Why Does The Sword Suit Instigate So Much Conversation?

[alyce]

The theme is harsh truths. Sometimes hard to see, and often hard to bear, especially when young. So it takes some extra processing to synthesise their meanings for yourself, compared to the other suits.

[Eric13]

c@alyce There is a sharp edge to the reality Swords bring.

@Raggydoll I know what you meant. Just making conversation. The reality of the overconfident man loosing caused him to breakdown. I fixed the name. For some reason when you mentioned books, I thought of hers. I know your experiences are emblematic of a fine reader with experience. 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Eric said:

Yes but in the beginning of Waites book he does distinctly say that his divinations are not to be the sole expression of the cards.

Would you care to cite the exact quote? It sounds like he was talking about meditation. The Dawn was into meditating on the cards, projecting into them, etc. (Which is quite different from projecting meanings on them.)

Quote

He makes it clear to think creatively and metaphorically. There's many ways to interpret all the cards. There is an essence, and I get that. But it also depends on the sitter and the spread. Also, it specifically doesn't say, whose degradation, whose disdain and so on. 

The RWS is GD based. So is the Thoth. Whatever one thinks of Crowley, he did us the favor of spilling the beans, so to speak.
In the Thoth, this card is called "Defeat" and it corresponds to Geburah: change, destruction and disintegration.

Edited August 19, 2019 by katrinka
typo

[alyce]

57 minutes ago, Eric said:

c@alyce There is a sharp edge to the reality Swords bring.

Ah, I didn't mean to refer to "you" in particular. When I say "yourself" I mean that in a general, nebulous sense. Sorry if I caused offence. But yes, it's true, the sharpness is part of what makes the Swords, well, the Swords.

[Eric13]

[Eric13]

Theres some Waite speak up in the preface also.

Who else feels instigated.

[katrinka]

5 hours ago, Eric said:

That's just his purple prose way of saying that the cards are memory-joggers, and intuition may also come into play. Not "divinations are not to be the sole expression of the cards. He makes it clear to think creatively and metaphorically."
He may well have said things to that effect, but they're not in the excerpt you posted.

Also: "feel instigated"? What are you talking about?

Edited August 19, 2019 by katrinka

[katrinka]

8 hours ago, Eric said:

 in the 7 of Swords we find we have pleasure in the uniqueness of our own philosophy in life and ideas guiding us through differing social conditionsBreaking through any philosophical conditioning. I mean, that same smile is on the 7 of Swords, a number representing experience. 

Wait, this was a mistake, right?

[Raggydoll]

4 hours ago, Eric said:

Theres some Waite speak up in the preface also.

Who else feels instigated.

I don't think anyone is instigated here, there's just a difference in how we interpret things. As for that quote, I find that he is saying that in theory, if a card trigger scenes from our memory then we can try and utilize those past experiences as a filter to understanding and interpreting that card. He's making it very clear that its not something he straight up recommends, and he is not guaranteeing that it will provide accurate or meaningful readings. He is merely presenting it as a possible option to studying card meanings or using your intuition (He is even repeating his "ex hypothesi" twice, to emphasize that 😁) Personally, I try very hard to not project my own experiences and opinions onto the cards. To a certain degree, yes, we will all have a filter in which we view things. But my experience has showed me that a reading tends to be more accurate when you try your best to detach your physical/mundane self from it. This is beside the point though, because if you have found that your way of interpreting cards give you really accurate readings then that is what works for you. I am merely talking about my own experiences here!

 

Oh, and while I am already going off topic, I thought I could share something else that I find to be of importance here. When Waite talks about memory and "the records of findings in the past" I think its helpful to know a bit about the synchronicities between his writings and those of C.G Jung. In several of his texts, Waite was basically describing the collective unconscious before CG Ljung even had launched that very definition. I also want to say that I did not come to these conclusions myself. It was Mary K Greer who, from a lifelong study of both Waite and Ljung, made the connections and she has mentioned it in her seminars (which I highly recommend. There are several of them available on global spiritual studies. I have attended almost all of them). Anyway, here are two quotes to show you what I mean:

 

C. G Ljung: "Archetypes are latent potentialities of the human psyche - a vast store of ancestral knowledge about the profound relations between God, man and cosmos" (from The Psychology of CG Ljung)

 

Waite: "The tarot embodies symbolical presentations of universal ideas, behind which lie all the implicits of the human mind... [they contain] truths imbedded in the consciousness of all" (Pictorial Key to Tarot)

 

So I think (and this is absolutely just my personal limited understanding) that the reason why Waite chose to emphasize "in theory/ex hypothesi" twice when it comes to interpreting cards based on past experiences, is that he was unsure whether a person would always be able to tap into those deeply embedded truths or if they would get stuck in the more superficial layers of their own messy life experiences.  

And to get back to the actual topic. I think that the reason why the sword suit is seen as such a hard and potentially triggering suit is because it is the suit of the mind. Even those that depicted or described the card meanings in the first place had a filter where they generally saw more 'negative' connotations to the swords suit. To some extent it is surely true and it represents the way the mind works and how it manifests in our lives. Pamela clearly did not invent the pierced heart of the 3 of swords, nor did she make up the depiction on the 7 of swords (those were both inspired by the sola-busca). But the 5 of swords that she depicted is very different from that of the sola-busca, so I am thinking that the golden dawn was part of why the swords suit became more charged and 'difficult'. And they used their assigned astrological correspondences as a basis for that. As was already pointed out, to them it is the card of defeat. But compare that with the sola-busca and tell me if you get the same feeling of smirking winners and overconfident losers. 

 

 

[Marigold]

59 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

 

And to get back to the actual topic. I think that the reason why the sword suit is seen as such a hard and potentially triggering suit is because it is the suit of the mind.

 

Yes, this. You've summed it all up in five words I think. 

[ilweran]

4 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

Personally, I try very hard to not project my own experiences and opinions onto the cards. To a certain degree, yes, we will all have a filter in which we view things. But my experience has showed me that a reading tends to be more accurate when you try your best to detach your physical/mundane self from it.

For me, I've found it depends on what I'm doing and which deck I'm using.

 

As far as the suit of swords go, I like them. Never had a problem with them, but I've mainly had good experiences with them - oddly perhaps considering their reputation 🤔

[Eric13]

Absolutely fascinating how a thread on the suit of swords unfolded. Than you to everyone who has posted. Again, to reiterate, this is about the suit of swords. Not necessarily from a particular deck. The suit obviously stimulates the mind.