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Hi geoxena, Thanks for the response. I believe I understand what you mean by intuitively. I mostly read in the past for myself, friends and family. My conversations with them were always much more relaxed and what we talked about was free form and simply flowed from the imagery on the cards. I would quite literally say things like "Oh, this ones cool. I like it in this positions" and then we'd go into why. Or how it made me feel in relation to the position in the spread or their question. I don't think the Fools Journey is a divination tool in an of itself. I never meant to imply to anyone that it was. I like it as the story of the fools journey this his various stages of development. It's a form of self analysis that I can use when I'm wondering why.. Ya know? I like that Carl Sagan quote!! Sincerely,

LOL, I crossed the streams in two projects I've been involved in -- Berti's tarot is the CLAUDIO Perrin.

I understand the dilemma you're in and I don't want to undermine your efforts to act sustainably, though compared to what's going on in the world your case doesn't make much of a difference. If you were hopping on your private jet to pick up the deck in Italy, I would want to have a discussion with you. I'm glad you'll get a nice replacement!

I'm aware of the idea of the Fool's journey, of course, but it is not generally something I use or look for. There have been some rare instances that I was reminded of it in a reading by seeing a particular card in a specific position, but only because there was something about the querent's question or issue, as well as the spread's purpose, that made me think of it. I read more intuitively, mostly using the imagery to guide me rather than memorized meanings, so an "established" story like the Fool's journey would only come up if it fit with what my intuition was telling me.

Better read: I'm sorry for spelling a foreign language incorrectly, and it's important to know, that no one used the expression Tarot de Marseilles before 1856. Even after 1856, when Romain Merlin (1793-1871) minted the expression, it took a little while before the term became widespread. Papus and Paul Marteau certainly caused the expression "tarot de Marseilles" to have a greater impact, but that happened after Christian's/Pitois' demise. I was considering writing substantially about French republican refugees in Belgium 1852-1870 but changed my mind.

Christian/Pitois is also the reason why Oswald Wirth put a crocodile in the corner of The Fool and why Wirth (subtly) and Waite-Smith (overtly) put sun symbolism on Temperance. While de Mellet and Etteilla had associated The Traitor with prudence, Christian/Pitois associated The Hermit with prudence, an influence we still may find among some tarot readers today.

The Gold Foil decks are so beautiful. I have Golden Art Nouveau Tarot and Golden Black Cat Tarot. There is som more I would like to have, but hard to get when I don´t want to have accounts at sellers outside my country.

Yes, it is. As a historian, in our sense of the word, Christian/Pitois is sorely lacking. So is Eliphas Levi. On the other hand, Christian/Pitois and Levi were surprisingly good at forming coherent systems of symbolism. All those people who read The Star as "hope" these days are resting on the foundation of Christian/Pitois, and the sequence of moral strophes, he associated the trumps + wild card with, forms a useful tool for meditation.

I started with Banzhaf because that's what was available back then (in German), and it's not bad, but for a better understanding, nothing beats DuQuette. I find Arrien irritating and unhelpful, Gerd Ziegler even worse, but Snuffin is good as well. For people just setting out with the Thoth, buy the DuQuette book and start working with the cards themselves. Lay them out according to their astrological associations (all Saturn cards together, all Venus cards together etc), and get used to the Tree of Life. There is a lot of wisdom in the cards themselves. Two other excellent books are M.M. Meleen's books for her Thoth-based decks: Book M for the Tabula Mundi and the Book of Seshet for the Rosetta. I'm re-reading the Book of Seshet right now, and it's great. Even if you don't have her decks, the books are a great resource for the Thoth system. The decks are wonderful as well. I would also recommend that beginners draw their own Tree of Life - it's not difficult if you start with a Flower of Life as described here. All you need is a simple divider (is that how it's called in English?). It's a great feeling when things start falling into place. Don't rush it, enjoy the process, and you can read with the Thoth deck even if you don't understand the whole theory behind it. By working with it, you'll understand it better. That's at least my experience.

@Misterei Thank you for this response! I really liked the video interview with Robert M. Place. That is the kinda' stuff I was looking for. Although, I'm not familiar with the deck they were showing I really liked his thoughts and interpretations. I'm going to get mine out and "play along" the next time I watch it. I may have to watch it a few times, because I want to take some notes. 😊

I have an "ugh" today. 😞 The Fairytale Tarot by Giulia F. Massaglia (Lo Scarabeo) arrived. After finding it in my local shop for 58€ and on Amazon (sold by Amazon) for 28€, I had ordered it from Amazon (.de). It was shipped to my address here in Finland. The box was thrown into the package alongside a bunch of other things I had ordered, and either during shipping or maybe already before it got a bit scuffed up on the edges. It was sealed with two transparent stickers. I opened it and looked straight at the Fool card... which has what I'd have to describe as scuff marks on it. Behind it - the Chariot. Behind that, the 2 of Wands. The deck has been mixed up, and looking at the scuff marks on some cards I'd say it was shuffled. I then opened the LWB, and guess what... someone underlined keywords for each card with pencil. 😐 The cards are so beautiful, but idk what to do. Returning is a hassle and I already hate myself for even ordering from Amazon, I guess I got what I asked for. Going to count if there are any cards missing... edit, no cards missing but quite a few of them have marks from (frequent?) use. I contacted Amazon and they're sending a replacement, but I need to return this one. I feel bad for what I've done to the environment and that I continue support this absolute garbage company. I only order from there when I can't find stuff locally - or when the price is 2x or higher.

Thanks, Daniel. I'm exploring some of the sugestions on that section.

Just starting out with Thoth, this really appeals to me. Using colour like this. Thanks for the suggestion.

There are some learning and book suggestions in the Thoth section here

How did you learn the Thoth system? Can you recommend a book that would help me get to grips with it? I, too, am interested in using the deck for deeper personal readings ...although I am not religious at all (any religion.) Will my lack of religious belief handicap me, do you think? By the way, I am a huge fan of the Anna K Tarot (in fact I reviewed it in our deck library here on Tarot, Tea and Me.) And the Centennial deck is the RWS deck I use most often these days. 🙂

In their book Secrets of the Waite-Smith Tarot, Katz and Goodwin often underline the fact that Pamela drew much of her inspiration from her experience in the theatre. It seems she used examples that helped her weave in a certain complexity. A couple of years back, there was a neon light installation on the outer walls of the Altes Museum in Berlin by Maurizio Nannucci that read: All Art Has Been Contemporary. The book makes a strong case for recognising this very contemporary aspect of the CSW Tarot. Here is a short passage from the chapter on the 6 of Cups:

There may be a connection to the child on the Sun card - if you have ever watched children enjoying themselves, you know that we adults have lost the ability to give ourselves so completely to the moment. There is an element of naive optimism in children that is comforting to see. I also think that Colman-Smith wanted to include all kinds of emotional states and feelings in the cards, and looking back on old memories has to be there. Where to put it astrologically? Sun in Scorpio seems a surprising choice because if there's a sign that's self-aware, sometimes even tortured by self-awareness, it's Scorpio. The major arcanum of this sign is Death. Childhood is the only time that we have the chance to live unaware of Death (of course, there are children who are confronted with Death). And as you said, the Six of Cups is associated with Tif'eret, the radiant, optimistic sephirah of the Sun. So Waite and Colman-Smith took the daring step to show the innocence of Death in the middle of Death. From the Pictorial Key to the Tarot: A card of the past and of memories, looking back, as - for example - on childhood; happiness, enjoyment, but coming rather from the past: things that have vanished. This reminds me of a saying: Memory is the only paradise from which we can't be expelled. This makes nostalgia such a complex feeling. We look back at a time when we thought our paradise was permanent, but it was not. We long not only for that paradise but also for the feeling that it would last. And in that sense, it suits Scorpio and Death very well to have at its apex a card that keeps memory alive, celebrating the belief in permanence in a world where everything vanishes. For me personally, this card embodies the Inner Child. Finding harmony within myself is only possible when I'm in harmony with the little girl I once was. This is what I see on my tarot calendar in front of my eyes right now: Death on the one side, Pleasure/Nostalgia on the other. And when I zoom in on the Tiny RWS magnets, I see Death riding towards the children. But the children are blissfully unaware of what is coming. Love is as strong as Death, says the Song of Salomo. We all have to yield to Death, but our memories keep love alive.

I was so suprised when i learned these expressions Major Arcana and Minor Arcana were all from a made-up book. Apparently Histoire de la Magie (1870) is full of fictional fakelore. Although I've never read it, this sounds about right for the times. Lots of made-up "history" of Tarot in the Occult Revival era and before. After learning this, I now mostly call the Majors Triunfi which was their proper and original name. The so-called Minor Arcana 56 cards are basically the same as any euro playing cards. The invention of the Triunfi suit in the 1400s is what made Tarocchi [tarot] different from other decks.

I read the book Tarot History and Symbolism by Robert Place. There's also an interview on youtube Vis a vis personal reflections aligning with existing philosophies--this touches upon the idea of collective consciousness. Akashik Records. That sort of thing. Gurdjieff teaches the concept of Objective Art. This is art of any genre that evokes certain states of consciousness in the person who experiences it. In music we might see this with Sufi sema. The music is designed to put listeners into an altered state. And it does [at least in my personal experience]. I see Tarots as objective art. People have all sorts of different ideas--some outlandish--but many, many people travel in a similar direction when they study the cards. The Fool's Journey has various different onramps 😉 In my own reflections, i noticed the 3 x 7 scheme holds a lesson in psychological development. Up to age 7 a child is forming their personality. It crystallizes around age 7. In olden days people often married as young as 14. In any case, broadly speaking we might say the personality matures at age 7 and sexuality matures at age 14. In USA age 21 is considered "adult" for certain laws [age 18 for others]. Certainly age 21 is when a human matures into more of an adult. Impulse control gets better, they are at peak physical strength. Anyway, this is a bit far afield of Tarot proper, but that's part of the fun. Sometimes contemplating the tarots leads me to contemplate other topics in a deeper way. You bring up an interesting distinction. Yes, depending on context, Tower can mean planned demo on a remodel project. Something not particularly life changing or malefic. Or it could be knocking over and breaking your favorite coffee mug. Or not getting that job offer you expected. Or 1001 other small things that don't change the trajectory of your life. But the Fool's Journey isn't about the fortune telling side of things. I've had spiritual experiences which shook me to the core. Internally. Invisible in the exterior world. No one would know just by looking at me. But inside my own soul? I have felt shattered in ways that words can't describe. Tower. This is 2 different ways of reading. if Tower appears b/c client had a tree fall on their roof--I don't get into the Ego Death thing. If a client comes with deep existential questions about the Meaning of Life -- then we have a conversation about spiritual aspects of Tower. What it means and how it feels. Ways to integrate a spiritual awakening that can feel shattering. Also a 3rd method which isn't reading at all. I contemplate cards. In meditation sometimes a card teaches me something about my soul's development and evolution. Sometimes cards appear in dreams which are likewise deeply personal and symbolic. Some experiences are beyond words and sometimes Triunfi illustrate these experiences. I very much consider myself a Fool on the Journey. Going back to original Topic--I dont find it linear in real life. I can't say I experience the triunfi in any particular order. They seem to activate in their own time--when the fruit is ripe it falls from the tree.

Welcome back! I've gone through several of the off and then coming back again episodes over the years and what I've found is that the "off" times are actually helpful interludes. Everything seems fresh and more clear when I come back. I've just come back after a few years of not reading professionally or doing very much with the cards at all and it's really amazing how much more I seem to relate to the cards all over again.

Anyone know why Waite and/or PCS went with nostalgia for this card? I'm not complaining, just curious. The Golden Dawn Society name was The Lord of Pleasure, and the Thoth stuck close to that with Pleasure. -- There is a pleasure in recalling more carefree or innocent times, but nostalgic joy is a narrow definition of pleasure, so I wasn't sure. Anyway for the combo of Scorpio and the Sun, Crowley says, "The whole image is that of the influence of the Sun on Water." He adds, "Pleasure, in the title of this card, must be understood in its highest sense: it implies well-being, harmony of natural forces without effort or strain, ease, satisfaction." We get double Sun here, since the sun also corresponds to all the sixes, along with a sense of balance and enlightenment.

To be transparent--I have never used a tarot app and freely admit bias against. I observed a person [some time ago] did a couple of readings in a exchange for feedback. The FB suggested that neither reading was accurate. Turns out the reader had used an app rather than physical cards. YMMV. I wholeheartedly admit my bias so take my words with a grain of salt 😉 As per the other, forgive me if I'm out of line--but how would they know if you had a little mini tarot in a tin type deck? It's small. Easily hidden. If the rule is against cards--isn't having them on your phone and the phone in the house just the same? LOL stash some real cards outside and only read at coffeeshops or other places outside of the house?

@Grizabella Thanks! I appreciate the welcome! I've been reading several of the threads in the forum.

I'm late to the welcoming but it's just as warm as the rest. You've come to the right place to learn more and make new friends. I look forward to seeing you around the forum.

I've been browsing the gold foil decks on Amazon. To my surprise I found that there are lots of them but they're all called Gold Foil so I just figured they were all the same. I was wrong. I've now ordered three more decks, all different patterns and trimmed with all different borders and backs. These are spectacular decks so of course I'm collecting them now. I can't help myself. They're so mesmerizing that it's almost like they're alive. The cards are very slippery so you have to develop your workable shuffling tactics but once you get the hang of it they're nice to shuffle. If you drop cards during a shuffle, you can just scoop them up any old which way and you'll have reversals. Speaking of reversals---I don't like just turning a section of cards upside down for reversals. Then you always have the same cards reversed. I've decided to have the sitter draw cards from a fan, keeping all the cards face down. Once they've drawn their cards, then I'll have them draw X number more from the first cards they've drawn, keeping the cards face down and those will be the reversals for that spread . Once the reading is finished, I'll put all the cards all upright again and shuffle a couple times and then put the cards away till the next reading.