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I think that is a very regrettable decision; someone looking for a study group is not going to look to "clubs" which is an area that several here - including me - see as a sort of "members only" thing. Not least because each has an "owner." Please reconsider. ETA They may be "flexible" - whatever that means to you; can't see it myself. But the footfall will be significantly less. Yuu don't go to "clubs" for a study.

No problem at all. I was re-reading the passage of the handbook. About this, she says "All the cards are based on European images; apparent similarities between our deck and other ‘native’ mythologies are because of similarities in early climate and lifestyles. For instance the continent that is now the USA had Ice Ages like Europe with the same prehistoric animals, i.e., mammoth; Przewalski horses and cave bears. A human in bison skin and horns was painted in a French cave (Chauvet) c. 28,000 BCE, echoing the contemporary Native American sacred bison dancers." Apart from that, the creative process of the cards, that tried to trace try to trace the universal archetypes, may have been influenced by images and pictures that she had seen and studied before starting it, I think

Strictly speaking, this wasn't "the original Lenormand look", if we by that refer to Das Spiel der Hoffnung, later renamed Petit Jeu de Mdlle Lenormand (the small Lenormand, 36 cards). This is Grand Jeu de Mdlle Lenormand, the greater Lenormand (52 cards). None of these decks have much, or anything, to do with the historical Marie Anne Lenormand (1772-1843), but were posthumously named after her for commercial purposes – similar to how the name and reputation of Ulrica Arfvidsson (1734-1801, of Verdi fame*) was posthumously used to sell various cartomancy books or magazines in Sweden. *A fictitious version of Arfvidsson (still under the name "Ulrica") is one of the characters –an Alto– in Verdi's Un ballo in maschera (1859).

Ilweran's work that @Rose Lalonde recalled here https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/topic/3316-ilwerans-greenwood-tarot-journal/ seems too be precious not to be included in a "Club". If @ilweran were disposed to put their name as the owner of the club, I would be more than happy to join and try to give my contribution

Oh, wonderful! I didn't see it :) We could also join that thread, if ilweran doesn't mind @cspacediva

Thank you, TekkieTarot. I really appreciate you taking the time to share such a detailed answer. I especially liked the way you described the Empress as someone a person prioritizes, as well as something that is still in the process of being created or brought into being. Those are both good examples of how much the card can shift depending on the context of the reading. Your examples of her showing up in more everyday situations — getting dressed up, feeling feminine, or thinking about how you want to present yourself — were interesting too. That gives me another way to think about how her energy can show up outside of the larger archetypal meanings.

This looks like one lovely challenge. But why does it slumber so? I will meet it with the Visconti.

If you want to make a full study group with threads and things, you can request one here.... We are slowly transitioning all the old groups to the clubs, because they are more flexible to work with. Someone needs to put their name on it as the "owner" of the club and request it on that page above, but then anyone can post and join in and keep it going.

Thank you, Rose. It looks like there's a lot there, so I will dive into that too. I'm already falling out of my chair after reading the first post, because in addition to having a collection of tarot decks, I also have a collection of journals, both blank and filled. I always have several journals going at once--planning journals, reflection journals, nature journals....very special decks get their own dedicated journals, and then I have general tarot journals to keep track of readings for decks that don't have their own journals. Of course none of these are truly distinct categories and one area will bleed into another. I have tried to commit to finishing the journals I already have going before starting another new one. But, this deck is special and a dedicated journal seemed to be called for. I had a already picked out one of my blank journals that I've been holding on to for a few years. Yes, it's the same one @ilweran mentioned--Paperblanks Poetry in Bloom. That is CRAZY!!! To be fair, it does coordinate very nicely with the deck. I am no stranger to these serendipitous moments that happen in tarot, but they still amaze me.

It's the same there, which will be where Llewellyn got it.

If you haven't seen it, @ilweran also has had a journal on the greenwood here for years that links to art sources, etc. You may already know all these sources, but passing along in case it's helpful. Even as someone who knows little about pagan decks, I found it interesting. ilweran's Greenwood Tarot Journal - Tarot, Tea, & Me - A Tarot Reader's Community

Ok, that all sounds good. I think I can handle a card or two a week. Having read Mark Ryan's book in its entirety, I can say that it adds very little, but I can't say that nothing in it has influenced my perception of the cards. However, going forward I will avoid making any direction mention of him or the Wildwood. One thing that I think needs to be addressed from Chesca's book is when she says, "All the cards are based on European images." While the intent to not "steal imagery from other cultures" is admirable, I think there can be little question that she does at times reference works from outside Europe. For example, The Shaman references a photograph from the US (https://www.tworedroses.com/newsletters/newsletter09112015.html)and the 10 of Cups references a woodblock print from Japan (https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/56139). It doesn't bother me that she did this; I consider her apparent breadth of knowledge of the world art to be an asset. I believe these cards tap into something that is both timeless and universal--I just think we should be honest about it. This is going to come up right away because I already have a piece in mind from the US that I think is plausible as a source of inspiration for the image on the Death card. I feel that should at least be open for discussion. Also, I joined the Facebook group that you mentioned and I will start having a look through that.

It's sinking in. Takes time. Asides, I'm far from agreeing here - a lesson in applied diversity is what it is to me so far. On the rest - which I appreciate, by the way - the actual point was quite hard to formulate for me yesterday, let me try again, it'll be brief, more or less: We can afford a period of time when taking to the cards to see how they feel if we have nothing but those cards. We can have a go at them with our childlike sense of wonder. I mean not to stream about that period, or to make it gospel, or toot some horn - I mean to feel it, free from expectation. It is a period. It does pass. It never comes again. But it'll leave us curious, so curious about what's out there, how others fare, how it was and is done, and where the limits are - and which ones can be extended at what price. Might be personal, that one. We are far from perfect in that beginning, we go wrong one step every two steps taken (if we're lucky), we stumble around, stuff leaves us confused while other stuff clears up and hits home - but it's far from taking the wind outta our sails! No! On we go, for we are curious, we crave insight and: We learn to take a hint through our cards, which is what to highlight here. We truly want to learn. They become our cards in the process, and whatever we read afterwards, we'll have life, our experienced reality, to relate to - and that changes things. Talking Lenormands, the quality and density of information in Andy's writings is top-grade to date, don't get me wrong there. What I mean to say is: the above mentioned period is so much beneficial that it deserves mention - preparing the inner soil is what it does, along with becoming precious memory. Timeline for a quick start: Get cards in spring, go crazy in summer, take to Andy's writings in autumn, to your study during winter, sleep some. And then, see what grows come spring.

Sorry, I was talking about the Llewellyn website. I haven't looked at Lo Scarabeo's website.

I only told them a couple of hours ago....

Nope. And judging by the lack of response and the incorrect text still on their website, I'm guessing Llewellyn didn't contact them either.

Did you not contact LoS ? I just did.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, personally. The Master Method is imported from playing cards, as are some other things in Lenormand, like playing card spreads. The former, however, seems quite redundant to me when Lenormand has numbers and its own house method built into it. Where does Lenormand folklore go? One could just perform a reading a la master method with ordinary playing cards. Whatever the house method, if combining cards is the second thing they look at when it's the base of the whole system, to me, it drifts away from what I understand reading Lenormand to be. If they are happy when doing it though, who am I to meddle with people's happiness.... Freesytling at the beginning-- when it comes to anything we learn, really-- seldom produces great results; or so I've seen (in reference to the group you mentioned). Taking in the different voices out there is a necessity for growth; inventing our own things is something I'd give more time to before attempting to do. I am certain that our best teachers today followed their own first before reaching that stage of building a personal connection with their cards and venturing to pass on their own knowledge to the others. Being unique is brilliant, being yourself and having your own opinions is even better. However, I'm not striving to be unique; I love what has been working for a long time and produces results for me, and I share that when someone asks since I agree with every bit of it (not everyone has to, of course). And if that means echoing someone else's voice until I get my bearings, I'm content with it. It's only been a little bit more than half a decade ever since I picked up these cards and chose to stick with them, after all. I am sure being creative is easier for you and other far more experienced readers than I; which is of course always invaluable to observe and also to learn from, dear @Mister

Hi cspacediva :) I'm in your same situation. Daily participation is off to me too. But perhaps we could consider one card/week? I have a couple of pdf copies of Chesca's handbook, that includes the three diagrams and the Wheel. On fb there's a little private group named "The art of Chesca Potter study group" where the admin has shared a lot of links, files her own studies about it etc. I may ask her if I she gives the permission to download the contents she gathered, mentioning the source. In her handbook Chesca says "The Greenwood Tarot is an initiatory cycle. I would advise that you at least once follow the cards and the text around the wheel". So I agree that this is the good point of start. As we are already almost at the half of October, perhaps it's better to start from Samhain, to arrive prepared at the moment? As you already said: Death, The Guardian, Wren, Wolf, and the 7s. We may work on Death on the 1st week of November, The Guardian on the 2nd, Wren on the 3rd Wolf on the 4th, first two of the 7s on the 1st week of December, second two of the 7s on the 2nd week of December. So we should arrive at Winter Solstice. From now to then, we could try to understand the Wheel system itself and/or other general topics related to the introduction of the handbook. I'm very new to this all, but deeply drawn to it. Like you, I'm definitely interested into the art and the artifacts that inspired Chesca but, as you, I have not the background too. I hope we can go through it, anyway, as we can. One thing: I'm not intended at all to consider Ryan's words about the Greenwood nor to mention him or the Wildwood at all.

I went ahead and ordered Tarot of Mystical Moments as a reward for konmaring 99% of the stuff in my closet. It was mostly old school assignments and homework from decades ago, and I did want to keep some sketchbooks and old journals and stuff to have a doorway into what I was like in the past. Also some of it is funny. The rest of the stuff I’ve just gotta do in categories. But I’d been procrastinating and had been too busy for at least two weeks and needed a push so I told myself I’d get this deck if I finished. I’m looking forward to it because it has a unique perspective and take on each card that makes me go “huh!” It looks like it’ll be a little bigger though, but that’s okay. I am running out of space on my tarot cabinet/shelf thing though. I might have found one janky solution but I’m gonna try and look for a taller shelf.

I recently home printed the deck and book too, courtesy of Mi-Shell. I am very drawn to this deck. I need to tread with caution here because the prospect of learning together sounds fabulous, but experience has shown me that these study groups are difficult to sustain, and I'm probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to jumping on board and then ghosting. Daily participation is definitely off the table for me. But if I were to proceed with such an endeavor, I think it would make the most sense to stick with the wheel of the year and study the cards in their seasons. So from now until Samhain, I would look at The Wheel, Reflection, Heron, Reindeer, the 6s. This would probably be the time to throw in The Seer and the 9s as well, although to be honest, that seems like a lot to me, so I could also see saving the center of the wheel for the end. Starting around Samhain, I would switch to Death, The Guardian, Wren, Wolf, and the 7s. I have access to both the Potter and the Ryan versions of the book. I do have a low quality scan/photocopy of Potter's physical book which includes a few diagrams not found on the blog. The archived study group on AT is a good resource too, with some great insights from Mi-Shell and others, although they did not get around to all the cards. I'm also interested in looking into the art and artifacts that inspired Chesca, I just don't have the background to recognize all of them.

Most of the time I don't read reversals, and the way I shuffle keeps the cards all upright. Occasionally, a reversed card will sneak in anyway and then I will go ahead and read it as a reversal. I do spend a lot of time thinking about, selecting, and modifying spreads to fit the question. I used to read with reversals and I found it cumbersome when a negative card (like 10 of Swords) would come up in a blocking position in a spread and then it was reversed. If I was more of a free form reader I probably would use reversals. I tend to think of it like the saying, 'the difference between medicine and poison is the dose.' I think each card contains the a full range of meaning, from medicine to poison, and the question, context, card position, intuition tell me which aspect should be emphasized.

So I applied knighting to this section of the keyboard...