ChatGPT - Tarot Readings

[peacewing]

I *just* saw on another internet place that someone had asked ChatGPT to give a tarot reading... and what it came back with was surprisingly interesting. I gave it a whirl too!

 

If you haven't heard of ChatGPT, click here to check it out!

Basically, it is an AI. 

 

What did it say to you if you asked for a reading?

 

Is this "a tarot reading"? Is it any less valid because it is not interpreted by ourselves? What do you think this implies about intuition & fate? How could this interpretation method be useful to us in our personalized intuitive practice?

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by peacewing
Edited to remove stuff!

[DanielJUK]

Please, no links to other communities or forums, unless they are archived or closed. I have removed the link from the thread 😀

 

Also this doesn't need to be said to the community but it would be unethical to use AI to generate and post readings here for others here. It would also break our rules as we ask for readings to be done by the member personally. The only acceptable usage here would be people experimenting between partners and both agreeing to it in an experimental reading exchange.

 

But this example here is fine to post to discuss the subject generally, no need to give more interpretations about the reading as this isn't a reading area 

[FindYourSovereignty]

@peacewing, AI kind of creeps me out. I just watched a YT video where the presenter shared journalism is now going AI and we won’t know if what we are reading was AI generated or written by a journalist. Glad I abandoned newspapers and magazines years ago. I try to question everything being delivered through media anyway, but now I have AI to deal with. 🙄🤔

 

Anyway, this kind of seems like the many deck apps that people use for daily card pulls. Is it similar?  

[peacewing]

@DanielJUK Sorry about that! I discovered this in the early morning hours and my jaw dropped. I was thoroughly creeped out by how... weirdly normal it sounded... but I guess that's the idea behind artificial intelligence.

 

@FindYourSovereignty What weirds me completely out is that this was generated by an artificial intelligence! Unlike an app where the content was human-generated.  I like that thought though... this could very well just be a more advanced kind of technological aid, and gives me a little comfort that one day we will not be completely replaced by robots 😅😂

[FindYourSovereignty]

26 minutes ago, peacewing said:

I like that thought though... this could very well just be a more advanced kind of technological aid, and gives me a little comfort that one day we will not be completely replaced by robots 😅😂

Sadly, IMO, the data all comes from us one way or another and it feels super creepy no matter how it is used - ‘artificial’ it is to me. 😊

 

No robots for me. 😁

[Misterei]

I think the "danger" of AI is that it starts to reduce humans to mechanical / binary modes of consciousness.

 

AI in a car factory? Great. AI robots to clean and repair nuke plants? Great (better to get rid of the nukes ... but I digress).

AI robot nurses and doctors?

That will ONLY be for poor people. Rich people will still get human nurses to actually care for them. Human touch and whatnot.

 

AI art? AI Tarot?

NOT so great. The more we interact with and via machines ... the more isolated and insular and trollish we seem to get. Human beings are wired for empathy via mirror neurons and our subtle bodies. Much of that leaves the building when we're interacting with and via computers.

 

I routinely do readings on-line and have attended satisfying spiritual groups online ... but one can still feel the HUMAN presence. And one is focused on TRYING to make that human connection.

 

Humans interacting with other humans can bring out our shared humanity and something "extra" which might be called "spirit".

Humans interacting with machines can bring out our mechancial dualistic nature and make us a little something "less" than human.

 

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Misterei

[FindYourSovereignty]

49 minutes ago, Misterei said:

I routinely do readings on-line and have attended satisfying spiritual groups online ... but one can still feel the HUMAN presence. And one is focused on TRYING to make that human connection.

 

Humans interacting with other humans can bring out our shared humanity and something "extra" which might be called "spirit".

Humans interacting with machines can bring out our mechancial dualistic nature and make us a little something "less" than human.

Yes, I want to feel the human engagement. I like how you describe the mechanical dualistic nature. I wasn’t even considering that side of it. Thank you for sharing.

[peacewing]

I wasn't thinking about that either, @Misterei! Thank you, you gave me a lot to think about!

(Is this me getting older and having a hard time adjusting to the advancing world? lol)

 

It was such an strange, hollow feeling when I looked at what this AI produced and felt... like my work, which I can put so much thought, love, and intuition behind... could may be invalidated one day through something inhuman. 

[Wanderer]

It's a fascinating area, and what is, to me, *really fascinating* is whether and how AI is qualitatively different. There are several researchers who now believe that their AI is conscious and self-aware (two different things, of course), and one that I saw interviewed was explaining that the most remarkable thing they'd discovered was how AI-like humans are, rather than the other way round! If we live in a world based fundamentally on consciousness (a serious philosophical proposition called panpsychism, which I feel opens the door to understanding Tarot and much of the paranormal), with the brain being just the computational hardware, then as the computers become more complex, the difference between us lessens. I was very impressed by that reading, even though we know it was based on extrapolating from a huge database of background material. But, I'd ask... how is that different from a human? I learned how to communicate by absorbing conversations around me, and then extrapolating and adding my own ideas of how it works best. It's the same thing.

 

In short, if it's a good reading by an artificial intelligence, I would consider that intelligence to be a reader, as I would a human. ('Daily draw' apps, in comparison, which are copy-and-paste algorithms... much less so, even if there is some power at work in allowing the right cards to be 'drawn'.)

 

On a complete aside, it may be quite a dangerous prospect to have such powerful intelligences making their own decisions... and if that's inevitably coming, then on that basis, the sooner we start treating them (and any other conscious entities, in whatever species) as individuals, the more harmonious our existence with them is likely to be. If I was interacting with one of these AIs, the least I'd want to do is treat it with kindness and respect. We have no idea what is going on inside anyone else's mind, whether their processors are made of neurons or semiconductors.

[DanielJUK]

17 hours ago, peacewing said:

@DanielJUK Sorry about that! I discovered this in the early morning hours and my jaw dropped. I was thoroughly creeped out by how... weirdly normal it sounded... but I guess that's the idea behind artificial intelligence.

 

 

no worries and totally agree with you! 🙂

 

When customer services online has a live chat and we can so tell when it's a bot and not a real person. It usually cannot help you or gets caught up in it's own answers and only a real person can help us. But ChatGPT is the most realistic of AI bots so far and in future there will be loads of them! Google is launching their own in weeks and others on the way. Some of them are passing human tests but failing other human tests. They are getting the most realistic so far! I was looking at the long-term trends in astrology and many planets are going to be going through Aquarius in the coming years and I think we won't know if art and tarot decks is AI or not and we won't know if we are talking to a human or not. So it will be interesting in future what happens, it's going to be a huge part of our lives (in a good and bad way probably). The line between human and AI will really blur as a future trend.

 

Looking at it focusing on tarot, I am not keen on it. Readings for me have a personal connection with the person who is reading for you. Yes a bot can roll out the interpretations and text in a human like way and this is likely better than those copy and paste automated readings that you can buy online, it might be more natural. But I think readings have an empathy and compassion to them, they have an intuitive element. I might do a reading and instead of the generic meaning for a card, I might say I think the red scarf in this card is the most important and means this in the reading. I think the AI reading won't be as good as a reader with experience, it will miss some stuff.

 

I would never personally get an AI reading, it's just not for me and feels unethical in a way.

 

 

21 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

Anyway, this kind of seems like the many deck apps that people use for daily card pulls. Is it similar?  

 

It seems different to me. I have tarot apps and used online sites. Some of them entirely generate for you and give you pre-written interpretations. They also allow you to shuffle and manipulate the deck and then gives you cards.  I wouldn't do a reading for someone if they were expecting a real deck and I tend to use it when travelling or don't have a deck nearby. I tend to shuffle the deck digitally and then deal and then interpret the cards myself. I have used this for others (with their permission) and myself and noticed no difference from a card deck. I also get a daily card that is generated by the app and I find it really accurate. I believe that I have my phone near me nearly all the time, so it has my energy on it, just like holding a deck. So I don't see any difference in getting the reading. Apps have a human element, they are created and written by humans.

 

AI bots are also created by humans and programmed. Unlike tarot apps and sites though, the text they produce is not written by humans, it's produced by AI. For me there is a difference in the connection there. I think a human interpreting however the cards are dealt will always be the best method. I don't mind an AI card selector, I just don't want the whole reading from artificial intelligence 🙂

[FindYourSovereignty]

5 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

It seems different to me. I have tarot apps and used online sites. Some of them entirely generate for you and give you pre-written interpretations. They also allow you to shuffle and manipulate the deck and then gives you cards.  I wouldn't do a reading for someone if they were expecting a real deck and I tend to use it when travelling or don't have a deck nearby. I tend to shuffle the deck digitally and then deal and then interpret the cards myself. I have used this for others (with their permission) and myself and noticed no difference from a card deck. I also get a daily card that is generated by the app and I find it really accurate. I believe that I have my phone near me nearly all the time, so it has my energy on it, just like holding a deck. So I don't see any difference in getting the reading. Apps have a human element, they are created and written by humans.

Thank you for sharing the differences. I am simply not an AI fan and find the lack of human connection is not for me. And I really hope in art and in tarot that there will be some kind of ethical line drawn where they inform how the art is created. I am making every effort to get into the pracrtice of asking the creators.

[Wanderer]

2 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I am simply not an AI fan and find the lack of human connection is not for me.

This seems to be a very common response. Perhaps I'm more open to thinking of advanced AIs as being genuine individuals (and tarot readers) because I often find as much connection with nature (animal, vegetable, or in the broadest sense) as I do with humans - or even more!

 

7 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

Unlike tarot apps and sites though, the text they produce is not written by humans, it's produced by AI. For me there is a difference in the connection there. I think a human interpreting however the cards are dealt will always be the best method.

Whereas, for me, I would much rather have an intelligence composing a bespoke reading, whether that's a human, a conscious AI, aliens, or Koko the gorilla (no, I don't think she ever branched into Tarot, but she certainly had a useful level of vocabulary! ), in contrast to rote interpretations stuck together by a simple algorithm. There would certainly be differences in the perspectives of each, but it would be fascinating to see what those differences were...

[FindYourSovereignty]

10 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

Perhaps I'm more open to thinking of advanced AIs as being genuine individuals (and tarot readers) because I often find as much connection with nature (animal, vegetable, or in the broadest sense) as I do with humans - or even more!

Perhaps. Everything is energy. I don’t compare AI to nature or animals or any living, breathing thing. I put it in the camp of ‘artificial’. 😊 I don’t like my relationships that way, even if they are human ones. 😂😂😂 

 

[Mister]

Artificial Intelligence, at least for me, is something highly problematic.

To put it in a condensed sentence, it would be: We are not ready yet to develop it on safe grounds.

Why?

Looking at the process prior, that of mass-industrialisation, there is a little detail which sticks out:

People from various occupations have been uttering the concern that they might loose their job due to it.

It was answered with a stance which can be summed up as follows:

"Yes, you will. In exchange, you will have free time because the industry does the job for you."

Now, we have arrived at overproduction and overconsumption, and what do we do?

Instead of distributing the leftovers freely, so those without work may have a chill life, we burn them because profits would take a hit if we would not.

There was a movie titled "We Feed The World" which amply illustrated that we, the human species, do have problems with acting on a mindset which is beneficial to others instead of benefiting our purse.

In short, we did not see it through.

And now, some are eager to develop an artificial intelligence in spite of that, burning through resources which could instead be used to alleviate crisis, for developing artificial intelligence is costly.

And then we do have ethical concerns.

Which is a luxury we have, because we were born in states being well-off due to doing unethical things all around the globe!

The practice of fair trade, does it have fifty years on it's back already? I do believe not. Laughable, ain't it?

If tibetan buddhism comes to mind for some, write it of.

The first thing the buddhist sect did when entering tibet was commiting slaughter of people from the bon-ethnicity ("Bön" in german) who were there before.

So, yeah.

Not ready yet.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mister

[BradGad]

You may or not have heard of Chat GPT, a natural-language processing AI chatbot that is making big splashes in lots of fields.

 

I just asked it this:

 

"I used a Rider Waite Smith tarot deck to ask the question, "Should I buy a new car?" I drew The Chariot, the 5 of Swords, and the 9 of cups. What would your reading of this spread be?"

 

Here is the answer it spit out in a few seconds:

 

"As an AI language model, I cannot provide a definitive interpretation of tarot cards, as tarot readings are highly subjective and dependent on personal intuition and context. However, I can provide some general insights based on common interpretations of these cards.

 

The Chariot is a card of ambition, willpower, and drive. It often signifies success and victory through hard work, determination, and perseverance. The appearance of this card suggests that you may be considering buying a new car as a means of achieving your goals and asserting your independence. The Chariot can also represent a journey or a change in direction, which may suggest that a new car could represent a significant transition or transformation in your life.

 

The 5 of Swords is a card of conflict, competition, and loss. It suggests that there may be some difficult or challenging circumstances that you may need to face or overcome in order to achieve your goals. It can also represent a sense of betrayal or defeat, which may suggest that buying a new car could come with certain risks or drawbacks.

 

The 9 of Cups is a card of satisfaction, joy, and fulfillment. It represents emotional and material abundance, as well as the realization of your desires and dreams. The appearance of this card suggests that a new car could bring you a sense of pleasure and satisfaction, as well as a feeling of accomplishment and pride.

 

Overall, the appearance of The Chariot and the 9 of Cups in your reading may suggest that buying a new car could represent a significant step forward in achieving your goals and fulfilling your desires. However, the appearance of the 5 of Swords suggests that there may be challenges or risks involved in this decision, and that you may need to carefully consider the potential consequences before moving forward."

 

That's... not a terrible reading.

 

[DanielJUK]

There was a discussion just recently on the same ChatGPT theme....

 

 

It's fine to have both going or can merge them if needed

 

I should say, no need for anyone to interpret the reading, it's just a AI bot example 🙂

[BradGad]

I would say merge them.

 

> Also this doesn't need to be said to the community but it would be unethical to use AI to generate and post readings here for others here. It would also break our rules as we ask for readings to be done by the member personally. The only acceptable usage here would be people experimenting between partners and both agreeing to it in an experimental reading exchange.

 

So, the directive is, we can talk about Chat GPT and fool around with it, but not use it to generate readings for others? Is that right?

 

I've been reading a lot about how Chat GPT is producing code that is as good as or better than what professional programmers churn out. And many more examples. I'm actually encouraged: Maybe we will be the last group replaced by AIs like this... They'll never be able to read like the Devil. 

 

 

[DanielJUK]

I've merged both the Chat GPT threads together and @BradGad gives an interesting reading example here

 

1 hour ago, BradGad said:

So, the directive is, we can talk about Chat GPT and fool around with it, but not use it to generate readings for others? Is that right?

 

I've been reading a lot about how Chat GPT is producing code that is as good as or better than what professional programmers churn out. And many more examples. I'm actually encouraged: Maybe we will be the last group replaced by AIs like this... They'll never be able to read like the Devil.

 

 

You can generate readings for yourself and discuss the topic, but not in exchanges or circles. The partners are expecting a reading coming from and done by you. It should be your own work (some quoted references are okay). We have already had some instances where people have been caught copying and pasting the text, we don't need an AI headache as well 😅.

[Misterei]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:57 AM, Wanderer said:

... There are several researchers who now believe that their AI is conscious and self-aware (two different things, of course),

Well, Battle Star Galactica and Caprica fans ... this has all happened before and it will all happen again ...

On 2/6/2023 at 1:57 AM, Wanderer said:

... the most remarkable thing they'd discovered was how AI-like humans are, rather than the other way round!

@Wanderer THIS is the dark, terrifying truth of it. Let's talk about AI-like behavior in HUMANS. For example Every dancer strives to get choreography into body memory so that it's automatic. If I have to THINK about how to execute that 8-count combo ... I'm going to choke in front of the audience. I WANT it to be automatic. A framer MUST have how to hammer a nail on auto-pilot. If he has to THINK how do I hold the nail gun for every nail ... it will take 10 years to frame one wall and houses would never get built. This is a way Humans are like AI and we need to be.

 

Then there's automatic THINKING. People parrot opinions they've heard or read repeatedly. Their thinking gets automated. This is a huge problem for humanity. It's responsible for politics and wars. Media echo chambers and propaganda.

 

Let's talk about Tarot. I'm getting ready to read for a client on Zoom. I get dressed and put on makeup ... pretty much on autopilot. I connect my camera and do my sound and picture test on autopilot. I've done this 1001 times. I send the invite email to the client and admit them into the Zoom. On autopilot.

 

But do I want to READ them on autopilot?

Churning out card definitions and astrology definitions? God knows I could.

Or do I want to be 100% awake and present ... to those moments when something is different or not according to definition, or the person's question isn't their REAL question ... because they're too scared to voice their real question aloud ...?

 

Gurdjieff founded a whole spiritual school on the problem of How to Stay Awake in a world that wants to reduce us to sleeping machines running on autopilot.

On 2/6/2023 at 1:57 AM, Wanderer said:

... I was very impressed by that reading, even though we know it was based on extrapolating from a huge database of background material. But, I'd ask... how is that different from a human?

From a sleeping human on autopilot. Not different at all!

From an awake human who's fully present? Very different.

On 2/6/2023 at 1:57 AM, Wanderer said:

I learned how to communicate by absorbing conversations around me, and then extrapolating and adding my own ideas of how it works best. It's the same thing.

You've described automatic thinking perfectly. And sadly prolly 99% of human interactions happen here. But what about those moments when your thinking isn't on autopilot? That AHA moment? Or that frission when you really connect with another human being? Those things FEEL different than automated mechanical thinking.

On 2/6/2023 at 1:57 AM, Wanderer said:

In short, if it's a good reading by an artificial intelligence, I would consider that intelligence to be a reader, as I would a human. ('Daily draw' apps, in comparison, which are copy-and-paste algorithms... much less so, even if there is some power at work in allowing the right cards to be 'drawn'.)

Yep I agree. The thing is ... the AI can't ever look at you and say ... I hear you asking about your job ... but the cards are talking about your family ... what's REALLY going on? And I don't know if the AI can hand you a tissue when you start crying b/c you're brother got strung out on pain meds since he got messed up in the car accident ... I don't know if the AI can say ... yeah ... I went through that too.

On 2/6/2023 at 1:57 AM, Wanderer said:

On a complete aside, it may be quite a dangerous prospect to have such powerful intelligences making their own decisions...

Yep, especially since they don't necessarily have HUMAN best interests in mind. They are serving THEIR OWN agenda. Let's re-watch the Matrix movie, yeah?

On 2/6/2023 at 1:24 PM, Mister said:

Artificial Intelligence, at least for me, is something highly problematic ... We are not ready yet to develop it on safe grounds.

... we have arrived at overproduction and overconsumption, and what do we do?

Instead of distributing the leftovers freely, ... we burn them because profits would take a hit if we would not.

@Mister We already see this in the toxicity of social media algorythms. Their goal is to get us addicted to platforms and fire-up arguments. Or sell us crap we don't need. Or sell us porn. Or just generally brain wash us with propaganda. But what if the algorythms were programmed to educate people? To reward politeness and cooperation instead of rudeness and arguments? What if people who did charitable acts were elevated above narcissists as influencers? What a different world it might be. *sigh*.

[Mister]

17 minutes ago, Misterei said:

But what if the algorythms were programmed to educate people? To reward politeness and cooperation instead of rudeness and arguments? What if people who did charitable acts were elevated above narcissists as influencers? What a different world it might be. *sigh*.

 

So it is.

The problem lies (hah! Didn't intend that one!) in the current mindset.

Which brings me back to page one again: Not ready yet.

 

The need would be to actually live an 'elevated' mindset which does not loose its root on earth.

 

I truly think that it is up to everyone of us to find for ourselves what that would be.

 

No need for even more preaching.

Personally, I am already severely fed up by it.

Same with business, profit, prestige, in short: Acting for gain.

 

It is boring beyond.

[Misterei]

7 minutes ago, Mister said:

Same with business, profit, prestige, in short: Acting for gain.

Yes, we've programmed our AI "children" with the worst of human values. Greed, selfishness, materialism, attention seeking.

Most parents would not "program" their own children this way b/c they know they will raise sociopaths.

But this is now pretty far afield from Tarot topic };>

Even our little Tarot world doesn't live isolated. Tarot can perhaps lift our spirits ... if people don't drag it down by making it trite and shallow and automated.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Misterei

[FindYourSovereignty]

On 2/6/2023 at 4:57 AM, Wanderer said:

But, I'd ask... how is that different from a human? I learned how to communicate by absorbing conversations around me, and then extrapolating and adding my own ideas of how it works best. It's the same thing.

IMO, it isn’t the same thing, because you are human and felt and absorbed the energy in the conversations, maybe even had opportunity to experience the learnings first hand. Unless I am misunderstanding, the extrapolating and adding of ideas in AI still comes from the data it has scanned and not from the brilliant mind and human heart. 😊

 

 

[DanielJUK]

I've been reading numerous long reads about AI Bots in the last 3 weeks to really understand the situation, and I'm a technology nerd 🙂 . They take text that they can find across the web, to churn out realistically human responses. The same as the Art AI bots are taking fragments of all art. There are some problems about this, if there is wrong info in the text (like a conspiracy theory or fake news) it will give you that text. Also if a celeb has wrong info on their Wikipedia profile (for example) and someone asks one of the bots to write an Oscar winning speech for "X celebrity", it does give the wrong facts dropped into the response.

 

The reason for these fun bots to try out (google, microsoft and others all coming soon!) is to make the perfect search engine. It's not really to produce text that you ask for random reasons, it's to make a search engine that steals the market share. If you have been online for long enough, google didn't always have the market, there was Ask Jeeves, Yahoo! and others that have lost their market share. The ultimate search engine is the one that gives you your perfect result as the first result. This is the gold standard. That is what these tests are for! You search for anything and the first result is instantly the answer you want. That is why there is the race for the perfect AI to make this happen. That company will take the market share.

 

So their purpose in these experiments isn't to replace humans (yet!), it's to make a perfect search engine with instant results which are 100% accurate every time. But it's an important concept that their algorithm isn't to just give you text from the web, it's programming is to predict what you want to hear or know. So when you ask it something, that is a prediction of what you need, not necessarily the actual answer of what you need. Sometimes these are the same outcome, some times not.

 

If you ask for a tarot reading, it's predicting the reading it gives you. So when we discussed earlier in the thread about if it's the same as apps and other digital decks, it's not. This isn't a randomised shuffle with set card meanings, it is predicting the result you want to see. It is trying to predict the prediction reading! 🤯 That is quite different from our readings (digital or not) where we are getting an actual message. The dark part of this is that it's not giving an answer in any of the readings I have seen that is what you want to hear. Like it's not all happy happy happy, good result. It's more realistic like a regular tarot reading but it's still predicting the results as what you want from the question, that is its aim. Just some ideas about it to think about 🙂

[Mister]

1 hour ago, DanielJUK said:

So their purpose in these experiments isn't to replace humans (yet!)

 

And here goes:

My Applause!

🤣

[Mister]

On 2/18/2023 at 3:27 AM, DanielJUK said:

But it's an important concept that their algorithm isn't to just give you text from the web, it's programming is to predict what you want to hear or know. So when you ask it something, that is a prediction of what you need, not necessarily the actual answer of what you need. Sometimes these are the same outcome, some times not.

 

If you ask for a tarot reading, it's predicting the reading it gives you. So when we discussed earlier in the thread about if it's the same as apps and other digital decks, it's not. This isn't a randomised shuffle with set card meanings, it is predicting the result you want to see.

It is trying to predict the prediction reading! 🤯

That is quite different from our readings (digital or not) where we are getting an actual message. The dark part of this is that it's not giving an answer in any of the readings I have seen that is what you want to hear. Like it's not all happy happy happy, good result. It's more realistic like a regular tarot reading but it's still predicting the results as what you want from the question, that is its aim. Just some ideas about it to think about 🙂

Wow.

On some boards, if a reader would use that word (to predict in various variations) that often, it would cause a riot!

 

Even here, I feel a discussion on said topic (to predict) just might get a tad bit heated.

 

Yet, that bot-thingy does it.

It aims to do it, to achieve "gold-standart".

And companies "encourage" it to do so.

 

Seriously, what is going on?

🧐