Article: How to spot a fake deck and why it matters

[reall]

3 hours ago, AquaUniversalis said:

Thank you for clarification.

Whew, that's good to know. I use bookdepository basically for the one and only reason- they have free shipping. Usually shipping to me (especially from US) costs a pretty penny, and it's not uncommon that shipping costs more than a product itself (shipping from US costs me around 30 euros, for example. It's crazy!!). *facepalms* I'm relieved to know it's a trustworthy site. 

lol this is exactly why bookdepository is,my favorite!:D

[Kath]

On 7/7/2020 at 9:18 AM, katrinka said:

 So I do without it, and that hasn't killed me. I don't need it and I'm not entitled to it. A deck is a much smaller thing, but it's the same principle. And when you add up the sales the artists are losing and the legal fees some of them have paid out, it's not so small after all.
 

I think you've hit on something here - people feeling entitled to a product.  They have not one single care as to who is affected by their choice to buy a pirated product (whether tarot, DVD, clothing, etc).  They feel that they deserve to own it, but they shouldn't have to pay full price for it.   Their selfishness outweighs any sense of morality or respect for the artist or creator of the original works.  

 

I'm so sad for artists, such as Ciro, who have now walked away due to piracy, and the loss of future beautiful tarot decks that may have graced our bookshelves.

[Raggydoll]

35 minutes ago, Kath said:

I think you've hit on something here - people feeling entitled to a product.  They have not one single care as to who is affected by their choice to buy a pirated product (whether tarot, DVD, clothing, etc).  They feel that they deserve to own it, but they shouldn't have to pay full price for it.   Their selfishness outweighs any sense of morality or respect for the artist or creator of the original works.  

 

I'm so sad for artists, such as Ciro, who have now walked away due to piracy, and the loss of future beautiful tarot decks that may have graced our bookshelves.

I so agree 💗

[katrinka]

3 hours ago, Kath said:

I'm so sad for artists, such as Ciro, who have now walked away due to piracy, and the loss of future beautiful tarot decks that may have graced our bookshelves.

We all lose, in that sense.

[Raggydoll]

About scammer websites that sell tarot decks

 

https://youtu.be/O7OMWJIsCSc

[gregory]

Yeah.... Hope paypal can help her.

[Raggydoll]

1 hour ago, gregory said:

Yeah.... Hope paypal can help her.

Me too. It sucks so bad 😞

[Guest]

I just read through this thread and frankly, I am horrified but (unfortunately) not very surprised. Over the past few weeks, I’ve seen dozens of ads on Instagram (manly in stories) for pirated decks. Reported every single one but it left me a bit disheartened. I understand the law of a capitalist market and I get, even if I find it despicable, why pirates steal and sell decks. Money.

What drives me crazy is the Facebook group thing. I mean, why on earth would anyone half-decent do that? I take pride in buying my favourite artists/authors’ decks, usually from local bookshops or their website. I feel like I am part of a very special adventure supporting them and it gives so much more value to my decks (non-monetary value that is).

This makes me so angry on behalf of the artists who’ve been pirated/stolen from.

[Raggydoll]

1 hour ago, Remy said:

I just read through this thread and frankly, I am horrified but (unfortunately) not very surprised. Over the past few weeks, I’ve seen dozens of ads on Instagram (manly in stories) for pirated decks. Reported every single one but it left me a bit disheartened. I understand the law of a capitalist market and I get, even if I find it despicable, why pirates steal and sell decks. Money.

 

What drives me crazy is the Facebook group thing. I mean, why on earth would anyone half-decent do that? I take pride in buying my favourite artists/authors’ decks, usually from local bookshops or their website. I feel like I am part of a very special adventure supporting them and it gives so much more value to my decks (non-monetary value that is).

 

This makes me so angry on behalf of the artists who’ve been pirated/stolen from.

 

Yes. It makes me really angry and disappointed in the way people behave. 

[gregory]

1 hour ago, Remy said:

What drives me crazy is the Facebook group thing. I mean, why on earth would anyone half-decent do that? I take pride in buying my favourite artists/authors’ decks, usually from local bookshops or their website. I feel like I am part of a very special adventure supporting them and it gives so much more value to my decks (non-monetary value that is).

 

My bold. They wouldn't. They aren't half decent people. Simples.

[ilweran]

On 7/6/2020 at 1:07 PM, gregory said:

Yes - discussion and raising awareness is key. And understanding that you can't get a genuine deck on the cheap

See I know this and I still got caught out.

 

I'd been away from tarot for a while, came back in, didn't know the latest decks, saw a cheap deck on eBay and bought it. I thought it was like, I don't know, that cheap Indian themed RWS clone that you culd buy on eBay way back when that I only paid about £4 for.

 

Anyway this deck didn't look anything special in the photos so I bought it. Turned out it was a pirated Prisma Vision. Seller had disappeared. The pirated deck still sits looking rather embarrassed on my shelves and I feel a twinge of unease when I see it. I obviously can't sell it and binning it seems wasteful.

 

Learnt my lesson though and now research like crazy (or like when I was buying wooden Thomas the Tank Engine trains online for my little boy, got so good at spotting fakes!) before ordering any decks from eBay, Etsy or Amazon sellers.

[cirom]

This issue can be divided into three perspectives. THE FINANCIAL, namely the loss of potential income, via diminished sales of the legitimate items themselves. The reduced commercial value of the body of work itself, as the artists or authors no longer have full control over how their work is reproduced. Its physical characteristics, size, card stock, quality of reproduction, quantity and application to other medium. i.e. being used by on line reading services etc...THE EMOTIONAL beyond the $$$$, there is something particularly invasive and personal when your work is being used by others without your approval or control. Its a feeling of personal violation. THE DISSAPOINTMENT the gradual realization that this phenomena isn't just one of illegal reproduction by criminals, its the realization that the phenomenon exists because it fulfills a market potential. People buy these decks in sufficient quantity that its a commercially viable practice. Initially I kidded myself that it was a naivety or that people genuinely didnt realize those cheap decks were a bargain for a reason, and I acknowledge that is still the case to a certain extent, as referenced in previous posts. But based on feedback and comments from the community I've read on social media, the reality is now apparent, that many people do realize, and simply don't care. On the contrary I took a lot of on line abuse from members of groups that I had outed for their practice of openly sharing image files of entire decks and PDFs of books for the specific purpose of being downloaded and reproduced. They considered themselves the victims, I was described as greedy old monster (the old part is correct), inconsiderate of poor people who couldn't afford the price of legal decks. Pretty ugly comments were posted on threads discussing my work, YouTube channels reviewing my decks etc etc. Disparaging it, mocking the very decks that they had previously downloading and buying illegal copies of ..... It was a kind of payback. It was like being politician running for office and being publicly attacked. Who needs that? THAT, more than any personal financial hits was what proved to be the last straw for me. I really can't muster the emotional or creative drive to invest 9 months to a year of work on a new deck. I'm not being melodramatic, its just how I personally feel. I'm also not claiming this to be a financial devastation for me personally either, because Tarot has been good to me over the years. But I believe it could be very damaging for many others artists at earlier stages in their careers who are considering risking their time and money on a new project. The better the project proves to be, the more popular it proves to be, means it will become more appealing for it be pirated.... Now, finally after my bitching about this for many years, I sense that the issue is being taken more seriously, so there will be more pressure from the publishers to their suppliers to do something...Thats a step in the right direction. But while the community itself provides a willing potential market, I don't see how this will ever be resolved...Thats reality, but how sad is that.

[Papageno]

1 hour ago, cirom said:

 But based on feedback and comments from the community I've read on social media, the reality is now apparent, that many people do realize, and simply don't care. But while the community itself provides a willing potential market, I don't see how this will ever be resolved...Thats reality, but how sad is that.

Ditto

[ilweran]

Quote

They considered themselves the victims, I was described as greedy old monster (the old part is correct), inconsiderate of poor people who couldn't afford the price of legal decks.

That annoys me so much! There's all sorts of things I'd like to have if I had more money, but I don't. I don't go and steal those things and then abuse the person I stole them off.

 

Of course I'm not perfect, I did buy that deck mentioned in the previous post. I bought a pirated video game once, but complained and returned it (price wasn't suspiciously cheap so there was no clue at all). But I don't deliberately set out to do these things.

[Raggydoll]

It is discouraging, for sure. I have seen a trend on the auction site in my country (a site similar to ebay) that some people seem to buy bootleg decks from Wish in bulk and then sell them on in Sweden. The decks are clear fakes and its apparent that the seller knows too because of how they phrase their auctions. I have reported countless of these and tried to explain how to know that these are fakes to the people that run that site. They still do not take them down (and I suspect it is because they feel that they don't know for sure and that they don't trust the advice of a random user). It bugs me to no end because when my husband reports fake watches on there they take them down instantly. I haven't even looked for fakes in a while because I am so tired of it. Maybe I should have done more or tried to contact the publishers. But it is so overwhelming. I did however contact some of the sellers to try and get them to stop, but never got a reply. These are not big businesses, they are opportunistic individuals with an alleged love for tarot and a twisted moral. And if they did not know that they were selling fakes (99,9% of them will have known) they sure knew after I had told them, and they still kept going. So it makes me feel like

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, gregory said:

My bold. They wouldn't. They aren't half decent people. Simples.

I guess I have the hope (quite ridiculous at this point) that people will try to go for what's right rather than what's easy 😔

Anyhow, without demand from *some* collectors/readers/buyers, the offer of pirated deck would die down. Pirates don't invest (however small the amount is) money into creating decks for them not to sell I reckon.

 

6 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I did however contact some of the sellers to try and get them to stop, but never got a reply.

The feeling of being powerless because some random opportunist is hidding behind a screen gets me every time too...

[reall]

Ciro I understand how bitter disappointment this piracy issue & lack of respect for Artist Work Creation process & copyright in general is! BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW ALL THAT HATE TALKS MEANS NOTHING COMING FROM Pirates!x.x facepalm imo it's important to make big difference between simple consumer/ buyer who may or not know deck is pirated But Will Learn to Make a Difference if we persist Rising Awarenes of Existing Ongoing Piracy issue & Importance of Protecting Copyright & Respecting Author Rights & Supporting Legit Deck Creators & printers!:) & Pirates printers & corrupted sellers Affected by our anty piracy move!:) They will hate talk but will also be forced to reduce/cease their print activity acording to lack of demand!:) Remember This Every Time You Feel Powerless is bc other party makes you feel so Exactly because You Have Power to make a difference!:) Anyone Can Contribute Simply by Not Buying pirate deck You Are Making Difference!xD & Sharing post on insta fb your soc media warning about fake decks exist & people should be careful & not order from amazon ebay etsy but legit artist author & publisher pages imo something like international day of Tarot copyright awarenes would help so once a year we can be reminded ?:)

 

Also legislative change that would help remove these sellers from paypal & selling platforms would help?:)

 

P.s I would make pirate themed worst doodle deck ever as middle finger to pirates & anyone giving you hate talK! XD

Edited July 22, 2020 by reall

[katrinka]

It's not going to stop any time soon because there are no consequences. If your work is pirated in most parts of the world, you can sue. But if your work is being pirated by Chinese printers, you have no recourse at present. This is NOT a good time to create decks.

It may change in time:
"The Japanese went through a similar stage in their development---copying many American and European products. Japanese companies and the government cracked down on the practice when Japanese companies needed laws to protect their intellectual property rights. It is assumed that the same will happen in China as the country becomes more developed and its companies and business practices more mature."

Source: http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat9/sub61/item356.html
 

But for now, I think the best thing that could happen is for artists to lay low.

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

I've looked for the broken mirror tarot for a long time. I note now it is on aliexpress for $99.00 as '"Directly from China Suppliers:Full English Broken Mirror Tarot Cards Factory Made High Quality Tarot".

I wonder if this is another bootleg like others noted recently here or, simply where the maker can market it. aliexpress is full of small suppliers, just like Amazon marketplace here in the states. I understand the temptation to buy... 

[gregory]

According to my source on all things ali and the rest - decent people CAN sell on there. Whether this is a decent seller I have no idea. I got mine through a member here who was able to source it almost at source.

[Decan]

The Buckland Romani Tarot on eBay (from Ukraine) are all fakes!

 

For the little story I bought one copy myself one or two years ago, the quality was horrible. The seller isn't anymore on eBay (I checked) probably banished I don't know, but there are other sellers who do the same (or it's the same seller -or sellers- with another identity, possible).

He was noted 100% positive, which misled me. Apparently the sellers who currently sell this deck are noted 100% positive too, I don't know how they can do that, but sure they are fakes!

 

Look at this one particularly (not the only one!), it is tricky/pernicious: the deck is said to be a second hand copy and the seller says that he/she ships it from the US. But click on his/her name and you'll see that he/she is based in Ukraine. What can you do if you receive a bad fake deck since the seller said indeed it was a second hand copy with imperfections due to usage!  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Buckland-Romani-Tarot-Russian-Edition-78-Cards-Deck-Standart/133365503235?hash=item1f0d341503:g:ksAAAOSwxzheh5LH

Edited July 27, 2020 by Decan

[gregory]

That's very odd as he says he had three of them... two sold, one left.

 

Look at all his other stuff...

[Decan]

1 hour ago, gregory said:

That's very odd as he says he had three of them... two sold, one left.

 

Look at all his other stuff...

This is an usual sales trick, and even with "honest" sellers the item is often said to be the very last or among the 2 very last (sometimes you can have a message saying that other people have also this item in their cart currently, these things), so quick quick buy it! LOL

But the next customer will be able to buy a very last item too generally 😄🙃

 

I will take a glance at his/her other stuff...

ETA: he/she sells a lot of decks of cards!

Regarding the Romani Buckland Tarot in its English version I'm pretty sure it was borderless whatever the edition, but here there is a white border.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Decan

[gregory]

I have a  Llewellyn (which I have no handy scan of); a Galde one, which I gather matches it - with borders just like that.

 

A pocket one from Česká Karta with none: 

 

And a Russian one (a legit one I bought from someone I KNOW to be honest) with none:  

[Decan]

Oh my God, you are fortunate @gregory it is a beautiful deck!

Just have it on my phone ( an app)