Hi there!

I am interested to know if there is a system of "cross referencing" pip cards, so that the suits mean general things/topics, and then the numbers and face cards also have general meaning. Let's say coins are associated with resources/money and aces are associated with luck or things turning for the better - then the meaning of ace of coins gives itself. 🙂

Yes, violá. That is how the tarot is structured.

 

Ace through 10 is often viewed as cycle, with a beginning in the ace, and with ups and downs along the way to reach the ten.

Oh I forgot: I have my own interpretation of suits, and it would be great to know what you think:

 

Swords - Or Knives, Spades (Spada = sword). The “knightly” suit of old; ambition, aggression, striving, hunting, duty and honor. Often associated with masculinity.

Cups - Also called Chalices or Hearts. Faith, wisdom, love, romance, and healing. Often associated with femininity.

Coins - Or Pentacles, Diamonds. Resources, wealth, profit, beauty, greed, lust.

Wands - Or Staves, Clubs. Down-to-earth pursuits such as farming, sports, hobbies, creativity and fertility. However, also the occult.

16 minutes ago, McFaire said:

Yes, violá. That is how the tarot is structured.

 

Ace through 10 is often viewed as cycle, with a beginning in the ace, and with ups and downs along the way to reach the ten.

Good to know. Is there a good overview somewhere?

7 minutes ago, Royalalbatross said:

Oh I forgot: I have my own interpretation of suits, and it would be great to know what you think:

 

Swords - Or Knives, Spades (Spada = sword). The “knightly” suit of old; ambition, aggression, striving, hunting, duty and honor. Often associated with masculinity.

 

 

Cups - Also called Chalices or Hearts. Faith, wisdom, love, romance, and healing. Often associated with femininity.

 

 

 

Coins - Or Pentacles, Diamonds. Resources, wealth, profit, beauty, greed, lust.

 

 

 

Wands - Or Staves, Clubs. Down-to-earth pursuits such as farming, sports, hobbies, creativity and fertility. However, also the occult.

 

 

Generally, yes. I would add that

Swords: traditionally the Air suit, power of thought and speech, conflict (usually mental)

Cups, Water: add artistry, dreaming, inner world, psy

Coins/Shields, Earth: add health, prosperity, abundance, hearth and home

Wands, Fire: ambition, drive, ideas, enterprises, endeavors, adventures, careers

 

Wands and Swords are usually associated with masculine energy and cups and coins with feminine energy, but not necessarily with gender, more like duality, cause and effect, giving and receiving

 

In your example of farming, I think the planting of seeds would be seen as Wands, watering and fertilizing in the Cups, selecting crops and methods, and fighting parasites and pilferers in the Swords, and in the Coins, preparing the soil, fertilizing, weeding, harvesting.

 

Over time, everyone develops their own internal system of correspondences

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Royalalbatross said:

Good to know. Is there a good overview somewhere?

Any good introductory tarot book will discuss this.

 

Here's a topic with some recommendations:

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts! I realize that my associations are a bit different, although I have found some general patterns to the four suits in various books and sources.

 

So I guess the problem is the numbers in general; I haven't seen general patterns to what the twos and threes etc are interpreted as, irrespective of suit. I remember someone mentioning four is stability, but that's all for overall patterns so far. Most books just list each card meaning.

Here is a list that is derived from a blend of Pythagorean, Qabalistic and common (as typically used in tarot) number theory. The number influences are modified according to suit.

 

Ace: A period of preparing to begin.
Two: A period of commencement and compromise.
Three: A period of growth and progress.
Four: A period of consolidation.
Five: A period of challenge and upset.
Six: A period of harmony restored.
Seven: A period of pursuing and testing new options.
Eight: A period of adjustment and anxiety.
Nine: A period of re-centering and reconciliation.
Ten: A period of rest and relative inactivity.

Edited July 5, 20197 yr by Barleywine

46 minutes ago, Royalalbatross said:

So I guess the problem is the numbers in general; I haven't seen general patterns to what the twos and threes etc are interpreted as, irrespective of suit. I remember someone mentioning four is stability, but that's all for overall patterns so far. Most books just list each card meaning.

I believe Yoav Ben-Dov covers numbers in his book, Tarot- The Open Reading. It's a wonderful book for many other reasons, but his treatment of the pips and courts in particular are practical and concise.

26 minutes ago, Barleywine said:

Here is a list that is derived from a blend of Pythagorean, Qabalistic and common (as typically used in tarot) number theory. The number influences are modified according to suit.

 

Ace: A period of preparing to begin.
Two: A period of commencement and compromise.
Three: A period of growth and progress.
Four: A period of consolidation.
Five: A period of challenge and upset.
Six: A period of harmony restored.
Seven: A period of pursuing and testing new options.
Eight: A period of adjustment and anxiety.
Nine: A period of re-centering and reconciliation.
Ten: A period of rest and relative inactivity.

Thanks! That's a nice list. I recognize some of the interpretations from some videos I have seen.

 

Marcia Masino covers the numbers in Easy Tarot Guide.

 

I'm sure there are other books that do.

 

The DruidCraft book does.

8 minutes ago, McFaire said:

Marcia Masino covers the numbers in Easy Tarot Guide.

 

I'm sure there are other books that do.

 

The DruidCraft book does.

The DruidCraft companion book is quite good in this regard. The last I knew, you could still get the set (cards and book) as long as you specify the right one when ordering.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I should have mentioned: I am definitely partial towards older "pip" decks, and those styles; rather than decks that are based on styles after ca 1900. There are exceptions, and I am pretty new to this.

 

I would also be very interested if there are any useful guides to the tarot written before 1900, just to see what people's thoughts on the cards were back when these types of cards were more in style.

 

55 minutes ago, Royalalbatross said:

Thanks for the suggestions!

I should have mentioned: I am definitely partial towards older "pip" decks, and those styles; rather than decks that are based on styles after ca 1900. There are exceptions, and I am pretty new to this.

 

I would also be very interested if there are any useful guides to the tarot written before 1900, just to see what people's thoughts on the cards were back when these types of cards were more in style.

 

The book mentioned by @mrpants, Yoav Ben-Dov. I believe the new edition of it is the one mentioned here

 

 

Also, Robert Place's The Tarot: History, Symbolism and Divination is a good one

I may have misunderstood the question, @Royalalbatross. Are you looking for a book that was written pre-1900?

 

The books I mentioned above go into the historical meaning of tarot, pre-20th century, but they weren't written back then.

25 minutes ago, McFaire said:

I may have misunderstood the question, @Royalalbatross. Are you looking for a book that was written pre-1900?

 

The books I mentioned above go into the historical meaning of tarot, pre-20th century, but they weren't written back then.

I was thinking published pre-1900, but I looked up Ben-Dov and he looks like he knows what he's talking about 🙂

31 minutes ago, Royalalbatross said:

I was thinking published pre-1900, but I looked up Ben-Dov and he looks like he knows what he's talking about 🙂

I like that book a lot.

 

If you want a more detailed historical account that goes back to the Renaissance, I'd recommend Robert Place.

 

Thanks again! I'm waiting for Place's book in the mail 🙂

I have already ordered a bunch of stuff, but now I am very inclined to order Ben-Dov's materials too. Saw a little video, and I'm loving this guy. Too bad he passed away, but maybe the income from his cards and books still will go to his family?

This is also a modern book but quite useful to read if you are interested in the older decks - Untold Tarot by Caitlin Matthews.

 

If you want to get a grasp on number symbolism of earlier periods, try Medieval Number Symbolism by Vincent Foster Hopper. 

5 minutes ago, Royalalbatross said:

Thanks again! I'm waiting for Place's book in the mail 🙂

I have already ordered a bunch of stuff, but now I am very inclined to order Ben-Dov's materials too. Saw a little video, and I'm loving this guy. Too bad he passed away, but maybe the income from his cards and books still will go to his family?

Yes I'm sure the family holds the copyright. The book is really nice, full color, and only $10 on Amazon US, a great value.

2 minutes ago, Flaxen said:

This is also a modern book but quite useful to read if you are interested in the older decks - Untold Tarot by Caitlin Matthews.

 

If you want to get a grasp on number symbolism of earlier periods, try Medieval Number Symbolism by Vincent Foster Hopper. 

These sound very interesting

 

 

7 hours ago, Royalalbatross said:

Thanks for the suggestions!

I should have mentioned: I am definitely partial towards older "pip" decks, and those styles; rather than decks that are based on styles after ca 1900. There are exceptions, and I am pretty new to this.

 

I would also be very interested if there are any useful guides to the tarot written before 1900, just to see what people's thoughts on the cards were back when these types of cards were more in style.

 

I believe most of the older stuff is in French and has yet to be translated. I have several books on "pip" decks: Caitlin Matthews' Untold Tarot (which is good but not the "last word" I hoped it would be); Yoav Ben-Dov's excellent Open Reading, which has been reissued with a new title (so don't buy both); Camelia Elias' Marseille Tarot (OK but not the best of the lot); Jean Michel David's course material (available in book form but also as a much less expensive download from Lulu); Cherry Gilchrist's Tarot Triumphs (quite good but limited to the trump cards); Alejandro Jodorowsky's Way of Tarot (he writes the way he used to make films: surrealistically); and far and away my favorite (but it is quite difficult from a number-theory perspective), Joseph Maxwell's The Tarot. I intend to get my hands on Enrique Enriquez's Tarology since I liked what I saw in his documentary. And I'm still hoping Andy Boroveshengra is going to put out the TdM book he mentioned some time ago. While I'm waiting for the ultimate book on the subject, I put together my own take on the TdM pip cards; here's an example:

 

https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/2019/06/02/a-tarot-de-marseille-pips-overview-the-ambitious-and-combative-batons/

Edited July 6, 20197 yr by Barleywine

4 hours ago, McFaire said:

These sound very interesting

 

 

Here is a brief review I wrote on Untold Tarot.

 

https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/2019/02/06/morning-coffee-and-caitlin/

 

I also have Medieval Number Symbolism but found it entirely too religiously-biased for my taste. I couldn't read it.

On 7/6/2019 at 3:40 AM, Barleywine said:

Here is a brief review I wrote on Untold Tarot.

 

https://parsifalswheeldivination.com/2019/02/06/morning-coffee-and-caitlin/

 

I also have Medieval Number Symbolism but found it entirely too religiously-biased for my taste. I couldn't read it.

Many thanks for your views on this! Do you prefer Yoav Ben-Dov's take on the TdM?

6 hours ago, Royalalbatross said:

Many thanks for your views on this! Do you prefer Yoav Ben-Dov's take on the TdM?

I've read The Open Reading twice now and will most likely read it again. If I recall, it's a little too anal in dealing with the minutiae in the decorative embellishments (that is, the flowers, leaves and branches) on the pip cards, but overall I think he added a lot to my understanding.