Bonestone and Earthflesh Tarot

[RavenOfSummer]

3 hours ago, AeonHorus said:

I live here in China and things in certain areas are only just now starting to get back to somewhere near normal. Depending upon where the cards are printed or held in a warehouse it could be another few weeks yet. If they are in or anywhere near Hubei then it will be  much longer. 

As for the virus surviving on packaging, this is a very real threat as it has been able to stay alive outside the body, albeit under laboratory conditions up to 7 days. It has been found on door handles still alive, but not in a multiplying stage 5 days old. 

So it depends on how its shipped, by air has a risk, By boat should be ok but then that will be at least a 60 day lead time. 

 

However if anyone has got one coming just as a precautionary, I would personally spray the outer cellophane packaging before opening with a dettol spray or other disinfectant. and your hands too after for that matter. 

 

🙂 

Thank you for the info @AeonHorus, and please do take care of yourself! ❤️

 

3 hours ago, Bodhiseed said:

From the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website:

 

Q: Am I at risk for COVID-19 from a package or products shipping from China?

A: There is still a lot that is unknown about the newly emerged COVID-19 and how it spreads. Two other coronaviruses have emerged previously to cause severe illness in people (MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV). The virus that causes COVID-19 is more genetically related to SARS-CoV than MERS-CoV, but both are betacoronaviruses with their origins in bats. While we don’t know for sure that this virus will behave the same way as SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, we can use the information gained from both of these earlier coronaviruses to guide us. In general, because of poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, there is likely very low risk of spread from products or packaging that are shipped over a period of days or weeks at ambient temperatures. Coronaviruses are generally thought to be spread most often by respiratory droplets. Currently there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with imported goods and there have not been any cases of COVID-19 in the United States associated with imported goods. 

Thanks for this @Bodhiseed!

 

4 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I know the second shipment of the Oriens Deck was delayed because of the virus and was supposed to start up again after the Chinese New Year holiday, but was again delayed because of the virus. Thankfully the creator does continue to send supporters regular updates.

I'm also awaiting my Oriens deck and had seen the updates from the creator about the delays related to the coronavirus. I know the creator of the Blood Moon Tarot mentioned her printer is experiencing delays as well. I agree with you, I really appreciate those creators that keep their supporters updated!

 

6 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

She also said that she was done commenting on the whole thing and that it was now out of her hands.

HOW is this a thing? How is this acceptable? This really makes me angry. It's like she feels entitled to our support while taking no responsibility for the fact that we ordered a product from her that has yet to be delivered. There must be riots going on in the Facebook group.

6 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

A closed facebook group cannot be the only means of communicating with your customers.  

YES!

 

5 hours ago, gregory said:

We have a RIGHT to regular (FREQUENT even) updates. If she can do them on her personal situation, she can do them for those to whom she owes A LOT of money

Agreed 100%.

 

I think I really need to take a lesson from those of you who have just mentally let this deck go, try to follow the example of @Raggydoll @FindYourSovereignty and @Flaxen. I was so excited about this deck, and I am so disappointed, frustrated and now just plain angry since she seems to be taking the attitude that she doesn't even owe it to her customers to let us know what is happening. I don't understand how she can think this is ok. The last email newsletter was months ago unless I am mistaken- and if I am someone please correct me.

 

Yeah. I need to stop letting this take up any of my mental energy. I'm feeling like I've been taken advantage of at this point, which is an awful feeling, and even worse when I feel powerless to do anything about it.

[Raggydoll]

There has been a really small update, at the very end of this video:

 

 

She basically says that she is waiting to hear back from the fulfillment center (sounds like the costs had to be recalculated for some reason) and then she will "press print". I could have sworn I heard her say that she had pressed print and that we already have a print date (in February, after the 16th)... There was also an update some time ago saying that she wasn't issuing anymore refunds because the funds were locked now that she had pressed print. Not sure what the process of "pressing print" really entails, but it looks like it hasn't been done. So.. There you have it 🙂

 

[AeonHorus]

Has she had a road trip on the proceeds lol

[FindYourSovereignty]

5 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I could have sworn I heard her say that she had pressed print and that we already have a print date (in February, after the 16th)... There was also an update some time ago saying that she wasn't issuing anymore refunds because the funds were locked now that she had pressed print. Not sure what the process of "pressing print" really entails, but it looks like it hasn't been done. So.. There you have it 🙂

 

 

Yes, exactly. 

 

Thank you for sharing the update!

Edited March 3, 2020 by FindYourSovereignty

[gregory]

Things look to be getting worse... If you are on FB, take a look.

[RavenOfSummer]

2 hours ago, gregory said:

Things look to be getting worse... If you are on FB, take a look.

I'm still on a Facebook hiatus so can't check there. However, I noted in the email update of March 10th:

 

"March is the month where it is all happening. You will be hearing from me quite a bit this month. You may even get a little sick of it."

 

We have one more day left in March, and unless I'm missing something we haven't heard anything since that update! Honestly, I wish we were getting updates to the point that I was getting sick of them. It would be a welcome change.

 

I don't blame Avalon or anyone else for the delays that inevitably come with dealing with a global pandemic. Health ALWAYS takes precedence over everything else. However, it never should have dragged on this long to begin with 😔 This all could have been finished before coronavirus was an issue.

[Raggydoll]

5 minutes ago, RavenOfSummer said:

I'm still on a Facebook hiatus so can't check there. However, I noted in the email update of March 10th:

 

"March is the month where it is all happening. You will be hearing from me quite a bit this month. You may even get a little sick of it."

 

We have one more day left in March, and unless I'm missing something we haven't heard anything since that update! Honestly, I wish we were getting updates to the point that I was getting sick of them. It would be a welcome change.

 

I don't blame Avalon or anyone else for the delays that inevitably come with dealing with a global pandemic. Health ALWAYS takes precedence over everything else. However, it never should have dragged on this long to begin with 😔 This all could have been finished before coronavirus was an issue.

Basically, people on facebook are fed up and they wonder what happened to all those promised updates. Also, there is a lot of speculation going on as to what the real issue is with the fulfillment center. Avalon has said that she was waiting for a final quote and there are those that fear that there may not be enough money left for Avalon to pay it. And that she is perhaps stalling things, not wanting to come clean or because she is trying to raise the extra money. I believe that Avalon will likely make another comment soon, she usually does so when there is enough frustration being thrown at her on her facebook page. It would probably have been better for her to give a super short update every single week instead, then the amount of extremely frustrated people would have been kept down.  

[RavenOfSummer]

2 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

Basically, people on facebook are fed up and they wonder what happened to all those promised updates. Also, there is a lot of speculation going on as to what the real issue is with the fulfillment center. Avalon has said that she was waiting for a final quote and there are those that fear that there may not be enough money left for Avalon to pay it. And that she is perhaps stalling things, not wanting to come clean or because she is trying to raise the extra money. I believe that Avalon will likely make another comment soon, she usually does so when there is enough frustration being thrown at her on her facebook page. It would probably have been better for her to give a super short update every single week instead, then the amount of extremely frustrated people would have been kept down.  

Ohhhh wow. Thanks for the info, Raggydoll. So it sounds like a lot of people now believe we actually won't be getting our decks at all, which doesn't surprise me. This has really been a 💩 show. I agree, much better to give regular updates even if progress is slow!

[katrinka]

At this point, had I backed this project, I'd be looking at what legal recourse I might have.
And it's admittedly a bit dicey.

Kickstarter has moved away from the "You're just supporting something you like, don't get your heart set on promised rewards" model to this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/accountability-on-kickstarter

 

But it could be very difficult to collect. It looks like you might actually have to prove intentional fraud, and then it would still be up to you to collect:
https://www.quora.com/How-difficult-it-is-to-sue-a-Kickstarter-creator

(I'm not sure why it's that difficult. If I promised services or goods, collected a sizable amount of money, and didn't deliver, I would EXPECT to be in trouble whether it was intentional fraud, or I just frittered the money away on something else. Wouldn't you?)
 

While she can certainly be banned from Kickstarter, a lawsuit sounds impractical since attorney fees and court costs would be much more than the price of a deck. BUT -

It wouldn't hurt to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, or its equivalent in your country. Or Australia (isn't that where she's located?) I'd certainly be looking into that angle. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/329995

If you don't do anything else, send her this. She needs to be sweating bullets right now. http://valleywag.gawker.com/it-just-got-easier-to-sue-failed-kickstarter-campaigns-1637720027
 

Don't "be nice". She's taken a lot of peoples' money and given them nothing but lies in return. She's damaged the artist's name to at least some extent, by their association with this project. Lord knows artists have it hard enough already.

 

[gregory]

You will not get anything back from kickstarter. See under the Eldtritch Tarot, for one. One LAWYER is taking the guy to court - I don't think it will work out though.

 

But my order with Avalon is on Etsy, not KS. I  might look into that....

Edited March 30, 2020 by gregory

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, gregory said:

You will not get anything back from kickstarter. See under the Eldtritch Tarot, for one. One LAWYER is taking the guy to court - I don't think it will work out though.

Yes, I should have been more clear.
You would be suing/filing complaints on Avalon, not KS.
The KS TOS is set up to safeguard them against liability.

1 hour ago, gregory said:

But my order with Avalon is on Etsy, not KS. I  might look into that....

It would certainly be worth a try.
 

 

[gregory]

Ir's annoying. I'd RATHER have the deck. But I am not convinced it will ever happen, now.

[Raggydoll]

She just went live on Facebook. The down payment is done and everything is ready. The delay is due to quarantine issues with the printer and the distribution center. As soon as they are ready, the decks will print. 

[katrinka]

She says.
Maybe it's true. More likely she saw other deck creators posting that shipping will be delayed due to quarantine/full lockdown in some places, and she saw a means to buy herself yet more time.
I suspect the latter.

[gregory]

3 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

She just went live on Facebook. The down payment is done and everything is ready. The delay is due to quarantine issues with the printer and the distribution center. As soon as they are ready, the decks will print. 

You believe that ?

2 hours ago, katrinka said:

She says.
Maybe it's true. More likely she saw other deck creators posting that shipping will be delayed due to quarantine/full lockdown in some places, and she saw a means to buy herself yet more time.
I suspect the latter.

As do I.

[gregory]

There is something even fishier here (never mind the $100 sweater) - it's the kind of reason I do not trust a word that that woman says - I would go and blast her, but I am NOT doing facebook just for that purpose:

 

She made a video in September 2018. Ana had sent her the limited edition prints/sketches that some people had purchased.

 

 

 

Avalon was meant to distribute them. Not long after came the forest fires and she said she was unable to do it. But she updated saying that she was buying packaging tubes the next week, to send them. That was about a year ago. The newsletter for March 2020 says

 

“The next step for me will be to arrange the packing tubes needed to send the limited edition artist prints. I am attempting to source something suitable to roll the prints in for added protection. “

 

How is it bad luck or China’s fault that she hasn’t been able to send those off in 1,5 YEARS... And surely this must be a real killer if people were made aware of it? Everyone seems to forget about the prints. And absolutely no one but Avalon has had a hand in that. She has procrastinated for well over a year just on something that she already has had in her hands. Not OK.  There is no excuse.

 

So I do not believe ANYTHING Avalon says. Ana Tourian said a while ago that things should be able to be mailed shortly.  BEFORE the virus showed up. I posted her email way up this thread; it was in January.

 

[Raggydoll]

There was another update

 

 

ETA: I cropped the update to remove the name of the person that Avalon was directing her reply to

 

[Flaxen]

I saw that update earlier. There is a term for it - ‘flying monkeys’. It’s when someone sets things up in a way so that their followers go after a person.

It’s very common behaviour on Twitter too and one of the many reasons I don’t do much on social media. 
 

Sad to hear that she has indulged in this behaviour before. Can’t wait for this whole sorry saga to come to an end. 

[Raggydoll]

To be fair, Avalon has now listened to all us who objected and she removed the name of that girl from her post and has told everyone to be kind to one another. 

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

why don't you do the same? 

[Raggydoll]

22 minutes ago, AJ-ish/Sharyn said:

why don't you do the same? 

I now have, thanks! 

[gregory]

1 hour ago, AJ-ish/Sharyn said:

why don't you do the same? 

That would be a lot easier if we hadn't been being treated this way for MANY years.

 

I paid her £70 on etsy two and a half years ago, with a delivery date of early 2018. (You note "the remaining decks will be sold through Etsy... she has taken orders there for almost three years now; I am slightly concerned that she won't even have enough to fulfil all the pre-orders she has already taken outside Kickstarter.)  Because I didn't back it on kickstarter, I have had NO updates at all except via Raggydoll, except when I have messaged her on etsy to ask WTF. When I usually just get "didn't you see my newsletter ?" (which mostly I still don't get, even though I subscribed to it.)

 

I have not (as you will realise) been one of those posting on facebook - but I have EVERY sympathy with those who have. When she then posts videos telling us all that she has no money and has bought a $100 sweater.... it's hard to have much sympathy. Sorry, AJ - I know you are perfectly lovely, but....

 

I have no doubt at all that she will get very limited support for her future work - good though it is - unless she ONLY sells things she has already completed (and I'm not sure I would actually dare to order from her again in any case. There would always be that nagging fear that this will turn out to be another pre-order in disguise.)  And that will be entirely down to her own business practices.

Edited April 5, 2020 by gregory

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

I was talking about raggedydoll removing her screen shot with someone's name on it. She did. 

[gregory]

Fair enough. But Avalon rally has been a pain. I'm sure you would be nicer about it all, but.... I'm WAY past nice.

 

And incidentally - I just took delivery of a deck ordered just a week ago, printed to order in China, no delay at all.

[Raggydoll]