are not too far from Ronia’s.  Reversals, 6 x 6 and the master method are all quite common in Russia. 
 

No one disputes that the cards have evolved. The Boat was never just a ship, even back in 1800.  But there is a difference between natural evolution and complete revision. 

No card at its core can be considered simply sex or work. A lily flower is not a picture of sex.  That is not an issue of complications, simplicity, archaic or modernisation.
 

It’s about the essential nature of the emblem.
 

If we say a card means sex, or that we must pick just one, we create an oversimplification. Things should never be simplified to the detriment of nuance.  But that is what happens.

 

I do not want this thread to descend into hostility. Most people can agree to disagree, and also adjust language to a more neutral stance e.g. Marco-influenced rather than French. It is an issue of respect.  
 

@katrinka

Edited May 1, 2021 by Guest
Typo

[Raggydoll]

I wanted to pop in and say that the staff has noticed that there is sometimes a tense atmosphere in the Lenormand section, and we are appealing to everyone to help us stop this trend. Whatever happened back on AT is not something that needs to be repeated here. I can tell that several of you are already trying to soothe the situation and help people get along, and we really appreciate that. Lets continue in that direction! 💜

 

[Guest]

Please feel free to delete my posts, @Raggydoll.

 

It was never the intention to upset anyone. But sweeping statements and generalisations do not help. 

[Raggydoll]

34 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

Please feel free to delete my posts, @Raggydoll.

 

It was never the intention to upset anyone. But sweeping statements and generalisations do not help. 

I don’t think anything needs deleting. I have seen your attempts to keep the peace in other threads and I appreciate that. I don’t think the issue is down to individual members but rather a tense atmosphere that has been allowed to simmer for a bit too long. I’m confident that we can turn it around. I know all of you and you are good people 🙂

[katrinka]

I've got nothing but gratitude towards @timtoldrum. He's been clearing up a LOT of misinformation.
 

[gregory]

I'm learning so much from him - and his book lends a delightful degree of clarity. I'm not sure I will ever "get" Lenormand, but reading what he says makes so much more sense than most random posts I've seen over the years, which simply spread confusion..

[Raggydoll]

4 minutes ago, katrinka said:

I've got nothing but gratitude towards @timtoldrum. He's been clearing up a LOT of misinformation.
 

I think it’s great that we have so many experienced members that can help beginners with their questions. It’s immensely  valuable to get hands on guidance and situation-specific advice. With that said, we have had some members feel like this section isn’t the most welcoming for beginners and that the dialogues can get too heated at times. It’s stuff that happens on forum, and like I said, we don’t see it as being the fault of individual members. We just like to turn things around as soon as possible. I’m convinced that you all understand and want the same thing 🙂 I myself look forward to this section growing and blossoming because I do still intend to try and participate once I’m done with my own deck project. So.., in 2028? 🤣

[katrinka]

Hopefully before we're too old to remember how to read the cards, @Raggydoll!

Beginners are, of course, welcome. Some conversations are about explaining the basics and recommending books, but others are more intermediate/advanced. I can see newcomers feeling like they don't have anything to say in those, but I think we need both kinds of conversations. 😉