Article: How to spot a fake deck and why it matters

[gregory]

Yes - discussion and raising awareness is key. And understanding that you can't get a genuine deck on the cheap - unless traded on a forum or from someone on ebay who actually doesn't know what they have. (I have got a few that way...) If we want people to create new stuff, we have to be prepared to pay for it. If Ciro puts up a new deck for $45 and you see it on sale for $10 - you know EXACTLY what you are doing. If you then say to yourself - well Ciro can afford to lose out - well, shame on you.

 

And it doesn't help when people bring up faux arguments around the whole issue.

Edited July 6, 2020 by gregory

[reall]

1 hour ago, cirom said:

I’m not so sure that is the case either. Many of the images of fake versions of my decks shown on on Amazon, Wish, Etsy etc  show golden edging. Now I’m not sure if they actually are, but that’s how they are advertised. So you won’t know until it actually arrives.

Of all the clues, the most obvious that suggests a fake is still the too good to be true price. Unless it’s specifically stated that it’s a used deck. Maybe I’ve just become cynical now. But I believe that the vast majority of fakes are bought, in full aware that they are what they are. So while informing each other on how  best to spot and presumably avoid purchasing such decks is positive and well intentioned step, ultimately it’s a gesture not a meaningful  solution. I’m not sure there is a solution. Piracy exists because there is a demand for what it offers and that demand comes from the tarot community. A rather sad assessment but a reality.

not always, I find Lots of fakes selling on etsy double the price of original And Worst part seller still have big number of positive reviews even if it's evident from Pic it's bad fake!x,x facepalm imo most people don't know about piracy decks & therefore can't see fake even in face!x,x facepalm & even worse trust etsy & similar popular well known platforms over official artist page!x,x facepalm so raising awareness IS Big difference at least no one can't say I did not know etc

also I think there are actually ways to *protect cards from piracy scanning etc similar how I'd cards are protected?:)

looking into printers safety measures software & other tech that may help us here distinguish original & reduce at least piracy!:)

will post more when I have all info!;)

[cirom]

Pirate sellers are sophisticated now. The majority of decks are not opportunistic individuals scanning a deck. So the idea that somehow the problem will be diminished by printing holograms or other markings is not really a solution. Such markings by default would have to be discrete enough so as to not detract from the core imagery, so wether by small size or special ink, their absence in a fake deck would be a minimum difference, and one only noticeable after the fact, upon receipt of the deck and then by comparisons to a real deck. So technically applying some form of watermark or. other feature is doable and may be something thats difficult to reproduce, but in reality hardly necessary to reproduce either. Most decks that are currently pirated are those that are mass produced by the publishers, this suggest that one the pirates have a clearer idea of which decks are potential more valuable to reproduce, and do  from digital copies of original files. The sellers also know how to use and abuse the selling platform. The multiple offers of any given deck, each with different prices is simply a means of constantly remaining open for business, even if one of more of their profiles are taken down by any cease and desist. I also believe that customer reviews are easily falsified. I am reasonably familiar with the print industry and the underlying economics of it in costs and production. I have come up with some work arounds that we’re i to do another deck would reduce the likelihood of piracy, but in my case little to late. I will share it privately with some of my peers, but not publicly for obvious reasons.

But one thing that I have done that may or may not have helped, at least with my self published editions is to include personally signed additional “signature cards” something that is obviously not an option for mass production or print on demand services.

But one further thing I’d like to Emphasis , annoying though all this is to me personally, it’s not a financial deal killer because my career is towards its end anyway, the reason for not wishing to produce more decks is an emotional one, more a feeling of violation that your work is no longer yours, but accessible at a whim to whoever. So I have Little enthusiasm to commit another year to another deck. Without wishing to come across as immodest, recognition come at a price. In Fact in strictly financial terms I always consciously took a financial hit with licensing decks as opposed to sticking to self published. The latter is far more profitable. But there is something satisfying about knowing your work is hopefully enjoyed and used by tens of thousands rather than a far smaller number. In the case of piracy one might say that is an extension of the number of ‘’appreciative” users.. A certain  irony there. But piracy can be devastating to other designers who may be reliant on one title. So yes forums such as this are a good thing. 

[gregory]

Thanks Ciro. I agree with every word you say. The extra cards are a good move - but of course the INNOCENT buyer (and there are some) who see your work in etsy don't know that they were supposed to be in there....

 

It's easy to say there are cunning ways - but the sophisticated fakers out there can - and do - get around those.

[cirom]

Fair points

 

[gregory]

I just wish they weren't

[reall]

9 hours ago, cirom said:

Pirate sellers are sophisticated now. The majority of decks are not opportunistic individuals scanning a deck. So the idea that somehow the problem will be diminished by printing holograms or other markings is not really a solution. Such markings by default would have to be discrete enough so as to not detract from the core imagery, so wether by small size or special ink, their absence in a fake deck would be a minimum difference, and one only noticeable after the fact, upon receipt of the deck and then by comparisons to a real deck. So technically applying some form of watermark or. other feature is doable and may be something thats difficult to reproduce, but in reality hardly necessary to reproduce either. Most decks that are currently pirated are those that are mass produced by the publishers, this suggest that one the pirates have a clearer idea of which decks are potential more valuable to reproduce, and do  from digital copies of original files. The sellers also know how to use and abuse the selling platform. The multiple offers of any given deck, each with different prices is simply a means of constantly remaining open for business, even if one of more of their profiles are taken down by any cease and desist. I also believe that customer reviews are easily falsified. I am reasonably familiar with the print industry and the underlying economics of it in costs and production. I have come up with some work arounds that we’re i to do another deck would reduce the likelihood of piracy, but in my case little to late. I will share it privately with some of my peers, but not publicly for obvious reasons.

But one thing that I have done that may or may not have helped, at least with my self published editions is to include personally signed additional “signature cards” something that is obviously not an option for mass production or print on demand services.

But one further thing I’d like to Emphasis , annoying though all this is to me personally, it’s not a financial deal killer because my career is towards its end anyway, the reason for not wishing to produce more decks is an emotional one, more a feeling of violation that your work is no longer yours, but accessible at a whim to whoever. So I have Little enthusiasm to commit another year to another deck. Without wishing to come across as immodest, recognition come at a price. In Fact in strictly financial terms I always consciously took a financial hit with licensing decks as opposed to sticking to self published. The latter is far more profitable. But there is something satisfying about knowing your work is hopefully enjoyed and used by tens of thousands rather than a far smaller number. In the case of piracy one might say that is an extension of the number of ‘’appreciative” users.. A certain  irony there. But piracy can be devastating to other designers who may be reliant on one title. So yes forums such as this are a good thing. 

yes, more I do my *research more im convinced as long as deck can be photographed it can be pirated as well,,

yes, it's exactly my point to research for sort of layer that would only be visible under spec light or something so we can say if your deck don't have this IT'S Fake!:)

& imo it's also good to raise shopper awareness when they Do Know/realize they got fake deck to report seller & ask for refund?:) imo at least this would learn them a lesson!;)

looking forward to see what you will came up with!:) support your decision to selfpublish 100%!;D hopefully big publisher will get a hint & do SOMETHING! imo it's shameful to cut on already small % new author get when signing up with big publisher by reducing it further to pirate sake!x,x facepalm worst part no one dreams of being pirated when creating a deck so yes that pirates chapter & why it matters should definitely be part of EVERY Tarot book right next to how to choose your deck section!;)

[katrinka]

3 minutes ago, reall said:

& imo it's also good to raise shopper awareness when they Do Know/realize they got fake deck to report seller & ask for refund?:) imo at least this would learn them a lesson!;)

I think a lot of us try to do that. I don't even create decks, and I try to raise awareness. I think it's important.
But a lot of buyers don't care. They justify it by saying that they "couldn't afford the deck otherwise." But (I keep saying this) there's a big difference between a want and a need. A new deck isn't like a place to sleep or food for the kids, obviously, it's not a necessity. I want a Cartier Trinity bangle, but I can't afford it. So I do without it, and that hasn't killed me. I don't need it and I'm not entitled to it. A deck is a much smaller thing, but it's the same principle. And when you add up the sales the artists are losing and the legal fees some of them have paid out, it's not so small after all.

A "minds and hearts" strategy does work, but only up to a point. I think a more effective strategy would be to make the names of the pirate printers known!

 

[reall]

Imo another thing we are forgetting here is *shopping effect?:)

 

Imo fact is pirated decks don't have Any Collector value & therefore not collector item as imo main thing that qualify item for collection is material quality need to be good or pretty pirates are None!:)

 

& no decent person would use pirated deck & expect to get good reading energy from it?x.x

 

so there is nothing good about pirate deck that would make it worth to buyer except sad fact our modern society bring our shopping habits to internet where we are bombarded with adds & other sublimated that brainwash individuals less resistant to end up ordering fishy deck from fishy seller just for heck of it for thrill some people experience or shopping just make shoppingholic feel temporary better?x,x

 

But Piracy IS Bad Thing With Serious Consequences That robs so Many Good People involved in creation & production of legit decks of their well earned income! 🙂 so please Raise Awareness Report Pirates Ask for Refund & if you realize you are ordering something you don't actually need or want look for help:) imo any issue can be solved only as long we are out of closet with it & address problem properly!;)

 

P.S This is why selling platforms are main culprit & promoter of negative shopingholic behavior!:) True story watched it on Dr Oz today!:)

 

P.p.s also naming people is No (at least not publicly as it can help them by *exposure!:)

Edited July 9, 2020 by reall

[gregory]

<edited>

Edited July 9, 2020 by gregory

[Raggydoll]

We will not invite Facebook drama here and we will also not hint about private conversation (or secret groups etc). The flaming or the gossiping that goes on elsewhere does not need to be imported to the TT&M. Here is a quick reminder of some key rules (specifically number 1,3 and 10), and then we can get back on topic! 🙂

 

[gregory]

 

Post it everywhere, guys. (PS I have permission !)

[katrinka]

38 minutes ago, gregory said:

Post it everywhere, guys. (PS I have permission !)

Wooooooot! Done. 😸

[reall]

Apologize for breaking rules (unintentionally, just trying to explain why naming is no!x,x facepalm

@Gregory will Share that love ciro art!;D

[Will]

Shared, and I have the article bookmarked. I had no idea this was such an issue, but I'll be more careful around cheap decks in the future.

[Raggydoll]

37 minutes ago, Will said:

Shared, and I have the article bookmarked. I had no idea this was such an issue, but I'll be more careful around cheap decks in the future.

I am glad you found this article useful too! 

[LittleMissMalachite]

Great article! 

[gregory]

Happening to Patrick Valenza too:

 

https://deviantmooninc.com/blogs/the-laboratory/buyer-beware-counterfeit-decks-amazon-ebay

[Raggydoll]

4 minutes ago, gregory said:

Happening to Patrick Valenza too:

 

https://deviantmooninc.com/blogs/the-laboratory/buyer-beware-counterfeit-decks-amazon-ebay

Sigh! And that picture of the family playing cards 

 

[reall]

He forgot to mention etsy,,,

[AquaUniversalis]

I just wonder, is Bookdepository a genuine site? I bought many decks from there, wondering if it's authentic now, ugh. Ciro's decks are around 20 euros there, not abnormally cheap but not too expensive either, when on his site his decks are around 55.

[cirom]

To avoid confusion, the two price reference do not correspond to the same items. 20 euros sound about right, for mass produced decks released by major publishers. Many of my decks are licenced to such publishers. But they are not the same titles as those on my site though. The ones I sell directly are self published editions, much smaller print runs and come with personally signed signature cards of authenticity).

[gregory]

29 minutes ago, AquaUniversalis said:

I just wonder, is Bookdepository a genuine site? I bought many decks from there, wondering if it's authentic now, ugh. Ciro's decks are around 20 euros there, not abnormally cheap but not too expensive either, when on his site his decks are around 55.

It's a reputable site owned by Amazon - and as it doesn't have marketplace re-sellers, you should be OK. They are often nice and cheap. If the deck has a published and an ISBN, you could get your money back if it looks dodgy. But I have never seen a fake there, or bought one there.

[AquaUniversalis]

1 hour ago, cirom said:

To avoid confusion, the two price reference do not correspond to the same items. 20 euros sound about right, for mass produced decks released by major publishers. Many of my decks are licenced to such publishers. But they are not the same titles as those on my site though. The ones I sell directly are self published editions, much smaller print runs and come with personally signed signature cards of authenticity).

Thank you for clarification.

1 hour ago, gregory said:

It's a reputable site owned by Amazon - and as it doesn't have marketplace re-sellers, you should be OK. They are often nice and cheap. If the deck has a published and an ISBN, you could get your money back if it looks dodgy. But I have never seen a fake there, or bought one there.

Whew, that's good to know. I use bookdepository basically for the one and only reason- they have free shipping. Usually shipping to me (especially from US) costs a pretty penny, and it's not uncommon that shipping costs more than a product itself (shipping from US costs me around 30 euros, for example. It's crazy!!). *facepalms* I'm relieved to know it's a trustworthy site. 

[reall]

3 hours ago, gregory said:

It's a reputable site owned by Amazon - and as it doesn't have marketplace re-sellers, you should be OK. They are often nice and cheap. If the deck has a published and an ISBN, you could get your money back if it looks dodgy. But I have never seen a fake there, or bought one there.

agree! this is where I get my mass published decks & books!:D