Prophetic tarot VS healing tarot. Your thoughts on this?

January 30, 2020

2 hours ago, devin said:

I hope you know this was one of my ill-aimed jokes. You're a trooper. (That being said, I do fear for civilisation.)

You make JOKES ? Who knew.... :rofl:

1 hour ago, devin said:

So maybe the split is more between internally and externally focused readers? Divination of the self vs. divination of the world. I dunno.

I get that. I actually GET that.

January 30, 2020

Just now, gregory said:

You make JOKES ? Who knew....

I get that. I actually GET that.

Of course you do. Gregory has big brain. Raggydoll has highly mediocre, caffeine dependent brain. 😩

January 31, 2020

12 hours ago, gregory said:

You make JOKES ? Who knew....

🙂

13 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I’m thinking I need more coffee to understand what you just said

I could write clearly. But then I'd have to know what I was talking about.

13 hours ago, Wanderer said:

But yes, I think that's pretty much what I was saying as well. Maybe.

Yes, clarity.

On 1/29/2020 at 11:18 AM, iofthebeholder said:

if i client came back and said "your prediction was wrong" i would most likely tell them predicting the future is not an easy thing to do and that i'm sorry my interpretation didn't prove accurate to what actually happened.

Tell them you where right but in another timeline. People actual do this, apparently. Whether or not anyone buys it, that's another story.

On 1/29/2020 at 5:28 AM, xTheHermitx said:

I always, always try to remind them that if they don't have some kind of belief in powers greater than them

Bro, you don't have to have any spiritual or religious beliefs to see that there are DEFINITELY powers greater than the human in operation - oceans, winds, climate, stars, solar systems, black holes, etc.

January 31, 2020

Ok so I'm reading through this thread some more, and I suddenly had a bit of insight or... I think I finally broke through something I have't been able to get right with my view of the Tarot. I've been having trouble jumping into this because my question has been "What am I using this FOR?" And I think @theholysticvagabond will be able to relate to me on this, because I'm coming from a place where I want to help people in ways that will be ummm... beneficial to their sense of self and over all well being. I'm a spiritual person and I am so all about love and spreading it to the best of my ablity, that I'm wanting to do something of that nature with Tarot or... that's where my head is at. I just truly want to HELP.

I think it's easy for me to get a little confused when we start talking about "fortune telling" and I think of just "predicting the future" because I think "What if the person is better off not knowing?" Or it feels like it's more... (I'm having trouble thinking of the appropriate word)... I can't think of it but just... like it's not necessarily going to be beneficial in the "spiritual" way I'm motivated to wanting to help. And so then I start thinking "well how can I do this more holistically, in a way that will be more like that".

I think it's the back and forth between these types of feelings or ways of looking at the Tarot that keeps pulling me and twisting me, and I think I just suddenly grasped what Katrinka and others have been kind of helping me to see without me being able to SEE IT. I think it's more like this.

We as human beings for whatever reason just HAVE foresight. It's a gift we all have but very few of us actually know how to use. The card reader has merely found a medium through which they can have that foresight on command and then they share it with others in return for some compensation so they can live too. If it's going to be something spiritual, that needs to be because the card reader makes it clear that it is spiritual foresight they'd like to specialize in. But if someone wants to give you relationship foresight cause they're comfortable with that so be it. The foresight has no morality in and of itself, it's neutral. It's literally like a pair of binoculars, you could use them to get a better view of a bird you've never seen or you could use it to peep through lady's windows, the tool is neutral, it just gives you the sight.

And I guess that's what Tarot is, now the nature of what is foresight exactly and how far can we take it, I have no clue, but for me personally... I think I just... finally saw or... grasped a truth about Tarot I've been having trouble with. Because every time I say "I want to help people and see them have breakthroughs" yadda yadda, I'm hit with "then you should be a therapist that's not what Tarot is for", and I GET why they say that now. The cards aren't gonna be somebody's therapist, they're gonna work more like a view finder or something that gives you the ability to peer around the bend. So someone like me needs to understand first what the cards can show me, work with them until I find my personal way of sensing the messages that come through, and then it's up to me to decide how to use that in my own personal way, and if any of the spiritually helpful things I'm talking about are meant to happen it would probably just be because of my desire and what I bring to the table as a person, I doubt many rules would need to be set in place nor do I need to try and turn this into "Tarot therapy", it's gonna mirror back what I am putting out and if that's "I love this person and want to help them" that's gonna be in the mix.

Alright I THINK I explained myself pretty well, you guys let me know if any of the above sounds off but I think I'm finally starting to better grasp what card reading is and what one does with it. Definitely makes me feel more ready to bust my cards out again and see what happens...

January 31, 2020

4 hours ago, Symph said:

And I guess that's what Tarot is, now the nature of what is foresight exactly and how far can we take it, I have no clue, but for me personally... I think I just... finally saw or... grasped a truth about Tarot I've been having trouble with. Because every time I say "I want to help people and see them have breakthroughs" yadda yadda, I'm hit with "then you should be a therapist that's not what Tarot is for", and I GET why they say that now. The cards aren't gonna be somebody's therapist, they're gonna work more like a view finder or something that gives you the ability to peer around the bend. So someone like me needs to understand first what the cards can show me, work with them until I find my personal way of sensing the messages that come through, and then it's up to me to decide how to use that in my own personal way, and if any of the spiritually helpful things I'm talking about are meant to happen it would probably just be because of my desire and what I bring to the table as a person, I doubt many rules would need to be set in place nor do I need to try and turn this into "Tarot therapy", it's gonna mirror back what I am putting out and if that's "I love this person and want to help them" that's gonna be in the mix.

@Symph I totally agree with the neutrality of the foresight.

About that quoted part, I'm not totally sure I got what you wanted to say, but I want to explain how I see the "tarot therapy". And especially when I do reading for others.

Because many people don't know what is tarot at all, by saying I do therapeutic tarot, I just want to open a door in them.

I want to let them know that I'm able to give them space to analyse their situation, take a step back, and be guided in the process.

I want to let them know because maybe it's something they never thought about when they thought of tarot.

I did a tarot reading to the father of one of my friend. He's a skeptical and doesn't trust in predictions. However, after one hour of reading and discussing, he was like "It felt so good to talk about it." And he had a smile after this the entire evening.

Do I think I'm a therapist? no. Did I "fix" him? no.

I just give people the space to think in a relaxing environment. What about if they're not interesting in that? I'm ok too!

I can do other types of reading. Just answering them what I see in the card without trying to push them to analyze.

You're right about "the desire" part. It's not the card that push you to heal. It's not the tarot reader. It is you wanting to try to heal. The tarot reader is just here to give you an opportunity, if you'd like, to try.

Maybe the difference between you and me is that in my case, I know clearly what tarot can bring to me.

I'm very comfortable with reading my own cards. I do predictions and self-help. Sometimes I don't use at all the self-help part.

I start to doubt only when I read for others, as I don't know what people are really looking for. And I'm not enough arrogant to say "ok here i have the tool to heal you, try my method you need it".

But at least, I want to let them know there is a way to do tarot that might lead to self-development. And it worths a try.

January 31, 2020

Someone once said to me that tarot is a mirror that lets you see the parts of yourself that you can't see without one.

January 31, 2020

7 hours ago, Symph said:

The card reader has merely found a medium through which they can have that foresight on command and then they share it with others in return for some compensation so they can live too. If it's going to be something spiritual, that needs to be because the card reader makes it clear that it is spiritual foresight they'd like to specialize in. But if someone wants to give you relationship foresight cause they're comfortable with that so be it. The foresight has no morality in and of itself, it's neutral. It's literally like a pair of binoculars, you could use them to get a better view of a bird you've never seen or you could use it to peep through lady's windows, the tool is neutral, it just gives you the sight.

Yes, pretty much that. It's more a matter of what the client wants to know (most of us get tons of relationship questions, and we answer those, but we generally don't bill ourselves as "relationship readers". ) But the foresight and the cards are like binoculars. Just a tool.

7 hours ago, Symph said:

The cards aren't gonna be somebody's therapist, they're gonna work more like a view finder or something that gives you the ability to peer around the bend.

I'm reminded of those toy periscopes us kids used to play with, the ones with the little slanted mirrors inside that let you see around corners. 😁

7 hours ago, Symph said:

and then it's up to me to decide how to use that in my own personal way, and if any of the spiritually helpful things I'm talking about are meant to happen it would probably just be because of my desire and what I bring to the table as a person, I doubt many rules would need to be set in place nor do I need to try and turn this into "Tarot therapy", it's gonna mirror back what I am putting out and if that's "I love this person and want to help them" that's gonna be in the mix.

Yep. We are who we are, and if we're basically good people, that's going to come through.
If you're generally helpful, the reading will be helpful.
Card reading ethics are the same as regular ethics.

2 hours ago, gregory said:

Someone once said to me that tarot is a mirror that lets you see the parts of yourself that you can't see without one.

I just got a mental image of someone doing that with a mirror...🤣🤣🤣

January 31, 2020

5 hours ago, theholysticvagabond said:

@Symph I totally agree with the neutrality of the foresight.

About that quoted part, I'm not totally sure I got what you wanted to say, but I want to explain how I see the "tarot therapy". And especially when I do reading for others.

Because many people don't know what is tarot at all, by saying I do therapeutic tarot, I just want to open a door in them.

I want to let them know that I'm able to give them space to analyse their situation, take a step back, and be guided in the process.

I want to let them know because maybe it's something they never thought about when they thought of tarot.

I did a tarot reading to the father of one of my friend. He's a skeptical and doesn't trust in predictions. However, after one hour of reading and discussing, he was like "It felt so good to talk about it." And he had a smile after this the entire evening.

Do I think I'm a therapist? no. Did I "fix" him? no.

I just give people the space to think in a relaxing environment. What about if they're not interesting in that? I'm ok too!

I can do other types of reading. Just answering them what I see in the card without trying to push them to analyze.

You're right about "the desire" part. It's not the card that push you to heal. It's not the tarot reader. It is you wanting to try to heal. The tarot reader is just here to give you an opportunity, if you'd like, to try.

Maybe the difference between you and me is that in my case, I know clearly what tarot can bring to me.

I'm very comfortable with reading my own cards. I do predictions and self-help. Sometimes I don't use at all the self-help part.

I start to doubt only when I read for others, as I don't know what people are really looking for. And I'm not enough arrogant to say "ok here i have the tool to heal you, try my method you need it".

But at least, I want to let them know there is a way to do tarot that might lead to self-development. And it worths a try.

I think you and I want to do this very much in the same way, I had a very powerful reading experience with a close friend of my wife's, I made a forum post about it, he was talking about it weeks later it literally became sort of the... motivational way of looking at things he carried with him, I doubt he'll ever forget that reading to be honest. But it does sound like you have been able to trust it more than I have, but a lot of that for me was because of religious ideas that were putting a kind of... ominous shadow over this like "But why are the christians so afraid of it if it's not dangerous???" And I think that underlying fear caused me to have a lot of doubts and questions "could I hurt someone? Could I cause them to be afflicted by a demon?? What if the christians know something I don't!!"

However I have thoroughly looked into that, and it's just not true, the average person who thinks this is evil is coming from a complete place of ignorance, usually they just heard a pastor say "The good book says that sorcerers will burn in the lake of fiah! So all who read Tarot worship the devil!!" And it's totally baseless, and they know nothing about it. I had to stop being a part of a group that judge things without looking into them... Ok that's kind of a tangent... sorry

But yeah I have never stopped believing I could do this the way I want to, I've just always been met with a bit of opposition to my ideas (especially when you use that word "therapy", people get images of you actually practicing therapy without a license which turns into a whole different type of discussion lol) But for me it makes perfect sense and with my little "aha" moment last night I think I get now how it can be done. Through the Tarot I have the power of insight/foresight, I can view things from angles the average person can't see. It's up to me now to think of how to use that in a way that will fit my goals, and I honestly think the best way to do that is to not overly plan it but literally ask the cards and the universe to show ME how best to do it.

So yeah anyway, I think your way of viewing the Tarot is right on, and I guess that's how I wanna do it too. I'll use the cards to give the insight the person is looking for, and through that maybe some uplifting conversations will transpire that can really help them to view their life or situations in a more healthy way. Just don't "advise".... or the Tarot police'll GETCHA!!

3 hours ago, katrinka said:

Yes, pretty much that. It's more a matter of what the client wants to know (most of us get tons of relationship questions, and we answer those, but we generally don't bill ourselves as "relationship readers". ) But the foresight and the cards are like binoculars. Just a tool.

I'm reminded of those toy periscopes us kids used to play with, the ones with the little slanted mirrors inside that let you see around corners. 😁

Yes the periscope is like EXACTLY what I was thinking of haha except this one can go years into the future, hot damn what a toy! 🤣

February 1, 2020

20 hours ago, Symph said:

I think you and I want to do this very much in the same way, I had a very powerful reading experience with a close friend of my wife's, I made a forum post about it, he was talking about it weeks later it literally became sort of the... motivational way of looking at things he carried with him, I doubt he'll ever forget that reading to be honest. But it does sound like you have been able to trust it more than I have, but a lot of that for me was because of religious ideas that were putting a kind of... ominous shadow over this like "But why are the christians so afraid of it if it's not dangerous???" And I think that underlying fear caused me to have a lot of doubts and questions "could I hurt someone? Could I cause them to be afflicted by a demon?? What if the christians know something I don't!!"

However I have thoroughly looked into that, and it's just not true, the average person who thinks this is evil is coming from a complete place of ignorance, usually they just heard a pastor say "The good book says that sorcerers will burn in the lake of fiah! So all who read Tarot worship the devil!!" And it's totally baseless, and they know nothing about it. I had to stop being a part of a group that judge things without looking into them... Ok that's kind of a tangent... sorry

But yeah I have never stopped believing I could do this the way I want to, I've just always been met with a bit of opposition to my ideas (especially when you use that word "therapy", people get images of you actually practicing therapy without a license which turns into a whole different type of discussion lol) But for me it makes perfect sense and with my little "aha" moment last night I think I get now how it can be done. Through the Tarot I have the power of insight/foresight, I can view things from angles the average person can't see. It's up to me now to think of how to use that in a way that will fit my goals, and I honestly think the best way to do that is to not overly plan it but literally ask the cards and the universe to show ME how best to do it.

So yeah anyway, I think your way of viewing the Tarot is right on, and I guess that's how I wanna do it too. I'll use the cards to give the insight the person is looking for, and through that maybe some uplifting conversations will transpire that can really help them to view their life or situations in a more healthy way. Just don't "advise".... or the Tarot police'll GETCHA!!

Yes the periscope is like EXACTLY what I was thinking of haha except this one can go years into the future, hot damn what a toy!  🤣

@Symph This is an amazing experience that you had with your friend ! 💗

Regarding the religious aspect, it is something that I can't relate as I grew up in a totally secular environment. But I can understand the difficulty to be immersed in a place where everyone think in a way you don't agree with. Just the fact that you just don't follow things because people tell you to do so and just questioning it to find your own way is amazing. A lot of people would not be able to do this.

"It's up to me now to think of how to use that in a way that will fit my goals, and I honestly think the best way to do that is to not overly plan it but literally ask the cards and the universe to show ME how best to do it. "

YES, exactly ! 🙂

"Just don't "advise".... or the Tarot police'll GETCHA!! "

I'm a rebel @Symph, plus a Capricorn. I'm stubborn. 😎😂🤘

February 1, 2020

53 minutes ago, theholysticvagabond said:

@Symph

I'm a rebel @Symph, plus a Capricorn. I'm stubborn. 😎😂🤘

Oh snap! We've got a live one!!

February 1, 2020

6 hours ago, theholysticvagabond said:

Regarding the religious aspect, it is something that I can't relate as I grew up in a totally secular environment. But I can understand the difficulty to be immersed in a place where everyone think in a way you don't agree with. Just the fact that you just don't follow things because people tell you to do so and just questioning it to find your own way is amazing. A lot of people would not be able to do this.

I think all of us were immersed in a place like that, to some extent. It's just a matter of degree.
Religion doesn't have to be "Because God said so!" There are religious people who will puzzle over why the Bible (for instance) says not to do this or that, and decide for themselves if it's relevant to people living in our own times. They might also question whether God actually said something, or whether the story is allegorical.

The same thing can be at play in a secular environment. If you ever questioned your dad on why he wouldn't let you do something and he just said "Because I'm your father and I said so!", you're hitting the same brick wall. It's a common logical fallacy called an appeal to authority.

And there's all kinds of false narratives that people get fed by others in authority. Racism gets perpetuated that way.

But evangelicals use the appeal to authority a LOT. What I find curious is that a lot of them take the word of their pastor and never even read the Bible. R. Crumb remarked that when he illustrated The Book of Genesis, people were outraged at things like Lot's daughters getting him drunk and seducing him, lol. But all he did was illustrate the text AS IS.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is either a person is curious, or they aren't. And when curious people end up in a non-curious environment, they generally have to break away. People like Symph get a lot of extra breaking away to do, though. Yikes.

Edited February 1, 2020 by katrinka

February 1, 2020

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

I think all of us were immersed in a place like that, to some extent. It's just a matter of degree.
Religion doesn't have to be "Because God said so!" There are religious people who will puzzle over why the Bible (for instance) says not to do this or that, and decide for themselves if it's relevant to people living in our own times. They might also question whether God actually said something, or whether the story is allegorical.

The same thing can be at play in a secular environment. If you ever questioned your dad on why he wouldn't let you do something and he just said "Because I'm your father and I said so!", you're hitting the same brick wall. It's a common logical fallacy called an appeal to authority.

And there's all kinds of false narratives that people get fed by others in authority. Racism gets perpetuated that way.

But evangelicals use the appeal to authority a LOT. What I find curious is that a lot of them take the word of their pastor and never even read the Bible. R. Crumb remarked that when he illustrated The Book of Genesis, people were outraged at things like Lot's daughters getting him drunk and seducing him, lol. But all he did was illustrate the text AS IS.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is either a person is curious, or they aren't. And when curious people end up in a non-curious environment, they generally have to break away. People like Symph get a lot of extra breaking away to do, though. Yikes.

Yeah it's not easy, even when you know fully well you have logically seen through the fallacies of a belief, if that belief goes all the way back to when you could first understand language and concepts, it's like it's wedged further down in your psyche than you can even reach or perceive. Being able to finally look at the bible through my OWN perspective, and actually asking "Does this sound like something God would say, or something a controlling authority would say..." Being able to finally do that has been soooo liberating, but for much of my life it never even occurred to me that you COULD do that! I was convinced I either "believe the whole bible or I'm against the whole bible!"

I can see how crazy these beliefs must look to those who have never been indoctrinated to that degree, but it's almost like these fears or... concepts are wedged into the nervous system. So my head and conscious can have all the breakthroughs they want, but when a certain idea is put in front of me my actual BODY will react in fear. It's as engrained as me learning that "fire is hot". It's getting THAT out of my system that's been the hardest. I feel I'm at the home stretch though I really do....

Edited February 1, 2020 by Symph

February 1, 2020

6 minutes ago, Symph said:

I can see how crazy these beliefs must look to those who have never been indoctrinated to that degree

Back in the 80's, I lived close to an evangelical church and I noticed what expensive cars filled the parking lot every Sunday. NO primer, rust spots, dents, bald tires, nothing more than a few years old, lots of the more expensive makes and models, everything spotless and shiney. It was surreal. And these were the known crazies, the people who fell on the floor and all of that. How does a crazy person manage to make that kind of money? So I took it upon myself to go visit a few times.

I found my answer: they're clannish AF and the ones in good positions get the other ones in. You really had to stick with it to get someone to do that for you, though. I couldn't take more than a few visits. It's ALL indoctrination. Every sermon was focused on making people believe that the silliest little things would open the door for Satan to come in and wreck your life, and, by extension, the lives of your family: do NOT go see this or that movie, do NOT listen to secular music, etc. It was all about making the congregation afraid of everything that wasn't part of THAT church. Even the Dalai Lama was going to hell if he didn't convert.

And there was the whole Calvinist God-as-ATM schtick: donate and it's bread on the water, you get your money back tenfold. And they promised that anything you asked in Jesus' name would be granted. There was a couple there whose baby had died recently. I felt bad for them, because they'd surely asked that the baby recover in Jesus' name, but he died anyway, and they couldn't say anything for fear of being ostracized. I got the feeling that if they'd lost their little social circle from that church, they would have no one. (In cases like that, it's best to start over from scratch, but they obviously weren't ready to take that step.)

The final straw was when I came in and saw a table set up in the lobby. There was a guy there with pamphlets about an upcoming election, saying that Christians must vote for the "pro life" candidate. Nothing about the economy, foreign policy, the environment, or any other issue. The "pro life" guy could be John Wayne Gacy or Vlad the Impaler, and they'd still tell people to vote for him.

February 2, 2020

39 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Back in the 80's, I lived close to an evangelical church and I noticed what expensive cars filled the parking lot every Sunday. NO primer, rust spots, dents, bald tires, nothing more than a few years old, lots of the more expensive makes and models, everything spotless and shiney. It was surreal. And these were the known crazies, the people who fell on the floor and all of that. How does a crazy person manage to make that kind of money? So I took it upon myself to go visit a few times.

I found my answer: they're clannish AF and the ones in good positions get the other ones in. You really had to stick with it to get someone to do that for you, though. I couldn't take more than a few visits. It's ALL indoctrination. Every sermon was focused on making people believe that the silliest little things would open the door for Satan to come in and wreck your life, and, by extension, the lives of your family: do NOT go see this or that movie, do NOT listen to secular music, etc. It was all about making the congregation afraid of everything that wasn't part of THAT church. Even the Dalai Lama was going to hell if he didn't convert.

And there was the whole Calvinist God-as-ATM schtick: donate and it's bread on the water, you get your money back tenfold. And they promised that anything you asked in Jesus' name would be granted. There was a couple there whose baby had died recently. I felt bad for them, because they'd surely asked that the baby recover in Jesus' name, but he died anyway, and they couldn't say anything for fear of being ostracized. I got the feeling that if they'd lost their little social circle from that church, they would have no one. (In cases like that, it's best to start over from scratch, but they obviously weren't ready to take that step.)

The final straw was when I came in and saw a table set up in the lobby. There was a guy there with pamphlets about an upcoming election, saying that Christians must vote for the "pro life" candidate. Nothing about the economy, foreign policy, the environment, or any other issue. The "pro life" guy could be John Wayne Gacy or Vlad the Impaler, and they'd still tell people to vote for him.

Thanks for sharing that, I relate a bit to being brought up that way. I know I went through periods where my parents had me go through all the clothes and items I owned and look for anything that could be causing "demonic oppression" which meant yin yangs, pictures of dragons, my magic the gathering cards, all that got burned. And my parents had the BEST intentions, they were fully just trying to protect me from danger. I think one of the hardest pills for me to swallow was when I realized my whole life I'd been so judgemental of say muslims and how I believed they were indoctrinated, or jehovah's witnesses "they believe crazy things like Jesus is the angel Michael!" Only to FINALLY see that "wait... I'm just as brainwashed and have beliefs that are just as crazy" it suddenly seemed so obvious, yet I'd gone about 32 years unable to see this.

But yeah, didn't mean to turn this into a religious discussion AGAIN. (I even annoy myself sometimes) I am going to make an effort soon to break away from this topic, it was just very intensely affecting my ability to read Tarot for a while, which made it the subject that kept coming up for me. I hope soon I can move passed it so fully that I can start just discussing Tarot and Occult things and making jokes like I want to lol

February 2, 2020

On 1/31/2020 at 1:14 AM, devin said:

🙂

Bro, you don't have to have any spiritual or religious beliefs to see that there are DEFINITELY powers greater than the human in operation - oceans, winds, climate, stars, solar systems, black holes, etc.

and the sad thing is that I think more people don't see this evidence of greater powers...

February 2, 2020

17 hours ago, katrinka said:

They might also question whether God actually said something ...

February 2, 2020

17 hours ago, katrinka said:

I think all of us were immersed in a place like that, to some extent. It's just a matter of degree.
Religion doesn't have to be "Because God said so!" There are religious people who will puzzle over why the Bible (for instance) says not to do this or that, and decide for themselves if it's relevant to people living in our own times. They might also question whether God actually said something, or whether the story is allegorical.

The same thing can be at play in a secular environment. If you ever questioned your dad on why he wouldn't let you do something and he just said "Because I'm your father and I said so!", you're hitting the same brick wall. It's a common logical fallacy called an appeal to authority.

And there's all kinds of false narratives that people get fed by others in authority. Racism gets perpetuated that way.

But evangelicals use the appeal to authority a LOT. What I find curious is that a lot of them take the word of their pastor and never even read the Bible. R. Crumb remarked that when he illustrated The Book of Genesis, people were outraged at things like Lot's daughters getting him drunk and seducing him, lol. But all he did was illustrate the text AS IS.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is either a person is curious, or they aren't. And when curious people end up in a non-curious environment, they generally have to break away. People like Symph get a lot of extra breaking away to do, though. Yikes.

@katrinka Exactly!

February 2, 2020

I know for me, I had to figure what "God" is for me, before I could really start trying to understand the texts and writing. And it took me a long time to figure out what god is, but it only took me a few years to figure out what god wasn't for me. And I really didn't use any of the texts and dogma to figure out what god is...I mostly used observation of what other people were doing (or not) in that same journey.

Once I figured out what god was to me, the texts/writings/dogma made much more sense...or more often than not, did NOT make more sense!!

Having to learn about Tarot, and especially the RWS and Thoth systems were part of that journey because it led me to studying Qabbalah, which led me to studying Judaism more ,as well as Gnosticism, Thelema, Golden Dawn etc...

February 3, 2020

19 hours ago, devin said:

Um...try telling her to "dust and obey".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Kali_by_Raja_Ravi_Varma.jpg

February 3, 2020

8 hours ago, katrinka said:

Um...try telling her to "dust and obey".
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Kali_by_Raja_Ravi_Varma.jpg

Jai jai Kali Ma!

February 7, 2020

Great discussion! I was just having a conversation with a friend about this same thing yesterday. I view the way I use Tarot as more on the psychological side, when reading for others or myself. But in doing that I look at my spread as a snapshot in time with potential outcomes based on how things are at the moment of the reading. As she pointed out, that is in itself predictive in nature and allows me or who I am reading for to make choices now to affect that outcome or leave it alone if we like it. I have done reading that did include predictions but I did it with an oracle deck and it all came to pass. I have to admit I was astonished and quite pleased to see.

@Symph, I actually showed my therapist my Tarot journal and explained to him how I used the cards in reading for myself, and as he read through it he told me to keep doing it because it was excellent self therapy! That mirror that @gregoryreferenced. When reading for myself I really focus on advice type questions or introspection, but when reading for others I may help them rephrase their question for clarity and to ensure that the cards will relate to what they are really wanting to know. I think the foundation truly lies in having a clear question, and the cards aid our power of foresight during the reading. I also agree with you in that who we are or want to offer as readers does come through in the way we deliver the message.

February 7, 2020

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but I'll just dive in here. You're always predicting the future because anything not of this moment is either past or future. If you "give advice" what you're doing is saying "if you do (or don't) do this, then thus will be the result. That's future. That's predicting.

February 7, 2020

49 minutes ago, Jewel said:

Great discussion! I was just having a conversation with a friend about this same thing yesterday. I view the way I use Tarot as more on the psychological side, when reading for others or myself. But in doing that I look at my spread as a snapshot in time with potential outcomes based on how things are at the moment of the reading. As she pointed out, that is in itself predictive in nature and allows me or who I am reading for to make choices now to affect that outcome or leave it alone if we like it. I have done reading that did include predictions but I did it with an oracle deck and it all came to pass. I have to admit I was astonished and quite pleased to see.

Exactly.

February 7, 2020

My approach to reading tarot is that I am neither healer nor prophet, both of which I consider to be loaded terms. I am a card reader and a fortuneteller. Yes, I use tarot cards quite intentionally to "see the future," but at the same time I strongly believe that the future isn't set in stone.

I'll offer an analogy of sorts. At the institution where I work, it's been the subject of recent discussion that, according to a lot of data, in 6 years we expect a drop in enrollment due to changing demographics. Put simply, we're using data to predict the future. But there's immense power in knowing what's to come -- because 6 years is a long time! It's plenty of time to form plans and to take action to change the outcome. Can we change the demographics? No. But can we change our approach to recruiting students? Absolutely!

So we're facing a "negative" prediction, but it empowers us to enact positive change and thereby change the outcome.

Tarot can work the same way. I might do a reading and see financial problems in my own future, for instance, but knowing is half the battle, so the old saying goes. If I see a problem ahead, I can start saving extra money now, for example. I think looking into the future gives us the power to make decisions about our lives, rather than waiting for life to happen to us. 🙂

February 8, 2020

20 hours ago, Annabelle said:

My approach to reading tarot is that I am neither healer nor prophet, both of which I consider to be loaded terms. I am a card reader and a fortuneteller. Yes, I use tarot cards quite intentionally to "see the future," but at the same time I strongly believe that the future isn't set in stone.

I'll offer an analogy of sorts. At the institution where I work, it's been the subject of recent discussion that, according to a lot of data, in 6 years we expect a drop in enrollment due to changing demographics. Put simply, we're using data to predict the future. But there's immense power in knowing what's to come -- because 6 years is a long time! It's plenty of time to form plans and to take action to change the outcome. Can we change the demographics? No. But can we change our approach to recruiting students? Absolutely!

So we're facing a "negative" prediction, but it empowers us to enact positive change and thereby change the outcome.

Tarot can work the same way. I might do a reading and see financial problems in my own future, for instance, but knowing is half the battle, so the old saying goes. If I see a problem ahead, I can start saving extra money now, for example. I think looking into the future gives us the power to make decisions about our lives, rather than waiting for life to happen to us. 🙂

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

While the tarot can be a tool to look inside yourself, I don't feel it's any of my business doing that to anyone but me. I am not a counselor or therapist. However, reading the predictive, doesn't mean you believe the future is unchangeable. Exactly as @Annabelle has said, being forewarned is being forearmed. It allows you to make changes if you don't like where things are heading.

Prophetic tarot VS healing tarot. Your thoughts on this?

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