Conflicting opinions on the nine of swords rx?

[Cindy]

Hi all,

 

I am wondering what you think when you see the nine of swords reversed in a reading since I feel like I read many conflicting interpretations of the card so far. What has been your personal experience with the card? Below are some interpretations I have seen so far online/ in different books:

• One interpretation claims that the nine of swords rx is about nearing the end of one's restless nights, or ending a cycle that was causing someone to be anxious/depressed.
• The other claims that the nine of swords rx is about the need to confide in others about one's despair but being unable to do so. IDK how much that resonates with me as I never really associated the upright position as being about someone being open with others about their despair. The person in the card is after all crying alone in their bed at night with no one around to see them.
• Someone who is incredibly hard on themselves, cycle of negative self talk/ overanalyzing one's mistakes

[Natural Mystic Guide]

3 hours ago, Cindy said:

What has been your personal experience with the card?

Interesting...  now that I think of it, I have not had this card come up much reversed.  According to how I read cards, the Tarot Netivot system, all upright cards are positive; reversed cards represent a challenging aspect of the card; a lesson; or a heads up about an experience one might prefer to avoid.  Depending upon the question and surrounding cards, I can see the 9 Swords, Rx meaning:  insomnia; difficulty remembering dreams; anxiety and worry.

[November]

Hello, of course it always depends on the context of the reading and the position of the card. When a card is reversed, it can represent something you need to learn or solve before you could move forward in your life/situation. It's a way to draw your attention to what you need to "fix". 

 

Now, I agree the 9 Swords is not great even upright, but when it's reversed it may be saying you think your demons are stronger than you and there's no way out, probably you're not even trying to fight. 

 

This is a possible interpretation. 

[Misterei]

I see it as 9 swords upright or in certain settings as: yes, there really *is* something to worry about.

Reversed, or in some settings:  needless anxiety, A person worried about things that aren't *that* bad.

 

I do this in my own life when I catastrophize minor problems and worry about the worst-case scenario ... and then it's not bad at all! This is 9 swords reverse. When I'm worried about something REAL--a true problem that negatively impacts my life--that is 9 swords upright.

[DanielJUK]

Author's and readers have different opinions on cards, it's worth thinking about which you might relate to. I test different meanings / perspectives in my readings and work out what fits better. We have to work out our own perspective on each card.

 

For me, this reversal is almost always worse than the upright card. I've actually always seen it come up in a worse way in my readings.

With the upright 9 of Swords, someone is having sleepless nights, consumed by worries and thinking. They wake up with their head in their hands and the swords above, weighing on their thoughts. That's the RWS image and many cards are similar. He is defeated and despairing. I don't really suffer from insomnia (I do know people who have it as a real all consuming condition in their lives) but I do get sleepless nights when really worried and stressed about something. There is something about the darkness and the night, where it makes your fears worse and then you get in a cycle because you need to get sleep! Somehow in the day and morning, the fears all sink away. This is the nature of the upright version of the card, it's psychological and not real! You can also get in a cycle where you are so worrying about something, and then worrying about your excessive worrying about that. There is a dark side to humans and a dark side to life. The upright is about grounding yourself and being in reality, what is real? what can you control? what can you do to change anything personally? We spend so much of our lives worrying about things which are not even real, so this is about getting out of your head and grounding yourself. Deal with only real things, it's about getting out of the internal and into the external world, one of the few tarot cards to get out of internalising. It's about challenging negative self talk and being critical of ourselves, let's check with reality, not what we think! This is a wake-up call.

 

Then the card goes reversed, the bed is upside-down and he falls into the horizontal swords. This is a much worse situation of the first card, he could make his fears and worries real, maybe by being trapped in the cycling. This reversal is a call for action and finding objectivity. Something must be dealt with, like getting help for insomnia or anxiety, getting an objective view of a situation worrying you (why not ask a friend / loved one what they think?). The huge message of this reversal is that you cannot ignore or avoid the problem, you have to face it on, or it will just keep getting worse. This is avoiding the wake-up call of the upright. This to me is like someone having a sleep disorder due to their worries but taking sleeping pills to get through the night. It's a short-term solution to get sleep but it's not dealing with the root of the problem, so it's about facing it face on.

 

Mary Greer in her book on reversals, see's the card as an improvement, the nightmare is over. However there is a need to experience feelings and find acceptance or you cannot move on. You have to accept and feel those feelings, not deny and repress them. Waite has interesting keywords for the reversal, "Imprisonment, suspicion, doubt, reasonable fear, shame".

 

If you get the card upright or reversed, especially regularly and having sleep problems, I really recommand making a diary / journal of your dreams or nightmares. Write them down when you wake up and analysis them, they can provide important messages. You can find dream meanings easily using google, look at the symbols that come up. I am really into dream interpretations but it's very related to this card where you are stuck in your head with your thoughts.

[Cindy]

15 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

Author's and readers have different opinions on cards, it's worth thinking about which you might relate to. I test different meanings / perspectives in my readings and work out what fits better. We have to work out our own perspective on each card.

 

For me, this reversal is almost always worse than the upright card. I've actually always seen it come up in a worse way in my readings.

With the upright 9 of Swords, someone is having sleepless nights, consumed by worries and thinking. They wake up with their head in their hands and the swords above, weighing on their thoughts. That's the RWS image and many cards are similar. He is defeated and despairing. I don't really suffer from insomnia (I do know people who have it as a real all consuming condition in their lives) but I do get sleepless nights when really worried and stressed about something. There is something about the darkness and the night, where it makes your fears worse and then you get in a cycle because you need to get sleep! Somehow in the day and morning, the fears all sink away. This is the nature of the upright version of the card, it's psychological and not real! You can also get in a cycle where you are so worrying about something, and then worrying about your excessive worrying about that. There is a dark side to humans and a dark side to life. The upright is about grounding yourself and being in reality, what is real? what can you control? what can you do to change anything personally? We spend so much of our lives worrying about things which are not even real, so this is about getting out of your head and grounding yourself. Deal with only real things, it's about getting out of the internal and into the external world, one of the few tarot cards to get out of internalising. It's about challenging negative self talk and being critical of ourselves, let's check with reality, not what we think! This is a wake-up call.

 

Then the card goes reversed, the bed is upside-down and he falls into the horizontal swords. This is a much worse situation of the first card, he could make his fears and worries real, maybe by being trapped in the cycling. This reversal is a call for action and finding objectivity. Something must be dealt with, like getting help for insomnia or anxiety, getting an objective view of a situation worrying you (why not ask a friend / loved one what they think?). The huge message of this reversal is that you cannot ignore or avoid the problem, you have to face it on, or it will just keep getting worse. This is avoiding the wake-up call of the upright. This to me is like someone having a sleep disorder due to their worries but taking sleeping pills to get through the night. It's a short-term solution to get sleep but it's not dealing with the root of the problem, so it's about facing it face on.

 

Mary Greer in her book on reversals, see's the card as an improvement, the nightmare is over. However there is a need to experience feelings and find acceptance or you cannot move on. You have to accept and feel those feelings, not deny and repress them. Waite has interesting keywords for the reversal, "Imprisonment, suspicion, doubt, reasonable fear, shame".

 

If you get the card upright or reversed, especially regularly and having sleep problems, I really recommand making a diary / journal of your dreams or nightmares. Write them down when you wake up and analysis them, they can provide important messages. You can find dream meanings easily using google, look at the symbols that come up. I am really into dream interpretations but it's very related to this card where you are stuck in your head with your thoughts.

Hi @DanielJUK

 

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! As I become more comfortable with the cards, I am journalling and reflecting on what resonates the most with me and the meaning of the cards depending on context within a larger spread. I think I definitely resonate the most with the interpretation of the card being most about a denial or refusal to do needed shadow work which is actually making the seeker's situation worse. I think this definitely ties with your interpretation of the card as it being worse in the reversed position as the person in the card is falling into the swords, I hadn't considered the imagery in the reverse in that way before!

[Cindy]

On 7/13/2024 at 9:06 AM, Misterei said:

I see it as 9 swords upright or in certain settings as: yes, there really *is* something to worry about.

Reversed, or in some settings:  needless anxiety, A person worried about things that aren't *that* bad.

 

I do this in my own life when I catastrophize minor problems and worry about the worst-case scenario ... and then it's not bad at all! This is 9 swords reverse. When I'm worried about something REAL--a true problem that negatively impacts my life--that is 9 swords upright.

Thank you for sharing! It is definitely helpful to keep this interpretation in mind especially if I draw the card as representing my own life/emotions!

[Cindy]

On 7/13/2024 at 5:47 AM, November said:

Hello, of course it always depends on the context of the reading and the position of the card. When a card is reversed, it can represent something you need to learn or solve before you could move forward in your life/situation. It's a way to draw your attention to what you need to "fix". 

 

Now, I agree the 9 Swords is not great even upright, but when it's reversed it may be saying you think your demons are stronger than you and there's no way out, probably you're not even trying to fight. 

 

This is a possible interpretation. 

I can totally see this. The demons have more strength because the seeker is refusing to do necessary shadow work or open up to others about their own feelings- causing restless nights and anxiety that they endure by themselves

[Cindy]

On 7/12/2024 at 11:39 PM, Natural Mystic Guide said:

Interesting...  now that I think of it, I have not had this card come up much reversed.  According to how I read cards, the Tarot Netivot system, all upright cards are positive; reversed cards represent a challenging aspect of the card; a lesson; or a heads up about an experience one might prefer to avoid.  Depending upon the question and surrounding cards, I can see the 9 Swords, Rx meaning:  insomnia; difficulty remembering dreams; anxiety and worry.

Thank you for sharing how you interpet cards based on the netivot system, I hadn't heard of it before. I definitely resonate with your reversed interpretation

[Chariot]

I read reversed cards as the absence or opposite of the upright meaning ...but still in the context of the upright meaning.

For example, the reversed 9 of Swords would never mean 'happy-go-lucky' for me, because the context of worry and sleepless nights is still there.  For me, it just means things aren't as bad as I thought they would be, or I've survived them and am feeling better now.   It's a relief to me, when this card appears reversed.

Seeing a reversed card as an intensified meaning of the upright card doesn't feel right to me. The energy of an upright card is strong, but it gets weakened when it's reversed.  It's harder to engage with an image that's upside down, isn't it?  There is a more vague impression of the image, when it's reversed.  So for me that means the reversed version is now faded, or not as definite as it would be upright—or is the opposite of the upright meaning.  Or perhaps the upright meaning is missing—but maybe needed?  In context, of course.  (You needed a strong father figure in your life, but you never had one?  Reversed Emperor...etc.)

The good thing about this way of dealing with reversals is that it evens out the positive/negative vibes in a 78-card deck.   Each reversal softens or negates the upright version ...whether the upright is positive or not.  The card's position in the spread tells me how to interpret the card in each instance.

Edited July 15, 2024 by Chariot

[Scandinavianhermit]

I read the reversed Nine of Swords as "reasonable mistrust" and "ruin". I don't remember Etteilla's original keywords, but the ones I use are derived from Etteilla's school of interpretation.

 

I read the upright Nine of Swords as signifying a religious official or a monastic, plus an encouragement to listen to one's conscience.

[Cindy]

On 7/15/2024 at 1:30 AM, Chariot said:

I read reversed cards as the absence or opposite of the upright meaning ...but still in the context of the upright meaning.

For example, the reversed 9 of Swords would never mean 'happy-go-lucky' for me, because the context of worry and sleepless nights is still there.  For me, it just means things aren't as bad as I thought they would be, or I've survived them and am feeling better now.   It's a relief to me, when this card appears reversed.

Seeing a reversed card as an intensified meaning of the upright card doesn't feel right to me. The energy of an upright card is strong, but it gets weakened when it's reversed.  It's harder to engage with an image that's upside down, isn't it?  There is a more vague impression of the image, when it's reversed.  So for me that means the reversed version is now faded, or not as definite as it would be upright—or is the opposite of the upright meaning.  Or perhaps the upright meaning is missing—but maybe needed?  In context, of course.  (You needed a strong father figure in your life, but you never had one?  Reversed Emperor...etc.)

The good thing about this way of dealing with reversals is that it evens out the positive/negative vibes in a 78-card deck.   Each reversal softens or negates the upright version ...whether the upright is positive or not.  The card's position in the spread tells me how to interpret the card in each instance.

Thank you, I appreciate your advice on dealing with reversals! I think the reversal can indicate both a softening of the original meaning as you discussed or alternatively mean  there is too much of that energy (this of course would be influenced by the remaining cards in the spread). I definitely think that thinking of a reversal as the energy that is needed is really helpful. In regards to the nine of swords rx, what would be needed is true reflection and processing of those shadow feelings.