How soon do you recommend starting the grand tableu

[HOLMES]

Hi. One thing that struck me in a recent you tube video in the review of Marcus Katz, Tali Goodwin lenormand book intended for beginners

Learning lenormand

Traditional fortune telling for a modern life

Was the advice to start the gt early

 

"We also reccomend you continue to practice with full tableaux, even if you only read part of them. Do not get into a habit of laying out only a few cards; this sort of laziness leads your brain down a more limited avenue."

 

Like am i missing out on an opportunity by not taking a gt and dividing it up into sections. 

I mean it could a fast learning tool or could it be a beginner mistake. 

 

Like for example the advice is the first 3 cards in the lenormand are important.. seems like a waste of psychic/ spiritual energy to leave all the other information on the table. 

 

I notice marcus doesn't say you have to do gts.. just that you should lay out the gt and just read for your specific information spread you are looking for. 

 

So my question for each person is

1. How soon did you start the gt

2.which did you prefer 8,4 or 9x4 

3.Is the gt your go to spread or something like 5 card. 

4.What did you wish you knew at the beginning that you found out afterwards.

5. What one advice do you suggest to a complete beginner eventually learning the gt. To start practicing

 

I am thinking all is unique but there be some same advice and experiences

I did a quick look to see who all did gts over the past year and tag you.

 

Thanks in advance

 

So @katrinka  @Grizabella @timtoldrum @Rose Lalonde

@fabfranco @GreatDane

@Krystalida @Barleywine

@Aaryn

@DanielJUK

[DownUnderNZer]

 

@HOLMES

 

Got your message. 🌞🌞🌞

 

I think you are asking the right people on the most part as they can provide a whole range of different thoughts and opinions on the topic and what you want to know.

 

I wasnt given the luxury of learning one card at a time and going up from there as I was thrown into the GT from the word go and in the deep end really. It was my teething ring and a swim or sink situation. I didn't exactly learn one card, pairs and lines from A to Z in a flexible environment, but within the GT itself if it makes sense and by working it all out for myself on the most part. 

 

We all learn differently and some may not take to it at all because they can't get passed a few cards or it being 36 cards.

 

Also, some may find it totally overwhelming to be introduced to the Lenormand that way, if thrown in to doing a GT like that, and may give up sooner rather than later. 

 

I took to it like a duck to water and understood it even with limited English, but I really really enjoyed what I was taking on except how limited the GT seemed at about the 3 to 6 month mark.

 

I don't think anyone should hold back if they want to give it a go, but it would be an idea to have the basic core meanings down packed at least. That is important.

 

The only way to really do the GT is by giving it a go and it should be a personal choice as to when!

 

 

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[Guest]

Almost ten years into Lenormand, and I haven't tried a Grand Tableau yet. And I'm not planning to, either. First, I read to myself mostly and I'm not that eager to delve into the deeper scrutiny of things to come. I'm more of "gaining useful messages for further exploration/consideration in my life, using Lenormand as a guide for actions I can take to help mould my future" kind of reader. So, baby steps for now. Lines of three, of five, my "Petites Tableaus" (box of 9). 

 

And also, I just don't like to follow what Katz/Goodwin says: their words are, like Ms.  has written, "nail scratching the board" for me. 

 

Having said that, I don't see why you shouldn't. Go for it, it's YOUR experience! Tell us later what you felt/got.

[HOLMES]

I wasn't going to reply to anyone as each is unique but thanks for sharing about your gt experience. It is another take that it can take as long as one feels comfortable.

[katrinka]

Where Lenormand is concerned, Katz and Goodwin are best taken with a big grain of salt. 
I haven't encountered any competent readers who claim to have been taught by them. None. As a matter of fact, that book was written when they were just beginning to examine Lenormand. They're just making "teaching noises", not saying anything that has merit. Nothing personal, Holmes, but please don't tag me for this kind of nonsense. Their Lenormand "work" should be beneath all of our notice. I already gave my thoughts on the matter once. I don't care to do it over and over. Let it fade into obscurity.

Often only a few cards are needed. There is no reason to clear a space on the table and lay out a whole GT when you just want a quick yes or no, or similar. 
Reading only part of a GT won't prevent "laziness". Doing that habitually IS lazy. 
 

Quote

Like am i missing out on an opportunity by not taking a gt and dividing it up into sections. 

I mean it could a fast learning tool or could it be a beginner mistake. 

 

Like for example the advice is the first 3 cards in the lenormand are important.. seems like a waste of psychic/ spiritual energy to leave all the other information on the table. 

 

To be fair, "only reading part of a GT" involves more than that. If someone asked about their job, you might look at what's around the cards pertaining to work, but skip the others. You'd most likely still look at the boundaries of the spread, knighting, the first three cards, what's after the Key, etc. You just wouldn't pick the whole spread apart. 

If you're not going to do that, then yes, laying out the whole deck is a waste of time.

 

Quote

So my question for each person is

1. How soon did you start the gt

2.which did you prefer 8,4 or 9x4 

3.Is the gt your go to spread or something like 5 card. 

4.What did you wish you knew at the beginning that you found out afterwards.

5. What one advice do you suggest to a complete beginner eventually learning the gt. To start practicing.

 

 

 

 

 

I started doing GTs right away, since they were in the instruction booklets. A person begins with the cards, and they're bad at them for some years, until they get good. The size of their practice spreads isn't going to change that.

The 8x4+4.

I don't have a "go to" spread. I use what's best suited to the situation.
#4, don't remember, and #5, yes, practice, and use good source material. Not Katz-Goodwin.

[katrinka]

14 hours ago, fabfranco said:

Almost ten years into Lenormand, and I haven't tried a Grand Tableau yet. And I'm not planning to, either. First, I read to myself mostly and I'm not that eager to delve into the deeper scrutiny of things to come. I'm more of "gaining useful messages for further exploration/consideration in my life, using Lenormand as a guide for actions I can take to help mould my future" kind of reader. So, baby steps for now. Lines of three, of five, my "Petites Tableaus" (box of 9). 

 

Petit Tableaus, you say? Why not try this? 😁
Note: the Lady fell in the center on her own, you don't preselect any cards.

 

 

It's an old spread I got from Malkiel years ago. You can bring a lot of GT techniques to it (including the Method of Distance) without laying out the whole deck. There's variations, of course - I've seen some people do 7x3+3, and I suppose a 3x3 could qualify as a Petit Tableau, at least according to the translation of the term. But I do like this one. 🙂

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

It seems such a daunting task for a beginner like me. But, who knows? I'm willing to try. 

 

Thanks for showing me that!

[katrinka]

No problem. 
And it's not as hard as people tend to assume. Pick a time frame, lay the cards, read the first three cards, the corners, the cards around the significator, etc. It's a series of little steps rather than a big overwhelming task. Don't put too much emphasis on houses - I've seen beginners read every card in every house - nobody does that! You really don't need houses at all, but if you're going to use them, just read the ones for the significator and important topic cards. 

Here's one way it can be read. Not everyone does it this way (a lot of us put much less emphasis on facing directions, for instance) but you can see how it's broken down into smaller, manageable steps.
 

 

[Guest]

That's quite reassuring! Thanks again, @katrinka

[stephanelli]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:49 AM, HOLMES said:

So my question for each person is

1. How soon did you start the gt

2.which did you prefer 8,4 or 9x4 

3.Is the gt your go to spread or something like 5 card. 

4.What did you wish you knew at the beginning that you found out afterwards.

I know I'm not someone you were specifically asking, but I thought I'd throw in my answers to give a fellow beginners perspective!

Background: I've had my lenormand deck about 2 years or so, I'm fairly confident with reading pairs,  I'm currently learning to read triplets (still).

I've done quite a lot of 3 card draws, a few 5 card cross and a few 9 card square.

 

I tried to do a GT after about a year of using my cards because I was given advice that it would be a great way to learn, similar to the advice you got. 

 

It completely overwhelmed me, there were just too many potential combinations!  I've learnt so much more since then, but I still don't feel ready to take that on again!

[HOLMES]

Oh that is perfectly fine.

The tags was just to get the conversation going.  And so it is open to all. 

I find katrinka advice on a mini tableu to fabfranco to highly helpful as it serves as an excellent bridge between the 9 box portrait and the whole 36 gt.

I haven't tried yet myself.  But perhaps just based on logic it could help In your situation as well. 

Which is another reason why i asked the question to see if anyone else actually took a gt and learned by breaking it up into sections.  I mean.. 

Take the gt and it would take weeks perhaps analyzing thoroughly it section.. like how a chess program analyzes a game for best tactical play. 

I haven't read the book itself but the description and review of beyond the celtic cross also inspired me.

So thanks for your  honest share!  

 

[Guest]

Hello @HOLMES

 

To be honest I am not too sure how helpful I can be. The Grand Tableau was how I learned. The cards were laid out (all 36) and read; from time to time, my Aunt would move a card or two to illustrate nuance but that was it.  I did not encounter any other spread for several years.  Droesbeke included a 3 x 3, but Mary Marco and Jeanine Goffinet included several. I loved their le grand jeu du destin, a three part spread I utilised a lot throughout my teens and twenties. But the Grand Tableau has always been my favourite.

 

 The 8 x 4 + 4, simply as that is what I am most familiar with. But no one (9 x 4, 6 x 4, 12 x 3) is better than the other. 
 

It is not my go to spread, but it is the one I use most. 
 

The one thing I advise people is not to become lost in techniques and use discernment.  Over time techniques such as knighting or houses have become rote. But all too often they are misunderstood or overused. For example, houses only take the essence or core of a card. So there is no house that corresponds to work. In addition, when people talk about “on” they don’t understand how houses work.  Houses are like a card’s domicile. You are in their domain. 
 

If you can read three cards, you have the basics. You can then move to the 3 x 3.  It is eight trios and will teach you vertical and diagonal combinations.  You can then go into the GT.  

 

Start at the top left, and go across — if you’re using the 9 x 4 that’s three trios or eight pairs.  When you end a line, you go to the next. The main narrative expands as you go along.  For example, in a 9 x 4, card ten will say a bit more about card one as it is beneath it.  I don’t divide GTs into past, present or future. I see them as present and future (which was the traditional way). 
 

The choice on when is all yours. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Guest

[HOLMES]

I think it is very helpful.  The part about not reading the past and how some can get boggled down in technique. 

 

[katrinka]

29 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

The one thing I advise people is not to become lost in techniques and use discernment.  Over time techniques such as knighting or houses have become rote. But all too often they are misunderstood or overused.

So. Much. This.
All of those things are options for getting more information, yet people seem to have gotten the idea that you have to do everything with every card.
But if you overdo, it all starts to get redundant. And very, very tedious. Not only for us, but for our sitters. Does anyone really think they want to listen to all that?
 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I think it is very helpful.  The part about not reading the past and how some can get boggled down in technique. 

 

If someone is interested in a specific ongoing topic or situation then I divide the GT into PPF. But for the most part it is unnecessary.

The GT is a mirror of a querent’s life — it shows the different threads of Fate with cards being the events, circumstances or processes that occur on that strand. These threads intersect showing how different strands meet and effect each other. That’s why it is the big picture: it’s a snapshot of true reality. 

10 hours ago, katrinka said:

So. Much. This.
All of those things are options for getting more information, yet people seem to have gotten the idea that you have to do everything with every card.
But if you overdo, it all starts to get redundant. And very, very tedious. Not only for us, but for our sitters. Does anyone really think they want to listen to all that?
 

Yes. I cannot understand this 36 mini predictions (houses) and so on.
 

It is pointless as it becomes not only vague but messy, and you just end up missing out the important stuff.

[Rose Lalonde]

A bit off topic, but I just saw that @timtoldrum is here and wanted to say thank you for a course you taught years ago in exchange for only a suggested donation to a cause. What I learned has stuck with me and helped with both clarity and confidence.  Now I see you're offering some of the material at your thepetitlenormand site too.  Thank you for your generosity. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Rose Lalonde

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

A bit off topic, but I just saw that @timtoldrum is here and wanted to say thank you for a course you taught years ago in exchange for only a suggested donation to a cause. What I learned has stuck with me and helped with both clarity and confidence.  Now I see you're offering some of the material at your thepetitlenormand site too.  Thank you for your generosity. 

 

You're very kind, @Rose Lalonde.  I am glad to have helped.

[Krystalida]

Hey there! hope is ok for stepping in late 🙂

I also started right away with the GT, I tried both ways to see what works better for me, and 9x4 seems to be, I believe though is because I m not in a position to understand the 4 last cards in the 8x4, I am planning to retry it.

I do the GT every 2 -3 months for general readings I take a phot and I go very often to analyse and see what happened, I also read around so I try different ways to understand, I think the best teacher apart from a real good teacher, is experience, like Tarot, you practice and you make perfect with time.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Krystalida said:

I do the GT every 2 -3 months for general readings I take a phot and I go very often to analyse and see what happened, I also read around so I try different ways to understand, I think the best teacher apart from a real good teacher, is experience, like Tarot, you practice and you make perfect with time.

It is true. The cards will teach you, if you’re open to them and honest.