@reall this last post of yours is a very attractive deck. Thanks for sharing!

You are welcome! it's my fav so far!🥰

The Bohemian cards which were due to be published this year seem late. At Baba studio they don't speak much about their deck lately (they likely prioritize other projects), and I took a look at Berti's Etsy shop and his 2 decks which seemed to be Bohemian cards (catalog 2021) aren't released yet.

I think I'll stay with my Zigeuner Wahrsagekarten, it is nice, and I have too the Hungarian version (Cigany Kartya), what else!

Yes, the site still says pre-orders for the Baba decks will open in 2021. There isn't much left of the year, it could be a bit behind schedule.
https://baba-store.com/blogs/news-thoughts-ideas-the-bababarock-blog/162779

 

I haven't heard a peep out of Berti.

@Decan Karen mentioned these may be available next year as I presume priority is current VR & considering all shipping & all other delays hat down to everyone who manage to deliver Anything in these crazy times!:)

 

personally i think selfpublishing is great challenge and effort & totally wort waiting for bit longer!:)

On 5/16/2020 at 7:43 AM, Decan said:

Hi guys,

I open this thread on the Gypsy Cards (Zigeuner Wahrsagekarten) because I decided to study them a bit (it was a temptation for a while!)

There is another deck named "Gypsy cards" by Lo Scarabeo but it is actually a version of the Sibilla Italiana, not this one.

 

This one is a 36 cards deck, I don't know its history but it developed in central Europe where it seems still widely used.

It is not a Lenormand!

 

Below a pic of the whole deck (in this version, because it doesn't seem the only version for this deck!).

Baba studio is working on a version of this deck, so people will be more interested in this deck/system in the future I think.

 

Do you have an ISBN for this?

I ask because I can not find it anywhere.

@Sar have a read through some of the posts on the first page, @reall goes through many different decks of this deck type and the pros / cons of them.

It seems like this particular cartomantic tradition evolved from a nameless 36 card fortune telling deck printed by Industrie Comptoir in Leipzig c. 1818, originally including German suite marks. The 32 card deck is an abbreviation, the 52 card deck an extension.

 

https://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot/cartomancy-oracle-and-divination-cards/austrian-cartomancy-decks

On 1/4/2024 at 3:27 AM, Sar said:

Do you have an ISBN for this?

I ask because I can not find it anywhere.

 

For the Piatnik green box with Cupid that you quoted, the available ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 seem to be 3898756092 and 978-3898756099, respectively. 

2 hours ago, Akhilleus said:

 

For the Piatnik green box with Cupid that you quoted, the available ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 seem to be 3898756092 and 978-3898756099, respectively. 

Ahh, thank you for answering my question so fast. 

You're welcome, and may you find your deck. 

On 5/17/2020 at 7:15 PM, katrinka said:

I have those. I actually passed my Zigueners on (between the 50's pulp comics art style and the racial stuff with the name, I wasn't using them much) but kept the Biedermeier and the Art Deco.

Good news!

 

The printing I bought very recently, in order to compare this particular type of 36 card deck with the Lenormand type of 36 card deck, has changed its name to Traditionelle Wahrsagekarten, which is a step demonstrating both a good sense of taste and common decency. Buyers familiar with the dated name will recognise the box, I'm sure. 

On 10/10/2021 at 3:13 PM, reall said:

Happy to share my review for another cartomancy gem I was happy to find in my fav EU Tarot Shop recently!:)

*il vostro destino by Masenghini combine wahrsage meaning printed in italian on each card & lenormand & sibbila style with playing card insert!:) Note: there is odd symbol on playing cards inserts i was wondering what may be until at closer look it resamble naked lady flying on winged orb?:) lol

it's full 52 playing card Bridge size deck with 4 classic suits: hearts spades diamonds clover representing different areas of life &

court cards deck F-Jack, Dama=Queen & Rei=King represent people!:) whimsy cartoony illustrations full of details are my fav!(: see pic attached!:)

cards are printed on plasticky cardstock similar to Piatnik wahrsage that shuffle well & have that sshwush I like!:)

there is also extra blank card & folded instruction in Italian that gives bare basic intro & suit meaning as well as few spreads all in classic tuckbox!^^

I will share some serious readings later but for now i think this may be my fav Pasians aka Solitaire deck as well!^^ lol

p.s luv this back design as well!:) it seems to be reversable that would indicate this deck use reversals as well?:)

if anyone know about these cards meaning post please!:)

Now, this is gorgeous, I want it.

 

I'm beginning to suspect, that the Traditionelle Wahrsagekarten deck is descended from a cartomancy method from Saxony (Sachsen), the former electorate and kingdom, now state, in the east of present Germany.* 'Ordinary' playing cards from Saxony used to depict the dramatic scene from the 'Jealousy' card on Daus of Bells (counterintuitively, an Ace with two suite marks, borrowing the word Deuce from French deux) long before Piatnik decided to design the Traditionelle Wahrsagekarten in their present shape.** I will take a closer look at this, which may take some time. 

 

* I'm not referring to the very large duchy, which existed in the dark ages and up to the high middle ages. For politicial reasons, that one was divided into many feudal units located in what is now Niedersachsen/Lower Saxony, Sachsen-Anhalt/Saxony Anhalt and Sachsen/Saxony. The label "Saxony" has wandered around on the map over time. If Germans decided to name the present State of Saxony 'Obersachsen' (Upper Saxony), we clueless foreigners would understand geography better. The Saxons who settled in England during the collapse of the Roman Empire presumably came from what is now coastal Lower Saxony, thus the term 'Anglo-Saxon', but the linguists says, that English is most closely related to Frisian.

 

** I believe Piatnik updated the look of this type of deck at least in the early 1920s and the early 1960s, but I shall take closer look at that, too.

Had to Share this Amazing deck I’ve 1^st seen few days ago on fb thanks to Alexandra Miron here is full post & photos provided with her permission:

“Happy Sunday with Tea and Fortune Telling Cards

Deck: Cartomanzia NAVALDE (Sibilla Italiana type)

Date: ca. 1910 (or slightly later; lacking tax stamp)

Extent: 90 cards (missing 5)

Provenance: Property of P. Barelli, Corso Venezia 15, Milan

One of the most breathtaking decks has finally joined my collection, a treasure that kept me awake with anticipation long before its arrival, a full month past its expected date!

Crafted at the height of the Art Nouveau movement, its sinuous, elegant lines perfectly capture the ethereal aesthetic of the era.

Pietro Barelli (Rovenna 1818 – Milan 1880/1890) was a prominent Milanese print dealer and publisher. Born on February 14, 1818, to Pietro Barelli and Tommasa Bianchi, he had four children with his wife, Maria Teresa Pin: Napoleone (1844–1905), Federico (1847), Letizia (1848)—all born in Cremona—and a fourth child born in Milan in 1862.

Firm History and Locations

Founded in Milan in 1844, the Pietro Barelli firm initially specialized in designs, woodblocks, and cutting tools for fretwork (l’arte del traforo). The firm’s ongoing commitment to artistic pastimes is well-documented through its illustrated trade catalogues, including Arte e Diletto (1904), a general catalogue (1906), and Lavori e divertimenti artistici (1910). Between 1882 and 1910, the company earned numerous gold medals at national and international exhibitions for its fretwork patterns.

Sometime after 1894, Barelli acquired the Arturo Fumel firm (est. 1830). By April 1920, invoice letterheads show the business was managed by Luigi Russi Barelli (1872–1944).

The publisher’s address evolved alongside its expansion:

Pre-1879: Galleria De Cristoforis No. 8

1879: Galleria De Cristoforis Nos. 4–7

1906: Via Passerella No. 6

1906 onwards: Corso Venezia 15–23

Publishing, Photography, and Matrix Controversy

Beyond craft supplies, Barelli was an active print publisher. A significant collection of his fine art prints (published through at least 1878) is preserved in Milan at the Raccolta delle Stampe Achille Bertarelli. He also produced portrait photography, including an 1862 portrait of Garibaldi stamped on the reverse with his Galleria No. 8 mark.

The firm acquired the historic Soliani family woodblock collection alongside roughly 140 16th- and 17th-century wood matrices of unknown provenance. In 1887, Pietro’s son Napoleone sold these matrices to Adolfo Venturi for the Galleria Estense in Modena. Documents in the Bertarelli collection—including annotated trial impressions by Pietro Barelli—reveal controversial intentions: Barelli contemplated pulling modern restrikes (such as a 1617 Domenico Campagnola woodcut) framed to resemble original period impressions.

The Soliani woodblocks saw several reprintings over the century:

1828: Compiled into 7 volumes (Incisioni in legno...).

1864: Reissued as a trade catalogue for printers (Catalogo generale...).

1906–1913: A limited run of 10 deluxe copies commissioned by the Ministry of Public Instruction.

Barelli’s collector stamp—notably found on the reverse of a 1655 Robert Nanteuil engraving of Cardinal Mazarin—remains a distinctive mark, though the full scope of prints bearing his stamp is still unknown today.

Bibliography

Modena 1986: I legni incisi della Galleria Estense. Quattro secoli di stampa nell'Italia Settentrionale, Modena.

Milano, A. (1986): “La falsificazione dei legni,” in Modena 1986, pp. 31–33.

Milan 1988: I legni incisi della Galleria Estense a Milano nel 50° anniversario della morte di Achille Bertarelli (1938–1988), ed. C. Salsi, M. Goldoni, A. Milano, G. Montecchi, Milan.

Milano, A. (2000): “Le falsificazioni Barelli,” in Achille Bertarelli e Trieste, Trieste, pp. 79–93.

Piazzi, M.L. (2017): “Manipolazioni e falsificazioni nelle matrici xilografiche Soliani-Barelli e Mucchi,” Studi di Memofonte, N.S., pp. 134–158"

All photos provided & card back design as far as I know this is most extensive deck of this kind & most esquisit art too!

i'll dive into card meanings for weekend & add my observation after I figure what these extra cards are about?😉✨🍀💕

Lovely! Thank you for sharing the post with all the detailed information, @reall.

You are welcome! Always happy to share interesting find!😉❤🙌🍀🎉✨