gregory Posted January 29 Posted January 29 This is true - but nobody who wasn't already in it would think to sign up !
Troll Posted January 29 Author Posted January 29 1 hour ago, katrinka said: Thanks, but there really aren't any experts. You could do this your whole life and never get to the bottom of it. That`s fantastic to hear .My first go at tarot 20 years ago was awful because I thought you can do it only esoteric \mystic way . But now knowing you can use it to talk to your subconscious/soul .The possibilities are endless
Nemia Posted January 30 Posted January 30 On 1/29/2025 at 1:37 AM, katrinka said: You don't employ them, but your interpretations always seem to fall within the bounds of them anyway. I'm guessing because you love Tarot and you've been sponging it up for years? A properly illustrated Tarot deck is an expression of the intended meanings anyway. All roads lead to Rome, etc. It's a card of poverty and hardship. "Doing without." While your friend might have been able to afford doctors, she was still "doing without" because she didn't like them. Same result as that little feral kitten with the bad eye. The Baba decks work because Karen knows RWS so well. A person with no Tarot experience whatsoever could probably draw a card and come up with something close to what Waite intended. Not all decks are like that. Here's a card from the notoriously awful Beautiful Creatures Tarot: 2 of Waters should be 2 of Cups, right? I'm not seeing 2 of Cups here. I'm seeing a pregnant woman with a plague doctor. He's holding her hand, she's rolling her eyes. Oh my, there's plague going around! She's probably worried about her baby. Why is the cat grinning? Will it slay the evil rats who bring fleas, or does it have fleas itself that will infect everyone? The card doesn't say "love" to me. 🤣 Do cards like this give you the same accuracy rate that you get with normal cards? I can't believe I'm doing this because I really dislike the aesthetics of this deck... but it does work for me because I know the original work of art, Jan van Eyck's Arnolfini Wedding. It's a much-discussed work, the woman is not pregnant (that's just her luxurious gown), and her husband/future husband holds her hand gently. The whole painting is filled with religious and domestic symbolism: a single burning candle, a convex mirror that allows us to see ourselves i.e. the artist, a carved St. Margaret and the dragon, wooden clogs worn only in the home... and some beautiful oranges. Fruits of paradise? Memories of Italy for an Italian couple in Bruges? Symbols of wealth? But the deck artist BUTCHERED the painting and I could never read with it. And by butchering it, she made it impossible for non-van-Eyck fans to "see" the card. So this is further proof that you are right - this is not a functional deck. Amazingly, many decks can and do work. Everything works together. The core meaning that my brain retains from reading many books and doing many readings is one factor. The individual card with its colours, atmosphere, symbols and composition is another. Ideally, they work together. They connect with the other cards in the reading, with spread positions, the question and many other factors. When they intersect, you get a reading that gives you more information than you had before. It's a philosophical question whether the tarot gives you information from outside yourself, or information you didn't want to know before, i.e., information already inside your head. I'd say you can get both. You can get access to knowledge that you repressed or pushed back before - the card will put it before you and you'll have to admit, yes, I can't run away from this any more. But you can also tap into the collective unconscious or a divine connection and get information there that is truly new. Both roads are pretty amazing. It's a crossroads. And crossroads are magical. I'm 60 years old and many things have come into my life, have kept my interest for a while and moved out again. Not tarot. Tarot came into my life when I was very young, and it has stayed. There is always a new layer, another insight, the cards give comfort, encouragement, brutal truth, and access to very interesting people. Tarot places on the net are filled mainly with people who like to reflect on life, truth, compassion and responsibility. It's also a place where we remain novices and students. Novices with or without experience. But every reading is new.
Scandinavianhermit Posted January 30 Posted January 30 On 1/28/2025 at 8:56 PM, katrinka said: Keywords are training wheels. Essences are what the cards just are. I'm very grateful for this summary. I've tried for years to express this.
Scandinavianhermit Posted January 30 Posted January 30 9 hours ago, Nemia said: Amazingly, many decks can and do work. Everything works together. The core meaning that my brain retains from reading many books and doing many readings is one factor. The individual card with its colours, atmosphere, symbols and composition is another. Ideally, they work together. They connect with the other cards in the reading, with spread positions, the question and many other factors. When they intersect, you get a reading that gives you more information than you had before. Thank you for putting this into words!
katrinka Posted January 30 Posted January 30 (edited) 10 hours ago, Nemia said: I can't believe I'm doing this because I really dislike the aesthetics of this deck... but it does work for me because I know the original work of art, Jan van Eyck's Arnolfini Wedding. It's a much-discussed work, the woman is not pregnant (that's just her luxurious gown), and her husband/future husband holds her hand gently. The whole painting is filled with religious and domestic symbolism: a single burning candle, a convex mirror that allows us to see ourselves i.e. the artist, a carved St. Margaret and the dragon, wooden clogs worn only in the home... and some beautiful oranges. Fruits of paradise? Memories of Italy for an Italian couple in Bruges? Symbols of wealth? I read someplace that they're from the merchant class, "new money" at the time. They were trying to be accepted in high society but it wasn't happening then. They're still perfectly respectable people. It's a gorgeous painting, I really like how the artist captured the light. Here it is, click to expand it for a closer look. 10 hours ago, Nemia said: But the deck artist BUTCHERED the painting and I could never read with it. And by butchering it, she made it impossible for non-van-Eyck fans to "see" the card. So this is further proof that you are right - this is not a functional deck. It's a truly bizarre and unreadable deck. Kelly at Truth In Story panned it, and she normally likes everything: And I just can't do a big Betty Boop-esque bobble head with the Shroud of Turin for the 9 of Wands. 8 of Waters is just levitating in front of a nighttime city scene. Is she the ghost of a runaway? A flying hooker? We may never know. Of course most of the cards are not scenic, all you get is a face with big sad watery eyes, again and again. Reading this thing off the pictures might be hilarious, it might be cringe...no idea. But it doesn't seem functional. Maybe @gregory can "to be fair" this thing. I can't, nor do I have a desire to do so. 10 hours ago, Nemia said: Tarot came into my life when I was very young, and it has stayed. There is always a new layer, another insight, the cards give comfort, encouragement, brutal truth, and access to very interesting people. Yes, most of us are lifers! We may have phases where we let the decks lie fallow, but we always return. Edited January 30 by katrinka
geoxena Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) 15 hours ago, katrinka said: 8 of Waters is just levitating in front of a nighttime city scene. Is she the ghost of a runaway? A flying hooker? We may never know. LOL! I vote for flying hooker! (Oh, and what a horrible deck! Yuck!) Edited January 31 by geoxena
katrinka Posted January 31 Posted January 31 8 hours ago, geoxena said: LOL! I vote for flying hooker! (Oh, and what a horrible deck! Yuck!) It's so bad, it's comical. But I'll laugh at it online. I would NOT spend money on this thing!
Troll Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 Amazing that how we all dislike one particular deck even we all read differently
Troll Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 19)I was reading and my reading would make sense only if last card would be queen ,because queen is patience ,and yes last card I drew was queen .Not the first time it happened ,but it is cool thing . Does it happen often to you pro`s ?Knowing what the next card will be ?
DanielJUK Posted February 6 Posted February 6 You should definitely play the lottery more regularly @Troll, especially if you get a sense of the numbers 😊
Troll Posted February 6 Author Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, DanielJUK said: You should definitely play the lottery more regularly @Troll, especially if you get a sense of the numbers 😊 Maybe ,but you know my life is in such a bad\good place that even 10 million wont change it. But these card premonitions don`t change the fact that I still believe that cards you draw are random ,and only your thinking and feelings about them isn`t ,and you should concentrate solely on that.
Barleywine Posted February 7 Posted February 7 Hmm . . . we could say that "glorp" is just glop but a little juicier. I ate plenty of glop while in the Army. "Glorp" is what it became when you found you couldn't keep it down. 🙂
katrinka Posted February 7 Posted February 7 (edited) Out here in the non-military world, glorp is a good thing. It's kind of a gestalt. You see the cards and WHAP, you know what they're saying without having to think about it. That's my understanding, anyway. @gregory could probably explain it better. It kind of IS intuition, in the true sense of the word. I've used this analogy before: if you're driving and an animal jumps out in the road in front of you, you don't consciously think "Now I am going to take my foot off the gas. I am going to steer a bit to the side and hit the clutch and the brakes..." Your body just does that, like a reflex. That's what intuition actually is, not psychism or making stuff up. It comes with experience, whether you're a system reader or you read off the pictures or both. That's what glorp is, too. You're looking at that big messy layout of good and bad and people and things and yadda yadda, and all of a sudden BAM, you know. May the glorp hit us generously and on the regular. And no worries: it won't get on your shoes. Edited February 8 by katrinka
gregory Posted February 8 Posted February 8 9 hours ago, Barleywine said: Hmm . . . we could say that "glorp" is just glop but a little juicier. I ate plenty of glop while in the Army. "Glorp" is what it became when you found you couldn't keep it down. 🙂 Well thanks a lot. Do feel free to suggest an alternative. 8 hours ago, katrinka said: Out here in the non-military world, glorp is a good thing. It's kind of a gestalt. You see the cards and WHAP, you know what they're saying without having to think about it. That's my understanding, anyway. @gregory could probably explain it better. It kind of IS intuition, in the true sense of the word. I've used this analogy before: if you're driving and an animal jumps out in the road in front of you, you don't consciously think "Now I am going to take my foot off the gas. I am going to steer a bit to the side and hit the clutch and the brakes..." Your body just does that, like a reflex. That's what intuition actually is, not psychism or making stuff up. It comes with experience, whether you're a system reader or you read off the pictures or both. That's what glorp is, too. You're looking at that big messy layout of good and bad and people and things and yadda yadda, and all of a sudden BAM, you know. May the glorp hit us generously and on the regular. And no worries: it won't get on your shoes. Thanks, @katrinka It does work for me; doing it "by the book" always slows me down and gets inythe wat.
Barleywine Posted February 8 Posted February 8 I was just having a little fun. Having done this stuff for over 50 years (almost as long as gregory), I find that the gestalt thing happens automatically or "as a matter of course." I didn't know it had - or needed - any other name.
gregory Posted February 8 Posted February 8 I do not read by the gestalt method. That is a quite specific term and has nothing to do with the way I read. And I didn't invent the term glorp - that was the wonderful firemaiden - and I shall carry on using it, as homage to her as well as the fact that people get it.
JoyousGirl Posted February 8 Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, gregory said: the fact that people get it. Is it a fact? Do people "get it" if it's not explained to them? It's nice to homage, but there's enough clique in the world as it is. You'd have to explain it to everyone who's never heard it before - and that would be tiresome. And I'm sure there's more immediately understood words in existence already. My immediate thoughts of glorp is more the military slop than intuitive hit.
fire cat pickles Posted February 8 Posted February 8 (edited) Can anyone locate FM's original glorp thread(s) on AT and link them here? ETA More appropriately open a new thread? Edited February 8 by fire cat pickles
Barleywine Posted February 9 Posted February 9 48 minutes ago, fire cat pickles said: Can anyone locate FM's original glorp thread(s) on AT and link them here? Excellent idea. I don't have much interest in parochial terminology, but it would set the record straight.
gregory Posted February 9 Posted February 9 (edited) 19 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: Is it a fact? Do people "get it" if it's not explained to them? It's nice to homage, but there's enough clique in the world as it is. You'd have to explain it to everyone who's never heard it before - and that would be tiresome. And I'm sure there's more immediately understood words in existence already. My immediate thoughts of glorp is more the military slop than intuitive hit. They get it in the same was as they get gematria or elementals when you define the word for them, and then it's an easy word to use. What would you suggest ! Anything suggesting "intuition" is not OK as it suggests other readers don't use intuition - which they do. Firemaiden DID coin the word, and I will try and find it'; I think it was in with the cosmic toaster at one point, much of which seems to be gone- as it was in chat: https://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=11765 but why would it matter if she didn't ? The first references I've found are from Splungeman and umbrae - but she did start it. Grizabella suggests psychic instead - but that doesn't fit either. It isn't a word I invented, but it is useful. Here's one of the threads where the word is extensively used (I note I embraced it there !): https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/books-vs-no-books.89767 19 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: Is it a fact? Do people "get it" if it's not explained to them? It's nice to homage, but there's enough clique in the world as it is. You'd have to explain it to everyone who's never heard it before - and that would be tiresome. And I'm sure there's more immediately understood words in existence already. My immediate thoughts of glorp is more the military slop than intuitive hit. What word would you suggest ? And how to make sure that it would it be instantly understood by all, anyway - you can't use intuitive or psychic as they embrace all sorts that are not exclusive to this reading method. Edited February 9 by gregory
fire cat pickles Posted February 9 Posted February 9 3 hours ago, gregory said: They get it in the same was as they get gematria or elementals when you define the word for them, and then it's an easy word to use. What would you suggest ! Anything suggesting "intuition" is not OK as it suggests other readers don't use intuition - which they do. Firemaiden DID coin the word, and I will try and find it'; I think it was in with the cosmic toaster at one point, much of which seems to be gone- as it was in chat: https://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=11765 but why would it matter if she didn't ? The first references I've found are from Splungeman and umbrae - but she did start it. Grizabella suggests psychic instead - but that doesn't fit either. It isn't a word I invented, but it is useful. Here's one of the threads where the word is extensively used (I note I embraced it there !): https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/books-vs-no-books.8976 What word would you suggest ? And how to make sure that it would it be instantly understood by all, anyway - you can't use intuitive or psychic as they embrace all sorts that are not exclusive to this reading method. I will read through these and think about how to go ahead with a possible study group/where to post etc. later. Busy getting a new phone...
Barleywine Posted February 9 Posted February 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, gregory said: It isn't a word I invented, but it is useful. Here's one of the threads where the word is extensively used (I note I embraced it there !): https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/books-vs-no-books.8976 Unfortunately I got a 404-Not Found error when I tried to open the link. Do you think you could summarize? I also don't see why a study group is necessary unless we expand it into a range of similar reading techniques. I don't think too much about how and why it flows, I just do it. Maybe we could call it the "rhythm method;" I tend to see waves and cross-currents in the interaction of the cards in a reading. (But I draw my inspiration from the Lenormand Grand Tableau, which I think of as showing "ripples on a pond" between the various topic hubs.) Edited February 9 by Barleywine
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