Counterfeit Decks

[Trogon]

If I'd wait to be gifted a deck, I would never ever get one, I'm sure. And I would think that stealing one would be pretty terrible... I'm not sure I'd want someone with ethics that allow stealing to be doing readings for potentially vulnerable people.

 

That is a very good point DC. Being willing to steal to acquire a Tarot deck would definitely make me question the rest of a person's ethics. But then, I guess it would be unlikely we would know that a given reader was using a stolen Tarot deck. It seems to me that this would also be the type of person who would defraud a client/mark out of thousands of dollars for fake readings, healings, spells and so forth.

[katrinka]

I never really thought of my first deck as a gift, but I was a kid and it was my dad who was the wage earner, sooo...

Maybe most of us actually were gifted our first decks, in that sense.

[cirom]

 

Altho the decks that I like are very rarely available locally (I think I had to import around 70% of my collection), I have never bought a bogus deck. Maybe that's because they are quite scarce here too lol. But sometimes, the prices of OOP decks are just so annoying that I would often find myself thinking that I'd like to stick it to the sellers. I know, that's quite horrible of me, right? ;)

 

Its often the case that once  one of my self published decks has sold out, i find out that someone is offering them on eBay for far more than my original price. In a twisted way that is a compliment, and audacious, but its also legal, and we are talking about about the occasional copy. But knowingly buying a counterfeit copy that has been produced in quantity, is not "sticking it to these eBay resellers", its sticking it to us the designers, because often they don't even wait for a deck to become OOP. So one has to come to ones own moral conclusion here. But for me it should'nt take that much pondering. If anyone knowingly buys a counterfeit deck the they are as guilty as the the people who produce them. And if as a reader, one places any validity into the spiritual nature of tarot I would conclude that reading with a stolen deck would be a negative.... on the other hand if its just 78 picture that you can get cheaper.... so be it, happy reading I guess.

[gregory]

 

Altho the decks that I like are very rarely available locally (I think I had to import around 70% of my collection), I have never bought a bogus deck. Maybe that's because they are quite scarce here too lol. But sometimes, the prices of OOP decks are just so annoying that I would often find myself thinking that I'd like to stick it to the sellers. I know, that's quite horrible of me, right? ;)

 

It's often the case that once  one of my self published decks has sold out, i find out that someone is offering them on eBay for far more than my original price. In a twisted way that is a compliment, and audacious, but it's also legal, and we are talking about about the occasional copy. But knowingly buying a counterfeit copy that has been produced in quantity, is not "sticking it to these eBay resellers", it's sticking it to us the designers, because often they don't even wait for a deck to become OOP. So one has to come to one's own moral conclusion here. But for me it shouldn't take that much pondering. If anyone knowingly buys a counterfeit deck then they are as guilty as the people who produce them. And if as a reader, one places any validity into the spiritual nature of tarot I would conclude that reading with a stolen deck would be a negative.... on the other hand if it's just 78 picture that you can get cheaper.... so be it, happy reading I guess.

I don't  know about the vibes from reading with what is in effect stolen property - but yes, it sticks it only to the artist. The thieves make money from your colluding with the theft by buying their crap.

 

Whoa, it's Mr. Ciro Marchetti! I so love your Gilded Reverie that I even have the Fin De Siecle because they make such a lovely pair. I also have your Gilded Tarot with the book by Josephine Ellershaw but I haven't opened it yet.

You'd have done better to get the version with the book by Barbara Moore.

 

How lovely to see you, Ciro :)

[EmpyreanKnight]

 

Altho the decks that I like are very rarely available locally (I think I had to import around 70% of my collection), I have never bought a bogus deck. Maybe that's because they are quite scarce here too lol. But sometimes, the prices of OOP decks are just so annoying that I would often find myself thinking that I'd like to stick it to the sellers. I know, that's quite horrible of me, right? ;)

 

Its often the case that once  one of my self published decks has sold out, i find out that someone is offering them on eBay for far more than my original price. In a twisted way that is a compliment, and audacious, but its also legal, and we are talking about about the occasional copy. But knowingly buying a counterfeit copy that has been produced in quantity, is not "sticking it to these eBay resellers", its sticking it to us the designers, because often they don't even wait for a deck to become OOP. So one has to come to ones own moral conclusion here. But for me it should'nt take that much pondering. If anyone knowingly buys a counterfeit deck the they are as guilty as the the people who produce them. And if as a reader, one places any validity into the spiritual nature of tarot I would conclude that reading with a stolen deck would be a negative.... on the other hand if its just 78 picture that you can get cheaper.... so be it, happy reading I guess.

 

Which is not the case in my original post. If the succeeding points you raised is contingent upon this, then they would be irrelevant to the argument.

 

Regarding my original post - that was just an idle question. And yup, until this very moment, I have never knowingly bought a counterfeit deck. Each and every one of them was brand new and sealed. :)

 

Thank you so much for providing a much-needed perspective regarding imitation decks, Baba. And my apologies if I sounded too glib or flippant in my comments. These are people's livelihoods we are talking about, and I would never wish to add to the anguish you experienced by sounding as if I couldn't care less.

 

I don't repeat my apologies because that's demeaning. I can quote them tho, just in case you missed reading it. Let's not flog a dead horse.

[Alta]

Although it has been discussed before, a topic well worth renewing.  I am certain that I have never purchased a counterfeit deck.  The closest that I ever came was the Doré Bible tarot but was warned off in time.  Eventually the original artist reprinted and I got one then.

[katrinka]

 

Altho the decks that I like are very rarely available locally (I think I had to import around 70% of my collection), I have never bought a bogus deck. Maybe that's because they are quite scarce here too lol. But sometimes, the prices of OOP decks are just so annoying that I would often find myself thinking that I'd like to stick it to the sellers. I know, that's quite horrible of me, right? ;)

 

Its often the case that once  one of my self published decks has sold out, i find out that someone is offering them on eBay for far more than my original price. In a twisted way that is a compliment, and audacious, but its also legal, and we are talking about about the occasional copy. But knowingly buying a counterfeit copy that has been produced in quantity, is not "sticking it to these eBay resellers", its sticking it to us the designers, because often they don't even wait for a deck to become OOP. So one has to come to ones own moral conclusion here. But for me it should'nt take that much pondering. If anyone knowingly buys a counterfeit deck the they are as guilty as the the people who produce them. And if as a reader, one places any validity into the spiritual nature of tarot I would conclude that reading with a stolen deck would be a negative.... on the other hand if its just 78 picture that you can get cheaper.... so be it, happy reading I guess.

 

Agreed, but for one thing - in many cases the less spiritual ones' worldview is, the stronger the ethics can be. After all, if you don't think there's some kind of benevolent force(s) or being(s) overseeing everything, you have to DIY to some extent. Life is just easier the less people get over on each other and stick each other in the back.

 

While I don't view card reading as inherently spiritual, I'm not an atheist. But a good many of the atheists I know are the ones out there taking supplies to homeless people. I could name one who is doing it in a city where it's illegal to do that. He's taking that risk because it's the right thing to do, not because it will get him brownie points with Skydaddy.

 

Religion is all too often used as an excuse to justify all manner of horrible things. You need look no further than your newsfeed on facebook.

 

I'm getting a little OT here, so I'll bring it back to counterfeit decks: don't. Just don't. Not because invisible beings don't want you to, but because you're ripping off the artist whose work you like well enough to tempt you to do something like that - what does that make you?

[gregory]

Although it has been discussed before, a topic well worth renewing.  I am certain that I have never purchased a counterfeit deck.  The closest that I ever came was the Doré Bible tarot but was warned off in time.  Eventually the original artist reprinted and I got one then.

I have unknowingly bought a couple. The Triskele Thoth, for one (I was not at all sure about the copyright there, but I am now. Then again I don't THINK Uncle Al lost out.) The other is a de Laurence Waite. Bought when I had no idea about ANY of this.

 

Wait - also I was one who bought up some of the stolen Sheridan Douglas decks from ebay - Alfred Douglas wanted us to buy them so that they didn't get into the hands of people who didn't know about it all.

[SlightlyMagic]

If anyone has reported counterfeit cards to retailers or publishers I would love to hear about your experience. The sheer number on Amazon and eBay is mind boggling and clearly not a concern to them, I'm waiting on some of the larger publishers for their thoughts and how they try and deal with it.  Any info gladly received whilst I try and get to the bottom of how it can be so prevalent and what can be done to reduce it.

[Kristin]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:26 AM, SlightlyMagic said:

If anyone has reported counterfeit cards to retailers or publishers I would love to hear about your experience. The sheer number on Amazon and eBay is mind boggling and clearly not a concern to them, I'm waiting on some of the larger publishers for their thoughts and how they try and deal with it.  Any info gladly received whilst I try and get to the bottom of how it can be so prevalent and what can be done to reduce it.

 

 

I didn't think to go directly to the publishers.

 

I don't report on Ebay because I just don't see them giving a sh*t. I do report on Etsy... ALL THE TIME. I used to sell on Etsy way back when they were new and they had very strict standards on the items you could sell. I feel like Etsy should maintain that reputation and be an honest and fair place for individuals, entrepreneurs, mom-and-pop businesses, etc.

 

Has anything ever come of my reporting? Nada.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Kristin

[AuroraMoone]

I wouldn't buy a counterfeit deck simply because the original creator would not be getting their royalties. Behind every deck is someone who worked very hard to connect and translate symbols from the ether; it's not fair for some con-person to swoop in and take that from them!

[DanielJUK]

It's much harder to not buy counterfeit decks these days, amazon and ebay has so many! I see decks that are hard to import to Europe on Amazon and other sites for such cheap prices and they are fakes 😞 .

 

You can report them on those sites, you can also tell the publisher if you like. Eventually they get removed, to spring up again as new sales.

 

I think pretty much everyone wants to support the artist but it's harder and harder to know it will be genuine on websites selling them.

Buying from official sources like the artist or publisher and buying from amazon and not a 3rd party on amazon are the only ways to be 100% sure it will be genuine.

[Therese]

One thing you could do in regard to not buying counterfeit decks is to find a local shop near you and order from them. This is what I'm doing, but not everyone has an esoteric shop near them. 

Otherwise, like DanielJUK said, I would only buy from Amazon and not a 3rd party on Amazon. 

 

I really don't understand why there are no laws forbidding such a thing? 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Therese

[gregory]

I'm sorry to say that occasionally Amazon themselves end up selling fakes by accident. They will refund and act - but still.

 

And there are LOADS of laws against deck piracy. Look up some of the stuff that Magic Realist Press and Moonchild have gone through, for just one example

 

https://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=165288

 

https://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=221639  - but counterfeiters don't care. I've been one of those threatened with legal action by one of them, for pointing out that they were selling counterfeit decks.

[Eric13]

No matter how rare a deck, how much I had wanted it, no matter the counterfeit quality, good price, I would not ever buy one. I wouldn't even encourage anyone to buy one. Buying them just to have, is what keeps them going. 

[Chariot]

16 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

It's much harder to not buy counterfeit decks these days, amazon and ebay has so many! I see decks that are hard to import to Europe on Amazon and other sites for such cheap prices and they are fakes 😞 .

 

You can report them on those sites, you can also tell the publisher if you like. Eventually they get removed, to spring up again as new sales.

 

I think pretty much everyone wants to support the artist but it's harder and harder to know it will be genuine on websites selling them.

Buying from official sources like the artist or publisher and buying from amazon and not a 3rd party on amazon are the only ways to be 100% sure it will be genuine.

I'm glad you said this.  I was reading through this thread and thinking 'yikes' have I unwittingly bought counterfeit decks?  The answer is probably yes.  I can think of one in particular, the Tarot of the 78 Doors.  I had been looking for it, and finally found it on Amazon ...and thought YIPPEE.  When it arrived, I was so disappointed.  Just printed on matte cardboard, in a very flimsy box.  I can't remember now where it came from, but I do suspect now that it wasn't legit.  

Your tip to only buy directly from the artist or publisher, or ensure that the seller is Amazon and not a re-seller is a good one.  I suspect price is also an issue ...if it seems to be too good to be true, it probably is?  

I also buy from eBay, which is tricky.  Some of the decks I've got from them are sealed, and obviously the original mass produced issue.  Great.  But I also buy 'used' decks.  In fact, I have one coming at the end of this month ...a Robin Wood Tarot.  It wasn't particularly cheap, but cheap enough that I thought yes, I don't mind that it's been used.  Now I really am hoping it isn't a counterfeit.   A while back I also bought a Rider-Waite deck (new) to give to a friend, and it was so bad (horrible printing, garish colours, etc) that I actually threw it away instead.  I suspect it was not legit.

Thanks for opening my eyes to these scams.  If there are any other ways to tell before seeing them—besides price and origin (if given)—it would be good to know what they are.

[Raggydoll]

2 minutes ago, Chariot said:

Thanks for opening my eyes to these scams.  If there are any other ways to tell before seeing them—besides price and origin (if given)—it would be good to know what they are.

Many counterfeit decks do not come with a LWB, so instead they’ll offer a QR code to download a guidebook. That’s a huge giveaway. 

[gregory]

47 minutes ago, Eric13 said:

No matter how rare a deck, how much I had wanted it, no matter the counterfeit quality, good price, I would not ever buy one. I wouldn't even encourage anyone to buy one. Buying them just to have, is what keeps them going. 

 

Easily said. I have been caught in my time - twice (that I know of). Don't play the moral high ground - it can happen to anyone, however careful you are. They weren't even cheap !

[DanielJUK]

37 minutes ago, Chariot said:

I'm glad you said this.  I was reading through this thread and thinking 'yikes' have I unwittingly bought counterfeit decks?  The answer is probably yes.  I can think of one in particular, the Tarot of the 78 Doors.  I had been looking for it, and finally found it on Amazon ...and thought YIPPEE.  When it arrived, I was so disappointed.  Just printed on matte cardboard, in a very flimsy box.  I can't remember now where it came from, but I do suspect now that it wasn't legit.  

Your tip to only buy directly from the artist or publisher, or ensure that the seller is Amazon and not a re-seller is a good one.  I suspect price is also an issue ...if it seems to be too good to be true, it probably is?  

I also buy from eBay, which is tricky.  Some of the decks I've got from them are sealed, and obviously the original mass produced issue.  Great.  But I also buy 'used' decks.  In fact, I have one coming at the end of this month ...a Robin Wood Tarot.  It wasn't particularly cheap, but cheap enough that I thought yes, I don't mind that it's been used.  Now I really am hoping it isn't a counterfeit.   A while back I also bought a Rider-Waite deck (new) to give to a friend, and it was so bad (horrible printing, garish colours, etc) that I actually threw it away instead.  I suspect it was not legit.

Thanks for opening my eyes to these scams.  If there are any other ways to tell before seeing them—besides price and origin (if given)—it would be good to know what they are.

 

The price is a huge clue and also lack of many photos of the cards or deck. If the deck is not rare or brand new, it probably isn't going to be a counterfeit deck. I bought some used 70's decks from Ebay to add to my collection and they were genuine. It becomes more risky if they are rarer or expensive decks. Also if a deck is newly out (like this year) beware of very cheap versions on sites that are not official sources.

 

I think price and the info about LWB and photos of the deck are huge clues! Try and work out what the deck should be in price or an average.

There is a Lenormand Deck I want which is about £40 plus very expensive postage from the American Artists website. If I bought it, I would be stung by customs as well for VAT. I saw it on Amazon UK for £20, that makes no sense, knowing the cost of it and getting it here! It is not sold on Amazon in any country by the artist. There was only a front of box picture and it said LWB by PDF but I know it has a real book! There were 4 different entries for this deck on amazon by the same seller and they have vanished now!

 

But it's possible to make mistakes even with Poirot-like detective skills and clues 🙂

 

32 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Many counterfeit decks do not come with a LWB, so instead they’ll offer a QR code to download a guidebook. That’s a huge giveaway. 

 

Definitely! Some self-published decks don't have LWB's and give you a link. Most mass produced decks will have some sort of LWB (not always but mostly). You can look on other listings if it should come with a LWB. It it does, it almost certainly shouldn't have a pdf version!

[Eric13]

Usually they'll just paste pictures into the listings as well. 

[gregory]

Sellers who have multiple copies of a rare deck are definitely suss.

[Chariot]

Great clues ...thanks @gregory, @Eric13, @Raggydoll and @DanielJUK.  I would never have thought of checking if there is a book or just a PDF.  

[djat1984]

I accidentally purchased 2 counterfeit decks over the Internet once thinking it was a good deal. I was able to notice right away that they were not the real thing just by the look and feel of them.  In any case, tarot decks, just like any other media (books, musics, films, etc.), are works of art and their authors deserve more respect than ripping them off.

Edited October 27, 2022 by djat1984

[Chariot]

I know this is an old-ish thread, but it's worth keeping it going, as this stolen deck issue still bothers me a lot.  

 

It was good to learn that the absence of a Little White Book is a flag, when buying any deck ...used or otherwise.

And here's an entry from Amazon UK today that just screams 'fake' doesn't it?  Multiple card decks (mentioned later in the listing) for sale at a cheap price, and at least one reviewer mentions the lack of any guidebook.  And brand name: OCDSLYGB?  What is that, when it's at home, eh?  Sadly, this deck seems to be dispatched BY Amazon, so the third-party seller isn't even a factor here.

 It's still happening....

 

 

 

[DanielJUK]

It's always worth reporting decks you think are counterfeit on the sites. Etsy, Ebay and Amazon do remove them if you report the items. Some of them let you report it from the item page but others make you contact them and select a related option. They don't seem to do much about them unless reported though 😞 . All the big tarot brands have a contact form on their websites where you can send a link to them and they also will get them taken down.