Raggydoll Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, ilweran said: On a tangent I do find it interesting when people get offended on another countries/cultures behalf. Related to this is a tendency then in the press to ask one or two people's opinion on this and then assume that is the opinion of everyone from that country/culture. Its true. I know Benebell Wen has said that her white colleagues are better at demanding diversity in tarot decks than she is, and she has also spoken about how people often want permission from a person from the culture that they are interested in - like if a single person can represent their entire culture and say that "yes, it is fine for you to sell your homemade dream catchers". And you often see that notion in books on shamanism etc. The author, who tends to be white, has a friend (or a second cousin) that is a native shaman or a native american or.. etc and this person might even have co-written the book with them to some extent that is not specified. And then this person is the seal of approval that their method is authentic and OK. And I do get that it might seem odd when someone like me speaks up and tries to start a discussion around diversity and cultural appropriation. Because do we really need the voice of another white person? Well, someone wise once said to me that every single person has a platform. And we should use that platform to the best of our abilities in order to serve the greater good. So that is what I am trying to do, in my own very small and imperfect way. I know that I often lack the right terminology and that I do not have any personal experiences from being a minority or being discriminated against. I have never suffered racism. But I do not want to sit in silence and do nothing. And by opening up discussions like this one I hope that those that DO know racism and prejudice and that have had their culture misappropriated is encouraged or enabled to share their thoughts and experiences. And I hope that this is also how it comes across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Raggydoll said: And when I thought about how entitled we westerners feel to have every sacred text from every part of the world translated into english... and then to know that a huge portion of the people who the religion is native to, cannot read those same texts. It just hurts. Yes. I completely agree. There's a sense of entitlement and that one can have anything if one throws enough money at it. It's a really horrible attitude. And in a capitalist world, the First Nations tradition of not paying for spiritual teachings and healings just wouldn't work. Not for those who want and need to make money to live. Supply and demand means more time needs to be devoted to providing the means to disseminate the information or whatever and connect with paying customers, and money is required to support whatever infrastructure is used. Too many seekers; too much time; the need to pay bills. There's a faith healer not far from where I used to live in Ireland. He did not accept money for his healings. He had a "day job" that paid the bills. Perhaps some well-intentioned individuals want to share something they have a deep love and respect for, but then they find a huge demand for what they're sharing and all of a sudden it becomes a capitalist-based business. It becomes their day job and needs to pay the bills. It's a slippery slope because now it is no longer simply a respect for something sacred. It's for personal profit. Edited December 11, 2019 by Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: Well, someone wise once said to me that every single person has a platform. And we should use that platform to the best of our abilities in order to serve the greater good. So that is what I am trying to do, in my own very small and imperfect way. I know that I often lack the right terminology and that I do not have any personal experiences from being a minority or being discriminated against. I have never suffered racism. But I do not want to sit in silence and do nothing. And by opening up discussions like this one I hope that those that DO know racism and prejudice and that have had their culture misappropriated is encouraged or enabled to share their thoughts and experiences. And I hope that this is also how it comes across. I think It's a very kind, generous sentiment. I do wonder, though, if people who are from minority cultures feel safe expressing their thoughts and experiences in a mixed-culture forum? I think this is a wonderful community, but I could understand someone not wanting to expose all their hurt and anger and grief here. Sometimes you only feel safe sharing that with people who have gone through it as well, people who "get it". Edited December 11, 2019 by Starlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoife Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I think there are some things that are blatantly obvious, and flagrantly offensive - usually cynically money-motivated. Its when things start to get a bit a less obvious that I struggle. Stuff like - who speaks for a community/culture? By whose authority... in whose name? On occasion its not been acknowledged leaders but people with self-aggrandising issues... while 'the community' seethes. I'm hopefully not going off at a tangent but I'm thinking about the furore around the novelist Lionel Shriver, and the issue of cultural mis/appropriation in literature. Interesting article - https://standpointmag.co.uk/screen-nick-cohen-lionel-shriver-brisbane-writers-festival-cultural-appropriation/ And it raises the question for me as to whether I'm equipped to, or morally entitled to read Tarot for people whose cultural background is different from mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggydoll Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, Aoife said: I think there are some things that are blatantly obvious, and flagrantly offensive - usually cynically money-motivated. Its when things start to get a bit a less obvious that I struggle. Stuff like - who speaks for a community/culture? By whose authority... in whose name? On occasion its not been acknowledged leaders but people with self-aggrandising issues... while 'the community' seethes. I'm hopefully not going off at a tangent but I'm thinking about the furore around the novelist Lionel Shriver, and the issue of cultural mis/appropriation in literature. Interesting article - https://standpointmag.co.uk/screen-nick-cohen-lionel-shriver-brisbane-writers-festival-cultural-appropriation/ And it raises the question for me as to whether I'm equipped to, or morally entitled to read Tarot for people whose cultural background is different from mine. My own thoughts on that question is this - we are all members of the same race; the human race. Yes, there are some topics that are incredibly difficult and that some of us can never relate to. But almost all readings that I have ever done have been around the core fundamental experiences of human existence. I feel that it is important to not segregate people further in our efforts to right the previous wrongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Aoife said: And it raises the question for me as to whether I'm equipped to, or morally entitled to read Tarot for people whose cultural background is different from mine. The more our present "civilisation" comes to an end - the more we just see the ruins of it - the more desperate people are to retain whatever sense of integrity or sense of truth that they still cling to. I find this kind of talk almost frightening, what I quoted I mean. Everyone is becoming more and more insular. All over the world people seem to be moving towards a desperate need for some kind of identity and god forbid that the identities mingle and merge. No mixed marriages please (metaphorically). At the very extreme, it can lead to identitarian movements and societies. In Europe we're faced with this fast growing identitarian movement. It doesn't lead to tolerance but exclusion and isolation. I'm all for mixed marriages as I'm sure everyone on this forum is. (I grew up in a country where the literal ones were strictly forbidden - you could go to jail if you had sex with someone of the opposite "race" - god I hate that word. Those were dark dark dark times and sometimes there was no light at all.) Edited December 11, 2019 by Marigold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilweran Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: And I do get that it might seem odd when someone like me speaks up and tries to start a discussion around diversity and cultural appropriation. Starting a general conversation is a bit different to being offended on behalf of someone else. There was an event I attended for work once and a member of staff from another organisation made a fuss and got a performance changed in case it offended a trans woman present. She was more offended by his intervention. 48 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: I know that I often lack the right terminology and that I do not have any personal experiences from being a minority or being discriminated against. I have never suffered racism. No neither have I. The nearest I've come to it is the anti-immigrant rhetoric as I'm the grand-daughter of a Belgian refugee, but of course it's not directed at me. I must admit I have enjoyed pointing it out to people who have mentioned their feelings on immigration to me. Edited December 11, 2019 by ilweran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoife Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: Yes, there are some topics that are incredibly difficult and that some of us can never relate to. But almost all readings that I have ever done have been around the core fundamental experiences of human existence. I feel that it is important to not segregate people further in our efforts to right the previous wrongs. Yup - I'm in full agreement. But... I take the view that I don't have to have shared the experience of the person I'm reading for, but I do have to be able to relate to it. But what if empathy isn't enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggydoll Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Aoife said: Yup - I'm in full agreement. But... I take the view that I don't have to have shared the experience of the person I'm reading for, but I do have to be able to relate to it. But what if empathy isn't enough? I think it boils down to how you read the cards. I tend to just share what I see, so I guess you can call it more 'fortune telling' than anything else. But this is a topic definitely worth its own arena and if you want to explore it further then please feel free to start a thread in Tarot talk. My hope is that this thread can remain more general and include all sorts of spiritual beliefs and practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 hours ago, ilweran said: On a tangent I do find it interesting when people get offended on another countries/cultures behalf. Related to this is a tendency then in the press to ask one or two people's opinion on this and then assume that is the opinion of everyone from that country/culture. This, so much. Not just culture, either. I get sick of being told what women think - which is usually NOT what I think. 6 hours ago, Aoife said: I think there are some things that are blatantly obvious, and flagrantly offensive - usually cynically money-motivated. Its when things start to get a bit a less obvious that I struggle. Stuff like - who speaks for a community/culture? By whose authority... in whose name? On occasion its not been acknowledged leaders but people with self-aggrandising issues... while 'the community' seethes. This too. As to Lionel Shriver - "art" is a whole separate issue, and I suspect each case has to be judged on its merits. Even if I wrote a novel about my time in a psych hospital no-one could say it represented the views or experiences of "psychiatric patients" as a whole. I wouldn't even say it did myself ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrinka Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Raggydoll said: I know Benebell Wen has said that her white colleagues are better at demanding diversity in tarot decks than she is, and she has also spoken about how people often want permission from a person from the culture that they are interested in - like if a single person can represent their entire culture and say that "yes, it is fine for you to sell your homemade dream catchers". And you often see that notion in books on shamanism etc. The author, who tends to be white, has a friend (or a second cousin) that is a native shaman or a native american or.. etc and this person might even have co-written the book with them to some extent that is not specified. And then this person is the seal of approval that their method is authentic and OK. Yes. You're not going to get a full consensus from any group. There's always an outlier to be found who will give you permission to do things that are generally considered offensive. Besides which, the "shaman" the author got "permission" from could be a plastic shaman Or they could never have existed at all, like Castaneda's Don Juan Matus. 7 hours ago, Raggydoll said: And I do get that it might seem odd when someone like me speaks up and tries to start a discussion around diversity and cultural appropriation. Because do we really need the voice of another white person? Well, someone wise once said to me that every single person has a platform. And we should use that platform to the best of our abilities in order to serve the greater good. Yes. This. It's right and good to be offended on behalf of others. We should always call out those who spout hate, prejudice, genocide and exploitation. (NOT play "Great White Savior" - that's offensive too, since it implies that the group being attacked is too weak or ignorant to defend themselves.) But we need to be allies. For our own sakes as much as anyone else's: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." — Martin Niemöller 6 hours ago, Raggydoll said: My own thoughts on that question is this - we are all members of the same race; the human race. Yes, there are some topics that are incredibly difficult and that some of us can never relate to. But almost all readings that I have ever done have been around the core fundamental experiences of human existence. I feel that it is important to not segregate people further in our efforts to right the previous wrongs. Yes. While race and culture are important parts of who people are, they're still constructs. 6 hours ago, Aoife said: I take the view that I don't have to have shared the experience of the person I'm reading for, but I do have to be able to relate to it. But what if empathy isn't enough? People generally get readings on things like love, money and health - the universal stuff. Someone may look different than you and they may have been raised with different traditions, but they're not from Neptune. 😉 6 hours ago, Marigold said: I'm all for mixed marriages as I'm sure everyone on this forum is. (I grew up in a country where the literal ones were strictly forbidden - you could go to jail if you had sex with someone of the opposite "race" - god I hate that word. Those were dark dark dark times and sometimes there was no light at all.) "Opposite" race? I know you mean well, but that's an odd word to use. You might want to think about it. Just sayin'. 6 hours ago, ilweran said: Starting a general conversation is a bit different to being offended on behalf of someone else. There was an event I attended for work once and a member of staff from another organisation made a fuss and got a performance changed in case it offended a trans woman present. She was more offended by his intervention. LOL, I get that. When I was a kid, they were making us do the high jump in PE. They'd set a bar chest high and we were supposed to run at it and jump over it. I failed miserably, knocked the bar down and landed on my @$$. Of course the kids laughed, but the teacher yelled at them and that made it worse. Kids always laugh at each other and the moment passes, but that teacher made me feel like a spaz. 1 hour ago, gregory said: This, so much. Not just culture, either. I get sick of being told what women think - which is usually NOT what I think. YES. And BTW, you bring up an important facet of all this by mentioning women. Anyone who is female has had a taste of what gets done to POC. A white woman's experience is generally not as bad, but it's still rough for us. Some folks would like to drag us into a Handmaid's Tale scenario. A lot of our legislators hate women, so we get "laws" like this: https://www.vox.com/2019/9/11/20859034/ectopic-pregnancy-abortion-federalist-intrauterine-ohio-surgery. Here in the US, we have actual rapists holding public office and on the Supreme Court. This guy is saying what our legislators are thinking:https://newsd.in/filmmaker-daniel-shravan-says-women-should-carry-condoms-and-cooperate-with-rapists-netizens-hit-back/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoife Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, katrinka said: When I was a kid, they were making us do the high jump in PE. They'd set a bar chest high and we were supposed to run at it and jump over it. I failed miserably, knocked the bar down and landed on my @$$. Of course the kids laughed, but the teacher yelled at them and that made it worse. Kids always laugh at each other and the moment passes, but that teacher made me feel like a spaz. A case in point, katrinka - you've clearly given these matters much consideration but like all of us can wander unwittingly into the minefield. "Spaz"... aka 'spastic'... term of abuse for someone with cerebral palsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, katrinka said: "Opposite" race? I know you mean well, but that's an odd word to use. You might want to think about it. Just sayin'. Oh definitely. I think I was using the word in context. In South Africa, at school in the apartheid days (I swear this is true) we were taught that the "opposite race" is inferior to the other. Yes at school. They even justified it with Biblical quotes. 'Twas the Word of God they told us. You can't imagine how many times I ended up in the principle's office and received detentions because I'd tell the teachers they were dumb racist pigs (I called one of my French teachers a racist bitch once.) They'd phone my mother in the beginning to tell her to come and discuss my behaviour but she always told them that she'd never call me out for speaking for justice and equality. So they stopped phoning her. I think she was quite proud of me actually. But scared - she was glad when I decided to leave and not throw bombs into police stations which was my plan at the time. She had visions of me lying dead in a police cell one day. Edited December 11, 2019 by Marigold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilweran Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 48 minutes ago, Aoife said: A case in point, katrinka - you've clearly given these matters much consideration but like all of us can wander unwittingly into the minefield. "Spaz"... aka 'spastic'... term of abuse for someone with cerebral palsy. I'm in the UK and it's very offensive here, but apparently it isn't in the US. Not sure where Katrinka is from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggydoll Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 1 minute ago, ilweran said: I'm in the UK and it's very offensive here, but apparently it isn't in the US. Not sure where Katrinka is from. She’s from the states 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrinka Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, Aoife said: 48 minutes ago, katrinka said: A case in point, katrinka - you've clearly given these matters much consideration but like all of us can wander unwittingly into the minefield. "Spaz"... aka 'spastic'... term of abuse for someone with cerebral palsy Yikes! Thanks, 33 minutes ago, Marigold said: Oh definitely. I think I was using the word in context. In South Africa, at school in the apartheid days (I swear this is true) we were taught that the "opposite race" is inferior to the other. Yes at school. I believe you. Some of our teachers used to inject their crackpot ideas into the day's lessons. Not quite THAT bad, but too close for comfort. 2 minutes ago, ilweran said: I'm in the UK and it's very offensive here, but apparently it isn't in the US. Not sure where Katrinka is from. The US. I've never heard it used to refer to people with cerebral palsy, but I just checked and apparently it does carry that meaning. Thanks, @Raggydoll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ilweran said: I'm in the UK and it's very offensive here, but apparently it isn't in the US. Not sure where Katrinka is from. Ah... this is off topic. But I often notice that there are very different sensibilities depending on whether one is more of British origin or American origin. We speak the same language, but the words don't often have the same signfication and import. It's something we should all keep in mind when we're on internet forums. The culture is very different too. The first time I visited the States, I was amazed. I said "they look like me, speak like me, read the same books as me, watch the same movies as me..... but what planet do these people come from? Not the same as the one I'm used to." I swear - I felt I was on a different planet or even galaxy. Edited December 11, 2019 by Marigold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilweran Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) @katrinka I've had the spaz thing come up before when talking with people from the US online, it's led to some interesting conversations, but since then I've been aware the connotations were different in the US. Edited December 12, 2019 by ilweran Stupid autocorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katrinka Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 Yes, and I should have been more aware. Disabled people are also marginalized in a lot ways. I need to pay more attention to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggydoll Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 6 hours ago, katrinka said: Yes, and I should have been more aware. Disabled people are also marginalized in a lot ways. I need to pay more attention to that. In Sweden many kids used to offend each other by saying “You are so CP” as a way of calling the other person stupid and different. I believe that has stopped now, after teachers (and I’m sure also parents) made an effort to educate them. I have a sister with a mild CP injury (alongside autism) so.. yeah. They used to also say “Mongo” or “Mongis” in the same context (referring to the outdated and now politically incorrect description of Mongoloid for Downs Syndrome). Yes this is off topic but I’m still thankful it got mentioned. Physical and mental disabilities are two important topics that are close to my heart. I have it in my family - my sister but also my son (who has autism). And I was myself born with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (plus I have rheumatism on top of it) so I know a thing or two about disabilities- especially the not so visible kinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Indeed. My grandson, who is trans, was bullied almost to the point of suicide by a delightful (not) transphobe girl in his school. And others joined in with such ease. "Freak"............... I realise bullying isn't the TOPIC of this thread, but it perpetuates misappropriation of all kinds. Some children are actually declaring themselves trans just to be with it - which is terribly insulting to the "genuine" ones. He fell out with his best friend over this. Edited December 12, 2019 by gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xTheHermitx Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 So...devils advocate time: I feel like the whole idea of "being offended" is starting to reach a point of ridiculousness in a way, and also a point where it is watering down or clouding what being offended or offensive would mean when it actually happens. Sort of like a "Crying Wolf" situation(?) I feel like there is a demographic of people who exploit the whole thing for their own gain, which cheapens the idea. There is a faction of people who I feel actively seek out to be offended. It really seems that as this whole triggered culture escalates, we are going to get to a saturation point where every thing can be considered offensive to some one for any reason, and then none of it really matters or is taken seriously. Honestly, anymore, when i hear someone say that they are offended by something, I just blow it off as somebody trying to get their "15 seconds" or as "playing the PC card." I REALLY think this is egged on by social media, and that is another plague all of it's own I don't know if I am making my point clear, but do people see what I am saying? Or am I crazy. Growing up in the 70's, I ran a gamut of "insultable" traits and affiliations - I was fat, nerdy, a metalhead, not into American sports, played D&D, had long hair. I got crap all of the time, but I never, ever, thought to whine or complain about it. I don't know if it was the way my parents taught me to be independent and strong? mom was a hippie. Dad was a Marine, so I got many sides of discipline. I know I was hardwired to never really care about needing others acceptance of what I did...I was fine to be by myself. I still am. But it never, ever crossed my mind to cry about it when it hurt to people other than my family. I would "narc" on kids who did unlawful things...like stealing my stuff, or physical violence...but I was a big dude. Most people never crossed to the physical level cause they would get crushed... BUT, I have never been in a fight in my life. I have defended my self from muggings/robberies though. I know I experienced a ton of what would now be considered emotional abuse, but man, it was just what happens. I feel like if I ran crying for attention, and then got coddled every time something like that happened, I would not have been able to build up that emotional toughness.... anywho, I am just throwing this out for thought. What I DO see, being a middle/high school teacher, is that underneath this whole PC blanket that is being thrown over the First World to "protect people's emotional well being", kids are exactly the same as they were when I was young. I think there is a better way to deal with sensitivity training that doesn't involve all of the triggered overreaction sometimes. Nobody likes a mean person, but really, nobody likes a whiny-butt either....I think (?) No right or wrong answer for sure, but definitely right or wrong pathways to take... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggydoll Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, xTheHermitx said: So...devils advocate time: I feel like the whole idea of "being offended" is starting to reach a point of ridiculousness in a way, and also a point where it is watering down or clouding what being offended or offensive would mean when it actually happens. Sort of like a "Crying Wolf" situation(?) I feel like there is a demographic of people who exploit the whole thing for their own gain, which cheapens the idea. There is a faction of people who I feel actively seek out to be offended. It really seems that as this whole triggered culture escalates, we are going to get to a saturation point where every thing can be considered offensive to some one for any reason, and then none of it really matters or is taken seriously. Honestly, anymore, when i hear someone say that they are offended by something, I just blow it off as somebody trying to get their "15 seconds" or as "playing the PC card." I REALLY think this is egged on by social media, and that is another plague all of it's own I don't know if I am making my point clear, but do people see what I am saying? Or am I crazy. Growing up in the 70's, I ran a gamut of "insultable" traits and affiliations - I was fat, nerdy, a metalhead, not into American sports, played D&D, had long hair. I got crap all of the time, but I never, ever, thought to whine or complain about it. I don't know if it was the way my parents taught me to be independent and strong? mom was a hippie. Dad was a Marine, so I got many sides of discipline. I know I was hardwired to never really care about needing others acceptance of what I did...I was fine to be by myself. I still am. But it never, ever crossed my mind to cry about it when it hurt to people other than my family. I would "narc" on kids who did unlawful things...like stealing my stuff, or physical violence...but I was a big dude. Most people never crossed to the physical level cause they would get crushed... BUT, I have never been in a fight in my life. I have defended my self from muggings/robberies though. I know I experienced a ton of what would now be considered emotional abuse, but man, it was just what happens. I feel like if I ran crying for attention, and then got coddled every time something like that happened, I would not have been able to build up that emotional toughness.... anywho, I am just throwing this out for thought. What I DO see, being a middle/high school teacher, is that underneath this whole PC blanket that is being thrown over the First World to "protect people's emotional well being", kids are exactly the same as they were when I was young. I think there is a better way to deal with sensitivity training that doesn't involve all of the triggered overreaction sometimes. Nobody likes a mean person, but really, nobody likes a whiny-butt either....I think (?) No right or wrong answer for sure, but definitely right or wrong pathways to take... I appreciate the sentiment. This thread is however not intended as a debate. Like the title says - the intent is to provide a place to share resources and information for those of us that feel that cultural appropriation is a problem and who want to avoid contributing to it. If you want to debate whether the topic of cultural appropriation has been blown out of proportion then you can certainly do so. Just have it in a separate thread 🙂 Im sure there’s plenty of people who would chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoife Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I haven't read with the Haindl Tarot for a long while, just checked and I see there's the attribution of Hindu deities to wands court cards, cups to Celtic myth, and stones to First Nation American peoples. The accompanying text, written by Rachel Pollack is very respectful and seemingly sensitive but I dunno... I don't feel comfortable using it now. There's that sense of 'using'... appropriation of cultures that seems 'off'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashwsh Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) So I don't know what the issue here is, My husband is a Punjabi (those hailing from Punjab City In India or from parts of Punjab that now belong to Pakistan) and he is a Hindu who believes in going to the temple and a gurudwara (A place for worship for Sikh). While I have been quite open to going to temples, church and Dargah (A shrine), there is something about Gurudwara that stops me from going in it. I am not sure what it is and I have thought about it for a while but I usually join my husband on a visit to a Gurudwara. Something in my mind just says this is not for you. I have tried to think of a right reason for what makes me uncomfortable about the space, but I just fail to arrive at one. Edited December 12, 2019 by ashwsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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