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I have a perspective here. I think sometimes people project onto others something that is a lack of introspection within themselves. The 'other' then behaves in a way you are projecting - or perhaps you have a cognitive bias. You are already suggesting someone is untrustworthy before you have proof. You are invading their right to be considered trustworthy because you are penetrating their privacy by wanting to see if they are trustworthy using the cards. Just a suggestion. I think you might like to introspectively think about that. I think this is a 3rd person reading. What would happen if I were to do a reading about your trustworthiness? I think any reading should also look at you, as you may not have been introspective in this regard. What is untrustworthy about you? Are people safe from judgement in your presence? Are you judging by appearances? Postcode prejudice? I would suggest doing a reading that compares yourself with the person you are questioning. What is it about you that thinks the person is untrustworthy? And in what way? Materially? Psychologically? Heart safety?

There's a great spread I bookmarked years ago from our old forum.... https://www.tarotforum.net/threads/problem-person-spread.37474/ Stregaverde's Pesky Problem Person Spread 1*****4 ***3*** 2*****5 ***6*** ***7*** ***8*** 1. What motivates this person? 2. What lies beneath those motivations? What is hidden or subconscious? 3. What is the current situation with this person? 4. What can I do about this situation? 5. What do I need to be aware of? 6. What other influences can/do affect this situation? 7. Advice 8. Outcome There is also an eleven card version. You can always pick positions that fit your intentions and leave the rest. Some people have ethics issues about looking into another person. There is a line there somewhere. I think you can change the reading to how this new contact will affect you or how will the connection be in your life. Relating it to you as an intention, if you feel you might be prying into their life. A short and simple spread is to ask a question like, "how will [new person} affect my life?" and take 3 cards no positions, or "What do I need to know about trusting this person in my life?" Really it's what cards show up representing them, like @Marina suggested. If you know how to read, you can do the reading (in however you decided to do it) and post it here and we can help you interpret it. There are rules at the top of the area about posting and we don't allow third party readings, so it would have to relate back to you to post here. Also you have to interpret it yourself first and when we can give our opinions and help.

I like this idea. Some of my newer oracles haven't had much use yet and it would be good to have thread where there would be some engagement as I learn to use them 🙃.

Hi Marina. Thank you very much for the detailled input!

@Moon-Hermit, thank you so much for your comprehensive explanation of how the playing card insets work within the Lenormand method! I see they can be super relevant for those who are already fluent in the general Lenormand method, although I imagine that beginners should probably focus first in getting the hang of the card dynamics first, before adding the extra information of the playing cards. I have always found the Lenormand complex because you don’t simply read one card - you read how it relates to all cards around it! Ana Cortez’s method is a bit like that (I have been using it for at least 15 years), but you use a lot less cards and there is the whole elemental interplay, which IMHO makes it easier.

If you know how to read the cards… I believe you can read about pretty much anything. I guess what you want to know is if there is any specific method to use the cards, in order to gauge someone else's trustworthiness. I don't know if such thing exists, but I think you can easily adapt a 3-card spread for that purpose. If I were doing it, I’d probably use a spread with three cards and the following positions: 1. What do I need to be aware of regarding this person? 2. What is this person's actual disposition towards me? 3. An advice on how to proceed with this person, in the short term. This would give me a general idea of where this person is at the moment, at least in relation to me. I don't think you should trust anyone automatically just because the tarot says so, but depending on the card's advice, you can choose whether to lower your guard a bit and see how it goes, or to observe for a longer time before making any decisions regarding that individual. NOW… another important thing is to ponder which cards, for you, point towards trustworthiness and which ones do not. Some cards are kinda in-your-face about it (say, the 7 of Swords, of The Devil), but others can be more ambiguous. This could become an interesting discussion here in the forum! Like I said, I don’t have any specific method for this question, but I hope I have given you some food for thought!

Hi all. A couple of years ago a tarot lady determined the trustworthiness of a new contact for me using the tarot cards. And she was absolutely right. Just now, I could use her advice again, but I don't know what kind of spread / technique she used and I don't remember her contact details. So, I am asking here: Do you know how to determine whether a person is trustworthy using the cards?

I learnt 2-3 playing card systems in my youth, and I keep them apart by using three separate decks in slightly different art styles. @Raggydoll has suggested that 18th century and 19th century Baltic-derived cartomancy systems and French-derived cartomancy systems coexisted in Sweden in the past – or something along those lines – and that would be one possible explanation for the diverse systems I encountered in my youth. I had a random encounter with a mid-20th century US cartomancy system focused on self-help at our local public library, which has a different cultural flavour. Later, I had a brush with an English method from the 1860s, but it is too culturally dependent on a reader and her client being housebound female relatives of men in the British armed forces or the colonial administration of the British Empire (or their housemaids) to be useful for a Swedish man in the 21st century. It's Jane Austen and East India Company all over it, and would need much editing to be comprehensible today. I didn't peek into Lenormand until I became a user here, and I keep Lenormand apart by reminding myself that it's about bells, acorns, leaves and German-Austrian hearts, not about the French suits as I know them.

@JoyousGirl, if you decide to revive it there are no set rules except forum-wide rules, so you can pick when and how often to have it and what the sign up post looks like. All existing exchange circles include what the circle is for, the dates for sign up, reading, and feedback deadlines, and any rules you want to add to keep it running smoothly. You can edit those rules later too. @Marina, I misunderstood. Yeah, Daniel and Joy will know where exercises that allow both card and non-card divination together should go. 🙂

You’re right. The main images do trump the insets; you could consider them “lower hierarchy”, because you’re looking mainly at the images when doing a reading rather than the insets. But they aren’t separate parts. The Eight of Spades is there, for instance, because in the Lenormand deck it means what the Garden is: a literal garden (Spades are called Leaves in the german suit), a public place, outside, society, etc. Numerological-ly speaking, if you take number 8 as a group (which then extends to meanings like thoughts, ideas, balance, etc.) and put it next to Leaves, it’ll make sense: it’s a group you actually like being with; Andy explains this suit in his book as referring to people your age and of one’s social standing, plus love life (unlike English cartomancy where romance is attributed to Hearts; the Heart suit in Lenormand is more like domesticity and non-romantic feelings- you can see that with the King and Queen of Hearts on the cards of House and Storks, respectively, meaning domestic matters and changes relating to those matters). Normally in English cartomancy 8 Spades would be seen as toxicity, negativity, dark thoughts, a funeral, etc. In German cartomancy those meanings would relate to the 8 of Clubs more directly; Mountain (8 C) is something heavy on you, an obstacle/blockade, while Cross (6 C) is grief, etc. So, the insets look inferior at first glance but you’re actually interpreting them when reading a spread, if all of that makes sense 😀. Again, Lenormand is one variation of a playing-card based deck with illustrations, because the insets were interpreted as what those illustrations suggested or purely because the images derived from fables and moral stories that everyone could relate to back then. I’ve tried applying non-German meanings to the insets using a number of different systems, and there were examples where they worked. But it’s not standard practice. You have to know the tradition to fully grasp the cards, but then if you’re an open minded person you can experiment after that. (As long as you don’t change what Lenormand is altogether. I now use nothing but the German meanings). Personally, I prefer the ones that include the insets. You can actually do quite a lot of things with them; for example: 1- Determining Gender: I learned this from Rana George’s book. In my own practice, if I’m required to know a baby’s gender, I focus on the Child card and either a) shuffle and then search for the card through the deck to see which cards flank it on either side and if there are any court insets on them, or if a gender can be determined from the meanings of the cards (for example Tower is male because of the phallic shape, Moon is female because of popular association, etc.) This method I rarely use; b) I just pull the child card out of the deck, focus on it, and pull one card until I get one with a court inset. The first one that comes through would be the baby’s gender. Rana categorizes the Jacks as male, Queens as female, and Kings as male, but because I’d like to have an even chance of getting either gender, I only use the kings and queens. Jacks can be either male or female in my opinion. This can work also for finding out an anonymous person’s gender: for example, you’re thinking of searching for a roommate and wonder if they’ll be the same gender as yourself or not; or the gender of the next president, I don’t know lol. Silly examples, but you know what I mean. 2- Extra significators!= Another benefit of having court insets is that they enable you to identify people in your spreads, other than the preset Man and Woman cards. For example, the Queen of Spades is a young, beautiful and pleasant woman (so unlike her English equivalent!), and the King of Spades is an older man, a patron, or in some cases a lover, the Child card can sometimes stand as a rival in love, etc. Another use for them that I picked up on my own is that when I’m doing a smaller reading, say, a 3*3 box spread and the seeker’s significator doesn’t show up among the cards, I choose a court significator based on their coloring (hair, skin, eye color) and find the cards flanking it on either side. Then I read their general position but with influence “outside of the spread”, meaning that they don’t have direct power in this situation. If I decide to do this, I only see the chosen card as the one representing the significator and ignore the meaning (for instance if somebody is represented by the King of Clubs, aka the Clouds, you don’t panic. It’s just the person being read). Of course you can do the same with the Gentleman and Lady cards, and assign the insets to people other than the querent and THEIR influence on the situation from an indirect stance. 3- Multiples= more useful in larger spreads where you need to define a theme. 4- Determining the general mood of the spread (usually smaller ones) using the suits= More clubs are bad; Spades and Hearts are good, but you wouldn’t want to see the Diamonds with the Clubs as that would mean recklessness. Caitlin Matthews teaches this in detail in her book. 5- Timing= You can use the insets to determine seasons, the approximate week in which something may happen, etc. I learned this one from Andy. 6- Answering yes/no questions= Some people consider the pips when answering those. 7- The Master Method= Used instead of the usual meanings of the houses, for those readers that choose to use houses in their readings. Each house signifies a main theme; you focus on one according to your question and note the inset that falls there, not the actual card. Then you check in a book (like Foli’s or Jonathan Dee’s on playing cards) and read what that inset means in that house, and derive an answer from it. You can read multiple houses, and string whatever they mean together to arrive at a synthesis. That said, I rarely see people actually using this method with Lenormand. It tends to exhaust the reading. 8- To derive a geomancy figure= ❗️Not standard practice. Since I had studied the Playing Card Oracles by Ana Cortez too, I experimented with the technique and tried incorporating it into my 3*3 box spreads most of the time. This is done by stacking the four corner cards atop each other in the order you prefer (just make sure to stick to it) and derive a figure from those cards by doing the usual calculations. This will give you three figures to look at, one derived from number, the other from the color of the dominating card (the one on top of the stack), and the last from the combination of these two. You’ll read the three as advice, conclusion, clarification, or whatever you decide on beforehand. They match the theme of the reading and show you nuances. Nowadays I use it mostly for those questions that really require more complicated answers; otherwise geomancy is something I cast separately and read on its own. And the list goes on. I’m sure people can get creative. My point is that it’s better to have the insets there rather than exclude them altogether, but of course you won’t be using them in everyday, practical readings. Hope that could help.

In terms of cartomancy (with playing cards), I believe in picking one method and sticking to it. I use the Playing Card Oracles and only that. I don't mix it with, say, Hedgewytchery or Personal Prophesy, which are the two other methods I studied a bit more before choosing my favourite. Lenormand is a bit more tricky, but I always had the impression the actual image of the cards kind of trumps the insets? It's not that the inset playing cards have no importance, but they are 'lower hierarchy' compared to the main image/meaning of the cards. Or am I wrong here? I never really used Lenormand a lot, and the few times I did I used a deck without the playing cards, precisely to avoid the confusion in my mind. So I defer to those who have more experience with it!

What a journey, @codygoodman1337! Glad you are in a better place now and that you found your way back to this community! Welcome!

Thank you for all the suggestions! The thing is that I would like to invite both card-centred and non-card divination methods, and that’s why I was unsure as where to place the thread. I wanted people to be able to use any oracle they wish, whether ir be playing cards, Lenormand, runes… perhaps even mix more than one type. The idea would be to a reading for a specific time period and return to it to see how your impression on the response changed over the month, or new ways in which you came to understand your oracle… It’s not a test to see if you get things right or not, but a way to learn. I know many of us already do it alone and was thinking that having some company might be inspiring

This sounds similar to the Deck of the Week reading group: "No sign-up deadline and no set requirements for participation. Sign up at any point during each week." You could structure it that way. I don't see why your idea couldn't have its own section like DOTW does, but under the Divination heading.

Personally, I don't bother much with the insets anymore, unless I'm checking for multiples in a box or line, or more rarely, when checking the relationships between the suits if I need more nuance (which is rarely, if ever, needed). OR when I'm trying to understand something about specific people based on the court cards; e.g. Queen of Diamonds is a relative through marriage, King of Clubs is a man you hate dealing with (or just a man with salt and pepper hair), etc. The thing to note here is that Caitlin gives English associations when it comes to the part on numerology in her book, and (if I'm not mistaken) French associations for the multiples. She adapts the suit meanings to the German tradition (where Lenormand cards originated from, and which essentially means that Clubs are viewed negatively instead of the usual Spades), but black=bad, red=good is an English thing, which Caitlin uses too in answering yes/no questions. (For yes/no questions, I pull three cards and look whether they are positive/negative/neutral, and after that read the cards themselves for more detail regarding my question). Andy Boroveshengra, on the other hand, explains the German tradition in his book briefly, and associates specific suits with specific seasons, and later suggests some additional timing techniques using them. Lenormand is essentially a reduced deck of playing cards. So, reading the Ring as contract/bond/marriage/something that loops isn't much different than if you read the inset (Ace of Clubs) as: "a surprise that would be pleasant if with Hearts and Spades, but not so with another Club, a malefic suit." as Andy teaches. A surprise is a dichotomy, you'd either like it or you won't, and so it rhymes with the idea of something looping. A bond- such as a satisfying marriage- would be fulfilling, but it could also become a shackle that pulls one down. It's a brilliant idea to learn the insets- I think anyone learning Lenormand MUST- because they should add to the understanding you already have of the cards and solidify them in your brain; but your practice shouldn't reach a place where you find yourself reading Lenormand and the insets separately. That will often lead to contradictory readings (and hard ones too! Imagine trying to interpret the suits, colors, numerology and whatnot all at once- in other words, doing everything except reading the actual Lenormand). At least, that's what I've come to understand after almost five-six years of using the cards. So, yes. I use Andy's logic (and near-far meanings) AND his multiple associations next to Caitlin's multiple associations. In some places they are contradictory, but since I use them rarely I pay attention to my context when I'm indeed using them. And timing... well, that's a whole other topic entirely, but suffice it to say that Caitlin's timing table method is the most accurate one I've ever used. That's all I had to say. I hope it helps, if you're still interested in Lenormand cards 🙂 I agree. Even though cartomancy systems overlap in more than one place, the methods are best used separately. I do Lenormand readings like what I outlined above, but when I'm really compelled to use the playing cards solely, I use another method.

Now, if those similarities are tied together, universality is revealed: That would be the next similarity: that inside-outside silence feels like the bridge for the respirational phenomenon. Amongst the inter-religious mystic practices there is the cultivation of silence. It is a branch so prominent that I wonder if it wouldn't be more ample to see it as part of the trunk. If we now fill in "Tarot Cards" for temple sites and add a dose of the below: ...then this one is very easily understood: It's like wine. It has to breathe.

@Rose Lalonde Your divination circle was one of my faves, I think I might try to revive it. Let me know what I need to do. Maybe need to wait until next month. And @DanielJUK maybe I should do something about that old thread too. It kind of dwindled away a bit.... I need pressure to perform 😄

Welcome back @Bodhiseed, @Rachelcat, and @Mi-Shell 😀

I forgot to say that we often have suggested exercises for exchanges, to you could turn divination circle into that if you wanted. Or just start from scratch with your own separate thing to make it clear it's not the same.

Hi @JoyousGirl and @Marina. I started the Divination Circle and only had time to host it quarterly. And then I dropped the ball on it. Just wanted too say, it's absolutely fine by me if you want to pick it up and post it. You're welcome to use my sign up copy and guidelines or to write something totally new instead if you decide to go with that. Nothing you decide to do with it would upset me. I'd love to see it as an option here again. 🙂

Brilliant! That’s exactly what I was looking for, @DanielJUK. Thank you!!!

Week 2 with my new Oriens Animal Tarot So far readings are personal , clear and to the point. 🙂

I only saw your thread today @Tanga and loved your ideas ❤️ David Attenborough was born on the 8th of May and I looked up the cards which have astrology correspondences to him. V. The Hierophant this represents Taurus season (also my birth major as his birthday is very close to mine). I see this as him a bit, it fits. He is a teacher of nature and science and an institution and tradition in himself. Taurus is ruled by the planet Venus, so there is also III. The Empress The card for his Decan of birthday is the Six of Pentacles (Second decan of Taurus ruled by the Moon). I can see that as well in him. He gives and receives information that he presents to us. I thought it was interesting how Earthy the cards around his birth are.

I have been trying to understand 7 of Swords in different contexts and this makes sense to me in certain situations. Thanks!

@Marina if you are going to do an exercise on a Moon cycle, you can easily post a collective exercise in this section.... https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/forum/59-lunar-amp-sabbat-group-readings/ That's for Lunar Cycle and Sabbat readings with any form of divination. That makes it easier to find a place for it 😃 You are welcome to post a thread there with ideas and see if people want to be part of it. I am not sure if it would have take up or not. This was @JoyousGirl's past suggestion....