Removing "Negative" Cards?

[Mikhalia]

Hi all,

 

This topic keeps coming up and it just astounds me that it happens because I have a difficult time understanding the concept. Personally, all cards can be positive or negative depending on the reading.  I am honestly trying to understand why it is done. So here are my questions about this.

 

 

Do you remove cards that you consider negative from your deck?

 

If you do why do you do it?

[akiva]

I saw this topic on reddit the other day. I cant believe people do it! 😯 It probably stems from a sense of 'everything needs to be nice and happy' or toxic positivity. If people really need to do that, then doreen virtue's decks cater to that mind set quite effectively. 

 

I don't do it myself (if you couldn't already tell 😂), and haven't met anyone who has. Only seen it mentioned online. 

[Mister]

5 minutes ago, akiva said:

Only seen it mentioned online.

🤣

Same. But wait.

When reading with Majors and Aces, I basically do remove the courts and the minors, does that count?

 

On a more serious note, @Mikhalia:

Stems from fear, I suppose, at least nowadays.

Much like: Okay, if I remove all of the negative cards from the deck, then I will not attract negativity.

If that was the case, it seems pretty much bonkers to me.

Removing anxiety from ones heart should yield way more in that regard.

 

Historically speaking, there seems to have been a tendency with removing the devil from the pack.

Either for use in some kind of ritual, or as a kind of 'breaking in' the deck, sort of: "Hereby, thine claws shall not mess with mine holy divination".

And wait again.

Both is still done to this day.

[gregory]

No.

 

It wouldn't' be a tarot deck if I removed any cards. A reading would be instantly skewed by having removed some of the possibilities.  Not that ANY card is +ve or -ve.

[Grandma]

I agree with every word you say, @Mikhalia, and have more questions to ask those who do remove cards they perceive as negative - how do you expect to get an accurate reading without all the cards? What if the answer to the question is actually negative? Although it's true that the cards will always find a way to tell the truth, that way may be subtle and require a level of understanding, experience and respect for the cards that seems counter to the idea that some cards can be removed from the deck because one doesn't like their energy, or whatever the reason may be.

 

[akiva]

31 minutes ago, Mister said:

🤣

Same. But wait.

When reading with Majors and Aces, I basically do remove the courts and the minors, does that count?

Not at all! Unless you remove the devil, tower, moon and hanged man too? 😂 

 

From what I remember of the reddit post, there seemed to be this movement where people wanted to reject negativity in tarot and only wanted to bring in 'positive vibes'. So it is very much how you describe it. 👀

 

Interestingly in Sicily, they removed the devil in the 1700s and replaced it with the ship from the Minchiate deck. They actually did away with all the Christian symbolism. But they had the sense to replace what they took out...

[DanielJUK]

I sort of get it if you are showing the cards to children or something like that. But how can you get a balanced reading without those negative cards? Also I don't like thinking of the tarot cards as a binary of good or bad, they are nuanced. Sometimes those cards give you the most important message of your life!

 

I have written about it before here but there is a famous astrology blog where they select a tarot card which matches the astrology for each horoscope, weekly / monthly / yearly. They don't include Death or the Devil but don't say why! I find it really annoying. By not using those cards you are missing their energy or insight in the times they match! I would suggest that people leaving out cards are people who don't have a lot of tarot experience and it's superstition.

[AmnisArtis]

I'd feel limited with cards removed, unless the spread calls specifically for certain cards only, or a chosen card or two are singled out for focus and kept out of the deck just during the reading. I don't think I've ever seen any of the cards as strictly positive or negative, either.

 

If one wants a deck with only positive connotations, I'm sure there are oracles or perhaps themed tarot decks that could fit the bill.

[Mister]

1 hour ago, akiva said:

Unless you remove the devil, tower, moon and hanged man too?

I may be weird, but I do perceive those as majors - keep.

😂

 

Sicily rings a bell. Was it Modiano who still publishes that small deck of cards?

There is a hanged man in there, dangling from a tree with a rope round his neck.

So they did away with religion, replaced it and: Kept the warning signs!

 

1 hour ago, Grandma said:

Although it's true that the cards will always find a way to tell the truth, that way may be subtle and require a level of understanding, experience and respect for the cards that seems counter to the idea that some cards can be removed from the deck because one doesn't like their energy, or whatever the reason may be.

Woah, @Grandma !

Careful!

Chances are you may find something like the following in the coming weeks or months or so on reddit:

 

"Well, I do remove the negative cards from my deck. Actually, anyone who has MY level of understanding, experience and respect for the cards could easily do the same, because the cards will always find a way to tell the truth. And reading cards requires you to feel the subtle undercurrents in the aenergee, uthawise ya cunnut call yaself a reeeda!"

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Mister

[Grandma]

59 minutes ago, Mister said:

Woah, @Grandma !

Careful!

Chances are you may find something like the following in the coming weeks or months or so on reddit:

 

"Well, I do remove the negative cards from my deck. Actually, anyone who has MY level of understanding, experience and respect for the cards could easily do the same, because the cards will always find a way to tell the truth. And reading cards requires you to feel the subtle undercurrents in the aenergee, uthawise ya cunnut call yaself a reeeda!"

 

 

Chances are zero that I will find anything like that or like anything else anytime on reddit as long as I maintain my current status of never having gone on reddit nor having more than the vaguest understanding and absolutely no interest in even knowing what reddit is. I'm glad I read it here though. It is hilarious!

 

Oh and by the way Mister - 

 

59 minutes ago, Mister said:

I may be weird, but I do perceive those as majors - keep.

You ARE weird. Not for that reason but as exemplified by that comment. You are DEFINITELY weird. That is a DEFINITE compliment. 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Grandma

[akiva]

9 minutes ago, Mister said:

I may be weird, but I do perceive those as majors - keep.

😂

If some people had their way they'd be gone for everyone 😯

9 minutes ago, Mister said:

Sicily rings a bell. Was it Modiano who still publishes that small deck of cards?

There is a hanged man in there, dangling from a tree with a rope round his neck.

So they did away with religion, replaced it and: Kept the warning signs!

Yes that's the one! It's so enigmatic! The ship used to have "Odi profanum volgus et arceo" written on it. This can be interpreted in many ways, but basically means 'I hate the common masses and avoid them' or my personal favourite: 'I shun the vulgar crowds.'

It would make an excellent mantra for browsing the tarot subreddit. 😂

[Guest]

The Tarot cannot warn me of impending trouble, bad decision, etc. if I strip it of negative cards, so I haven't done this.

 

That said, I can see why people in an emotionally fragile state might do this. Positive/affirming oracle decks might be a better fit if they want gentle readings. 

[Mister]

1 hour ago, Grandma said:

Chances are zero that I will find anything like that or like anything else anytime on reddit as long as I maintain my current status of never having gone on reddit

*claps hands*

True that, and healthy to boot.

I went. I read. I ran.

 

1 hour ago, akiva said:

The ship used to have "Odi profanum volgus et arceo" written on it. This can be interpreted in many ways, but basically means 'I hate the common masses and avoid them' or my personal favourite: 'I shun the vulgar crowds.'

This is news. Nice news. I did not see it, because it is not there anymore. Shame.

 

30 minutes ago, Akhilleus said:

That said, I can see why people in an emotionally fragile state might do this.

Positive/affirming oracle decks might be a better fit if they want gentle readings.

Yes.

There is Doreeen Virtual, and then Hay House Publishing.

 

I am not one to suggest either to anybody, but they are there, certainly.

Going from sales, they also seem to be quiet popular.

So, perhaps, they do their job.

 

Whatever that job may be.

I'll shut it now. No rant. No fence. Applied diversity it is.

😎

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Mister said:

There is Doreeen Virtual, and then Hay House Publishing.

 

I think Mme. Virtue has completely disavowed anything Tarot- or New Age-related, and is now a Born Again Christian. Thank the heavens that we still have Radleigh Valentine! 😁

[Mister]

27 minutes ago, Akhilleus said:

I think Mme. Virtue has completely disavowed anything Tarot- or New Age-related, and is now a Born Again Christian. Thank the heavens that we still have Radleigh Valentine! 😁

I did not know~! - Doesn't come as a surprise now, does it?

 

Well, I am sure she will manage to keep her followers tuned (and her purse filled).

 

"Ratcliff Velothine" was briefly looked up - I did not know either, can you i-ma-gine~? - and surprise:

Hay House struck again.

 

Now I will really shut it!

Veering straight off-topic again, and dangerously close to the stairs leading up the fence, dammit!

 

Anyway, thanks for the interesting news on the world of the bizarre, @Akhilleus.

[Mikhalia]

Thank you all for the lively responses!!! It was not Redditt so even better to know that it is spreading and to hide from Redditt LOL My thoughts on the subject are a lot like @Grandma the cards always prevail. I even understand removing ones with religious symbols especially historically when we were much more prone to superstitious conotations, although you can just buy ones without them now.

 

This was a group of professional readers discussing removing cards they did not like in order to give clients a more "accurate" reading to ensure they keep coming back. It completely floored me and this community (which I have spent a couple of days reading through old posts) seemed pretty level-headed so I thought I would ask. I do appreciate all the input and I am glad to see plenty are still doing it with a full deck. Well except maybe @Mister (kidding!) and I would assume generally that everyone has done readings with just the majors or just the court cards. Those can be some pretty amazing readings!

[DanielJUK]

9 hours ago, Akhilleus said:

The Tarot cannot warn me of impending trouble, bad decision, etc. if I strip it of negative cards, so I haven't done this.

 

That said, I can see why people in an emotionally fragile state might do this. Positive/affirming oracle decks might be a better fit if they want gentle readings. 

 

I have used really fluffy decks in readings for people and doom and gloom messages have appeared for them, when the message wants to get through, it will! Even in the fluffiest most cuddly cards 🤣

 

I once had bad depression many years ago and I took an Angel card each day for a optimistic message. Honestly at that time I really need that. I don't personally spiritually believe in Angels but I needed those affirmations. I didn't use them for any readings though, just a daily message.

 

I know now that you can use any deck like that, just direct it in how you ask for a positive message. Tell me something good that is going to happen this week for example. Better than removing the potentially negative sources! Even Death and Devil can be positive, who doesn't need renewal in their lives to move on to a better cycle or some period of lust and fun times but in perhaps some moderation? They are all important in a way and have their place.

 

I should say plenty of people enjoy the decks, artists and websites (outside of us) mentioned here. Each to their own 🙂

[gregory]

18 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

I sort of get it if you are showing the cards to children or something like that.

 

The LAST thing you want to teach children is that everything will be OK. That's why Grimm's fairytales are so important for them, and also why the "scary" cards should stay put. Kids can take it; it's usually adults' fears that start to frighten children. One tarotista I know had shown her cards to her daughter - aged 3 at the time - who showed a remarkable ability to read them. I bought her a deck for her fourth birthday - and one remark she often made was "where's that DEATH card I like so much ?" Kids GET it. They work out their own issues through reading scary stories. And they know everything isn't sweetness and light. Adults do them a grave disservice by pretending otherwise.

 

gregory sits proudly on LARGE hobby horse and dares y'all to knock her off !

 

Oh and PS. Hay House is a LOT better now that DV isn't involved; they have brought out some decent decks lately.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by gregory

[Mikhalia]

8 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

 

I once had bad depression many years ago and I took an Angel card each day for a optimistic message. Honestly at that time I really need that. I don't personally spiritually believe in Angels but I needed those affirmations. I didn't use them for any readings though, just a daily message.

 

I have a deck I use solely for this called Moon Magick that my mother bought me. It is a fantastic little deck for affirmations or daily inspiration. 

 

If anyone is interested in it this is a link on Amazon to check them out.

 

Moon Magick

[Misterei]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:18 PM, akiva said:

From what I remember of the reddit post, there seemed to be this movement where people wanted to reject negativity in tarot and only wanted to bring in 'positive vibes'. So it is very much how you describe it.

I had to leave reddit because Death card doesn't mean Death ... it's rebirth! And it's ok to take out the bad cards. And there is no god or divine spirit ... cards are just ink and paper that are only to be used for psychology and never for predictions. *Yawn*

On 3/23/2023 at 4:28 PM, DanielJUK said:

I sort of get it if you are showing the cards to children or something like that.

I don't read for very young children ... but I've read for teens. Sometimes BAD THINGS are happening in their lives and it's easier to talk about a picture than what's really going on. If you know teens, you know what I mean. Dialoging about the card and the imagery helps them open up more than asking directly.

20 hours ago, Mikhalia said:

... It was not Redditt  ... This was a group of professional readers discussing removing cards they did not like in order to give clients a more "accurate" reading to ensure they keep coming back.

Whoa. Doesn't sound very professional at all. Two explanations I can think of.

1. If they read parties (Bachelorette parties, etc.) then they might remove negative or heavy cards ... b/c who wants to go there with a drunk girl in a 5-minute reading?
2. Straight-up scammers telling people what they want to hear. Lot of money to be made from  romantic obsessives who want to hear how their married lover will leave his wife and kids for them, or delusional damsels who think that guy who avoids them like the plague actually returns their unwanted affections. I've seriously lost clients by telling them the truth. Mostly my website filters-out this sort of client ... but occasionally one sneaks through.

10 hours ago, gregory said:

The LAST thing you want to teach children is that everything will be OK. That's why Grimm's fairytales are so important for them, and also why the "scary" cards should stay put....

Amen. Kids can go through some dark and painful experiences even in their young lives. I think there's a sort of comfort when you DON'T have to act like everything is fine. Most kids need HONESTY more than sugar coating.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Misterei

[Raggydoll]

35 minutes ago, Misterei said:

I had to leave reddit because Death card doesn't mean Death ... it's rebirth!

Omg yes, that’s one of my pet peeves 😁With cards that feel uncomfortable, some people decide to focus on hypothetical things way in the future. Like, death will eventually be a transformation and rebirth. Sure, but then maybe we should say the same with other cards. Like ace of cups is perhaps a birth which will eventually be a death? Or the lovers could be an eventual separation. NO. Let’s stay with the message of the actual card and what is in front of us. If it has Mr Reaper on it, the focus won’t be of happy new beginnings. It’s rather: time is running out - the end is near. No one is special in the eyes of Death, we all get the same treatment, etc etc 
 

[Misterei]

8 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Omg yes, that’s one of my pet peeves ...  people decide to focus on hypothetical things way in the future. Like, death will eventually be a transformation and rebirth. Sure, but then maybe we should say the same with other cards. Like ace of cups is perhaps a birth which will eventually be a death? Or the lovers could be an eventual separation.

@Raggydoll that's funny. You would have made mincemeat of those silly mama's darlings with this argument. LOVE it.

8 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

If it has Mr Reaper on it, the focus won’t be of happy new beginnings.

Great gif.

[gregory]

5 hours ago, Misterei said:

Amen. Kids can go through some dark and painful experiences even in their young lives. I think there's a sort of comfort when you DON'T have to act like everything is fine. Most kids need HONESTY more than sugar coating.

 

Not only that - they learn to try and sugar coat for others. My grandson - on the spectrum himself - dropped his iPhone in the toilet. He fished it out and didn't tell his mother till a few days later when she wondered why he didn't answer it. His response - "I thought you had  too much of a hard time already." SOMETIMES sugar coating can make a bad thing worse - as she discovered when she tried to get it running again - if he had told her at once, it would have been salvageable, said the Apple store... Better to face things and deal - even for kids.

 

5 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

Omg yes, that’s one of my pet peeves 😁With cards that feel uncomfortable, some people decide to focus on hypothetical things way in the future. Like, death will eventually be a transformation and rebirth. Sure, but then maybe we should say the same with other cards. Like ace of cups is perhaps a birth which will eventually be a death? Or the lovers could be an eventual separation. NO. Let’s stay with the message of the actual card and what is in front of us. If it has Mr Reaper on it, the focus won’t be of happy new beginnings. It’s rather: time is running out - the end is near. No one is special in the eyes of Death, we all get the same treatment, etc etc 

 

Yes indeed.

[akiva]

7 hours ago, Misterei said:

I had to leave reddit because Death card doesn't mean Death ... it's rebirth! And it's ok to take out the bad cards. And there is no god or divine spirit ... cards are just ink and paper that are only to be used for psychology and never for predictions. *Yawn*

That's just the tip of the iceberg of the tarot subreddit rabbit hole. 😅 It's an echo chamber on there.

 

It's sad that there's no magic or mystery to tarot for some of them, even if it's just done in humor or a lighthearted way. It's all so sterile and samey with no room for individuality.

 

I wish people realised that something ending and finishing is a necessary meaning in tarot. It has its place in life. It's not to be feared. Books close, chapters finish. That's part of the beauty of our existence. Nothing is truly bad until we decide it is inside our heads.

On 3/24/2023 at 7:47 AM, Mikhalia said:

This was a group of professional readers discussing removing cards they did not like in order to give clients a more "accurate" reading to ensure they keep coming back. It completely floored me and this community (which I have spent a couple of days reading through old posts) seemed pretty level-headed so I thought I would ask.

That's so surprising, and in some ways disheartening. Tarot readers can get a bad rep already, without people admitting to dishonest practices like this. Maybe the good thing is it was in older posts and not new ones? So maybe that trend is dying out 🤞

[trivialuvs]

It would be weird to use an incomplete deck. Not only spiritually incomplete, but the order would be all wrong. I like to have the cards in numbered order before I do anything with them, so that would just throw it all off! Like people above have said, ignoring the 'negative' aspects of tarot seems to be ignoring part of a message that could be important.