Temperance

[Grandma]

2 minutes ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

4 hours ago, KiMo said:

Yes, that’s another interesting angle! Tempering oneself, in one way or another, to become something new and different.

I wish this didn’t sound, or feel, so much like conforming. As someone who has spent much of my life feeling like I’ve had to change myself to fit in, to be different than my natural self for the sake of others, this is a tough description for me to embrace. I see it, but it makes me feel like there is a need to review whether the new creation is actually a good one. I’ve been reviewing this in all areas of my life, asking “is this me or is this man-made messaging?”

 

A new way to think about this for sure. 

Interesting observation. To me it feels the opposite of conforming. I too spent most of my life trying to fit in until I just accepted that I don't have the knack for it. I tempered myself, although I hadn't thought of it this way until reading what KiMo wrote, by hammering out the imperfections and letting my true self shine. People often assume that I look and act outside the norm from a need to show that I am different. People are wrong. I do it because I AM different, and that is a very different motivation.

[FindYourSovereignty]

36 minutes ago, Grandma said:

Interesting observation. To me it feels the opposite of conforming. I too spent most of my life trying to fit in until I just accepted that I don't have the knack for it. I tempered myself, although I hadn't thought of it this way until reading what KiMo wrote, by hammering out the imperfections and letting my true self shine. People often assume that I look and act outside the norm from a need to show that I am different. People are wrong. I do it because I AM different, and that is a very different motivation.

I guess it depends if one is choosing to temper from an internal, personal place or because of outside expectations. (I.e. who decides what an imperfection is?) Sometimes I feel change happens because something outside of us keeps massaging and molding, trying to make us into something we weren’t even aware of. I personally didn’t want to consider Temperance in this way, but I see how it could be and am grateful for the perspective. Awareness is a game changer for me.  
 

I think you are pretty cool - not that it matters what I think, but, just sayin’.

[Grandma]

17 minutes ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I.e. who decides what an imperfection is?

In this case, I do. The imperfections are the ways in which I am not true to myself. 

 

19 minutes ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I think you are pretty cool - not that it matters what I think, but, just sayin’.

Thank you and actually it does. When I have a good opinion of someone, it is good to know that they have a good opinion of me. If someone I respect does not respect me, that is usually a sign that something about me needs tempering!

[FindYourSovereignty]

26 minutes ago, Grandma said:

In this case, I do. The imperfections are the ways in which I am not true to myself. 

 

 I embrace this.

 

28 minutes ago, Grandma said:

If someone I respect does not respect me, that is usually a sign that something about me needs tempering!

😊 I have a great deal of respect for you. 
 

Thank you for sharing. 

[Grandma]

2 minutes ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

Thank you for sharing. 

I could talk about this stuff til the cows come home! Isn't it fun to know people who feel the same way we do? That's a reason that Tarot Tea & Me is one of the rare and precious places in this world where I belong. 

[DanielJUK]

In the Thoth deck, they renamed the card Art, as in the Art of Alchemy and it's about the mixing and making something out of two elements. It has a chemistry feel. The idea of Alchemy is to take base materials (or metals) that were cheap and easy to find and discover a way to turn them into Gold, then you would be very, very rich! Gold takes mining to find or panhandling and it's labour intensive and precious. So if you could take ingredients and mix it up to make something better, it would be quite the invention! That's a suggestion here. Tempering changes something to make it perform better, you can temper swords (you heat them with fire / heat and then cool them with cold water, to make the metal stronger and harder), you can also temper chocolate. But both are specialist skills, if you do the process wrong it will become brittle and shatter. It's a slow, careful process with no instant results, it needs patience.

 

The RWS card version is similar and she mixes what looks like Water in the cups in her hands. From a higher cup to a lower cup. Mixing liquids to make something new.

 

The card has a perfect balance with the elements as symbols. The Angel has one foot is in the water, one foot on the land (Earth), The breastplate has the alchemical triangle symbol of Fire and there are Wings with lines around maybe representing Air (flight). The card is Fire and Sagittarius in associations but all the elements are here.

 

The fascinating thing about the card is that it brings together opposites in balance and integration, The Angel is both male and female. They stand with one foot on Earth (conscious) and one foot on Water (subconscious / intuition), the cups represent higher and lower planes. I think balance is crucial with this card and many cultural and spiritual systems have balance of all things as an important goal to work towards. Temperance is a quality of self-control. I don't really see it as conforming, yes perhaps sometimes but this is more about balancing things. The Temperance Movement in many countries was ultimately about moralism, if you do this thing which some see as morally bad, you might lead to ruin. I think conforming is really a Hierophant area, it's much better to think of this card as finding balance. This isn't about giving up drinking alcohol but about moderating it and finding a third way. Like with those cups, why not mix water and wine, that is moderating but still enjoying social drinking, a wine spritzer!

 

It's not about giving up something but finding better balance with it. It's about taking the middle ground in decisions, perhaps a compromise but not going to extremes.

 

Tempering yourself is about finding a balance in yourself and having a long-term vision. Perhaps that Angel symbolises finding a purpose. You might realise what you want to do in your life and you are listening to your intuition (water) and grounding it in reality (earth). In the majors, the next card is Death and so quite the transformation and renewal is coming. But this is about realising perhaps your purpose, getting a vision of what you want to do or be.

 

I always think of this card about balance, finding a third or middle way as a solution and mixing things in creation. Mixing opposites to make it work out.

 

edited to add: - I realised later I made a mistake in my post here. Death comes before Temperance in the Majors, not after 🤦‍♂️. So a person is going through transformation and renewal, something in their life has died and has to be left behind. This card is about finding a purpose to carry on, I think it's an optimism and making things work out again.

Edited January 13, 2023 by DanielJUK

[FindYourSovereignty]

1 hour ago, DanielJUK said:

It's not about giving up something but finding better balance with it. It's about taking the middle ground in decisions, perhaps a compromise but not going to extremes.

 

1 hour ago, DanielJUK said:

 

I always think of this card about balance, finding a third or middle way as a solution and mixing things in creation. Mixing opposites to make it work out.

These descriptions resonate with me. I always enjoy the details you share, @DanielJUK. Thank you.

 

 

Quote

I could talk about this stuff til the cows come home! Isn't it fun to know people who feel the same way we do? That's a reason that Tarot Tea & Me is one of the rare and precious places in this world where I belong. 

 

@Grandma, Me, too.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by FindYourSovereignty

[Misterei]

6 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I wish this didn’t sound, or feel, so much like conforming. As someone who has spent much of my life feeling like I’ve had to change myself to fit in, to be different than my natural self for the sake of others, ...

I don't associate Temperance with this sort of conformity. This sounds more like Hierophant conformity to social norms.

 

Temperance in the sense of emotional sobriety has to do with not succumbing to the temptation of negative emotions. For example I might feel myself slipping into a morose mood where everything is bleak and life is f*cked and what's the use? It can be a sheer act of Will to pull myself out of this emotional pity pot. Or anger when people don't act right. Or envy. Or spite. Or any of the many ways I intoxicate myself with harmful emotions. In Islam the Ramadan fast is also to avoid negative emotions ... not just food.

 

All this has to do with the Alchemical temperance of the soul. @DanielJUK I actually think of Thoth's Art card as Temperance ... even reading RWS or TdM. The alchemical fusion of Fire and Water ... male and female polarities ... if you're going to mess around with kundalini forces ... ya better have purified emotions.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Misterei

[SunshineMoon]

On 1/10/2023 at 12:14 AM, Grandma said:

And I'm sure that I'm not the only member who is happy that you have joined us.

Thank you so much, @Grandma!

[SunshineMoon]

12 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

In the Thoth deck, they renamed the card Art, as in the Art of Alchemy and it's about the mixing and making something out of two elements. It has a chemistry feel. The idea of Alchemy is to take base materials (or metals) that were cheap and easy to find and discover a way to turn them into Gold, then you would be very, very rich! Gold takes mining to find or panhandling and it's labour intensive and precious. So if you could take ingredients and mix it up to make something better, it would be quite the invention! That's a suggestion here. Tempering changes something to make it perform better, you can temper swords (you heat them with fire / heat and then cool them with cold water, to make the metal stronger and harder), you can also temper chocolate. But both are specialist skills, if you do the process wrong it will become brittle and shatter. It's a slow, careful process with no instant results, it needs patience.

 

The RWS card version is similar and she mixes what looks like Water in the cups in her hands. From a higher cup to a lower cup. Mixing liquids to make something new.

 

The card has a perfect balance with the elements as symbols. The Angel has one foot is in the water, one foot on the land (Earth), The breastplate has the alchemical triangle symbol of Fire and there are Wings with lines around maybe representing Air (flight). The card is Fire and Sagittarius in associations but all the elements are here.

 

The fascinating thing about the card is that it brings together opposites in balance and integration, The Angel is both male and female. They stand with one foot on Earth (conscious) and one foot on Water (subconscious / intuition), the cups represent higher and lower planes. I think balance is crucial with this card and many cultural and spiritual systems have balance of all things as an important goal to work towards. Temperance is a quality of self-control. I don't really see it as conforming, yes perhaps sometimes but this is more about balancing things. The Temperance Movement in many countries was ultimately about moralism, if you do this thing which some see as morally bad, you might lead to ruin. I think conforming is really a Hierophant area, it's much better to think of this card as finding balance. This isn't about giving up drinking alcohol but about moderating it and finding a third way. Like with those cups, why not mix water and wine, that is moderating but still enjoying social drinking, a wine spritzer!

 

It's not about giving up something but finding better balance with it. It's about taking the middle ground in decisions, perhaps a compromise but not going to extremes.

 

Tempering yourself is about finding a balance in yourself and having a long-term vision. Perhaps that Angel symbolises finding a purpose. You might realise what you want to do in your life and you are listening to your intuition (water) and grounding it in reality (earth). In the majors, the next card is Death and so quite the transformation and renewal is coming. But this is about realising perhaps your purpose, getting a vision of what you want to do or be.

 

I always think of this card about balance, finding a third or middle way as a solution and mixing things in creation. Mixing opposites to make it work out.

@DanielJUK This is such an amazing and insightful post. I absolutely love how you have described this and the stories related. I had an encounter with a hawk recently that was very unique. I just found out that the hawk is associated with the number 14 and that is Temperance, a teaching of higher expression. I could not connect with my Thoth deck; however, Temperance was the most beautiful card to me in that deck. I am glad that you shared some insight on the background of the card and why it is called Art! Thank you!

[November]

Hi SunshineMoon, generally Temperance is about finding the right balance, the right measure for things to work out, just like when you're baking a cake and must measure out all the ingredients properly 😄 Indeed this card is also related to the concepts of moderation, compromise and middle ground.

[KiMo]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:42 PM, FindYourSovereignty said:

I wish this didn’t sound, or feel, so much like conforming. As someone who has spent much of my life feeling like I’ve had to change myself to fit in, to be different than my natural self for the sake of others, this is a tough description for me to embrace.

Ah I apologise @FindYourSovereignty, I certainly didn't mean for my description to cause those feelings for you. I very much relate to what you wrote, I spent the greater part of my life living within a mould that had been made for me, one that I wasn't fully conscious of until recently. It hurts when you realise you haven't been living as yourself.

 

However in this case I see Temperance as coming from a place of personal stillness, contemplation and agency. The angel in the RWS, for example, could be seen as a symbol of higher knowledge and understanding, and therefore the changes being created are coming from a place of truth (at the risk of sounding trite). Any tempering would be for the purpose of bringing oneself into positive balance and equilibrium, rather than dampening in order to deny parts of ourself. @Grandma and @DanielJUK both said it much more eloquently than I can!

 

It's interesting what @Misterei says as well, that conformity could be represented by the Hierophant, especially in regards to society. I'll take it a step further and say that I also feel that the Devil could represent personal conforming and self denial. It is, after all, a circumstance that comes about from being chained to the manipulation of others. In extreme situations the Devil yanks violently at those chains, however sometimes he can pull them so subtly that we hardly realise we're being led...

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by KiMo

[FindYourSovereignty]

4 hours ago, KiMo said:

Ah I apologise @FindYourSovereignty, I certainly didn't mean for my description to cause those feelings for you. I very much relate to what you wrote, I spent the greater part of my life living within a mould that had been made for me, one that I wasn't fully conscious of until recently. It hurts when you realise you haven't been living as yourself.

 

Thank you. No apology necessary.  Maybe people go through different stages or types of tempering themselves to change or be different.  That’s not my situation any more. 
 

I responded because I think one can make the choice to temper or moderate their true selves to be liked without realizing that they may really be conforming to what others want.

[BradGad]

For me, Temperance is one of a triumvirate of cards that show us when water (at least some water, some cards) is in the picture, we are not dealing with waking reality... we are in the dream/symbolic world.

 

Water (in waking reality) doesn't behave like in Temperance... it just doesn't pour at a 45 degree angle. Likewise, you can't just put your foot on top of the water, like in The Star, unless you're Jesus. Likewise, if there's a crayfish in some water, like in The Moon, it's going to be under the water, not on top of it. (We could also think about the water in 6 of Swords in RWS... if water is calm on one side of the boat, it's not going to be wavy on the other side.)

 

Which is to say, with these cards, we are in a different reality, like in a dream. You're on a speedboat with your mom, but turns out it's not your mom, it's the Pope, and you put a cigarette to you lips and it turns into a trombone, no wait, not a trombone but a snake and there are, jeez, snakes all over the goddamn boat! 

 

Stuff changes, forget physics. Water gets weird in the cards. That's a sign. 

 

Temperance means more than this to me... In fact, this *isn't* what Temperance means to me... but it's a big part of how I read the card: we're not talking about reality here. Not this reality.

 

Temperance can mean any number of things... depends on context... Equilibrium, moderation, an angel, "all things in moderation, except moderation" (Oscar Wilde), a little bit of this, a little bit of that, Look!, I have wings! Bartender. One of the virtues. Etc. etc.

 

But you gotta watch the water.

 

(I'm new here... haven't had a chance to digest the whole thread. Just my two cents.)

 

EDIT: A thought: All the cards I mentioned (except the one minor), they're after The Wheel, after The Fool is done with the earthly part of his journey. All these cards are in the inner/spiritual part of the cycle. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by BradGad

[FindYourSovereignty]

5 hours ago, BradGad said:

(I'm new here... haven't had a chance to digest the whole thread. Just my two cents.)

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your thoughts and approach to Temperance. The thread is full of wonderful insights and a worthy read through. 
 

5 hours ago, BradGad said:

EDIT: A thought: All the cards I mentioned (except the one minor), they're after The Wheel, after The Fool is done with the earthly part of his journey. All these cards are in the inner/spiritual part of the cycle. 

Interesting observation and supportive of your approach in reading the card. I love when thoughts come together like that.

 

Fascinating read and insight shared.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by FindYourSovereignty
Typo

[Chariot]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:42 PM, FindYourSovereignty said:

I wish this didn’t sound, or feel, so much like conforming. As someone who has spent much of my life feeling like I’ve had to change myself to fit in, to be different than my natural self for the sake of others, this is a tough description for me to embrace. I see it, but it makes me feel like there is a need to review whether the new creation is actually a good one. I’ve been reviewing this in all areas of my life, asking “is this me or is this man-made messaging?”

 

A new way to think about this for sure. 

It's interesting, but while reading your post here, the first thing I thought of was 'The Hierophant.' That's the card I always regard as being about conformity.  Upright conformity is probably a good thing, reversed, probably should be resisted.  But seeing these characteristics in Temperance is an interesting addition to it.

I've usually regarded The Hierophant as a restrictive sort of card, but regarded Temperance as an enabling card. But I supposed that being so concerned about enabling to the extent that your own self gets lost is probably not a good thing. So thank you for this insight.  I'll take it on board.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Chariot

[FindYourSovereignty]

55 minutes ago, Chariot said:

It's interesting, but while reading your post here, the first thing I thought of was 'The Hierophant.' That's the card I always regard as being about conformity.  Upright conformity is probably a good thing, reversed, probably should be resisted.  But seeing these characteristics in Temperance is an interesting addition to it.

Thank you for sharing. I see where conformity is an obvious characteristic in the Hierophant, however, Temperance, as exampled by The American Temperance Society, or gradually adjusting oneself to their circumstances is, IMO, a form of conforming whether it is by choice or enforced upon you. Something is indicating you need to be different. To temper ones actions, thoughts and deeds, self-restraint, self-control, to voluntarily abstain from alcohol (or be forced to), is change required of oneself and conforming to the circumstances. Either way, the goal is to become better, stronger, and to keep mixing and changing until you do, and, in the examples of the Temperance Society and adjusting body temperature by daily getting into ice cold water, is adjusting to feel more equipped for your circumstances. To temper a sword or a blade, the mixing and blending of different metals, is a form of cutting away and changing the original.

 

I appreciate the opportunity for this discussion as I hadn’t recognized this connection prior and now I feel it is a valuable one, to me.

[Karrma]

The Art card (Temperance) in The Rosetta Tarot by m m meleen.  This was the first card I studied in my first deck and the reason I needed to start with a Thoth style deck. Named Art rather than Temperance. While I loved how water and fire transformed into the rainbow rather than fog or steam (although steam has lots of power) the main thing that struck me was how a curved wood bow and string could make a lute to send music into the air, or a weapon bow to send an arrow in the air. It can also be used around a post to start a fire. So temperance as to temper , to change, to find the third path. Finding peace is not always easy. When next to two cards that can be considered to not mesh well together look for the third way. 

[Nnaiad]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:14 PM, Misterei said:

And I "got" it. The blending of fire and water to make something new (tea). The alchemical fusion of opposites. I began to see temperance as a far more active card. The FUSION of opposing forces more than the balance. Boiling water for tea is active ... not passive. Both water and fire become Something Else.

Misterei,

 

This is the idea I'm toying with right now. I am now at a point in my tarot reading where I am not interested in keywords especially, but moreso the metaphors having to do with the elements and the numbers and all of the other so very many metaphors of tarot and I drew the Temperance card and this time, what I really foucsed on was the water and fire symbol  on the Angel's chest in the RWS deck. I mean, Waite's symbols were put there deliberately, so obviously this is important to understanding the comcepts. And I get what you are saying, it's so difficult to put into words. 

I know it goes into Tarot correspondences but specifically water and fire, which weaken each other. Too much water puts out fire, too much fire will boil the water away. So, you have to adjust things until it is just right and neither harms the other. You can contain fire with water, for instance, when someone speaks to me the wrong way, I personally control my temper with empathy and thinking to myself that maybe they are having a bad day. But you can also put out the fire leaving a dead, soggy ruined spot on the ground. And you can use water to cook for instance but if you turn the heat up too high, it will boil and everything will be ruined.  

 

It seems to me that if he chose these two suits to be the suits of emphasis on his card, it  must have a spiritual significance above the other two suits so I haven't really been thinking about the other two suits but of course, they have correspondences too. 

I usually use the 'alchemy' meaning but this is something I have just been turning around in my mind,  that fire and water related issues would be the most significant, at least if you are reading with RWS.

[Nnaiad]

Martin Luther King, Jr. identified the necessary tension of embodying both qualities in his sermon “A Tough Mind And A Tender Heart.” A few excerpts:

 

A French philosopher said, “No man is strong unless he bears within his character antitheses strongly marked.” The strong man holds in a living blend strongly marked opposites. Not ordinarily do men achieve this balance of opposites. The idealists are not usually realistic, and the realists are not usually idealistic. The militant are not generally known to be passive, nor the passive to be militant. Seldom are the humble self-assertive, or the self-assertive humble. But life at its best is a creative synthesis of opposites in fruitful harmony. The philosopher Hegel said that truth is found neither in the thesis nor the antithesis, but in an emergent synthesis that reconciles the two.

Jesus recognized the need for blending opposites.  He knew that his disciples would face a difficult and hostile world. … He gave them a formula for action, 'Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.' It is pretty difficult to imagine a single person having, simultaneously, the characteristics of the serpent and the dove, but this is what Jesus expects. We must combine the toughness of the serpent and the softness of the dove, a tough mind and a tender heart.

A third way is open to our quest for freedom, namely nonviolent resistance, which combines tough mindedness and tenderheartedness and avoids the complacency and do-nothingness of the soft minded and the violence and bitterness of the hardhearted. My belief is that this method must guide our action in the present crisis in race relations. Through nonviolent resistance we shall be able to oppose the unjust system and at the same time love the perpetrators of the system.  We must work passionately and unrelentingly for full stature as citizens, but may it never be said, my friends, that to gain it we used the inferior methods of falsehood, malice, hate, and violence.