Three of Swords

[Karrma]

I have problems with the three of swords being called Jealosy or other emotional feelings that I would put more as a cups type of feeling. I learned that the Threes ( in Kabbalah) are higher up and as swords more in the thought , mind rather than feelings. I think of it as having to choose from two hearts desires as you may not be able to have both. Such as torn between music or medicine as a career when you love both but just one will take all your time. What do you think of using a one word label for a card. 

[gregory]

I've never seen it as jealousy at all. In terms of a relationship it's a break up - often one you didn't see coming. That could be because of cheating or something - but it was  unexpected - there wasn't a chance to feel jealousy - that would come later, when you realise it's all over and he/she is with someone else now. If they are - it could equally be "I just realised I actually don't like you; we're done." The swords side of it is the cold truth of it. If you (generic) felt jealous already it will have come from being suspicious - which may actually, in the end, have caused the breakup. It's heartbreak, not jealousy.

[Misterei]

1 hour ago, Karrma said:

I have problems with the three of swords being called Jealosy ...

What do you think of using a one word label for a card ...

Any Tarot card could have 10-12 meanings. Depending on the question, the spread. the other cards. One word? This is a fun memory game ... but not realistic.

In some spreads with some cards 3 Swords can mean jealousy. In another spread with other cards, heart problems.

And so on.

[BradGad]

I love RWS  decks, but this is also a perfect example of why I really don’t like RWS decks.

 

As @Misterei said, any card could have 10 - 12 meanings… or many more.

 

It’s just so hard to get past the negative and painful ideas that this image brings up, so viscercally. What’s it called? The “heartbreak” card?

 

(I haven’t heard of it as jealousy or such.)

 

> I think of it as having to choose from two hearts desires as you may not be able to have both.

 

Enngh… really? Wasn’t the point of choice back at the the two of hearts? After all, what you just said references two hearts (“I think of it as having to choose from two hearts desires as you may not be able to have both)”. Twos are about choices. When we get to the threes, a choice has been made.

 

You make your choice in the twos; the result (the “birth”) happens in the threes. Sometimes it’s painful. As here.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by BradGad

[gregory]

All this is perfectly true - any card's meaning depends on context, and yet again I am reminded of the day I got 10 Swords for a happy marriage, and my sitter TOTALLY got it.  I should not have posted so rigidly - just that the OP gave a single meaning and my knee jerked. Even so - jealousy isn't one that I have ever seen, I think.

[akiva]

In the PKT Waite gives it: "removal, absence, delay, division, rupture, dispersion" etc. (These meanings existed for the card long before Waite wrote that book too. He borrowed a lot from Etteilla and Mathers).

I think it is very much inline with what 3 represents: "The means by" which something happens. The means by which swords operate is by seperation.

Any heart break or emotional response caused by this, is secondary to them being caused by the separation.

As for using single keywords, I advocate it to a degree, but more as a distillation of a card down to its essence. This can help you to remember the core concept of the card. What's interesting is the above keywords Waite gave in his book are basically synonyms of seperation, the core principle of this card. 😊

[DanielJUK]

I don't know where Jealousy originally came from for this card, it's not in Waite's text but I have read jealousy associated with it online before.

This card doesn't scream jealousy at me, it's not the most obvious part of the card. I associate it the most with heartbreak, there is pain because something has ended emotionally. When someone ends a relationship out of the blue, you feel that heart pain! It could turn up as jealousy in that pain. Like you split up with someone and then see them with a new girlfriend, then that pain might be jealousy but I think it's better to generally think of it as that heart pain, the swords through the heart. That is such a visceral image.

 

This is quite a a cupsy swords card. But compare it to the 5 of Cups which is also about emotional loss, that is caused by feelings. The 3 of Swords has loss caused by thoughts and the truth, there are those swords.

I always think with this card about when we are in emotional sorrow and if you think about it, you get emotionally worse. That is the wallowing! Part of the healing from it, is to distract yourself and manage the thoughts!

About the idea of choices, it could be you have 3 choices with this card. Making the choice could cause heartbreak. You wanna pick the one you always wanted to do and is the most fun, no it's the "adult" choice which you have a sense of duty picking.

 

Anyway about a keyword, whilst jealousy can come up as the pain, I think it's not a good "core idea" of the card.  I think my main one would be heartache or heart pain.

 

Just linking it because it's a past interesting different discussion. @Chariot posted some ideas about if the card is about logic over emotion. I am not sure if I agree with that idea or not still, but it made me think....

 

 

[BradGad]

One way to see jealousy in the card, maybe…

 

We have three of something, and likely pain. That describes a love triangle, which — if it is known to the involved parties — would almost certainly be shaped by jealousy on the part of at least one member. 
 

[BradGad]

@DanielJUK said “I think my main one would be heartache or heart pain.”

 

I go along with that, but would also go back to what I said about twos above, the cards of (among other things) choices.  

 

If we think of this Three of Swords as a card of heartache or heart pain, but also as a three, and therefore something that follows a two, that can invite as to ask a hard question about how this pain could be the result of our own choices. 

 

That’s not a fun conversation to have with oneself, but it gives the querent more agency and opportunity to grow than saying, “Yup, you got some heartache,” or “Oh my, looks like heartache is headed your way.”

 

If we can identify how choices we make lead toward heartache (either now or in the near future), we can do something.. at the very least, learn from the poor choice.

 

So in a sense, I am re-introducing the idea of choice that @Karrma started with, but trying to locate it more precisely. We make choices (twos), and we live with the results (threes). In this case, the results are painful.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by BradGad

[fire cat pickles]

My main keyword, if you can hold a card down to one meaning which I don't advocate doing, is "Epiphany." It is the sudden realization that everything that could have gone wrong in a relationship has gone wrong.  Jealousy, from either party,  certainly could be part of this but not the only thing.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by fire cat pickles

[Chariot]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:23 AM, DanielJUK said:

 

 

Just linking it because it's a past interesting different discussion. @Chariot posted some ideas about if the card is about logic over emotion. I am not sure if I agree with that idea or not still, but it made me think....

 

 

I haven't really had the Three of Swords come  up in any reading since I saw this interpretation by Georgina Toland.  I only do readings for myself at the moment, as well as experimental ones, and haven't been doing them all that often, maybe only once a week or so.  I should be glad I haven't got that card in recent times!

However, I am ready to consider the mind-over-heart interpretation, if/when the card does turn up in one of my readings.  I'm curious to see if it fits better than 'heartbreak' and similar interpretations, which is the meaning I've always used for this card.  I do remember that sometimes 'heartbreak' seemed a bit overly dramatic for some of the readings, though.  Especially considering that Swords is not a suit that usually deals with strong emotions pertaining to 'the heart'—the way cups do.

I tend to create an 'advice' position in all my readings—so if Three of Swords turned up in that position, the new outlook on its meaning might prove very helpful.

We await developments.

[TarotSparks]

This. Choosing a one-word label for a card. As you would choose a one-word label for a person. It just doesn't encompass everything the card symbolizes. Besides, there are different contexts related to the card, the effect of a position, combinations with other cards etc. 

But, if you really just one word, I would go with heartbreak. I mean a pierced heart? What else could be the meaning... 

In addition to that it could also be breakup, grief, sorrow, and suffering. I think all these words describe this card fairly well.

[gregory]

BUT not all of them show pierced hearts.

[Chariot]

9 hours ago, gregory said:

BUT not all of them show pierced hearts.

That is absolutely true.  
 

However, I can't think  of any Swords cards that deal with happiness, joy, contentment, love, etc.  Most of them are quite cold in feeling ...detached, even. So I think the idea that the Three might represent choosing mind/logic over heart/emotion might be applicable—even if the card picture is different.  This is grief, heartbrokenness, etc, but it might not be the kind of grief that results from, say, a loved one dying, etc.  But more along the lines of, 'I've been kidding myself about that situation.  I've been letting my emotions get the better of me.  Time to get a grip.'

I'm not saying this is how it should be interpreted.  But I will certainly keep this aspect in mind when it comes up again in one of my readings.

[gregory]

Yes but not necessarily heartbreak, lost love and the rest. And so many people instantly pin that on it. (I like your "kidding myself" take ! thanks,.)

[Mister]

This is a funny topic for me, really.

 

@Karrma, what is your prefered deck in reading? That will have quiet an impact on how you read this card.

From what I have read above, I'd say the answers mainly concern themselves with 3's of swords hailing from/in alignment with the RWS-style of reading.

 

Although I do find @fire cat pickles 'epiphany' an excellent choice, for it is nicely individualistic (with a splash of humour), my own utilisation of the card in question apparently differs big time from the rest here.

 

I thought I might as well include it here, for a little perspective on the diversity in handling the cards.

 

For an easier understanding, my main is the Grimaud TdM. Also, Paul Marteau's book did have an impact for me, I like myself some originality in dealing with the cards. In regards to numerology, I do not utilise the kabbalistic base, neither do I use Marteaus - still, I feel closer to the latter.

Those two are certainly not the only ways of handling numbers.

 

Back to the Grimmy ( i.e. Grimaud TdM).

The 3 of swords is quite special in the suit, for it is the only numbered sword card (the ace is without number) which has plants as well as a sword depicted inside the amygdala (on that note, the ace is also without amygdala).

3 is 'dynamics' for me. The twigs could well be from a bay laurel.

The meaning I use is "a small victory".

For example, gaining the upper hand in a quarrel.

Winning in competition for employment.

There is a little gain included, however, said gain will not grow more by itself, something still has to be done for solidification.

Also, it can have an insulating effect, like after a quarrel.

Usually both parties (if it were two parties quarreling) need a little distance to warm up to each other again, regardless of who won the argument.

If they do warm up again.

 

That is the way said card applies for me.

It may very well differ for you.

As I reckon, I do seem to be utilising a rather excentric set of meanings when compared to what seems to be convention.

😎

[Wyrdkiss]

On 2/11/2023 at 5:40 PM, BradGad said:

I love RWS  decks, but this is also a perfect example of why I really don’t like RWS decks.

 

As @Misterei said, any card could have 10 - 12 meanings… or many more.

 

It’s just so hard to get past the negative and painful ideas that this image brings up, so viscercally. What’s it called? The “heartbreak” card?

Don't look at the Thoth three of swords then. It's titled, "Sorrow" and is quite intense.

[BradGad]

OK, I won’t. 😉 

[Misterei]

43 minutes ago, Mister said:

... In regards to numerology, I do not utilise the kabbalistic base, neither do I use Marteaus - still, I feel closer to the latter.

Those two are certainly not the only ways of handling numbers.

... 3 is 'dynamics' for me. The twigs could well be from a bay laurel.

The meaning I use is "a small victory".

For example, gaining the upper hand in a quarrel.

...

As I reckon, I do seem to be utilising a rather excentric set of meanings when compared to what seems to be convention.

Interesting take on the 3 swords card. I was always bothered that Thoth deck calls this card Saturn in Libra and Sorrow. Saturn is exalted in Libra ... so this feels like Crowley didn't really think it through. The astrology is at odds with the card title.

But yes, I read some cards differently than the "standard". For me it's 7 Swords. I read that card differently than most people.

[Mister]

25 minutes ago, Misterei said:

But yes, I read some cards differently than the "standard". For me it's 7 Swords. I read that card differently than most people.

 

It happens, does it not?

Ultimately, it is not how much one does conform to standart which brings things together, but rather how much sense some things make to you.

Or at least, that is what I feel.

 

Concerning astrology - that's my area of noobism.

I have very little affinity for it, hence, I leave it to others.

😇

[akiva]

1 hour ago, Mister said:

That is the way said card applies for me.

It may very well differ for you.

As I reckon, I do seem to be utilising a rather excentric set of meanings when compared to what seems to be convention.

😎

This is the luxury of a pip deck though! You can apply number and suit as eccentrically as you like 😁

[Mister]

Yep.

'Luxury' is a pretty ample choice of word s 

 

Makes sense? Works?

Stick to it.

🤗

[fire cat pickles]

2 hours ago, Wyrdkiss said:

Don't look at the Thoth three of swords then. It's titled, "Sorrow" and is quite intense.

Not really an apt comparison to applying one "meaning" to a card though. (We may be getting off topic here!) Crowley equated each of his pip cards to a person, a personality all on it's own. "Sorrow" is a name, not a meaning. That would be like saying your name is the sum total of your entire being and life's work all spelled out in letters. 

[Karrma]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:17 AM, akiva said:

 

I think it is very much inline with what 3 represents: "The means by" which something happens. The means by which swords operate is by seperation.

Any heart break or emotional response caused by this, is secondary to them being caused by the separation.

As for using single keywords, I advocate it to a degree, but more as a distillation of a card down to its essence. This can help you to remember the core concept of the card. What's interesting is the above keywords Waite gave in his book are basically synonyms of seperation, the core principle of this card. 😊

@akivaI don't quite understand the first sentence.  Do you mean all the 3's represent "The Means by"?  I tried to study this further and drew a blank.  My first learning of the 3's was "form" or Binah as I started with a Thoth style deck.  I clearly understand the swords as thought and separation.  I feel that the symbol of swords gets lost in some of its other meanings, and in fact I have a hard time with swords sticking into people as it triggers me.  I also think that the heart symbol used for the 3 of swords gets misrepresented as romantic love rather than a "heart of the matter" choice and so when seen only visually, people say heartbreak or jealousy.  And while the word is used on more than a few Tarot decks, including the one I am studying right now, I think it is a word than might need to be whited out on my deck (mentally, I really can't actually do that to this particular deck) 

[Wyrdkiss]

2 hours ago, Misterei said:

Interesting take on the 3 swords card. I was always bothered that Thoth deck calls this card Saturn in Libra and Sorrow. Saturn is exalted in Libra ... so this feels like Crowley didn't really think it through. The astrology is at odds with the card title.

But yes, I read some cards differently than the "standard". For me it's 7 Swords. I read that card differently than most people.

I have never considered Crowley potentially missing the mark here, that is a fascinating observation.

 

@fire cat pickles above mentioned Epiphany, which is far more in-line to me than Jealousy as a keyword.  I like Epiphany, with the added note that  it is a very heavy handed "drop" -- Crowley referred to it as the card of Weltschmerz.  That surreal, nearly existential heaviness when you realize your world had drastically changed.

 

Yet others still pointed out that one keyword does a card injustice, as spread, question, and surrounding cards all play a role.    I like keywords, however, as something to bounce from -- but otherwise I am uncertain where you saw Jealousy equating the 3 of Swords.  How do you feel now that we are discussing, @Karrma?