McFaire Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Wanderer said: Yet again, it shows that it actually doesn't matter what system we use, or even if we use a seasonal system at all... but if we do, it needs to be one that works for us personally, and makes sense to us. The personalisation of meaning in Tarot is one of its most fascinating aspects... does anyone use a flexible system, where it changes according to intuition on the day? If my intuition was leading me a certain way on a particular day, I would try to choose the deck that corresponded with that. I agree, it doesn't matter which system you use--as long as you understand how a particular deck was constructed. So for me, if I needed to use seasons for a specific reason (for example, timing), I wouldn't try to use a different system with, say, the Greenwood than the one that was built into the deck, because I think it came from a far more sophisticated source than my pea brain, and it works. If I tried to use, say, the DruidCraft system with the Greenwood deck, I think the results would be unclear (or nonsensical or even misleading) because the deck is very purposefully designed and built on a seasonal structure which is fully integrated into the imagery and meanings. Directions and seasons tend to be important for ritual, and/or if you need specific information about location, for example, of a lost item, or about the energies in your home, or timing. So in cases like that, I think it would matter to match the deck and the system. With the same reasoning, if a particular deck wasn't designed with directional-seasonal patterns woven into it, then I probably wouldn't use it for those types of purposes and instead would choose a deck that was designed to speak that language.
2curious Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) I'm not sure how it relates to tarot, but according to the signs of the zodiac, the seasons are marked by the cardinal signs for that season and those correspond to an equinox or a solstice. For example, HERE in Coastal Georgia, northern hemisphere, Spring began March 20 (cardinal Aries - vernal equinox - Fire/Wands), Summer began 3 days ago (cardinal Cancer - summer solstice - Water/Cups ), fall will begin Sept. 23 at 3:50 am (cardinal Libra - autumnal equinox - Air/Swords) and winter will begin December 21 at 11:19 pm (cardinal Capricorn - winter solstice - Earth/Pents). It would, I think, be the opposite for the southern hemisphere, with slightly different "exact" timing for the day it actually falls on. However, a full season encompasses more than just the one sign... Edited June 24, 2019 by 2curious added suits
2curious Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) On 6/22/2019 at 11:28 PM, Rose Lalonde said: The image @McFaire posted from the GD is what I go by for a card's relationship to the seasons. It shows up in Crowley's writings about the Thoth. For example, he says of the 3 of Wands, "It refers to the Sun in Aries... The meaning is harmonious, for this is the beginning of Spring." Not that anyone has to agree with Crowley! I'm just saying I do. But that means for the minors, one suit doesn't represent an entire season to me... start of a new season Fire/Aries/Spring 2, 3 and 4 of Wands Water/Cancer/Summer 2, 3, and 4 of Cups Air/Libra/Autumn 2, 3, and 4 of Swords Earth/Capricorn/Winter 2, 3, and 4 of Pentacles mid season Fire/Leo/Summer 5, 6, and 7 of Wands Water/Scorpio/Autumn 5, 6, and 7 of Cups Air/Aquarius/Winter 5, 6, and 7 of Swords Earth/Taurus/Spring 5, 6, and 7 of Pentacles ending of a season Fire/Sagittarius/Autumn for the 8, 9, and 10 of Wands Water/Pisces/Winter for the 8, 9, and 10 of Cups Air/Gemini/Spring for the 8, 9, and 10 of Swords Earth/Virgo/Summer for the 8, 9, and 10 of Pentacles That's the same as the image above really. The seasons are heavily involved, and so is which part of the season we're talking about symbolically -- I'm thinking of things like the vast difference between the beginning of summer break as a kid when it seemed we had forever off, and then the end of summer when we were buying school supplies. 🙂 The "start of a new season" are all cardinal signs, the "mid-season" are all fixed signs, and the "ending of the season" are all mutable signs. Cardinal initiate, fixed maintain and mutable prepares the season for change - "ending" the season. At least this is my understanding of it. Edited June 25, 2019 by 2curious
Rose Lalonde Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, 2curious said: The "start of a new season" are all cardinal signs, the "mid-season" are all fixed signs, and the "ending of the season" are all mutable signs. Cardinal initiate, fixed maintain and mutable prepares the season for change - "ending" the season. At least this is my understanding of it. Yes, cardinal 2,3,4 fixed 5,6,7 and mutable 8,9,10. 🙂
blackandthemoon Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 I follow the Astrology (this is the northern hemisphere). Cups - Summer initiated by the first day of Cardinal Water Sign: Cancer Swords - Autumn initiated by the first day of Cardinal Air Sign: Libra Pentacles - Winter initiated by the first day of Cardinal Earth Sign: Capricorn Wands - Spring initiated by the first day of Cardinal Fire Sign: Aries
Barleywine Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 28 minutes ago, blackandthemoon said: I follow the Astrology (this is the northern hemisphere). Cups - Summer initiated by the first day of Cardinal Water Sign: Cancer Swords - Autumn initiated by the first day of Cardinal Air Sign: Libra Pentacles - Winter initiated by the first day of Cardinal Earth Sign: Capricorn Wands - Spring initiated by the first day of Cardinal Fire Sign: Aries I do the same thing. I also think there are sound elemental reasons for it. Fire represents the burgeoning life-force of Spring (Waite and Smith showed it in the leafy Wands) Water shows the moderation and fulfillment of that urge in Summer Air is volatile and transitional as maturity slides toward decay in Autumn Earth is retentive and depicts conservation as the energy withdraws and is reabsorbed in Winter
blackandthemoon Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Barleywine said: I do the same thing. I also think there are sound elemental reasons for it. Fire represents the burgeoning life-force of Spring (Waite and Smith showed it in the leafy Wands) Water shows the moderation and fulfillment of that urge in Summer Air is volatile and transitional as maturity slides toward decay in Autumn Earth is retentive and depicts conservation as the energy withdraws and is reabsorbed in Winter Totally agree!
McFaire Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) I think it's helpful to consider how a particular deck was constructed by its creators and to view the seasonal and directional associations in the context of that deck. Edited June 26, 2019 by McFaire
Barleywine Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 1 minute ago, McFaire said: I think it's helpful to consider how a particular deck was constructed by its creators and to view the seasonal and directional associations in the context of that deck. I tend to subsume any unique creative impulses the creators may have entertained under my broader and deeper understanding of all things tarot (at most, I "take them under advisement" unless and until proven worthy). That means I ignore things like swapping the suits and elements around. I almost never read a LWB. It's not arrogance, I'm just taking the long view of things. A deck is only a tool, and I bend it to my own purposes as needed.
McFaire Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, Barleywine said: I tend to subsume any unique creative impulses the creators may have entertained under my broader and deeper understanding of all things tarot Hmmm that's quite a statement
Barleywine Posted June 26, 2019 Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, McFaire said: Hmmm that's quite a statement When there's something truly new under the Sun (the Chrysalis Tarot is a good example) it tends to read more as an oracle than a tarot deck (which Chrysalis does very well, I might add). Something like the Voyager Tarot straddles the line. James Wanless told me it's mainly Thoth-based, but it takes a bit of a stretch to see it. I have all of his study material and it's certainly thought-provoking, but it's pretty far from the mainstream. (I believe Dr. Wanless wrote one of the Thoth LWBs a long time ago.) Edited June 26, 2019 by Barleywine
RavenOfSummer Posted July 7, 2019 Author Posted July 7, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 12:59 PM, McFaire said: I think it's helpful to consider how a particular deck was constructed by its creators and to view the seasonal and directional associations in the context of that deck. I agree. A big part of the draw of working with different decks for me is seeing things through the eyes of the creator's vision. On 6/26/2019 at 1:13 PM, Barleywine said: I tend to subsume any unique creative impulses the creators may have entertained under my broader and deeper understanding of all things tarot (at most, I "take them under advisement" unless and until proven worthy). That means I ignore things like swapping the suits and elements around. I almost never read a LWB. It's not arrogance, I'm just taking the long view of things. A deck is only a tool, and I bend it to my own purposes as needed. On 6/26/2019 at 2:01 PM, Barleywine said: When there's something truly new under the Sun (the Chrysalis Tarot is a good example) it tends to read more as an oracle than a tarot deck (which Chrysalis does very well, I might add). Something like the Voyager Tarot straddles the line. James Wanless told me it's mainly Thoth-based, but it takes a bit of a stretch to see it. I have all of his study material and it's certainly thought-provoking, but it's pretty far from the mainstream. (I believe Dr. Wanless wrote one of the Thoth LWBs a long time ago.) I think it's a bit dismissive to refer to these decisions as impulses. I think in many cases they are very well thought out, and indeed very much tarot. Some of the decks named above, like the Prisma Visions and Tarot of Trees, definitely read as tarot and not as oracle, at least in my opinion. They just take a different perspective on certain aspects.
RavenOfSummer Posted July 7, 2019 Author Posted July 7, 2019 On 6/26/2019 at 8:27 AM, blackandthemoon said: I follow the Astrology (this is the northern hemisphere). Cups - Summer initiated by the first day of Cardinal Water Sign: Cancer Swords - Autumn initiated by the first day of Cardinal Air Sign: Libra Pentacles - Winter initiated by the first day of Cardinal Earth Sign: Capricorn Wands - Spring initiated by the first day of Cardinal Fire Sign: Aries Ahh, I imagine this is where the creator of the Tarot of Trees draws her inspiration! Thanks for that 🙂
McFaire Posted July 7, 2019 Posted July 7, 2019 3 hours ago, RavenOfSummer said: I think in many cases they are very well thought out, and indeed very much tarot. Yes, and in some cases, visionary. True bridges.
RavenOfSummer Posted July 9, 2019 Author Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) On 7/7/2019 at 12:33 AM, McFaire said: Yes, and in some cases, visionary. True bridges. Agree with this as well 😊 Edited July 9, 2019 by RavenOfSummer
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