Sybil - Arthur E. Waite's daughter

[Raggydoll]

11 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

On March 10, 1889, Sybil Waite was baptised Ada Sybil Waite. Her date of birth was 22 October 1888. Her death was registered in Dover in July, 1980.  Sybil was her middle-name. 

There doesn’t seem to be any records of marriage for Sybil.
 

I have a vague recollection that Stuart Kaplan acquired her copy of the Waite-Smith - I cannot remember who told me. It could have been someone at TABI.

 

With regards to a perspective marriage, It might be worth checking the headstone for the family plot. 
 

Thanks. I think it was sometime in the 90s that I heard that Waite had no living relatives. 

[Marigold]

14 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

On March 10, 1889, Sybil Waite was baptised Ada Sybil Waite. Her date of birth was 22 October 1888. Her death was registered in Dover in July, 1980.  Sybil was her middle-name. 

There doesn’t seem to be any records of marriage for Sybil.
 

I have a vague recollection that Stuart Kaplan acquired her copy of the Waite-Smith - I cannot remember who told me. It could have been someone at TABI.

 

With regards to a perspective marriage, It might be worth checking the headstone for the family plot. 

Thanks so much for the scan of that birth registry. Where did you find it ? She didn't die so long ago (lived a long life she did!) There must be people who still remember her.

 

Kaplan would have the money and the connections to find out more about her and even commission a book about her. I'm sure it would be very interesting. He must have a lot of information that he keeps to himself. He should be more open if he knows stuff. The RWS doesn't belong to him and his money-making machine. It belongs to the world - one cannot own the Tarot.

 

II'm really curious about this woman. And if she was buried somewhere (not everyone gets buried - some people have their ashes mixed up with other people in memorial gardens and vanish without trace.)

 

 

[gregory]

Well, I asked Kaplan. But the guy is 87; I don't know how active he is any more. So I asked Mary as well.

 

@Marigold lots of such registers are available on ancestry and other such sites. (I'll see if Mr Gregory would have time to look after the grandson leaves...)

 

ETA there is no marriage record there for her. I'll try for a grave...

 

 

Can't find a grave for her, but A E is buried on his own:

 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/24995221/arthur-edward-waite

 

Her will is in the probate registry; I shall have to wait for Mr G for that, as you have to be a paid member to look . But it is under her maiden name; I am guessing she never married.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by gregory

[PathWalker]

The Ancestry link will show you only the Probate entry - which can also be accessed via the Probate site itself. . .

 

So it says she died on 15 September 1980. In a nursing home in Deal. Probate was handled at the Brighton office. Then there's a folio number (which is needed to request a copy of the will or documents  electronically delivered). No mention of executor or solicitors in the register entry.

 

This DOESN'T necessarily mean she left a will. There may only be a document that grants the power for someone to dispose (in a legal framework) of her monies if she left no will. This would be "a grant of letters of administration" All that does is name a person, possibly a solicitor or family member, and the amount of money involved.

 

But whatever the document is, will or letters of administration, you can only see it by application to the Probate office.

 

Hope that helps.

PathWalker

Edited December 29, 2019 by PathWalker
too sleepy to spell my own name

[PathWalker]

17 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

POLITELY SNIPPED   On March 10, 1889, Sybil Waite was baptised Ada Sybil Waite. Her date of birth was 22 October 1888. Her death was registered in Dover in July, 1980.  Sybil was her middle-name. 

 

The other thing to mention - in relation to my post about Probate - is that there is a small flaw in the trail here.

 

In order to know for sure that the person who died in 1980 with the same name, is the person who was born in 1889 and that you are searching for, is to have an copy of the death certificate.

 

This would show information confirming or denying what you believe to be true,i.e age at death, spinster or married, that kind of thing, and which cannot been seen without a certificate in hand. This information cannot be seen online it must be ordered; registers are not open to the public.

 

You can order a copy of the certificate online, there is a cost involved. It is best and cheapest done via the actual government site designed for this:

https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

 

Without the certificate you are making an assumption, and such assumptions can be wrong, and lead you down the wrong path completely. So whilst it looks likely, I would check properly if you were truly interested, and if you ever wished to publish your research for example.

[PathWalker]

Anyone who would like to search for alternative death details - in case there was more than one woman with that name - can see register index details at this free site

 

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

 

a legitimate site, created by family history volunteers, and with a very good search engine.

It can search also for births and marriages. This is England and Wales and between the dates 1837-1992

Might be useful for other folks?

 

PW

Edited December 29, 2019 by PathWalker

[gregory]

Actually if you are a paid up member of ancestry you can SEE the death certificate on screen and take a screenshot. He does that for most of the ones he wants to see.

The ones he takes screenies of are from Northern Ireland.

 

I can't believe that there were that many Ada Sybil M Waites out there, though !

Edited December 29, 2019 by gregory

[Guest]

Deleted -  not interested.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Guest

[Raggydoll]

https://www.geni.com/people/Ada-Waite/6000000045396696035

 

[Raggydoll]

If you click that link it says she also had a stepmother so Waite must have remarried 

[Raggydoll]

More links

 

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/48325/page/13731/data.pdf

 

Scroll down 

 

Clearly registers Sybil as a spinster

 

 

His second marriage:

 

[gregory]

29 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

If you click that link it says she also had a stepmother so Waite must have remarried 

He did indeed. Mary Broadbent Schofield. At some point after Lucasta died in 1924.

 

Oops I was ninjaed.

Edited December 29, 2019 by gregory

[Raggydoll]

7 minutes ago, gregory said:

He did indeed. Mary Broadbent Schofield. At some point after Lucasta died in 1924.

 

Oops I was ninjaed.

 

(That outfit is way better than sunscreen lotion I tell ya!)

[PathWalker]

@leroidetrèfle  I didn't mean to cause offense or seem rude, I do apologise. I just wanted to point out to folks that is it possible to make a step-error there, when you get so excited to see the name you are looking for that you forget there may be another with similar details, and you need to check the documents to confirm.  I did not mean to imply that your information was incorrect. I apologise.

 

@gregory Thank you for clarifying that Gregory - NI , and Scotland, do have different processes to England and Wales I think.

 

Hope folks enjoy their researching, if they go ahead with it.

 

Best wishes

PathWalker - who sticks with family history research

[Guest]

Hi @PathWalker

 

Please do not apologise; antibiotics and chest-infection just made me grumpy.

 

Your words and advice were quite correct. For disclosure I do private research. What you warned against is something I do see quite a lot. 

 

With regards to Sybil Waite I am confident that the record I posted was her. Her name is not unique; however the combination of forename and middle names is distinctive.
 

Her death certificate is not something I have seen - as I’m neither family nor actively researching so I don’t feel comfortable looking. Of course, we can if it was needed. 
 

I do remember being told that Stuart Kaplan acquired Sybil’s own copy. I don’t know who told me. 

[gregory]

Well as I say - I have emailed him.....

[gregory]

An old post from AT suggests that he was using her deck when he put out the USG one:

 

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1826184&postcount=26 

 

Also on AT Cerulean says that 

 

Quote

I won a standard Rider Waite Smith tarot copyright 1971 version that U.S. Games had published, this version being the one in AE Waite's family collection. Stuart Kaplan's company paid Miss Sybil Waite and Rider & Co. in London to reissue this deck. My version on the LWB, box and cards say copyright 1971.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by gregory

[Guest]

It might have been Cerulean that I was thinking of. 
 

I’ve gone through Marcus Katz’s book on the Smith-Waite tarot and there is no information on Sybil. I do not recall her being mentioned in the Abiding in the Sanctuary.  

[gregory]

I'll go and dig up Jensen's book.

[Raggydoll]

Considering how serious and private Waite was regarding his occult commitments, then I think it’s reasonable to assume that he probably didn’t chatter much about his family life either. I think he must likely didn’t think it would be of interest to anyone or that it was anyone’s business. But that’s just my highly speculative hypothesis 🙂

[gregory]

No but where Kaplan got his deck fascinates me.

[Guest]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:10 PM, gregory said:

No but where Kaplan got his deck fascinates me.

Yes. My curiosity has been piqued. 

[gregory]

Jensen suggests Sybil LENT him the deck....

[Guest]

That is interesting. I wonder if he acquired it after death? He definitely had a Pam A. 
 

The Smith Waite tarot is quite fascinating in the twists and turns of its history.

[gregory]

Yeah - and remember the e-bay auction where he and LoScarabeo fought to the death over I forget which one - it's a crackle back in a red box; I've met it, but I forget which Pam it is.