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I used to own a Wirth deck, but I think I gave it away a long time ago because I didn't use it. I saw it as similar to the Marseille decks, in terms of content.

Do you use reversals with pip decks? If so, using numbers and suits, do you read a reversal as lacking the qualities of the upright meanings? Or maybe the opposite of these meanings? I'm beginning to see how pip decks could be useful in these reversed circumstances ...but I suppose I would need to be consistent.

@Troll - here's questions for you to ask the Tarot: "What 3 things can I do to improve my dart skills?" "What is my soul's lesson for this life?" "What does Elvis say about his diet when he was alive?" "Who will win the soccer cup / Formula 1/world darts competition? Please Describe the winner by their birthday card (as per the decan wheel)" That's some question examples for you to practise with. I'd be interested to know if Elvis would eat the same 🙂

They are great alternatives. Although we might get slapped with an accusation of cultural appropriation. Then again, they don't feel into the client. I guess my intention in seeking a new "introduction question" is a signpost that will open paths and links. For reading purposes we DO want to ask a question that helps them know what they want help with. The gist of the original post is serving people as advisors, but not as counsellors. But I'm thinking as we move through the world each day we can help people to feel connected, not just when we bring people into the fold for a reading. That's healing in itself - and that enhances our intuition to really benefit people when we do read. It's also a way of perhaps identifying issues for the sitter because they don't feel relaxed enough to ask. For example, imagine an 18 year old child of hard core Catholics who wants to come out of the closet. Barleywine was saying (poorly paraphrased here) is that he wants to feel the pulse, get the feedback and work around the stonewalling. Then he can get into the issue, and let the cards do the talking (but now he's tuned into the right frequency). I guess it's much like determining what a position in a spread is answering, if that makes sense? As I was writing I was thinking about some woo-woo way out ways of querying people: "Hello. Welcome. Come through here. Now I'm going to ask how you feel and ascertain your soul's current question by doing an exercise. Close your eyes and imagine a bright white shining ball of light the size of a tennis ball moving slowly from the crown of your head down the centre of your body all the way to your feet. Notice any changes in the ball of light such as a change in colour or size, and silently point to where on your body that occurs as the light moves down." There's no question, here. Now its so bizarre they'll run straight out the door 🤣 or think they can tell you anything, and it may actually tell you where they're dealing with something without asking any question. "Hello. How is your light shining today on a scale of 1-10?"

22) I don`t use my cards often because I don`t have questions to ask . It would be ok ,but how to learn a skill if you don`t practice it. For example I play darts few hours each day ,because I want to become better ,but I can`t do the same with Tarot ,because I don`t have any questions to ask them

I tell fortunes with Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot, the pips of which follows Etteilla's system of interpretation. I meditate on Oswald Wirth's trumps and wild card. Not exactly pathworking but close enough. Occasionally, I meditate on Rose Tarot. Wirth suggests certain exercises in his book. I'm still in a learning process when it comes to Marseille decks, but I love it. Too early to say when I will switch to and fro Marseille and DFWT.

Hey there! I moved this into it's own post since it didn't belong in the other thread. 🙂 That screen name doesn't show up on the backend. Is this the name (22glowingblobs) that you used to register? If not, please let me know the screen name. If so, please provide screenshots if there are any errors upon sign up. Your IP isn't in my blocked or restricted list, so that shouldn't be an issue. We'll figure this out!

I learnt RWS at age 15 and stuck with it religiously through my life. I learnt Thoth back in the 90s but it never resonated for me. However, i will say that I applied much of what I learnt about Thoth to reading RWS. As @Rose Lalonde mentions, both RWS and Thoth descend from Golden Dawn. So I felt this Thoth training made me a better reader with RWS. Several years ago I felt burnout on RWS. I got into the older style Tarocchi and TdM. I read Ben Dov's book on TdM and a couple others--but his is the best. While I don't follow any of the Marseille books per se--I use my own style with pip decks--I found this got me out of my rut. It sparked a new direction in my studies, a new way of reading. I tend to use different SPREADS with the different styles. I love a keltic cross with RWS. But i use French cross or game of the hand with pip decks. Other spreads go either way for me. But this is also part of it. The different reading style extends to which spreads I tend to use. For me it's more a matter of mood. The pip decks require more numerology. No depending on pictures. It's all about numbers and suits. So, if I'm in a numerology mood I go for a pip deck. Otherwise a RWS style. With clients, it's usually RWS although on my videos I use a pip deck--so go figure. For some reason making videos I want more numerology and i couldn't tell you why.

Haha, that’s how I feel about it. Gorgeous but way too damn expensive! I feel similarly about my collection right now. I’m satisfied with how it is at the moment. Plus, my little cabinet-shelf area is a little crowded for space. I haven’t bought a deck in 2-3 years. Before everything caught my eye and glittered with possibility, but now I’m like “…that’s nice….pass.”

Wow. I've never seen this Piatnic Pointer deck. Thanks for sharing. I Love it. LOL but I don't know if I love it $250+ I have no wishlist for tarots. My collection is complete vis a vis having all the decks i "need" to do my job. Plus many which are--lets face it--a grownup version of toys i like to play with. I purchase decks as they strike my fancy. Which is now rare as i live in a small space and the collection must fit on one bookcase. If the case gets too cluttered, then decks get donated or sold away. A few decks in my collection I will call "Quest Decks". I wanted them--they were difficult to obtain and so had somewhat of a "quest" to find them.

The Apparition tarot. I hope this doesn’t go OOP before I have a chance to get it. Not 100% sure how it would read for me and it seems large so that’s probably why I hesitated to get it in the past. But it looks gorgeous and interesting. Sorry for the blurry image!

I have mainly 4 decks on my wishlist I’d like to get someday. There are others, but these are the top 4. Piatnik Wien Pointer tarot This is OOP and is a little pricey to get but I love the colors and patterns and it just looks fun. Right now the Sakki-Sakki is filling that niche for me, so I’m not in a rush. The Majestic Earth tarot. This is also OOP and last I checked the website wasn’t working anymore. 😞 Maybe someday. I have the Naturescapes tarot for now. Really want this one. Bobby and Meimei Hamster tarot. It looks hilarious! I couldn’t find a picture of the 8 of Wands but it makes me laugh. There’s one more I’ll post below.

Exactly. Not everyone fits neatly into the box of "can be helped via normal channels" I did this many years back in Portland with my ex husband. I feel we benefitted by it. Yet I also observed a fellow who really, really, wanted to become one of the Forum leaders more than anything. And his life was a hot mess. In the end I enjoyed it as a basic training but didn't remain connected with it beyond that. Autistic people HATE the "How are you?" It's literally a fake formulaic question that requires a lie to answer it. One must say, "Fine, thank you. How are you?" even if you're thinking this morning I cried for 3 hours and would have ended my life if only I knew who would take care of my cat. But likewise, one shouldn't be too good, either. "Whoo Hoo! I just made a bunch of money doing xyz and my business is really taking off and I'm ecstatically happy!" is prolly going to arouse jealousy. So again, the formula maybe modified to "really good, thank you. How are you? UGH. Enforced lying. I now just accept this is what it is. I've made peace with it. I like the greetings in the Arabic and Indian world. As-salamu alaykum = may peace be upon you. No questions demanding a fake answer. Namaste = I bow to the divinity in you In some south asian cultures the greeting is, "Have you eaten?" I would actually prefer this to the dreaded "how are you?" I can answer the Have you eaten questiuon honestly as I am lucky enough to eat every day.

Thanks again. No, I have never tried reading with an ordinary playing card deck. Somehow, it doesn't appeal to me. I actually own a Tarot de Marseilles deck that I've never tried to read with—so I might try reading with it, and see how I get on. Because the pips aren't illustrated, I can be more ...systematic?...with the meanings, as the artwork won't influence me. The only other pip decks I own are The Neuzeit Tarot by Walter Wegmüller and the Zigeuner Tarot, which is also Wegmüller's. These are the two most bizarre decks I own, and I've had them for many years, but never tried to read with them. I just love the artwork, which is why I bought them. Still love the artwork! However, the pips, while not illustrated with meanings, like the RWS decks, contain such crowded and strange images that it would be difficult to step back and read them in a pragmatic way. I think I'll just continue to treat these two decks as a mini art gallery, and actually attempt to read with the more normal Tarot de Marseilles. 🙂 I don't own any Thoth decks ...yet. 🙂

AUTHOR'S NOTE: When upright, the 7 of Wands represents "Valour" or extraordinary courage in the face of daunting odds. This is clearly reflected in the Waite-Smith version, which shows a harried warrior being set upon by six adversaries who have crowded him into a corner. At that moment in time he has yet to give an inch even though his prospects appear to be dim. But all is not lost. He is holding the "moral high ground" as well as the tactical advantage (as any reading of US Civil War history will confirm), although the Golden Dawn interpreted this card as "possible victory" that is not assured. On balance, though, I like his chances to knock a few heads, and he can always invoke the 8 of Wands and high-tail it out of there in a pinch. (See my previous essay on the Seven, Eight and Nine of Wands as a tale of expedient retreat within the larger context of "confrontation, disengagement and redeployment"). However, its reversal could be read as the valiant but woefully over-matched man-at-arms taking a tumble if his foes manage to sweep his feet out from under him, and the best that can be expected is that he will take some of the enemy down with him as he falls. If he's brought low, he can always try to "kneecap" them and thereby reduce them to his level, after which the battle can resume as an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation. In that sense, what we see in the reversed Seven is not necessarily impending demise but rather an opportunity for a strategic maneuver that levels the playing field (the military term for it is "feint" aimed at exposing the opponent's flank). The Thoth definition, which ignores the finer points of orientation, doesn't offer even this small measure of optimism. It talks about the army being "thrown into disorder" by an attack coming from "all directions without systematic purpose." The card carries the robust imprint of fiery Mars in solar Leo, but when married to Crowley's vision of the "weak, earthy, feminine" Seven (the number of Venus in the Qabalistic pecking-order), the flame is fitful and Mars by itself isn't potent enough to carry the day; it suggests grabbing "the first weapon to hand" which is "evidently unsatisfactory" in fending off the forces arrayed against the seeker. (The besieged combatant's mismatched footwear in the RWS card implies that he donned his armor in haste.) When the 7 of Wands appears reversed in a reading I like to reaffirm the ethical virtues of the seeker's cause that can serve as a "rallying cry" should hope begin to falter. Even if it amounts to escaping the jaws of defeat in an unapologetic "discretion is the better part of valor" and "live to fight another day" frenzy of self-justification, at least up to that point there is still the nobility of "fighting the good fight." We may be stripped of everything up to and including our pride, but knowing we're in the right can take some of the sting out of running away.

Hello, I tried to sign up but am not sure the website is functioning properly. I tried 2 times and still cannot login. I did not receive any sort of confirmation email either. Do I need to wait for an approval on the backend? I’m not sure what to do. Thank you!

Thank you, laforza76. Now I definitely want to read the Traveler’s Report. If I can find an affordable copy, that is. — Such a groovy deck!

These are wonderful, gregory! Thank you very much.

My first full deck had its own system. Practically an oracle in that sense. Years later, I joined Aeclectic and spent a few years exploring. I think TdM was first. I enjoyed a great reading group we had for a line of cards. I wasn't influenced by my previous deck, because it was so different. Then I tried RWS clones. Then RWS. Then the Golden Dawn deck to dig into the roots of RWS. Then the Thoth. I do think it's possible. If you don't want the RWS to be a big influence, then focusing on the art in front of you and having a new reading method should do the trick. Do you read playing cards? I ask because if you aren't thinking of the RWS 7 of cups when looking at the 7 of hearts, you're already on solid ground. Actually, I can think of one problem I'd have... if I read with another system that also had astrology on the cards, but different associations, like Papus, Journey into Egypt or Holy Light -- that might do my head in. To read the Lovers as Taurus, for example (shudders 💀😅) I'd have a hard time letting go of the meaning of Gemini. -- Not that one is 'right' or 'wrong' or best because it was first, etc To me it only matters that I have methods that I've made my own that give useful readings.

Oh, okay. His practice would be similar to Rana George’s then (at least from what I’ve seen in her book). Andy Boroveshengra and Lisa Young Sutton use the MOD, though Lisa has recently been incorporating the Houses in her videos too. I use both, and I think it would be beneficial to know both sides and then combine or pick & choose your methods as they suit your context. As for the criss-cross, yes, you’ll ultimately read both diagonals as a whole. In my personal practice I just mention to the reader that AY diagonal’s influence holds more finality than BX does. Interesting view! Thanks for sharing it. He also views the four bottom cards as an additional row, then. When I’m doing readings, I only see four rows, hence why I read the central four cards in the houses of Birds + Child + Garden + Mountain. I won’t read the bottom four cards until the very end of the reading; in other words when I’m done examining the whole 8*4 tableau, I read those additional cards as a line which is the conclusion/what comes to pass. It’s always best to experiment and see what works for you.

I can't remember where I saw these, but I love the concept of Trishe Jaimes's cards: oracles that are less touchy-feely and more "real world" with focuses on Governance, World Events, or Mysteries. She also does readings on YT where she makes predictions based on these cards. I love the idea of these cards. One of the things I liked immediately about folk cartomancy with playing cards was how specific and direct it was, in comparison to Tarot. What's stopped me from immediately buying is: I don't like the art. I don't know if just her style, but the Walter/Margaret Keane big-eyed kid style sets my teeth on edge. (Weirdly, the website has none of the cards in the Investigation Oracle, but I assume they're similar to the other decks.) Does anyone have these cards? Have you read with them?

No, Serge uses the Houses (or, at least, that's what he's taught us), although I guess there are elements that have come in from MOD, because that shows the flow of energy, then BX, although he reads them altogether as one element. He's also taught us that the focus cards in the center are just the cards in Garden and Mountain, not the four there, because with an 8x4+4 board those are the only central cards.

I read a circle (ABYX) when I’m looking at the flow of external events and how they’re going to play out in the situation. I criss cross when I’m summing up a reading (AY, BX). This usually happens in a smaller spread like the 3*3 portrait. Because the timespan of a Grand Tableau is really broad, the corner cards are going to frame a broad theme as well, so I rarely use that method to sum up a grand tableau. Since I use the 8*4+4 formation, I look at the bottom four cards (the fate line) to see the outcome of a reading. I don’t stick to any one set method, because there are different ways to see each situation. If the cards speak to me in horizontal pairs (as in AB, XY or AX, BY) or zigzags I’ll use them accordingly. Lucky you! He’s a great teacher 🙂 I think he uses the method of distance…? AY and BX is frequently used in that system because you’re looking at where your cards fall primarily. So AY has greater impact than BX does because you’re moving from up to lower right. In the method of distance, cards that fall in the upper rows and to the right have more power.

1) Hair splitting! 🙃. How are you - is 'What ails you' OR 'What is wrong with you' in my book. Perhaps that's why I find it so irritating. 2) What's on your mind today? How have you been, and how can I help you? How is everything going right now for you?

Thank you! Exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get from this thread. May I ask you which system you learned first? Did your knowledge of that system influence your take on the others? I mean, if I started with Thoth or TdM, would my previous knowledge and familiarity with RWS be a big influence? Is it possible to 'start from scratch' with tarot systems, if you already know others?